Tuesday, May 08, 2007

Yet Another Mormon Missionary Sadly Dies, This Time In Washington State. Do Mormon Garments Really Protect Anyone As The Mormon Hierarchy Claims?!!




(***I'd like to thank whomever the person is that flagged this video "for mature audiences only." I know the subject matter might be difficult for some people(especially TBMS or Mormon apologists or Mormon leaders in denial) to deal with, but this video came straight off of the local 10 o'clock news here in Utah and should not be labeled "for mature audiences only." I agree that this story is tragic and horrific, but it is a fact that this young man died as a supposed servant of Jesus Christ and was not protected by his Jesus, Jesus' supposed Prophet/Apostles or his garments, which the Mormon Hierarchy promise will protect him. What happened to that spirit of discernment, AGAIN, that they're supposed to have and brag about on a regular basis? This is a story that everyone needs to see, especially future missionaries and their families.***)
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William T. Anguilau Jr. was serving in the Seattle, Washington mission when he was tragically killed last week after being hit while riding his bike. His Stake President wanted to go before the news cameras, to make sure that everyone knows that the family is just fine with everything and that they accepted it as a "simply an extension of his mission on the other side" and that his family "doesn't have any ill will with either the person that hit him or the church."

The last part about the family not being upset with the church, is the most important part of course, for the church and especially their cult leader Gordon B. Hinckley and all the future Mormon missionaries. Bottom line is that everything is just fine, the works going forward, no worries people, IT'S ALL GOOD!!

Remember everyone, that the OFFICIAL position of the Mormon Hierarchy, as taught and stated by the Mormon Apostle M. Russell Ballard(a direct and very proud blood descendant of Joseph Smith) is that it doesn't matter if Mormon missionaries get HURT or KILLED in the future, IT WILL NOT STOP THIS WORK!! The work and the cult will always, ALWAYS trump human life, according to these evil BASTARDS sitting in their ivory tower of shame at 50 East North Temple, in Salt Lake City, Utah.

The Mormon Hierarchy lives the life of Kings, while missionaries suffer tremendous hardship and even give their lives for these ASSHOLES. They fail to teach the missionaries any safety tips and have them so scared to get their numbers and baptize, that they probably do things that they wouldn't normally do and go to places they would never normally go to and they end up making pressured and sometimes irrational decisions that they normally wouldn't make.

They are forced to ride bikes in cities crowded with cars and on busy roads, where bikes have no business even being. Does the Mormon Hierarchy spend time teaching auto safety in the MTC or what to do if they come across a robbery or murderer, or someone with a gun? Of course they don't, because they don't give a shit about any of them.

Was William T. Anguilau Jr. or any other missionary given a special course in the MTC on bike safety? I doubt it, as they were too busy teaching the missionaries all of their bold faced lies and fairy tales and how to manipulate people into their cult corporation and also, because nobody in the great and spacious building gives a rat's ass if missionaries are hurt or killed, as plainly stated by M. Russell Ballard.

Bottom line is that the safety of missionaries doesn't even cross the minds of the Mormon Hierarchy and it never has and never will, fully supported by M. Russell Ballard, the head asshole of the missionary department.

In this video, The Stake President Tracy Branch, says that William now has a "free ticket so to speak and WE'RE GLAD OF THAT....and that he returned with honor." So even though there is no way normally, to spin a tragic death into something wonderful, positive and faith promoting for future Mormon cult missionaries and their families, they've tried to do it once again, especially mentioning his "free ticket" to Paradise. Who wouldn't want a "free ticket", right?

Damn, it kind of sounds like a teaching of some famous cult leaders like Jim Jones, David Koresh or what was taught in the Heaven's Gate cult, doesn't it? Isn't this what organized religion is really all about though? Doesn't everyone want that "free ticket so to speak?"

How repulsive and sad, to hear the pathetic Stake President Tracy Branch spewing the same old typical bullshit, that the Mormon leadership spews after missionaries are tragically killed. It's always a "cover your ass as quickly as possible routine", the second a Mormon missionary is tragically killed, injured, attacked, etc.

I mean after all, this Stake President gets some camera time and if he handles it well enough and defends the Goddamn cult, he might get a promotion in the cult corporation, right? I'm sure he received the congratulatory phone call from Hinckley or one of his cronies, commending him and how well he handled the situation and I'm sure good things now await the heartless scumbag.

I wish the best for William T. Anguilau Jr's family, who is just perfectly fine and have no issue whatsoever with William's death and understand it to simply be an "extension of his mission", according to their loving, caring and understanding Stake President/cult leader Tracy Branch, who would always put the family first and the cult second, right? Apparently not!!

Of course with yet another death of a Mormon missionary, which brings the total to at least 9(that we've heard of-which doesn't include robberies, car jackings, rapes, beatings, etc) in around 16 months time, it brings several issues to mind.

The other day I was reading on RFM and a poster that I highly respect named Cheryl(I think this is the same Cheryl that Steve Benson was allowed(by Susan I/S) to ridicule and openly attack, right after she announced her daughter had just been sent to the hospital) was getting a lot of grief from people that felt no one should ever mention that fact that Mormon garments don't protect missionaries or anyone else. They said that she was mocking the missionaries and making fun of them...WTF?!!

They felt that she was out of line, insensitive and many other colorful adjectives. She couldn't figure out why everyone was so pissed off and attacking her, since she was trying to save future lives and point out the truth, which is that garments protect no one, EVER and never have and that everyone needed to know the "real truth."


So, after reading her comments and those of others, I was pretty pissed off and I decided to respond and this is what I had to say about the subject:

I'm with you and support you Cheryl 100%! Thank you for this post.

The Mormon Hierarchy teaches that Mormon garments will protect you, which is a damn lie.

How many of us ex-Mormons heard the FPRs growing up about Mormon garments? J. Willard Marriott even shared his personal experience and testimony, in the 60 minute interview about his boat catching on fire, and how nothing that was covered by his garments got burned, etc. He flat out stated that garments protect you from harm and he's currently serving as an Area Authority Seventy back in the Virginia area, as a member of the third Quorum of the Seventy.

Did the Mormon Hierarchy issue a correction on their former "mistakes in the media" page, stating that J. Willard Marriott's FPR wasn't true? Of course not, because they want people to believe their cult bullshit and FPRs. Isn't it more offensive to say that he was protected by garments, while many others aren't? What does this say? Does the Mormon God only protect the elite and rich Mormons? Is he just more worthy than the rest of the "regular Mormons?"

Was it that those that died weren't worthy? It's like Benjamin Ellsworth's mission president mentioning, right after he died, that he'd just met with him a day or 2 before and that "he was worthy." Why did he have to point that out? What did that have to do with anything? Apparently then, worthiness has nothing to do with garments protecting you?
Gee, I thought it did?

Even Hinckley says you won’t get sick on your mission and cause the work to “grind to a halt”, if you are “obedient” to all the rules. Wouldn’t this include death? So I guess the opposite is also true, meaning that any missionary that dies, is considered unworthy by the Mormon Hierarchy, right? Now that’s offensive!

So, when missionaries are crushed by trains, like Benjamin Ellsworth was, or burned to death in a car crash, like the two over in New Zealand, or hit by a car and killed or like Morgan Young, who was shot and killed working in an unsafe area full of regular gunfire(as his companion said to a newspaper here in Utah), I think it is our duty, as ex-Mormons that know the truth, to point out that GARMENTS DON'T PROTECT ANYONE and many other things.

In fact, I think it is irresponsible not to point this out and by pointing it out, we can actually help to save lives, like Cheryl pointed out. We can also point out that missionaries are not being led by Jesus Christ or "inspired men of God" and that's why they are working in unsafe areas, towns and countries, every single day. Is that offensive too? What is okay to talk about?

I can't believe that so many ex-Mormons are so afraid or timid to point out the truth and facts, no matter what the situation is. Do we want to help others or not? By pointing out the fact that missionaries dying, is a glaring example of how garments don't protect anyone and is another example of the Mormon Hierarchy lying, and is very necessary and not being cold, mean or mocking in my opinion.

I mean hell, if anyone should be protected, it should be Jesus' personal servants on earth, the missionaries, shouldn't it? Maybe they were masturbating and not worthy of the protection of the garments? It's ridiculous!

Isn't the myth that garments will protect you (which the Mormon Hierarchy teaches and allows to be perpetuated by their General Authorities in national TV interviews), far worse than us ex-Mormons pointing out that they are lying AGAIN and that garments don't protect anyone?

Isn't it the Mormon Hierarchy that is openly mocking the dead missionaries and their families and then using them for PR, like when Ballard says, "In many ways, Elder Young has been transferred" and "that he continues to preach his message in another sphere."

By pointing out that garments are useless and don't protect anyone, we aren't "mocking" the dead missionary, rather just telling it like it is, exposing the Mormon cult and hopefully helping others in the process, to turn on their brain and realize the garment myth is complete bullshit and hopefully we are helping to prevent future deaths, like Cheryl is pointing out. Is this concept too deep for some of you?

Morgan Young's mom said "I'm proud that he died with his boots on." In other words, they are very strong and devout in the church, have 2 more kids getting ready for missions(they are more determined than ever now to go and say that they now have a legacy to fulfill left by Morgan) and nothing would ever affect their testimony. If the death of their son didn't phase them, nothing ever will.

They had their photo op with Hinckley and Ballard, the day of the funeral, who used Morgan's death as a PR stunt and assured everyone that "missions were the safest place for a 19-21 year old to be." Yeah, nice, loving words AT A FUNERAL of a missionary that was just KILLED.....I guess they were just taking the Boyd KKK Packer approach toward funerals?

Why are ex-Mormons pissed about people pointing out that garments didn't protect these missionaries, when it's THE TRUTH? Is that heartless and mocking the dead missionaries? Really? Are you guys serious? I guess there isn't ever a time to talk about it then, is there? I guess we all need to live in fear and utter trepidation of discussing such a touchy subject or offending "the Mormons?” Our attack is clearly on the Mormon Hierarchy, not the missionaries, so figure it out people and get a clue.

I guess it's kind of like how the Mormon Hierarchy call us apostates "evil, "disease germs", "full of darkness", "dangerous", that "they should run from us as fast as they can", "anti-Christs", etc? Yeah, I guess we need to be nice and loving to these folks, right?

Now, if us ex-Mormons want to get pissed about something and re-direct our anger to the proper place, we should all be focused on what the asshole Mormon Apostle Ballard had to say, in January of 2006, right after 5 missionaries had been tragically killed in about a month's time.

Ballard said:

"This work will continue to go forward regardless of what happens, regardless of what the future may hold. If there are other missionaries that are HURT or other missionaries that are KILLED, IT WILL NOT STOP THIS WORK. Joseph Smith made that abundantly clear that there would be nothing that would stop this work from rolling forward till the Great Jehovah comes forward and says the work is done. And He hasn't said that yet."


Now, I don't know about you guys, but I find these words, by a Mormon Apostle, to be far worse and mocking than somebody pointing out that garments don't protect missionaries or anyone else. Where's the outrage and anger by ex-Mormons regarding this statement, by somebody official, high up in the Mormon church hierarchy? Ballard is the Mormon Hierarchy's guru and go to man on missionaries and directly blood related to Joseph Smith for Mormon God's sake! Shouldn’t his words outrage those that are so upset about garments being discussed? What hypocrites!!

Ballard, at that same time, also said this regarding missionaries:

"When you say, What kind of work do we do to see that the missionaries are kept in safe places and that they proselyte in safe places? We do the very, very best we know how, UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF INSPIRED, CALLED, WONDERFUL MISSION PRESIDENTS AND THEIR WIVES."

This is another outrageous lie! "Safe places" my ass! Is that why they send sisters to South Africa, to walk the streets alone, when it is the rape Capital of the world and has one of the highest crime rates in the world? Over a million women are raped there every damn year! Oh, am I being too offensive in pointing out these truths and facts?

The US Government's website warns against all Americans traveling there, specifically to that area where they were attacked and how many of the companies over there are pulling out all of the their workers, especially Americans, due to the dangers and crime and kidnappings? Missionaries(according to those who have been there) get robbed and car jacked there every single month(it is completely unreported to the media and covered up by the Mormon Hierarchy)....does anyone care in the Mormon Hierarchy? Of course they don't. THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT!

Here are some quick stats on South Africa, according to the UN:

#2 in the world for assault and murder.

Average of 170 South African Police officers killed every year.

In 1996, it was reported that they had 50,481 rapes reported, with it being likely that only 1 in 20 were being reported, which comes out to over 1 million rapes a year, as I stated above.

Danny Brock, the mission President, right after these 2 sisters were brutally beaten, robbed and then gang raped for hours at gunpoint and one was shot, said:

"Now, they're getting the best care money can buy. When this is over, THEY PLAN TO REMAIN IN SOUTH AFRICA AND COMPLETE THEIR MISSIONARY WORK."

What heart, what compassion and what a great man! Of course, the cult always comes first, doesn't it, even after being brutally raped for hours and shot? Holy shit! Now this is something to get pissed about folks and fellow ex-Mormons. Oh yeah, did their garments protect them? Of course not and that's a fact and the truth, as painful as it may be for some of you to deal with and understand.

When interviewed, Molly Jolley of Bountiful, Utah, the daughter of the MP Danny Brock, reiterated what the asshole Ballard said:

"Bad things happen everywhere and it's unfortunate. My heart goes out to those poor sisters and their families BUT THE WORK MUST GO ON."

FUCK THE WORK, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HUMAN LIFE HERE MOLLY!


Now, that's something to get pissed about folks, if you are just a normal human being, that puts human life and the well being of others above a damn cult, which Molly obviously doesn't. She is a brainwashed cult member that puts the Goddamn cult above EVERYTHING else, even life itself, as does her daddy Brock, the disgraceful mission president.

Hinckley, regarding missionaries has said:

"No one else in the Church has a farewell when entering a particular service. We never have a special farewell-type meeting for a newly called bishop, for a stake president, for a Relief Society president, for a General Authority, or anyone else of whom I can think. WHY SHOULD WE HAVE MISSIONARY FAREWELLS?"

He then ended with this:

"We know this will be a great disappointment to many families. Mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, and friends have participated in the past. We ask that you accept this decision. Where a farewell has already been arranged, it may go forward. But none in the traditional sense should be planned for the future. We are convinced that when all aspects of the situation are considered, THIS IS A WISE DECISION. Please accept it, my dear brethren. I extend this plea also to the sisters, particularly the mothers.

We hope also that holding elaborate open houses after the sacrament meeting at which the missionary speaks will not prevail. Members of the family may wish to get together. We have no objection to this. However, WE ASK THAT THERE BE NO PUBLIC RECEPTION TO WHICH LARGE NUMBERS ARE INVITED.

Missionary service is such a wonderful experience that it brings with it its own generous reward. And WHEN A MISSIONARY RETURNS TO HIS FAMILY AND HIS WARD, HE MAY AGAIN BE GIVEN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK IN A SACRAMENT MEETING."

Yeah Hinckley, WHAT IF THEY ARE DEAD AND NEVER DO RETURN ALIVE...DID YOU EVER CONSIDER THAT DUMBASS IN YOUR EQUATION AND SUPPOSED PRAYING TO GOD?!

I guess Hinckley also isn't including his "ELABORATE birthday bashes" that he has every 5 years, on the tithe payers money, when he says, "We hope also that holding elaborate open houses after the sacrament meeting at which the missionary speaks will not prevail" and "WE ASK THAT THERE BE NO PUBLIC RECEPTION TO WHICH LARGE NUMBERS ARE INVITED." DAMN HYPOCRITE! This is the bullshit that should piss off ex-Mormons.

I guess Hinckley also wasn't including his own pathetic ass and his public birthday bashes(in the $500 million Gordydome) with Donny Osmond, Mike Wallace, Gladys Knight, the 5 Browns, etc, when he said, "We never have a special farewell-type meeting for a newly called bishop, for a stake president, for a Relief Society president, for a General Authority, or anyone else of whom I can think. Why should we have missionary farewells?"

Oh, he isn't a General Authority? Again, I point all of this out, because this is what should piss us off and outrage us, not whether we(ex-Mormons) are discussing Mormon magic underwear and whether it protected someone that was just killed or not. I find it more offensive NOT TO TALK ABOUT IT.

Why is the truth so hard for some people to talk about? We aren't in the Mormon cult anymore guys and we can freely talk about whatever we want to now...get over the mind control and need to feel so sheepish and afraid of offending someone, when you are simply presenting the facts and truth.

We need to take every opportunity we can to point out the lies and fraud of Mormonism, in the hopes of helping someone. I don't give a damn if I offend 13,000,000 Mormons, or all ex-Mormons, or everyone in RFM, in order to help someone else see the light or not die and I wish that more of us ex-Mormons had this attitude, I really do.

Let's be honest, the Mormon Hierarchy's teachings on garments are used as a control tactic, a fear tactic and to make a shit load of money, in the hundreds of millions of dollars. They are the bad guys and the assholes, that perpetuate this bullshit, not us ex-Mormons who talk about it.

Unfortunately, their desire for power, control and filthy lucre, is costing the lives of the innocent people and MISSIONARIES we speak of, that buy their bullshit fairy tale and FPRs, which claim garments will protect you. This is outrageous and tragic and verging on criminal.

Now, any ex-Mormons out there, that want to get pissed off at other ex-Mormons for talking about this openly and freely, whenever they want, and that are not pissed off at the Mormon Hierarchy, need to re-direct their anger and frustration to the correct place, which is the Mormon Hierarchy and get a clue while your at it.

The very fact is that WE(those who are talking about garments, etc) are the ones that actually care tremendously about human life, and that’s why we are trying to point out that the Mormon Hierarchy doesn’t give a shit about human life or who dies or if missionaries get killed, repeating again what M. Russell Ballard said plainly, right after 5 missionaries had been tragically killed, “If there are other missionaries that are HURT or other missionaries that are KILLED, IT WILL NOT STOP THIS WORK.”

He’s the guy you want to go after, he's the cold, callous asshole, not other ex-Mormons that are trying to expose him and his damn cult.

It's guys like Ballard and Hinckley and all the other cronies in the Mormon Hierarchy(going back to horny Joe himself), that knowingly perpetuate their fraud to the world and the teachings like "garments will protect you from harm" and the reason that these missionaries, along with their families are brainwashed, believe they are called of Jesus Christ, have leaders directly led by Jesus Christ and are then subsequently killed on their mission representing the Mormon cult.

If the lies and fraud didn't exist and they weren't brainwashed, they wouldn't have been killed on their missions, plain and simple.

So, how does pointing these facts and truths out, make us not concerned about human life? Has anyone really stopped to think that we do what we do, because we care SO MUCH about human life and we are trying to prevent future tragedies? It’s because “they are and were someone's children, friends, grandchildren, and loved ones” that we do what we do, or at least why I do what I do.


I also added another comment to another post, regarding this issue and specifically, the 2 sisters that were brutally raped in South Africa:

Yeah, according to Molly Jolley, the lovely daughter of Danny Brock, the Mission President in South Africa, gang rapes out on a public street, could happen anywhere, even Bountiful, Utah, where Molly lives.

I'd like someone to please tell me the last time 2 women were robbed, beaten and then gang raped at gunpoint for hours, with one being shot, in broad daylight, right on a main street in Bountiful, like 5th south or 5th west? Yeah, Bountiful is just like South Africa, dumbass!

Molly ended her interview saying:

"Bad things happen everywhere and it's unfortunate. My heart goes out to those poor sisters and their families but THE WORK MUST GO ON."

NICE MOLLY! What love, compassion and understanding....but yeah, the cult must go on.

Her Daddy Danny Brock, right after the brutal attack on the 2 sisters, said:

"They were walking alongside a busy road (the old Harding highway), which they knew well. Moreover, it was one of the busiest times of the day with cars whizzing past. Safer than that, you would not get."

Yeah, apparently not safe enough asshole! Oh by the way, an estimated 1,000,000 plus women a year are raped in South Africa and it is ranked 2nd in the world in murder rate...ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY OF THAT DANNY BOY OR DO YOU JUST NOT GIVE A FLYING SHIT?! NOTHING IS TOO GOOD FOR YOUR MORMON GOD AND JESUS, RIGHT MR. BROCK?! IN FACT, IT WOULD BE AN HONOR TO BE RAPED AND MURDERED FOR THE MORMON GOD, WOULDN'T IT?

Spencer W. Kimball would certainly agree, and in fact, these two sisters should be ashamed to even be alive at all, because they should have died, fighting off their rapists harder, as Kimball teaches in MOF. Oh yeah and I certainly hope that they didn't "contribute to the foul dead" as Kimball also hopes.

Danny Brock also said:

"Now, they're getting the best care money can buy. When this is over, THEY PLAN TO REMAIN IN SOUTH AFRICA AND COMPLETE THEIR MISSIONARY WORK."

When this is over? When will that be? Oh yeah, being robbed, beaten and gang raped for hours at gun point, with one of them being shot, was just no big deal man and as soon as they heal PHYSICALLY, they'll return to their mission.

Danny Brock is the asshole of the century! Do these cult leaders ever stop for one second to consider the human element of the situation? EVER?!

I can't even imagine the mental, psychological and emotional trauma that these 2 sisters went through and here their President is, covering the Morg's ass at all costs, making sure everyone knows that the sisters are just fine and can't wait to get back on their mission for the Mormon cult and Jesus.

Will the Mormon cult pay their lifelong medical and counseling bills if they need it? Yeah right! Did they stay on their missions? Anyone know? I'm sure they put tremendous pressure on them to do so, as they always do.

Yeah, here's the Mormon cult faith promoting version of what happened, or how they would report it, or what they would want everyone to think was written in the sister's journal entry for that day, in a nutshell:

"Today we went tracting, were walking down a busy street, and we were robbed, beaten, gang raped for hours at gun and knife point and I was also shot. I was so upset, because we had a 3:00 appointment that we weren't able to make...I hope they understand and that we can reschedule.

Anyway, now we are in the hospital, getting the best care money can buy and I can't wait to get back on that same street again, in the rape Capital of the world, where I know that Jesus Christ and my garments will protect me next time, since I'm a representative of Jesus Christ himself and the 'one and only true church on earth.'

I just hope we can get out of the hospital by Thursday, because we have an appointment for the 3rd discussion with a family that is about to get baptized. I'm so blessed to be here and I know that what we experienced will just make us stronger, was meant to be and that lots of good will come from it."

Sick, demented, disgraceful cult of shit! Talk about a complete MIND FUCK!
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I think my comments clearly explain how I feel and I'm sure the TBM apologists will have plenty to say, or then again, maybe not. Maybe they'll be too embarrassed? I highly doubt it, as they'll usually defend the Mormon cult at any cost, literally.

I mean hey, if they can defend racism, blood atonement and sex with kids and other men's wives, in the name of their God, by their "Praise to the Man/Greater than Jesus Christ Prophet Joseph Smith", why not defend this, right? This is something minor to them, I'm sure, in the big scheme of the cult.

I look forward to your comments,

Samuel the Utahnite

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Friday, April 27, 2007

Chatting With A Mormon Missionary!! Taylor Said: "When Faced With The Two Options, Either Unfaithfulness To God, Or Death, It Is Better To Die."


THE MORMONS DISGRACEFUL AND DESPICABLE "BETTER OFF DEAD" TEACHING IS STILL ALIVE AND WELL FOLKS, JUST ASK A CURRENT MISSIONARY!!

First I wanted to give a shout out to Demon of Kolob, for letting me know about this "chatting with a missionary" option(just click "ask a question" in the upper right hand corner), since it's something I've been wanting to do for a very long time. I'm guessing this is something fairly new and I encourage all of you ex-Mormons out there to take advantage of it.

The busier we keep these clowns, dealing with us anti/ex-Mormons, the less time they have to lie and deceive the honest and sincere people of the world, that don't know they are being bamboozled and deceived at every turn.

I will gladly post transcripts of everybody's experiences, which should be fun. Just drop me an Email if you too have a conversation with the missionaries, that is worth reporting and you want me to post it.

Also, for those that want to speak to a live Mormon missionary, over the phone, you simply call 1-888-537-6600 (in U.S. and Canada only).

At the bottom of the page, it says:

"This feature(the chat or calling them) is not intended for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to contact Church headquarters. Church members should discuss questions or personal matters with their local leaders." (So, I would harass the shit out of them as often as we can.)

Anyway, this is the transcript of the conversation and I'm also doing an audio version of this experience for a new podcast, reading the transcript and adding my comments and thoughts. I'll post the audio both here and on my Mormon Truth Uncensored Podcast, which you can all easily subscribe to and download through iTunes.

Also, once you click to chat with a missionary, a disclaimer pops up to say that the people you are speaking with "don't speak for the church." So, who are they speaking for and who do they represent? Do they have JWs or Catholic Priests doing the chats or what? Give me a break!! What's the point of chatting with them, if you're and investigator and they "don't speak for the Mormon church." In other words, they are completely WORTHLESS!!

Of course, it's just the Mormon Hierarchy's way of covering their ass once again, while using incompetent, clueless, brainwashed, lying missionaries to do their dirty, filthy work of shame.

I mean hell, The Journal of Discourses aren't official(but often quoted in General Conference), Conference talks aren't official scripture anymore, Official Mormon History books aren't even official, Dead Prophets and their teachings are worthless shit now(unless quoted in General Conference of course)...because it's all about the living Prophet, kissing his ass, thanking God for a "Prophet", etc, etc. What a joke and what a damn, pathetic cult!!

To me, this whole chat thing is a sign of their desperation and it's already backfiring big time. I wonder how long before they end it? Was this Danny Boy and the More Good(BULLSHIT) Foundation's idea? Oh, I forgot, he doesn't even work for the church at all and they don't pay him for his apologetic studies either....my bad. Yep, everyone at FARMS works completely free, like a calling to clean shitters or something, right? I mean hey, when the modern day Moses calls.......

Anyway, this was my experience with Taylor, the Mormon missionary, from earlier today. Enjoy everyone!!
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Thank you for taking the time to chat with us and for your interest in the Church. Please know that you are welcome to worship with us any time, request a visit from Mormon missionaries, order a Book of Mormon, or continue to browse our Web site to learn more answers to life's greatest questions.

Samuel:

Hey Taylor, are you a missionary?

Taylor:

Thank you for contacting the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. How May I Help You?

Taylor:

Yes, I am.

Samuel:

I'm 32, just moved to Utah from California and all my neighbors are Mormon and they're talking to me a lot about the church, if I want to talk to the missionaries, take the discussions, etc. I have 2 children under the age of 7 and a neighbor gave me a copy of The Miracle Of Forgiveness, that was written by Spencer Kimball, who was a former Mormon Prophet, right? Since then I've been reading the book and doing extensive research and I'm very troubled by what I'm finding.

Samuel:

I'm always hearing how much Mormons love people, teach about families, etc, but according to this awful book, it's true then that the Mormon Church truly believes and teaches that you're literally better off dead than immoral?

Taylor:

Yes, Spencer W. Kimball was a Prophet. What's troubling you?

Samuel:

Kimball says that in the case of a woman being raped, that "it is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle." So, in other words, if a woman is raped and lived, she didn't fight hard enough? She is actually better off dead? Would the 2 Mormon sister missionaries that were brutally raped at gunpoint, (one was actually shot) in South Africa a while back, be "better off dead", because they didn't actually die that day and lived through their horrific rape that lasted for hours.

Samuel:

this hurts me.

Samuel:

I can't imagine wishing that my daughter, wife, sister or friend was dead.

Samuel:

Another former Mormon Prophet, David O. McKay is quoted in this book as having taught:"...Your virtue is worth more than your life. Please young folk, preserve your virtue even if you lose your lives. Do not tamper with sin...do not permit yourselves to be led into temptation...."

Taylor:

I think you might be misunderstanding what was meant by President Kimball.

Samuel:

Is this true? I can't believe this is for real and I find it horrifying!

Samuel:

What am I misunderstanding...it seems pretty clear to me.

Taylor:

We know that victims of rape are innocent.

Samuel:

The other quotes support my interpretation.

Samuel:

He actually says they are innocent "if she has not cooperated" and "contributed to the foul dead." So how does a woman contribute to "being RAPED?"

Samuel:

I'm looking at the book right now and typing exactly what he said.

Samuel:

If they are innocent, how could they make the Rape happen and be better off giving up their lives fighting off the rapist?

Samuel:

It makes no sense at all.

Samuel:

I also found another very disturbing quote that was taught by a former Mormon Apostle, that supports these comments:

Taylor:

Obviously a woman does not contribute to being raped. These prophets are stressing that if there is a way out of a compromise then they should take it.

Taylor:

They are trying to emphasize the importance of chastity that when compromising situtations occur they should expend all their efforts.

Samuel:

Bruce R. McConkie the former Mormon Apostle taught:"Loss of virtue is too great a price to pay even for the preservation of ones life - BETTER DEAD CLEAN, THAN ALIVE UNCLEAN. Many is faithful the Latter-day Saint parent who has sent a son or a daughter on a mission or otherwise out into the world with the direction: 'I would rather have you come back in a pine box with your virtue than return alive without it.'"

Samuel:

Would your parents and family, rather see you come home dead, in a pine box, than immoral? I sure hope not!! That is sick and disturbing in my opinion and I'm just blown away by these teachings and disgusted.

Samuel:

Again, everything I'm quoting to you, says that opposite of what you're saying. You may believe what you are saying, but it's obvious that the Mormon Prophets and Apostles do not believe as you do and believe exactly what I've quoted.

Samuel:

Do you personally believe this? I think these teachings are pure evil and would lead the youth or anyone to depression and suicidal thoughts and even suicide. What do you think?

Taylor:

The point is, being true to God and being True to the faith is more important than willfully giving up. There are situations where a person can do nothing about what is happening and that case God will take care of things.
Samuel:

So, you do agree with Kimball? You would want a loved one in your family to fight the rapist and die, then to play dead, let him rape her and live? Is that what you're saying? I hope it isn't, but you seem sympathetic to this teaching.

Samuel:

This is some awful stuff man, it really is and I think about my young daughter and I can't imagine wishing her dead, EVER.

Samuel:

I don't know how anyone can defend it in the name of God or their church...I really don't. Do you have kids? Do you hope they die if they are attacked or that they do what it takes to live? I just don't get it at all.

Taylor:

***Well I don't think the teachings of the Church would lead anyone to suicide or depression if they follow the teachings. I would never wish either of these things on anyone.***

Samuel:

So a woman that is raped, can actually be committing a sin, if she doesn't fight hard enough and she is literally "better off dead?"

Taylor:

Also I believe these prophets were referring to adultery not rape in this book.

Taylor:

No, not at all. These prophets are just emphasizing the importance of morality. The rapist victim is never at fault.

Samuel:

I disagree...if a young person is raped or has sex and then they read this book and the horrible quotes in it, that would easily lead to depression and possibly suicide, especially in a very impressionable young person. You can't see that?

Taylor:

The church teaches that and ***it has programs to help those who have been raped or suffered any kind of mental or physical suffering.***

Samuel:

Actually, as I said above, Kimball actually says they are innocent "if she has not cooperated" and "contributed to the foul dead." So how does a woman contribute to "being RAPED?"

Samuel:

What kind of programs...."better off dead" programs?

Taylor:

She doesn't contribute.

Samuel:

Well, I guess you disagree with your former Prophet Kimball then, which I'm glad to hear.

Taylor:

***Let me transfer you to someone else. Just a second....*** (I then sat there for about 5 minutes waiting, after saying the comments below, that I didn't want anyone else. It was obvious that they were moving me to the 2nd or 3rd level of contact, since I was blowing the mind of the pathetic level one missionary. I'm pretty sure that they changed missionaries on me at this point.)

Samuel:

why?

Samuel:

I don't want to talk to anyone else?

Taylor:

Okay.

Samuel:

Let me ask you this...my friend tells me that General Conferences are considered scripture and he invited me to watch the last Conference with his family, which I did. Is it true that what they say is considered scripture?

Samuel:

You can't or don't want to answer my questions anymore?

Taylor:

Yes, what the prophets and apostles teach are received by revelation, and are considered God's word for us today. What did you think of what they said?

Samuel:

They said a lot of good things and I learned a lot. I noticed they really stressed tithing and forgiveness. I really loved the talk by one of the apostles about cucumbers and how they become pickles...that seemed very inspired.

Taylor:

I am glad that you enjoyed what you heard. What did you feel as they spoke?

Samuel:

But the reason that I ask if Conference talks are considered scripture, is because, while doing my research of Miracle of forgiveness and the quotes, former Mormon Prophet Heber J. Grant was quoted regarding this "better off dead" teaching and doctrine and I traced the quote to a Mormon General Conference in 1944, from the Tabernacle in Salt Lake City, which would be considered scripture, right?

Samuel:

Well, I'll assume that it is considered scripture and He said: "There is no true Latter-day Saint who would not rather bury a son or a daughter than to have him or her lose his or her virtue-realizing that virtue is of more value than anything else in all the wide world."

Taylor:

***Virture is of more value than anything in the world, including life itself.*** Before you get excited about that let me explain.

Samuel:

okay...you are just confirming everything I've been quoting, you really are.

Taylor:

Let me try and explain it to you, if you don't mind.

Samuel:

yes

Samuel:

Go ahead

Taylor:

We should never willfully compromise our own standards, and when able, to remain true to God and His commandments.

Samuel:

I know you are going to explain it, but why would I want to join a church that teaches me and my children, that they are better off dead than immoral? As I said above, I find this incredibly evil, vile and destructive. I hear the suicide rates are very high in Utah, would this be why? Are people killing themselves, because the Mormon Prophets and Apostles have told them to, even in General Conference talks? Can you help me understand this? Do you believe it yourself?

Taylor:

I am trying to help you. Please listen to what I have to say.

Samuel:

So, in cases were we are faced with death, rape or immorality, we should choose death?

Samuel:

Sorry, I'm just so upset and angry about this

Taylor:

I understand.

Taylor:

Let me give you an example.

Samuel:

okay

Taylor:

When a woman is enticed by someone and submits to him having the opportunity to escape or to decline, then it isn't a true rape situation. It is that situation President Kimball is talking about. When there is a choice, we should always choose to be clean.

Taylor:

Now, most rapes, are not that case.

Taylor:

Women are physically forced.

Taylor:

The trauma itself numbs them to their situation. They have no will in those situations. They are innocent, and are the victims.

Samuel:

Yeah, but he says point blank:

Samuel:

"it is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."

Taylor:

What constitutes a struggle? Only God is the judge of that.

Samuel:

Plus all of the other quotes I've given you, stating that you are better off dead clean, that alive unclean and that any Mormon Parents would rather see their son or daughter dead in a pine box, than immoral. Do you agree with these highly disturbing teachings?

Samuel:

"Many is faithful the Latter-day Saint parent who has sent a son or a daughter on a mission or otherwise out into the world with the direction: 'I would rather have you come back in a pine box with your virtue than return alive without it.'"

Taylor:

Being unclean is referring to wilfully submitting and compromising standards.

Taylor:

It does not refer to those who have attempted in vain. Again, God is the judge of that.

Samuel:

Even your current Prophet Hinckley, in 1969, reiterated this teaching, when he talked to a soldier in Vietnam, and he told Hinckley that his Mother would rather he come home dead than immoral. Hinckley agreed...

Taylor:

You are misunderstanding what is meant by being immoral.

Samuel:

Okay, well, what if you have a kid or a friend or loved one that goes out and has sex with someone, willingly...are they better off dead?

Samuel:

I understand perfectly what is meant by immoral. I'm 32 and a father of 2 and you don't think I know what immoral means? That's fairly insulting, it really is.

Taylor:

Samuel I apologize, I did not mean to offend you.

Samuel:

No problem...I'm just saying that you don't have to be a Mormon or a genius, to know what Immoral means....I think most people in the world understand this...it's not some new term.

Taylor:

The point is, that the standards and commandments and being faithful to God, is more important than life itself. When it is it a clear choice between life, and being faithful to God, it is better to be faithful to God. The reason for this, is we believe in a life after death! This life is not the end.

Taylor:

Those that die being faithful to God, are received by God.

Taylor:

Most of us, however will fortunately never face that situation.

Samuel:

So this life doesn't matter that much, because we'll live on the other side? I'd like for you to tell that to someone that has lost a child or a loved one.

Taylor:

I didn't say that this life was not worth much. I said our faithfulness to God is worth more.

Taylor:

That shows you how important it is to be faithful to God!

Samuel:

I also read in the September 1981 Ensign, in the message from the Prophet:


"You young people, may I directly entreat you to be chaste. Please believe me when I say that chastity is worth more than life itself. This is the doctrine my parents taught me; it is truth. It is better to die chaste than to live unchaste. The salvation of your very souls is concerned in this."

Taylor:

Life is very important!

Samuel:

"Please believe me when I say that chastity is worth more than life itself."

Taylor:

Samuel, being chaste is being faithful to God, in that sense it is more important than life. A woman raped, is not unchaste.

Samuel:

So, the conclusion I'm reaching here, is that you and your Mormon Church and leaders, do indeed believe that people are better off dead or in a pine box, than immoral...this saddens me greatly, being a Christian man. I don't know how any church could teach these awful things and it certainly isn't from Christ, that's for sure!!

(The meltdown now begins for Taylor)

Taylor:

Samuel, I think you are missing the point and are taking this way out of context. We seem to be going in circles.

Samuel:

I've given you how many quotes stating this? 5? I mean it's undeniable and not a religion that I want any part of and I will spread this word to others, because it is so wrong and outright evil.

Samuel:

I'm taking it out of context?

Taylor:

Yes

Samuel:

Do I need to re-post each quote and let you respond to each one?

Taylor:

***When faced with the two options, either unfaithfulness to God, or death, it is better to die.*** (BINGO!!)

Taylor:

That is what is meant.

Taylor:

If people are immoral, they can repent!

Taylor:

That is what the miracle of forgiveness is. Christ died and suffered so that those who make mistakes can indeed repent.

Samuel:

So, they are all saying it, you agree with it, but it doesn't mean what they are actually saying...it's something completely different? Who's talking in circles? I'm stating facts, things that I've found and read in Miracle of Forgiveness, an official Mormon book, from a former Prophet.

Samuel:

Yeah, but what if they are dead before they repent, because after reading that they "are better off dead in a pine box than immoral", they kill themselves in shame?

Samuel:

It's hard to believe that anyone would defend these teachings, it really is.
Samuel:

If it's all about Christ and what he did for us, why would they teach something so awful, when they can repent as you say?

Taylor:

Samuel, you are not listening to me.

Taylor:

People can repent in this life.

Samuel:

No, it is you that is not listening or using any common sense or decency.

Taylor:

Anyone who is immoral can repent!

Samuel:

My wife was raped when she was younger and I'm glad that she didn't die fighting off her rapist and now I read that Mormons believe she should be dead and I'm deeply offended as she is, rightfully so. He said what he said and he meant what he meant and it's disgraceful!!

Samuel:

When they speak of being immoral, they are speaking of sex, fornication, adultery, masturbation, etc, etc, and nothing else.

Samuel:

One other thing...why does Kimball teach on page 78, edition 19, that masturbation leads to group masturbation, which leads to homosexuality, which then has a "snowballing" effect and leads to bestiality? Do you believe this too?

Samuel:

I mean seriously, the deeper I dig on the Mormon religion, the uglier it gets and I'm shocked by what I'm finding. How could anyone believe this nonsense and such evil things like this.

Taylor:

Samuel, I am not goin to address this. I have tried to talk with you, but have not made any progress. ***I invite you to read the Book of Mormon(BINGO!!) and pray to God to know if it is true.***

Samuel:

Why won't you address my last question? What does the Book of Mormon have to do with any of this?

Samuel:

Will that answer all my questions that I've asked you? Does the Book of Mormon address the masturbation-group masturbation-homosexuality-bestiality teaching of your Prophet Kimball?

Taylor:

The Book of Mormon is a testament of Jesus Christ and is proof that God called Joseph Smith to be a prophet.

Samuel:

Why would I need to pray about any of this, when it's all so wrong and evil? Common sense tells me it's all false, especially with better off dead teachings.

Samuel:

So, what are you saying, if that's(the BOM) true, then everything else I've talked about today is true too?

Taylor:

Samuel, your interpretation of it might not be, but the what was original taught is.

Samuel:

So everything Kimball said is true...the quotes by McKay, McConkie, Grant, etc? It's all true?

Samuel:

My interpretation?

Taylor:

In their original intent, yes.'

Samuel:

Better off in a pine box dead? Give me another interpretation please...

Taylor:

I have tried to explain it to you, but you do not listen.

Samuel:

Actually, it is you who does not listen or have any common sense at all.

Taylor:

I tried, you refused to listen.

Taylor:

I wish you the best, and hope you have a wonderful day!

Samuel:

It is sad to see someone so blinded or brainwashed, to the point of actually wishing people were dead in a pine box, than immoral by Mormon standards. How can you defend these horrific teachings and feel good about yourself? This religion is a complete disgrace and so are you for defending it and these evil, vile teachings....you should be ashamed of yourself Elder Taylor. These are the fruits of Mormonism and I will spread the word to everyone I can!!

===============

Anyway, I'll just let you guys comment on this. Amazing isn't it, how very few of my questions or the quotes were even addressed and then in the end, it all came down to "I invite you to read the Book of Mormon and pray to God to know if it is true." WTF?!!

The BOM had absolutely NOTHING to do with any of my questions at all. This shows what a pathetic cult they are. After reading other's chats with these missionaries, they all got the same exact response I did, no matter what they were bringing up and that was of course to read and pray about the Book of Mormon.

In other words, NOTHING any of us say even matters if the BOM is true. Joseph Smith can be a child rapist, a murderer, a thief, a pedophile, a fraudulent treasure hunter, an adulterer, a pervert, a polygamist, a liar, a fraud, etc, etc, but it doesn't matter, because if the BOM is true, Joseph Smith was a true Prophet of God and the Mormon cult is the one and only true cult on earth.

So, intelligence, logic, common sense, facts, truth and reality have nothing to do with whether Mormonism is true, as it is STILL and ALWAYS HAS BEEN about that Goddamn burning bosom. What a joke and what an embarrassment for those that buy it and have ZERO ability to get out when they learn the truth and facts.

Nothing has changed since my mission and I wonder how long they can keep this bullshit racket going, since we are now living in the Internet and information age, where there are no more secrets and the truth regarding the fraud of Mormonism is EVERYWHERE and spreading fast, like that big rock, rolling through the earth that Mormons love to compare themselves to all the time.

At some point they, the Mormon cult Hierarchy, are going to have to change their modus operandi, or the Mormon cult will stagnate completely, only keeping those in membership, that have been brainwashed since birth. Considering their extremely poor retention rate now, that's about all they have at the moment anyway and it will only get worse.

In the very near future, I'm going to try to spread the "Mormon Truth" in Argentina even more than I and my friends already have and little by little, these other countries, province by province and town by town, are going to learn the "real truth" about Mormonism and get the hell out.

Keep up the great work all you ex-Mormons out there and let's help free those that are currently in bondage to this damn cult, that are questioning and help all the future converts, that are currently studying or will be studying with the Mormon missionaries not to join.

Thanks everyone for your continued support and all that you do!!

Samuel the Utahnite

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Wednesday, January 24, 2007

September Dawn, A Movie About The Mormon's "Mountain Meadows Massacre", Set For Release On May 4, 2007-Should Make Hinckley's Ass A Little tighter!!



Direct Link To Video

The
Mountain Meadows massacre was one of the darkest and most senseless, tragic days in Mormon and US history. It was also one of the most deadly terrorist attacks of innocents, on American soil, until the Oklahoma City bombing. This movie "September Dawn" is supposed to tell this story.

At least 120 or more innocent men, women and children, were brutally slaughtered, at the command of Brigham Young, the then Mormon Prophet, Seer, Revelator and God, who is honored today with a university named after him(BYU), where I once attended(which I'm embarrassed to admit now) and a statue in Salt Lake along with many other honors.

Oh yeah and you can also take guided missionary tours of his
"Beehive house" and hear all the lies about what a great man he was. Mike and Hyrum from "The Church Is Not True" did a podcast of a tour through the Beehive house and exposed the lies that the missionaries are taught to tell everyone on a daily basis.

Brigham Young knew exactly what was happening in Mountain Meadows that day, because he planned the whole thing and ordered them to trick everybody, gain their trust, disarm them and then kill and slaughter everyone, including any children over the age of 8, because they were no longer innocent, since the Mormon age for baptism is 8 years old.

One little girl that was around 11, was put in the wagon with the younger kids, to watch the slaughter. When they were done killing everyone, including her family, they asked her how old she was, since she was bigger than the other kids. She told them the truth, and they asked her to get out of the wagon and they then shot her point blank in the head, right in front of the other kids.

John D. Lee was the leader of the actual attacks and the main trigger-man, and also the best buddy/right-hand man of Brigham Young(and also a member of Briggies prestigious council of 50), as he was also sealed to Brigham Young in the temple, like a husband and wife would be sealed today. Yeah, they did that back then, trying to make the perfect chain back to Adam. Hmm...when did that revelation change? Are all of the current Apostles and Seventies sealed to each other? Maybe it's just for the "in crowd" and not for the lowly peons and regular members?

Here are some links to John D. Lee's confession, written in his own words:

MORMONISM UNVEILED;
OR
THE LIFE AND CONFESSIONS OF THE LATE MORMON BISHOP,

JOHN D. LEE;(Written by Himself)

Preface

LAST CONFESSION AND STATEMENT OF JOHN D. LEE.
CHAPTER XVIII.

CHAPTER XIX.
CONFESSION CONTINUED AND CONCLUDED, MARCH 16, 1877, SEVEN
DAYS PRIOR TO HIS EXECUTION

Brigham Young of course claimed complete innocence and that he knew nothing about it, but later personally went to the site and tore down the makeshift monument that the US government had put up to honor the victims. Hmm...an innocent man pissed off at a monument honoring the dead victims, but he had nothing to do with it? Yeah, that makes sense!!

Maybe it was the words the Government put on the monument(a wooden cross on which Maj. Carleton inscribed "Vengeance is mine: I will repay, saith the Lord."), about what would happen to the man who had ordered these innocents to be killed. I guess it hit a little too close to home for Brigham Young, the mastermind of Mountain Meadows Massacre and that is why he and his men tore it down and destroyed it.

Maj. Carleton, in his report to Congress, describes the scene at Mountain Meadows:


"women's hair caught in sage bushes, children's bones found in their mothers' arms, and wolves picking at the bones. It was, he wrote, 'a sight which can never be forgotten.'"

So, what did the Mormon Hierarchy do? On April 20 1961, the LDS Church's First Presidency, posthumously reinstated John D. Lee's church membership and "former blessings", meaning temple blessings. In other words, all was forgotten and forgiven and all of those people that he executed, many shot point blank in the head, under the direct order and planning of Brigham Young, meant nothing.

Wait, doesn't the D&C say that
murder is the unpardonable sin? What about mass murder? Isn't it just wonderful? Actually no, it isn't, it's F'd up hardcore, just like the Mormon cult and all of you that know the "real truth" and still defend it!!

When Hinckley went to Mountain Meadows on Sept 11, 1999, for the dedication of a rebuilt monument to supposedly bring closure and healing, he said:

"That which we have done here must never be construed as an acknowledgment of the part of the church of any complicity in the occurrences of that fateful day." The line was inserted into his speech on the advice of attorneys for the Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."(The Salt Lake Tribune, March 14, 2000-by Christopher Smith)

That doesn't sound like a contrite, sincere man that wanted forgiveness or that wanted to create healing, does it? The truth is, that the Mormon church will never be able to admit fault in the Mountain Meadows massacre, because A) it would mean that Brigham Young wasn't a Prophet, therefore the church is false and B)can you imagine the cost of the wrongful death suits that would be filed, one after another? Not to mention the PR disaster that would just get worse than it already is.

Hinckley also said:

"All who knew firsthand about what occurred here are long since gone. Let the book of the past be closed. Let peace come into our hearts."

and

"No one can explain what happened in these meadows 142 years ago. We may speculate, but we do not know. We do not understand it. We cannot comprehend it. We can only say that the past is long since gone."

Once again, the Prophet Hinckley pretending to not have a clue about something, that he knows everything about. Amazing how little the Mormon "Prophet, Seer and Revelator" really professes to know, isn't it?

Here's a video of Hinckley contradicting himself and talking about how important the past is, and "to always look to the past" and "how it gives us strength", along with other clips of him then talking about how we should "let the book of the past be closed"(Hmm-I wonder why?) when he spoke at Mountain Meadows in 1999:



Did you notice how emotional he was when talking about the Mormon pioneers and how he showed no emotion when talking about the victims of the Mountain Massacre? So, when it comes to the Mountain Meadows Massacre, or blacks and the Priesthood and their teachings on racism or polygamy, it's all in the past, and they are "little flicks of history", etc, etc, but when it comes to something "faith promoting", we should "always look to the past."

So which is it Hinckley and all you TBMS out there? Should we focus on the past and always look to the past, that always gives us strength, or should we close the book on the past and the little flicks of history? You can't have it both ways!! Either the book is open both ways or shut both ways.

Here is
a link to the official website dedicated to the victims of the Mountain Meadows Massacre and their families.

Those believed to have been killed at or near the Mountain Meadows were:

Alden, William Allen, 19
Baker, George W., 27
Baker, Manerva A. Beller, 25
Mary Loivna, 7
Bellen, Melissa Ann, 14
Bellen, David W., 12
Baker, John T.,52
Baker, Able ,19
Beach, John, 21
Cameron, William, 51
Cameron, Martha, 51
Tillman, 24
Isom, 18
Henry, 16
James, 14
Martha, 11
Larkin, 8
William's niece:
Nancy, 12
Deshazo, Allen P., 20
Dunlap, Jesse Jr., 39
Dunlap, Mary Wharton, 39
Ellender, 18
Nancy M., 16
James D., 14
Lucinda, 12
Susannah, 12
Margerette, 11
Mary Ann, 9
Dunlap, Lorenzo Dow, 42
Dunlap, Nancy Wharton, 42
Thomas J., 17
John H.,16
Mary Ann, 13
Talitha Emaline, 11
Nancy, 9
America Jane, 7
Eaton, William M.
Edwards, Silas
Fancher, Alexander, 45
Fancher, Eliza Ingrum, 32
Hampton, 19
William, 17
Mary, 15
Thomas, 14
Martha, 10
Sarah G., 8
Margaret A., 7
Fancher, James Matthew, 25
Fancher, Frances "Fanny" Fulfer
Fancher, Robert, 19
Huff, Saldia Ann Brown
William
Elisha
Two other sons
Jones, John Milum, 32
Jones, Eloah Angeline Tackitt, 27
daughter
Jones, Newton
McEntire, Lawson A.,21
Miller, Josiah (Joseph), 30
Miller, Matilda Cameron, 26
James William, 9
Mitchell, Charles R., 25
Mitchell, Sarah C. Baker, 21
John, infant
Mitchell, Joel D., 23
Prewit, John, 20
Prewit, William, 18
Rush, Milum L., 28
Stallcup, Charles, 25
Tackitt, Cynthia, 49
Marion, 20
Sebron, 18
Matilda, 16
James M., 14
Jones M., 12
Tackitt, Pleasant, 25
Tackitt, Armilda Miller, 22
Wilson, Richard
Wood, Solomon R., 20
Wood, William , 26
Others UNKNOWN

Other names associated with
caravan included:
Basham, (George D.?)
Hamilton, (Thomas ?)
Haydon, (James C.?)
Hudson, (David ?)
Laffoon family
Morton family, (Charles H.?)
Poteet family
Reed, (John Perkins?)
Smith, (Alf?)
Stevenson, (Mordecai?)

I really hope that this movie will help bring the tragedy of Mountain Meadows and who was responsible, to the attention of the world. From this preview, "September Dawn" looks like it will do this and appears to have nothing to do with the fluff piece that was written in the Deseret News in August of 2005.

I don't know if the project changed when they discovered how horrific it really was and who was really behind it, but it appears to be much more than a Titanic like love story. I just hope that this preview is a true reflection of the movie.


Oh, by the way, whatever happened to that official book(using new sources that nobody had ever seen before) the Mormon church was writing 4 years ago, with the help of Richard Turley, Glen Leonard and Ronald Walker, that was supposed to be entitled "Tragedy at Mountain Meadows?" Is it still in progress or just laying in the closet with all the other skeletons?

In any case, the Mountain Meadows Massacre is just another horrific skeleton in the Mormon Hierarchy's closet full of skeletons, that reminds us all, just what this cult really stands for, has always stood for and will always stand for; corruption, lying, deceit, destruction and yes, even brutal murder of innocent men, women and children, in the name of God and blood atonement. Will the Mormon Hierarchy ever take responsibility for any of their sins?

The answer sadly is no, because they answer to no one, but their own fabricated God and Jesus(who are now more interested in buying and building malls and luxury resorts and re-designing downtowns) and there are no checks and balances to hold them accountable.

And that's why they call it a cult folks!!

Samuel the Utahnite

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Friday, September 09, 2005

Mormons Teach That You Are Better Off "DEAD" Than To Have Any Degree Of Sexual Relations Before Marriage!!




Now, to follow up my disturbing Temple Post from yesterday, I thought I'd share another very disturbing and very evil Church Doctrine. By the way, if you go to the Church museum in Salt Lake City, Utah, you will find a shrine to President Kimball with his book, "The Miracle of Forgiveness" taking center stage. It says something like, "this book has helped so many people around the world", etc. Of course it fails to mention the people that committed suicide after reading it and feeling completely worthless and hopeless.

In my opinion, that book, "The Miracle of Forgiveness", is one of the most evil books ever written, especially within the Mormon Church. I believe very strongly that that one book has done much more damage than it has ever done good. It has destroyed lives and families and continues to do so. It is the standard response from the Bishop to any horrible,sinning, fornicator or masturbator. It is nothing to be proud of and should be taken out of print and removed from display in the Churches Museum. The book is pure evil!!

I'm not sure who the last story came from but I found it somewhere on the Internet several months back and thought it was worth sharing. It is a perfect example of the fear mongering that the LDS Church participates in on a daily basis. This "better off dead" teaching is pure evil and the whole world should know what this damn Mormon cult has been teaching through the years and still is, by recommending such an evil book for people to read after committing some moral sin. It is a tragedy!! How could this so called "Church" teach something so hurtful and so evil. How do the General Authorities wake up in the morning and look at themselves in the mirror. It is becoming clearer and clearer to me that these men must not have any conscience whatsoever and are evil men destroying lives on a daily basis.


By the way, they have never rescinded these comments, never apologized for them and therefore stand by them to this day. Any doubt that this is an evil cult?

Here's what church leaders have said about death being better than experiencing sex before marriage:

"You will recall Alma’s teaching his son Corianton that unchastity is the most serious offense there is in the sight of God, except for murder or denying the Holy Ghost. (See Alma 39:5.) President Clark, in a conference address in October 1938, said: 'Chastity is fundamental to our life and to our civilization. If the race becomes unchaste, it will perish. Immorality has been basic to the destruction of mighty nations of the past; it will bring to dust the mighty nations of the present. You young people, may I directly entreat you to be chaste. Please believe me when I say that chastity is worth more than life itself. This is the doctrine my parents taught me; it is truth. It is better to die chaste than to live unchaste. The salvation of your very souls is concerned in this.' Now, my dear friends, we know there is nothing new in what we have said.
These things are time-tested; they are true. To this we testify."
-LDS First Presidency Message "We Believe in Being Chaste," Ensign, Sept. 1981, 3


"Loss of virtue is too great a price to pay even for the preservation of ones life - better dead clean, than alive unclean. Many is faithful the Latter-day Saint parent who has sent a son or a daughter on a mission or otherwise out into the world with the direction:
'I would rather have you come back in a pine box with your virtue than return alive without it.'"
Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine (all editions), page 124.

President David O. McKay is quoted in Kimball's book as follows:
" . . . Your virtue is worth more than your life. Please young folk, preserve your virtue even if you lose your lives. Do not tamper with sin . . . do not permit yourselves to be led into temptation."

Heber J. Grant is also quoted in Kimball's book:
"...
There is no true Latter-day Saint who would not rather bury a son or daughter than to have him or her lose his or her chastity -- realizing that chastity is of more value than anything else in all the world."

Later in the same book, President Kimball again addresses the matter of Chastity with the elsewhere mentioned paragraph:

"Also far-reaching is the effect of loss of chastity. Once given OR TAKEN OR STOLEN it can NEVER BE REGAINED. Even in forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. IF SHE HAS NOT COOPERATED and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a MORE FAVORABLE position. There is no condemnation where there is NO Voluntary participation. It is BETTER TO DIE in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle." (emphasis mine)

This "better dead than.." teaching has been around a long time in Mormon Seminary and Institute.

I feel sorry for the ignorant Mormons who believe it.

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It was during the plane crash simulation. That long funky room with the accordion doors between the chapel and the gym represented the plane. The bishop announced the "plane" just crashed and made us think really hard about where we would end up that night if it were true. Then they sent the youth through the telestial kingdom, (the junior Sunday school room), the terrestrial kingdom, (the relief society/multipurpose room), and finally, voilà!, the celestial kingdom (the chapel).

We were told the telestial kingdom was as far as we could progress
if we had had sex, and that our parents would rather have us DEAD than for us to lose our chastity. Girls were told to fight rapists to their DEATHS rather than lose their virginity.

In the terrestrial kingdom, we were told which lesser sins were allowed that would land us there.

In the celestial kingdom, our parents and families were secretly waiting for us for a surprise testimony meeting. That was how it would be--joining our loved ones in the CK if we didn't sin. Many tears were shed and wayward girls and boys were set straight and narrow again.

I remember being scared to death because I was going to end up in the telestial kingdom for masturbating.

Samuel the Utahnite

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