Mormon Hierarchy Have First Online Train Wreck...I Mean News Conference, With Religion Writers Only. What An Embarrassment!!

Back on October 2 of this past week, the desperate, Mormon cult Hierarchy, planned their first "Online News Conference", which I consider to be a massive train wreck, full of lies, outright deceptions, half-truths and double talk, you know, the normal modus operandi for the corrupt, lying Mormon Hierarchy and their payed pawns/PR and spokes people, that they parade in front of the camera to do their dirty work for them, when they get tired of lying and need a little break.

It's hard for me to watch this utter bullshit and believe that they're actually pretending and declaring that it's "the truth" and that they're just deceiving the world the way they are, despite so many of us in "the real world" knowing "the real truth." They actually think that the world is so damn, stupid and it is their arrogance and stupidity, that will eventually be their downfall and already is, in reality.

My guess is that they must be trying to reach out to the clueless and uneducated, since they can't possibly be trying to reach the educated, Internet connected people, can they? Well, I guess that's why they call it arrogance, because they actually think they can fool even the educated people of the world, who correctly believe that Mormonism is for fools and just another cult, a la David Koresh, Jim Jones, etc.

Anyway, I want to give a big shout out and thanks to Truthseeker for posting these videos, so that we can all watch them here in Mormon Truth and then dissect them and tell the everyone out there "the real truth", if they aren't aware of it already.

Intelligent people do occasionally get caught up in Mormonism and many are born into the Mormon cult, like many of us were; so maybe this will help them to realize that truth, reality and facts are more important than emotions and burning bosoms, which is really ALL that Mormonism has, presents and brings to the table. They really don't want anyone to go beyond the eye candy and surface, because once you get past that, you'll soon discover that it's rotten to the core.

This video is nothing but superficial bullshit, by two paid PR people, who couldn't care less about the truth. They are just doing and saying what the Mormon cult Hierarchy pays and tells them to do. It is my opinion that these online press conference and attempts to reach out only to the media, will fail miserably, like every other plan they've tried. I guess this is all part of "Truth Restored", which is their desperate plan to blitz the world through every avaialable type of media.

I wonder how those test markets for Jesus are going? Like Ballard and his thugs said, "if it doesn't work and we have to go back to the Quorum of the 12 and tell them that we have failed...", that they're basically screwed and have no more ideas. Of course they really don't answer to anybody, and are all in it together, since Scott and Ballard are Apostles and of course Richard Hinckley is Gordon's son. What would they do...fire them?!! Give me a break!!
So enjoy and as always, your comments are welcome.

Samuel the Utahnite

"I have no doubt, (based on)what I have studied..that Mormons, including local leaders of our church, were prime movers/participated in the killing."

MP3 File

This is the audio clip of Dallin H. Oaks, from "The Mormons", declaring:

"I have no doubt, on the basis of what I have studied and learned, that Mormons, including local leaders of our church, were prime movers in that terrible episode and participated in the killing."

He then also says:

“I pray that he(The Lord) can find a way to forgive those who took such a terrible action against their fellow beings.”

In reality, the Church has already completely forgiven John D. Lee, the only man ever held accountable, who was executed for the crime, while over 100 other men were never held accountable by Brigham Young or anyone else, due to their “vow of silence”, which would result in death if broken.

In 1961, the Mormon First Presidency reinstated all of John D. Lee's blessings, including his temple blessings, meaning that they, the Mormon Hierarchy and Prophet, have indeed completely forgiven John D. Lee, as if he did nothing at all and his sins are now white as snow.

"For more than a hundred years, the families of John D. Lee have borne the opprobrium of the massacre alone. For that reason, they have welcomed every effort to probe the question; certainly no truth could be worse than the stories to which they were subjected. Now they have special cause to rejoice, for on April 20, 1961, the First Presidency and the Council of Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints met in joint council, and: 'It was the action of the Council after considering all the facts available that authorization be given for the reinstatement to membership and former blessings [temple marriages] to John D. Lee.' Word of this was sent out to members of the family, and on May 8 and 9, the necessary ordinances were performed in the Salt Lake Temple. A complete record is in the files of the Latter-day Saints Genealogical Society." (Mountain Meadows Massacre, p. 223)

It's hard to understand this reinstating of John D. Lee's complete blessings, when Joseph Smith and Mormon doctrine clearly teaches that Murder is unforgivable, let alone MASS MURDER. Gee, I wonder how they explain this?

I beg all TBMS and Mormon Apologists, to enlighten all of us evil ex-Mormons, as to how this can be. Doesn't this contradict your beloved Joseph Smith and his teachings?

Joseph Smith supposedly received the following revelation from Jesus Christ:

SECTION 132

27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.

To further support what was recorded in the D&C, Joseph Smith also clearly taught that murderers cannot have eternal life, cannot be saved, cannot be baptized for the remission of sins and that they will all literally go to hell, which must be outer darkness, since hell is not a Mormon glory.

Joseph Smith said:

“A murderer for instance, one that sheds innocent blood, cannot have forgiveness.” (Teachings Of The Prophet Joseph Smith-Page 339)

I also hope that since, Dallin H. Oaks and the Mormon Hierarchy, have now finally admitted that “Mormons, including local leaders of our church, were prime movers in that terrible episode and participated in the killing”, that this will free up the families of those who were brutally executed that day at Mountain Meadows, to finally be able to file a class action lawsuit against the Mormon church and the current Hierarchy.

This statement by Dallin H. Oaks, admitting fault, also contradicts Hinckley, who said the following on Sept 11, 1999:

"No one can explain what happened in these meadows 142 years ago. We may speculate, but we do not know. We do not understand it. We cannot comprehend it. We can only say that the past is long since gone."

and

"That which we have done here must never be construed as an acknowledgment of the part of the church of any complicity in the occurrences of that fateful day."



It looks like Hinckley, the current Mormon Prophet and Dallin H. Oaks, current Mormon Apostle, need to have a private meeting and discuss the descrpencies that exist their public statements.

Also, based on the other comment by Dallin H. Oaks, which I just posted the other day, clearly stating that, “It's wrong to criticize leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true”, this means that even though he has now admitted that church leaders "were prime movers in that terrible episode and participated in the killing” of around 120 innocent men, women and children; you cannot criticize them for it and in fact, he probably wants you to follow his lead and pray that they will all be forgiven, just like they’ve forgiven John D. Lee.

Samuel the Utahnite

Dallin H. Oaks-Mormon Apostle/Cult Leader, Arrogantly Says: "It's Wrong To Criticize Leaders Of The (Mormon)Church, Even If The Criticism Is True."

MP3 File

Above is both the video and audio clip of Dallin H. Oaks, current Mormon Apostle/cult leader, from the PBS documentary, "The Mormons", declaring unequivocally:

"IT'S WRONG TO CRITICIZE LEADERS OF THE (MORMON)CHURCH, EVEN IF THE CRITICISM IS TRUE."

This statement is truly the epitome of arrogance and unbelievable!! If this doesn't prove that Mormonism is a totalitarian regime/cult, then I don't know what does.

Why would anyone want to be under a literal Mormon dictatorship of normal, everyday men, that are masquerading as Prophets, Seers and Revelators of God; while they are robbing you blind of your money and freedom of thought, expression and opinion. Wake up folks and see the light!!

If this doesn't bother you Mormon true-believers and followers out there, then nothing ever will!!

I mean hell, "even if the criticism is true", you can't say anything? Is he serious?!! That doesn't remind any of you true-believers of a communist country or the Nazis, does it? Isn't that how they ran things?

Gee, and here I thought that the Mormons taught everyone that we fought a war in heaven, so that we could have our free agency here on earth? FREE AGENCY? That doesn't exist in Mormonism and Mr. Oaks just proved it, for all the world to hear. I guess everyone is FREE to OBEY THEM OR ELSE, right?

I will also be doing a follow-up podcast(on my Mormon Truth Uncensored Podcast), regarding this statement alone and what exactly it means in the big scheme of things and how it stands alone in showing the world that Mormonism is absolutely a fraud and a cult, a la Jim Jones, Heaven's Gate, The Moonies, David Koresh's Branch Davidians, etc.

Of course, the Mormon Hierarchy is a bit smarter then those guys were, since they don't want to command everyone to drink the poisoned punch, because then they wouldn't be getting anymore tithing, fast offerings and the other vast array of donations, that they beg and plead for every single day.

If they ordered a mass suicide, where would they get the easy billions that are rolling in, to buy their next malls or re-design downtowns or build luxury resorts or buy cattle ranches and gaming preserves, or to purchase 663 acres(adding to their already 6,000 that they own) in Laie, Hawaii, to build a 550 home housing development, right? What would the corporation of the President or corporation of the Presiding Bishopric do without all those easy billions?

But I just wanted this quote and several other quotes, to be stand alone downloads, so that everyone can download the exact quotes and then pass them around to the world, and their Mormon friends and family, without any additional commentary by me.

I will also be posting many other quotes for everyone to download and have, to hopefully help family and friends that are brainwashed and still stuck in the Mormon cult, to see the light and escape. The audio of this particular quote, will also be posted on my main Mormon Truth blog for everyone to listen to, download and link to.

Remember everyone, that the truth shall truly set you free, from cult leaders like Thomas S. Monson, Dallin H. Oaks, Boyd K. Packer, Gordon B. Hinckley and many others, both current and future, who will punish you for criticizing them, "even if the criticism is true"; because they are infallible and claim that their Mormon God will literally, physically remove them, if they ever try to lead you astray, therefore, they can do no wrong, EVER, and basically consider themselves to be Gods on earth, who answer to NO ONE.

My advice folks....GET OUT NOW!!

Samuel the Utahnite

Chatting With A Mormon Missionary!! Taylor Said: "When Faced With The Two Options, Either Unfaithfulness To God, Or Death, It Is Better To Die."

THE MORMONS DISGRACEFUL AND DESPICABLE "BETTER OFF DEAD" TEACHING IS STILL ALIVE AND WELL FOLKS, JUST ASK A CURRENT MISSIONARY!!

First I wanted to give a shout out to Demon of Kolob, for letting me know about this "chatting with a missionary" option(just click "ask a question" in the upper right hand corner), since it's something I've been wanting to do for a very long time. I'm guessing this is something fairly new and I encourage all of you ex-Mormons out there to take advantage of it.

The busier we keep these clowns, dealing with us anti/ex-Mormons, the less time they have to lie and deceive the honest and sincere people of the world, that don't know they are being bamboozled and deceived at every turn.

I will gladly post transcripts of everybody's experiences, which should be fun. Just drop me an Email if you too have a conversation with the missionaries, that is worth reporting and you want me to post it.

Also, for those that want to speak to a live Mormon missionary, over the phone, you simply call 1-888-537-6600 (in U.S. and Canada only).

At the bottom of the page, it says:

"This feature(the chat or calling them) is not intended for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to contact Church headquarters. Church members should discuss questions or personal matters with their local leaders." (So, I would harass the shit out of them as often as we can.)

Anyway, this is the transcript of the conversation and I'm also doing an audio version of this experience for a new podcast, reading the transcript and adding my comments and thoughts. I'll post the audio both here and on my Mormon Truth Uncensored Podcast, which you can all easily subscribe to and download through iTunes.

Also, once you click to chat with a missionary, a disclaimer pops up to say that the people you are speaking with "don't speak for the church." So, who are they speaking for and who do they represent? Do they have JWs or Catholic Priests doing the chats or what? Give me a break!! What's the point of chatting with them, if you're and investigator and they "don't speak for the Mormon church." In other words, they are completely WORTHLESS!!

Of course, it's just the Mormon Hierarchy's way of covering their ass once again, while using incompetent, clueless, brainwashed, lying missionaries to do their dirty, filthy work of shame.

I mean hell, The Journal of Discourses aren't official(but often quoted in General Conference), Conference talks aren't official scripture anymore, Official Mormon History books aren't even official, Dead Prophets and their teachings are worthless shit now(unless quoted in General Conference of course)...because it's all about the living Prophet, kissing his ass, thanking God for a "Prophet", etc, etc. What a joke and what a damn, pathetic cult!!

To me, this whole chat thing is a sign of their desperation and it's already backfiring big time. I wonder how long before they end it? Was this Danny Boy and the More Good(BULLSHIT) Foundation's idea? Oh, I forgot, he doesn't even work for the church at all and they don't pay him for his apologetic studies either....my bad. Yep, everyone at FARMS works completely free, like a calling to clean shitters or something, right? I mean hey, when the modern day Moses calls.......

Anyway, this was my experience with Taylor, the Mormon missionary, from earlier today. Enjoy everyone!!
==============

Thank you for taking the time to chat with us and for your interest in the Church. Please know that you are welcome to worship with us any time, request a visit from Mormon missionaries, order a Book of Mormon, or continue to browse our Web site to learn more answers to life's greatest questions.

Samuel:

Hey Taylor, are you a missionary?

Taylor:

Thank you for contacting the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. How May I Help You?

Taylor:

Yes, I am.

Samuel:

I'm 32, just moved to Utah from California and all my neighbors are Mormon and they're talking to me a lot about the church, if I want to talk to the missionaries, take the discussions, etc. I have 2 children under the age of 7 and a neighbor gave me a copy of The Miracle Of Forgiveness, that was written by Spencer Kimball, who was a former Mormon Prophet, right? Since then I've been reading the book and doing extensive research and I'm very troubled by what I'm finding.

Samuel:

I'm always hearing how much Mormons love people, teach about families, etc, but according to this awful book, it's true then that the Mormon Church truly believes and teaches that you're literally better off dead than immoral?

Taylor:

Yes, Spencer W. Kimball was a Prophet. What's troubling you?

Samuel:

Kimball says that in the case of a woman being raped, that "it is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle." So, in other words, if a woman is raped and lived, she didn't fight hard enough? She is actually better off dead? Would the 2 Mormon sister missionaries that were brutally raped at gunpoint, (one was actually shot) in South Africa a while back, be "better off dead", because they didn't actually die that day and lived through their horrific rape that lasted for hours.

Samuel:

this hurts me.

Samuel:

I can't imagine wishing that my daughter, wife, sister or friend was dead.

Samuel:

Another former Mormon Prophet, David O. McKay is quoted in this book as having taught:"...Your virtue is worth more than your life. Please young folk, preserve your virtue even if you lose your lives. Do not tamper with sin...do not permit yourselves to be led into temptation...."

Taylor:

I think you might be misunderstanding what was meant by President Kimball.

Samuel:

Is this true? I can't believe this is for real and I find it horrifying!

Samuel:

What am I misunderstanding...it seems pretty clear to me.

Taylor:

We know that victims of rape are innocent.

Samuel:

The other quotes support my interpretation.

Samuel:

He actually says they are innocent "if she has not cooperated" and "contributed to the foul dead." So how does a woman contribute to "being RAPED?"

Samuel:

I'm looking at the book right now and typing exactly what he said.

Samuel:

If they are innocent, how could they make the Rape happen and be better off giving up their lives fighting off the rapist?

Samuel:

It makes no sense at all.

Samuel:

I also found another very disturbing quote that was taught by a former Mormon Apostle, that supports these comments:

Taylor:

Obviously a woman does not contribute to being raped. These prophets are stressing that if there is a way out of a compromise then they should take it.

Taylor:

They are trying to emphasize the importance of chastity that when compromising situtations occur they should expend all their efforts.

Samuel:

Bruce R. McConkie the former Mormon Apostle taught:"Loss of virtue is too great a price to pay even for the preservation of ones life - BETTER DEAD CLEAN, THAN ALIVE UNCLEAN. Many is faithful the Latter-day Saint parent who has sent a son or a daughter on a mission or otherwise out into the world with the direction: 'I would rather have you come back in a pine box with your virtue than return alive without it.'"

Samuel:

Would your parents and family, rather see you come home dead, in a pine box, than immoral? I sure hope not!! That is sick and disturbing in my opinion and I'm just blown away by these teachings and disgusted.

Samuel:

Again, everything I'm quoting to you, says that opposite of what you're saying. You may believe what you are saying, but it's obvious that the Mormon Prophets and Apostles do not believe as you do and believe exactly what I've quoted.

Samuel:

Do you personally believe this? I think these teachings are pure evil and would lead the youth or anyone to depression and suicidal thoughts and even suicide. What do you think?

Taylor:

The point is, being true to God and being True to the faith is more important than willfully giving up. There are situations where a person can do nothing about what is happening and that case God will take care of things.
Samuel:

So, you do agree with Kimball? You would want a loved one in your family to fight the rapist and die, then to play dead, let him rape her and live? Is that what you're saying? I hope it isn't, but you seem sympathetic to this teaching.

Samuel:

This is some awful stuff man, it really is and I think about my young daughter and I can't imagine wishing her dead, EVER.

Samuel:

I don't know how anyone can defend it in the name of God or their church...I really don't. Do you have kids? Do you hope they die if they are attacked or that they do what it takes to live? I just don't get it at all.

Taylor:

***Well I don't think the teachings of the Church would lead anyone to suicide or depression if they follow the teachings. I would never wish either of these things on anyone.***

Samuel:

So a woman that is raped, can actually be committing a sin, if she doesn't fight hard enough and she is literally "better off dead?"

Taylor:

Also I believe these prophets were referring to adultery not rape in this book.

Taylor:

No, not at all. These prophets are just emphasizing the importance of morality. The rapist victim is never at fault.

Samuel:

I disagree...if a young person is raped or has sex and then they read this book and the horrible quotes in it, that would easily lead to depression and possibly suicide, especially in a very impressionable young person. You can't see that?

Taylor:

The church teaches that and ***it has programs to help those who have been raped or suffered any kind of mental or physical suffering.***

Samuel:

Actually, as I said above, Kimball actually says they are innocent "if she has not cooperated" and "contributed to the foul dead." So how does a woman contribute to "being RAPED?"

Samuel:

What kind of programs...."better off dead" programs?

Taylor:

She doesn't contribute.

Samuel:

Well, I guess you disagree with your former Prophet Kimball then, which I'm glad to hear.

Taylor:

***Let me transfer you to someone else. Just a second....*** (I then sat there for about 5 minutes waiting, after saying the comments below, that I didn't want anyone else. It was obvious that they were moving me to the 2nd or 3rd level of contact, since I was blowing the mind of the pathetic level one missionary. I'm pretty sure that they changed missionaries on me at this point.)

Samuel:

why?

Samuel:

I don't want to talk to anyone else?

Taylor:

Okay.

Samuel:

Let me ask you this...my friend tells me that General Conferences are considered scripture and he invited me to watch the last Conference with his family, which I did. Is it true that what they say is considered scripture?

Samuel:

You can't or don't want to answer my questions anymore?

Taylor:

Yes, what the prophets and apostles teach are received by revelation, and are considered God's word for us today. What did you think of what they said?

Samuel:

They said a lot of good things and I learned a lot. I noticed they really stressed tithing and forgiveness. I really loved the talk by one of the apostles about cucumbers and how they become pickles...that seemed very inspired.

Taylor:

I am glad that you enjoyed what you heard. What did you feel as they spoke?

Samuel:

But the reason that I ask if Conference talks are considered scripture, is because, while doing my research of Miracle of forgiveness and the quotes, former Mormon Prophet Heber J. Grant was quoted regarding this "better off dead" teaching and doctrine and I traced the quote to a Mormon General Conference in 1944, from the Tabernacle in Salt Lake City, which would be considered scripture, right?

Samuel:

Well, I'll assume that it is considered scripture and He said: "There is no true Latter-day Saint who would not rather bury a son or a daughter than to have him or her lose his or her virtue-realizing that virtue is of more value than anything else in all the wide world."

Taylor:

***Virture is of more value than anything in the world, including life itself.*** Before you get excited about that let me explain.

Samuel:

okay...you are just confirming everything I've been quoting, you really are.

Taylor:

Let me try and explain it to you, if you don't mind.

Samuel:

yes

Samuel:

Go ahead

Taylor:

We should never willfully compromise our own standards, and when able, to remain true to God and His commandments.

Samuel:

I know you are going to explain it, but why would I want to join a church that teaches me and my children, that they are better off dead than immoral? As I said above, I find this incredibly evil, vile and destructive. I hear the suicide rates are very high in Utah, would this be why? Are people killing themselves, because the Mormon Prophets and Apostles have told them to, even in General Conference talks? Can you help me understand this? Do you believe it yourself?

Taylor:

I am trying to help you. Please listen to what I have to say.

Samuel:

So, in cases were we are faced with death, rape or immorality, we should choose death?

Samuel:

Sorry, I'm just so upset and angry about this

Taylor:

I understand.

Taylor:

Let me give you an example.

Samuel:

okay

Taylor:

When a woman is enticed by someone and submits to him having the opportunity to escape or to decline, then it isn't a true rape situation. It is that situation President Kimball is talking about. When there is a choice, we should always choose to be clean.

Taylor:

Now, most rapes, are not that case.

Taylor:

Women are physically forced.

Taylor:

The trauma itself numbs them to their situation. They have no will in those situations. They are innocent, and are the victims.

Samuel:

Yeah, but he says point blank:

Samuel:

"it is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."

Taylor:

What constitutes a struggle? Only God is the judge of that.

Samuel:

Plus all of the other quotes I've given you, stating that you are better off dead clean, that alive unclean and that any Mormon Parents would rather see their son or daughter dead in a pine box, than immoral. Do you agree with these highly disturbing teachings?

Samuel:

"Many is faithful the Latter-day Saint parent who has sent a son or a daughter on a mission or otherwise out into the world with the direction: 'I would rather have you come back in a pine box with your virtue than return alive without it.'"

Taylor:

Being unclean is referring to wilfully submitting and compromising standards.

Taylor:

It does not refer to those who have attempted in vain. Again, God is the judge of that.

Samuel:

Even your current Prophet Hinckley, in 1969, reiterated this teaching, when he talked to a soldier in Vietnam, and he told Hinckley that his Mother would rather he come home dead than immoral. Hinckley agreed...

Taylor:

You are misunderstanding what is meant by being immoral.

Samuel:

Okay, well, what if you have a kid or a friend or loved one that goes out and has sex with someone, willingly...are they better off dead?

Samuel:

I understand perfectly what is meant by immoral. I'm 32 and a father of 2 and you don't think I know what immoral means? That's fairly insulting, it really is.

Taylor:

Samuel I apologize, I did not mean to offend you.

Samuel:

No problem...I'm just saying that you don't have to be a Mormon or a genius, to know what Immoral means....I think most people in the world understand this...it's not some new term.

Taylor:

The point is, that the standards and commandments and being faithful to God, is more important than life itself. When it is it a clear choice between life, and being faithful to God, it is better to be faithful to God. The reason for this, is we believe in a life after death! This life is not the end.

Taylor:

Those that die being faithful to God, are received by God.

Taylor:

Most of us, however will fortunately never face that situation.

Samuel:

So this life doesn't matter that much, because we'll live on the other side? I'd like for you to tell that to someone that has lost a child or a loved one.

Taylor:

I didn't say that this life was not worth much. I said our faithfulness to God is worth more.

Taylor:

That shows you how important it is to be faithful to God!

Samuel:

I also read in the September 1981 Ensign, in the message from the Prophet:

"You young people, may I directly entreat you to be chaste. Please believe me when I say that chastity is worth more than life itself. This is the doctrine my parents taught me; it is truth. It is better to die chaste than to live unchaste. The salvation of your very souls is concerned in this."

Taylor:

Life is very important!

Samuel:

"Please believe me when I say that chastity is worth more than life itself."

Taylor:

Samuel, being chaste is being faithful to God, in that sense it is more important than life. A woman raped, is not unchaste.

Samuel:

So, the conclusion I'm reaching here, is that you and your Mormon Church and leaders, do indeed believe that people are better off dead or in a pine box, than immoral...this saddens me greatly, being a Christian man. I don't know how any church could teach these awful things and it certainly isn't from Christ, that's for sure!!
(The meltdown now begins for Taylor)

Taylor:

Samuel, I think you are missing the point and are taking this way out of context. We seem to be going in circles.

Samuel:

I've given you how many quotes stating this? 5? I mean it's undeniable and not a religion that I want any part of and I will spread this word to others, because it is so wrong and outright evil.

Samuel:

I'm taking it out of context?

Taylor:

Yes

Samuel:

Do I need to re-post each quote and let you respond to each one?

Taylor:

***When faced with the two options, either unfaithfulness to God, or death, it is better to die.*** (BINGO!!)

Taylor:

That is what is meant.

Taylor:

If people are immoral, they can repent!

Taylor:

That is what the miracle of forgiveness is. Christ died and suffered so that those who make mistakes can indeed repent.

Samuel:

So, they are all saying it, you agree with it, but it doesn't mean what they are actually saying...it's something completely different? Who's talking in circles? I'm stating facts, things that I've found and read in Miracle of Forgiveness, an official Mormon book, from a former Prophet.

Samuel:

Yeah, but what if they are dead before they repent, because after reading that they "are better off dead in a pine box than immoral", they kill themselves in shame?

Samuel:

It's hard to believe that anyone would defend these teachings, it really is.
Samuel:

If it's all about Christ and what he did for us, why would they teach something so awful, when they can repent as you say?

Taylor:

Samuel, you are not listening to me.

Taylor:

People can repent in this life.

Samuel:

No, it is you that is not listening or using any common sense or decency.

Taylor:

Anyone who is immoral can repent!

Samuel:

My wife was raped when she was younger and I'm glad that she didn't die fighting off her rapist and now I read that Mormons believe she should be dead and I'm deeply offended as she is, rightfully so. He said what he said and he meant what he meant and it's disgraceful!!

Samuel:

When they speak of being immoral, they are speaking of sex, fornication, adultery, masturbation, etc, etc, and nothing else.

Samuel:

One other thing...why does Kimball teach on page 78, edition 19, that masturbation leads to group masturbation, which leads to homosexuality, which then has a "snowballing" effect and leads to bestiality? Do you believe this too?

Samuel:

I mean seriously, the deeper I dig on the Mormon religion, the uglier it gets and I'm shocked by what I'm finding. How could anyone believe this nonsense and such evil things like this.

Taylor:

Samuel, I am not goin to address this. I have tried to talk with you, but have not made any progress. ***I invite you to read the Book of Mormon(BINGO!!) and pray to God to know if it is true.***

Samuel:

Why won't you address my last question? What does the Book of Mormon have to do with any of this?

Samuel:

Will that answer all my questions that I've asked you? Does the Book of Mormon address the masturbation-group masturbation-homosexuality-bestiality teaching of your Prophet Kimball?

Taylor:

The Book of Mormon is a testament of Jesus Christ and is proof that God called Joseph Smith to be a prophet.

Samuel:

Why would I need to pray about any of this, when it's all so wrong and evil? Common sense tells me it's all false, especially with better off dead teachings.

Samuel:

So, what are you saying, if that's(the BOM) true, then everything else I've talked about today is true too?

Taylor:

Samuel, your interpretation of it might not be, but the what was original taught is.

Samuel:

So everything Kimball said is true...the quotes by McKay, McConkie, Grant, etc? It's all true?

Samuel:

My interpretation?

Taylor:

In their original intent, yes.'

Samuel:

Better off in a pine box dead? Give me another interpretation please...

Taylor:

I have tried to explain it to you, but you do not listen.

Samuel:

Actually, it is you who does not listen or have any common sense at all.

Taylor:

I tried, you refused to listen.

Taylor:

I wish you the best, and hope you have a wonderful day!

Samuel:

It is sad to see someone so blinded or brainwashed, to the point of actually wishing people were dead in a pine box, than immoral by Mormon standards. How can you defend these horrific teachings and feel good about yourself? This religion is a complete disgrace and so are you for defending it and these evil, vile teachings....you should be ashamed of yourself Elder Taylor. These are the fruits of Mormonism and I will spread the word to everyone I can!!
===============

Anyway, I'll just let you guys comment on this. Amazing isn't it, how very few of my questions or the quotes were even addressed and then in the end, it all came down to "I invite you to read the Book of Mormon and pray to God to know if it is true." WTF?!!

The BOM had absolutely NOTHING to do with any of my questions at all. This shows what a pathetic cult they are. After reading other's chats with these missionaries, they all got the same exact response I did, no matter what they were bringing up and that was of course to read and pray about the Book of Mormon.

In other words, NOTHING any of us say even matters if the BOM is true. Joseph Smith can be a child rapist, a murderer, a thief, a pedophile, a fraudulent treasure hunter, an adulterer, a pervert, a polygamist, a liar, a fraud, etc, etc, but it doesn't matter, because if the BOM is true, Joseph Smith was a true Prophet of God and the Mormon cult is the one and only true cult on earth.

So, intelligence, logic, common sense, facts, truth and reality have nothing to do with whether Mormonism is true, as it is STILL and ALWAYS HAS BEEN about that Goddamn burning bosom. What a joke and what an embarrassment for those that buy it and have ZERO ability to get out when they learn the truth and facts.

Nothing has changed since my mission and I wonder how long they can keep this bullshit racket going, since we are now living in the Internet and information age, where there are no more secrets and the truth regarding the fraud of Mormonism is EVERYWHERE and spreading fast, like that big rock, rolling through the earth that Mormons love to compare themselves to all the time.

At some point they, the Mormon cult Hierarchy, are going to have to change their modus operandi, or the Mormon cult will stagnate completely, only keeping those in membership, that have been brainwashed since birth. Considering their extremely poor retention rate now, that's about all they have at the moment anyway and it will only get worse.

In the very near future, I'm going to try to spread the "Mormon Truth" in Argentina even more than I and my friends already have and little by little, these other countries, province by province and town by town, are going to learn the "real truth" about Mormonism and get the hell out.

Keep up the great work all you ex-Mormons out there and let's help free those that are currently in bondage to this damn cult, that are questioning and help all the future converts, that are currently studying or will be studying with the Mormon missionaries not to join.

Thanks everyone for your continued support and all that you do!!

Samuel the Utahnite

David A Bednar Picked A Peck Of Pickled Peep Stones..David A. Bednar's "PARABLE OF THE PICKLE." It's Touching And Guaranteed To Make Your Bosom Burn!!

(***Update***-As most of you know, my journey to the "REAL TRUTH", began after reading an article in the Salt Lake City Weekly(called Whitewash), with the help of fired BYU Professor Darron Smith, that exposed the racism of Mormonism, specifically Brigham Young. Now, thanks to the reference and comment today from Demon of Kolob(Kent), I can refer everyone to yet another great article in The Salt Lake City Weekly, that exposes all the details of the true Mormon "Pickle Conspiracy"...LOL!!

The contents are truly shocking, so I strongly caution everyone!! Thank you Bednar A. Picklehead for finally revealing to the world, the secret but precious and touching "parable of the pickle." I'm sure that countless souls all around the world have been deeply touched(after being dipped in Mormon blessed and consecrated Salt brine of course), with salty tears streaming down their faces. Stealing a line from the article, I think it's safe to say that now everyone has the right and duty, when they meet Bednar in person, to ask the question “Are you glad to see me, or is that a pickle in your pocket?”

From one pickle to another, this classic General Conference moment was truly crunchy and Vlastastic.***)

Well, it was close folks, but after an initial and preliminary count, it looks like pickle is the big winner, by a nose, just edging out cucumber 16-14, in the amount of times David A. Bednar used both words in his latest talk that he called "The Parable Of The Pickle." It appears that Cucumber has asked for a re-count and is pretty pissed off about the whole situation. How old is David A. Bednar anyways...like 5? How old does he think we are, like 2?

This had to be the dumbest, stupidest talk I've ever heard in a General Conference and Bednar thought he was some freaking, clever genius of some sort or even better, Jesus Christ reincarnated in 2007, speaking to all of us in "parables", because we are all too dumb to understand his words straight up. Yes, thank the Mormon God for the "parable of the pickle", or none of us would have had a clue what the guy was even talking about...LOL!! This talk is another instant classic.

I mean come on Bednar, "The Parable Of The Pickle?" Are you shitting me?!! The best part was when he asked at the beginning that the spirit of God be with him and us, as he spoke about "PICKLES and CUCUMBERS?" LOL!!I was actually doing quite well watching all the conference talks and actually staying awake, even with their hypnotic, rehearsed, monotone voices, until Bednar said PICKLE for the 10th time. That was when I passed out from grief and didn't wake up for like 2 hours, as I dreamed all about PICKLES...LOL!! I actually thought Bednar had become one and was an actual PICKLE, thus the inspiration for the above picture.

I mean has it really come down to this; speaking about pickles and cucumbers and comparing what they go through in their spiritual and temporal life, to human beings and what we must go through in the Mormon Church. So basically, all members start out as cucumbers and then are cleansed, soaked in a salty solution and turned into cleansed pickles?

My most famous post regarding Bednar, which ranks very high on Google searches, called him "The Kiss ASS Of The Century", which was even found to be too offensive for the angry Mormon Curtain and a post that was subsequently removed; which led me to ask for all of my posts to be removed since there is far worse all over the place over there and it was hypocritical and just a personal dislike and disdain for me, which I wasn't aware even existed.

I was just simply speaking the truth as I always do, with lots of passion and facts, which some just can't handle. Apparently my blog and Dr. Shades Mormon Discussion board, are about the only places I've found on the entire Internet, where I won't be censored or have my comments deleted. At least I have somewhere to freely express myself.

So now, I will become even more offensive, piss off even more people and officially call Bednar the "dumbass of the century" or the "picklehead of the century" and yes, most likely the future Mormon Prophet, if he can just out live all of the other old farts/frauds. Yeah, I know, many of you will probably be highly offended again, that I would dare speak this way about a "holy Apostle of God", in such a disrespectful way, but hey, it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it, with no apologies.

The Guy is an idiot, arrogant, condescending and acts holier than thou in every speech he gives. He gives every talk, as if he's preparing for his future Prophet-hood, building his legacy and he's a pompous ass, plain and simple.

Did anyone else notice that when he first told everyone that he was going to be talking about how a cucumber becomes a pickle, that people actually laughed their "polite Mormon laughter", because they thought the dumbass was just joking and trying to be funny? Sadly, I guess the joke was on them, as he was deadly serious about talking about cucumbers and pickles and went on to mention the words a combined 30 times...wow, what inspiration!!

I'll end with this bit of inspiration, directly from Satan himself(after I punched his time clock of course), that came to me in a miraculous vision:

David Bednar picked a peck of pickled peep stones; A peck of pickled peep stones David Bednar picked; If David Bednar picked a peck of pickled peep stones,where's the peck of pickled peep stones David Bednar picked?

That is the real question my friends and if anyone of you TBMS out there knows the answer, please let us all know, as we'll be anxiously awaiting...LOL!!

LONG LIVE "THE PARABLE OF THE PICKLE!!"

Samuel the Utahnite

Mormon's Say That Even The Destitute Have To Pay Their Tithing!!

Give us your gold fillings, give us 1 out of every 10 of your geese eggs......because we don't want you to miss out on the wonderful blessings of tithing. God is just waiting to flip that switch that controls the windows of heaven!! He really wants to open them!! What a joke!!

Here are some amazing quotes that have been shared before but I thought I'd share them again for those that haven't seen them. They rob from the poor in order to sustain the rich, namely, themselves in their lavish lifestyles and mansions. They don't need mansions in heaven because they already have them here, paid for by tithe payers of course!! These men have no shame whatsoever!!

These quotes are perfect examples of how these men work and the guilt they put on the members, specifically the poor people that can barely even provide for their Family.

These men should be arrested for their crimes against the poor and humanity in general. Here are some great quotes exposing them for what they are and for their need for greed. Hinckley goes to a very poor country like Panama, or Russia and only wants to talk about tithing. It is disgusting!!

Here were Hinckley's comments in Panama December 18, 2000:

The article on this speech is in the Deseret News archives if you want to read the whole thing.

PANAMA CITY, Panama — The day will come that there will be a temple in Panama, if members here prove worthy, President Gordon B. Hinckley said during a member meeting in Panama City Dec. 18.

"That means that you must live the gospel," President Hinckley told the some 5,000 gathered at a downtown convention center. "You must love and respect one another as husband and wife, and your children as fathers and mothers. It means that you must get along with people and do well in your daily work. It means that you must attend your meetings."

Tithing is an elementary element of gospel living, he said. It is a commandment based on faith. The prophet told the Panamanian people that he and Sister Marjorie Hinckley would soon be meeting with their own bishop for their annual tithing settlement.

"When we have settled with the bishop we'll be able to sleep better because we will know that we have met our obligation to the Lord; we have tried to be honest with Him," President Hinckley said. "Now, the Church doesn't need my money. The Church could get along without my money, but I can't get along without the blessing of the Lord."

The Lord honors those who are honest with Him — He has promised to open the windows of heaven and shower blessings upon the faithful, President Hinckley said.

The prophet told of a Taiwanese man who struggled with tithing after being baptized. The man's financial means were limited and he worried he would not be able to pay rent and buy food for his family if he paid a full tithe. But he followed his wife's earnest persuasions and agreed to pay tithing to their branch president. The next day, the man was unexpectedly given a raise at work.

"When he left the place where he worked, he counted out the money. It was the exact amount of the tithing. He went home and told his wife. They sat down and cried together. And ever since then, he has been faithful in this basic law," President Hinckley said.

President Hinckley spoke of paying his tithing as a young boy. It was only a few cents each year, but he would hand it to the bishop and wait for a receipt that was probably more valuable than his contribution amount.

"But the significant thing is that I had paid my tithing and declared it to be in full," he said. "Out of that habit established when I was a little boy has grown a habit that has gone on throughout my life."

President Hinckley expressed his love for the Panamanian people and admonished them to exercise faith.

"If you will pay your tithing and keep the other commandments, we will find a way to build a temple in Panama. But we can't do it unless you do your part. The temple will cost much, much, much more than you will pay in tithing, but that will come about as a gift of the Church, as a blessing from the Lord, because you have exercised the faith to keep that sacred law."

"Your faith, and my faith, gives us the power within ourselves to do that which God would have us do. The history of the Church is a history of faith," President Hinckley said.

That an everlasting covenant might be established.

Abraham's people were a select, chosen people; a people called by the Lord to walk in His paths and keep His commandments, President Hinckley said.

"And that's who you are. People of covenant, given a role that is renewed in this time, that 'the fullness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the earth before kings and rulers.'"

"I hope there will be a time when I can come back and look into your faces and see a smile on those faces and have you say, 'We have tried and the Lord has blessed us.' "

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/cgi-bin/pages.cgi?panama_city&geographical

Wow, I'll let you guys comment on what you think of those comments. It's just unbelievable!! I'm sure it isn't hard to pay tithing to the Church when they are the one giving you every penny you have. I hope his Bishop wasn't too hard on him!! He pretends to be like one of us? Please!! Hinckley is also being very dishonest about the whole blessings part by sharing that story about receiving "monetary" blessings.

Hinckley himself has said that the blessings that come from tithing may not be of a "monetary" nature, rather a "spiritual" nature. Therefore, not tangible and hard to prove, right?

Now these were President James E Faust's comments during the groundbreaking of the Porto Alegre Brazil Temple:

Again, the article on this speech is also archived on the Deseret News Website.

He emphasized the need for Saints all over the world to begin to sacrifice for temple building. He recalled how, when the Sao Paulo Temple was being built, members in Argentina found ways to donate.

They gave the gold from their dental work to help pay on the temple, said President Faust. He explained that he had purchased some of that gold, for more than the market price, and has shown the gold fillings to various congregations to illustrate the nature of the sacrifice made by these members.

This sacrifice has been the hallmark of the success of members in the Latin American nations, he noted, indicating that the same principle of sacrifice is needed today, where members in one area can reach out to help those in other areas.

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/cgi-bin/pages.cgi?porto_alegre&geographical

What can I say?!! People selling their gold fillings? Has it really come to that? He takes the gold fillings to various congregations to illustrate the nature of the sacrifice made by these members? He is one sick SOB!! I wish he'd show them to me!! Poor people!! Damn Cult!!

Now, in the April 2001 General Conference, Earl C. Tingey, shared an example of just how truly desperate the Church is to get "something" from even the poorest of poor:

I was once teaching the law of tithing to a group of Church leaders in Africa. One brother said, “Elder Tingey, how can I pay tithing when I have no income?” I inquired and determined that he had a large family of seven or eight children and was unemployed. I asked how he fed his family. He said he had a small garden and raised geese. I asked, “What do the geese do?” He replied, “They lay eggs.” I responded, “What if one morning you discovered 10 geese eggs in the nests of your geese?” A light flickered on in his soul. “I could take one egg and give it to my branch president,” he answered. He understood, and he could become a full-tithe payer.

For the full talk:

You see that? The Church is so poor, that they need some poor Family's geese eggs!!

Now, let me share one more example from the Last General Conference, in April 2005 in a talk once again on tithing, with the perfect title of "Tithing—a Commandment Even for the Destitute." It was given by Elder Lynn G. Robbins Of the Seventy. Here are some great quotes:

"Among those who do not sacrifice there are two extremes: one is the rich, gluttonous man who won't and the other is the poor, destitute man who believes he can't. But how can you ask someone who is starving to eat less? Is there a level of poverty so low that sacrifice should not be expected or a family so destitute that paying tithing should cease to be required?

No bishop, no missionary should ever hesitate or lack the faith to teach the law of tithing to the poor. The sentiment of "They can't afford to" needs to be replaced with "They can't afford not to."

One of the first things a bishop must do to help the needy is ask them to pay their tithing. Like the widow, if a destitute family is faced with the decision of paying their tithing or eating, they should pay their tithing. The bishop can help them with their food and other basic needs until they become self-reliant.

In October of 1998 Hurricane Mitch devastated many parts of Central America. President Gordon B. Hinckley was very concerned for the victims of this disaster, many of whom lost everything—food, clothing, and household goods. He visited the Saints in the cities of San Pedro Sula and Tegucigalpa, Honduras; and Managua, Nicaragua. And like the words of the loving prophet Elijah to a starving widow, this modern prophet's message in each city was similar—to sacrifice and be obedient to the law of tithing.

But how can you ask someone so destitute to sacrifice? President Hinckley knew that the food and clothing shipments they received would help them survive the crisis, but his concern and love for them went far beyond that. As important as humanitarian aid is, he knew that the most important assistance comes from God, not from man. The prophet wanted to help them unlock the windows of heaven as promised by the Lord in the book of Malachi (see Malachi 3:10; Mosiah 2:24).

President Hinckley taught them that if they would pay their tithing, they would always have food on their tables, they would always have clothing on their backs, and they would always have a roof over their heads."


MP3 File

For the full talk:

Let's see, what was that again? "If a destitute family is faced with the decision of paying their tithing or eating, they should pay their tithing." Is this guy for real?

I guess we could say this only applies to places in the world where the Church welfare program exists, like the USA and Europe. It didn't exist in South America when I was there!! So basically, in those poor places, they will pay their tithing with no guarantee of nothing, so they starve to death to pay the Mormon Church their tithing!! Unbelievable!!

One more quick quote by Hinckley when he was in Moscow, Russia on September 10, 2002. This is also a real classic!!

Now my dear brothers and sisters, live the gospel. Live the Word of Wisdom. Pay your tithing. You may say, ‘I can’t afford to pay tithing.’ I’d like to say that you cannot afford not to pay tithing. The Lord has made a wonderful promise, found in the Bible in the book of Malachi to those who pay their tithes. Unto those He will open the windows of heaven and pour down blessings that there shall not be room to contain them. Take the Lord at his word. The Church will go on whether you pay your tithing or not. It is sustained in this part of the world by funds that come from the United States for the most part. Your tithing may be ever so small, but you take the Lord at his word and pay your tithes and offerings, and God will bless you.

For the full talk:

So, basically, the USA is supporting the Church there and the Church will go on whether they pay tithing or not, but PAY IT!! GOD WILL BLESS YOU!!

So in conclusion, give your gold fillings, your geese eggs, your food money, your bill money, your rent money, your gas money, your finger nail clippings, hell, just give us everything you have and the Lord will open up those "invisible windows" and pour out those "invisible spiritual blessings" upon you. So what if you end up homeless for not paying your bills and rent!!

If in the meantime you and your entire Family starve to death, God will bless you all on the other side for your incredible sacrifice of giving all your money and ultimately your life to the rich men in Salt Lake. At least you died for the cause, right? You'll die doing what you love, giving your money to the Billion Dollar corporation LDS Inc!!

After all, they have to buy their Billion dollar malls, build their World Trade Center, $300 million luxury resorts, have their limos, luxury cars, 1,000 + suits, 5 star hotels, million dollar + condos, exquisite cuisine and dining.

I mean, come on, these men have a lifestyle to maintain!! So cough it up people, don't make them suffer, after all, they are only doing God's work as poor, lowly and humble servants. Screw your Family and eating, what's more important here?

Just do it!!

Samuel the Utahnite

Mormon BYU-Idaho student pleads for malls to take down "NUDE" photos!!

***UPDATE***The Mormon cult Hierarchy and Kim Clark, has removed this article from the BYU-Idaho Scroll recently, even though they have archives that go back to the 1980's...interesting, isn't it? I guess it went into the Mormon shit can, along with other classics, like John Wilson's "Epidermis exposure is too common", which was even quoted by Susan "Pickle" Bednar, in a 6 stake fireside at BYU-Idaho, on September 16, 2001.

In any case, I saved a copy of this article as I always do, just in case this deletion was to happen, which I figured it might, since it is so damn embarrassing and ridiculous to both Tiffany Ricks, BYU and the Mormon cult.***

First of all, everyone needs to read her comments that were posted in the BYU-Idaho Scroll online.

Down with nude photos

Dear Editor,

I am writing this letter in hopes of reaching some people who will be motivated to take a stand against an issue facing this community.

While I was walking down the hall of the Grand Teton Mall in Idaho Falls, I noticed some pictures that were hanging in the windows of the Bath and Body Works store. They were pretty hard to miss, since hanging very visibly to the hall was an unclothed woman hugging her legs.

These pictures which display indecency and are undignified, are beginning to appear quite openly at the mall in several locations. Now, fellow students of this refined and respectable school, for the most part this community has been a safe and clean community, with low crime and fear. Could this, in part, be because standards of honor, respect and purity have been upheld? Wouldn’t it be a disgrace if this good community became unsafe and dirty?

Please all of you who believe in families, and know they are important; or you who would not want your child, spouse, or sibling (or relative) enslaved to the addiction of having to look at and lust after a person’s naked body constantly; or you who would be heartbroken to see your lovely daughter, wife, mother of your children or a friend or sibling (relative) openly displaying her nude body for all who came to the mall, possibly because she thought her greatest value was found in letting others lust after her body.

I send this plea to you…please take some kind of action! Stand up for everything that is decent, respectful and right, no matter what sacrifice it might take! Please, help those who are still clean and decent to stay that way, and help those that need freedom from their enslaving addiction have one less temptation. Thank you!

Tiffany Ricks-

Senior

Rexburg, Idaho
============

This is truly an amazing article to show just how closed minded "TBM's" are in the Mormon Church when it comes to sex and nudity. I knew it was bad in the Mormon Church but this really opened my eyes to how much worse it is than I thought. This is the way that the Mormon Church teaches and wants their youth and adults to think. She isn't the only one that feels this way. BYU-Idaho used to be Ricks college and I noticed that her last name is Ricks. Not sure if there is any relation but it sure would make sense. Here were some comments that I made back on August 2nd regarding this ridiculous article:

Damn, can you imagine having her as a wife?!! Can you imagine if she ever caught you sneaking a peek at "real" pornography? It would be an immediate divorce, no questions asked!! I think I'd rather do a swan dive into an empty swimming pool. It would be the same thing. Maybe she'll grow out it, we can only hope!!

Maybe she should marry that guy from Bednar's talk that dumped that girl because she wouldn't honor, respect and obey the "pleadings" of a Prophet by taking out her second earrings. Those two would make the perfect "TBM" couple of all time!! Then Bednar, could give a new talk and introduce them to the audience, tell everyone who he was, the famous earring guy and then tell everyone how blessed he was to have dumped that other evil girl. The couple could talk in firesides, Stake conferences, etc. Seems like a plan!!

He could then introduce his new "TBM" wife and tell everyone how much the Lord had blessed him for dumping that other chick with too many earrings.He could tell them that now he was with someone prepared by the Lord that would obey every word of the Prophet Hinckley, without hesitation and with no questions asked, no matter how stupid it was.

If there is anyone out there that doesn't believe that this Church is a cult, it's because they are in it and still programmed. We need to start a center just to help detoxify ex-Mormons brains from all the poison that has been dumped into them.

Samuel the Utahnite