Mormon Church, Foundation At Odds Over Mountain Meadows Monument...What A Disgrace!!

I just want to say thanks to Demon of Kolob for posting this article in my comments section and on his blog. I hadn't seen the article until he posted it. I think this article is 100% clear in showing the world how little respect the Mormon Hierarchy, is treating the families of the victims of Mountain Meadows Massacre with.

Here is the entire article from the Salt Lake Tribune, for those that haven't read it yet:

Mormon church, foundation at odds over Mountain Meadows monument
The Associated Press

Descendants of a 120-member Arkansas immigrant party say their plea for federal stewardship of the Mountain Meadows mass grave site has been rejected by LDS Church.

Phil Bolinger and Scott Fancher of the Arkansas-based Mountain Meadows Monument Foundation say they got the news June 6 in a telephone call from Elder Marlin Jensen, who oversees the church history department.

"He told us that President (Gordon B.) Hinckley had turned us down. He doesn't think it's in the best interests of the church to allow federal stewardship in the meadows," said Bolinger, the foundation president who is related to 30 of those killed. "That really bit me bad."

Jensen declined an interview, but confirmed through spokeswoman Kim Farah that the church will not pursue federal stewardship of the site. A similar request was also rejected in 1999.

Descendants want the site in the hands of a neutral third party because they believe the institutional church is complicit in the murders.

"It's not right for the people who had complicity to the killings to be the grave owner," said Bolinger, who discussed the issue with Jensen on April 25 in Salt Lake City.

"I asked him, 'How you do you think the Kennedy family would feel if the Lee Harvey Oswald family had control of the Kennedy tomb?'"

History hangs the Sept. 11, 1857, event on southern Utah Mormon leaders and a small band of Paiute Indians, leaving the culpability of then-church president Brigham Young up for debate. An upcoming book from church historians takes the same position.

Headed to California, the wagon train led by Capt. Alexander Fancher and John Baker arrived in the Utah territory at the same time the federal government was mounting pressure on the Mormon church for its practice of polygamy and disregard for federal oversight.

They camped first near Salt Lake City and then headed south to the meadow, a well-known stopover on the old Spanish Trail. The immigrants were attacked and spent a week engaged in gun skirmishes before local Mormon Elder John D. Lee rode in on horseback with a white flag to negotiate their rescue.

Persuaded to walk single-file and unarmed from the valley, the immigrants were shot at close range, stabbed or beaten to death. Their bodies were not buried.

Seventeen children were spared, all of them under age six-young enough, some said, not to remember or speak of what they saw. The youngsters were adopted by local families and later returned to their relatives in Arkansas.

Lee was tried, convicted and executed for the massacre 20 years later and is the only person ever held responsible.

Today, the Mountain Meadows monument site is a 2,500-acre parcel in a rolling scrub-pine and sagebrush valley about 35 miles northwest of St. George.

The land is a patchwork of public and private holdings, some of which was passed down through families from pioneer ancestors.

There are four known mass grave sites and two memorials-the rock pyramid known as the Carelton Cairn on the valley floor and a memorial wall on Dan Sill Hill, which overlooks the valley and is inscribed with the known names of victims from the 29 different families on the wagon train.

The monument is already on the National Park Service's Register of Historic Places, but the designation doesn't guarantee public access or public input before construction or other site changes, foundation attorney Scott Fancher said.

Foundation members believe a higher designation, such as national monument status, would better protect the interests of all and salve the wounds of many Fancher party descendants, said Bolinger, of Hindsville, Ark.

"Federal stewardship of this grave site ... that's all it would take to put this to bed," he said.

Federal oversight might also have prevented the Aug. 3, 1999, maintenance work on the cairn when a church crew accidentally unearthed the remains of at least 28 men, women and children. A forensic evaluation was begun, but cut short on an order from Utah's then-Gov. Mike Leavitt, a descendant of some who participated in the massacre.

At a dedication ceremony of the rebuilt cairn that September, Hinckley said the church carries a moral responsibility to remember the victims, but fell short of acknowledging church complicity to the crime.

Mormon church leaders are committed to appropriately preserving the Mountain Meadows site, Farah said.

"The church has owned the monument site at Mountain Meadows for many years. The property is open to the public and considerable time and resources are allocated to ensure that the property is well-maintained, open to the public and that those who perished there are appropriately remembered," she said.

Farah also confirmed what Washington County recorder's office records show - over the past few months, the church has increased its holdings in the meadow. Since March at least two families have deeded their property over to the church.

"The church intends to administer and maintain this property in like manner, thereby preserving it from either residential or commercial development," said Farah. (Until Jesus Christ supposedly gives them a revelation to build a mall or a temple that is.)

Bolinger said the foundation, one of three descendant groups, shared concerns that residential development in fast-growing Washington County would damage the site. But he's rankled by the church's acquisition of more land and says he'll continue to push for federal stewardship.

"It's the highest honor we could pay these people," Bolinger said.
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It truly is sickening and hard for me to even fathom!! It is despicable and revolting how little regard Hinckley and co. have for these families and their pain and loss. Their is no love, no compassion and no concern whatsoever. But then again, I guess that's how criminals act, right?

So, I guess Marlin K. Jensen really is the new asshole in charge and official Mormon Spokesman eh? Whether it's "The Mormon" documentary or homosexuals on Nightline or now Mountain Meadows Massacre...he's your man and go-to guy and a complete jackass loser I might add.

They are purposely causing these people more pain and putting them through a living hell, just like they do to anyone that ever accuses a Bishop, Stake President or any leader or member of sexual abuse.

They sic Jesus' Lawyers on them, call them liars and re-victimize them all over again, as they try to discredit the person by attacking every aspect of their life, accusing them of false things they never even did and blaming them for what happened.(Just like they did to Galatians brother, when he was fighting for custody of HIS child, which was literally kidnapped from him).

When found guilty, as they often are, because they are indeed guilty, the Mormon church(Jesus Christ) then appeals with everything they've got, re-victimizing them yet again, with no mercy...how Christlike!!

In most cases, they know damn well that the Bishop, leader or member did what he's accused of, but go forward, at all costs, defending him and the church, to protect it's "precious reputation." As the Bishop's handbook of instructions says over and over; that's their number one priority, to protect the reputation of the Mormon cult, even ranking apostates as more of a threat or danger than predators. WTF?!!

Their Jesus Christ must be so proud of them, as this is revelation directly from him to do this and they are just being obedient, right? Kind of like banning blacks from the Priesthood and cursing them as the "seed of Cain"...right? According to "OFFICIAL" Mormon doctrine, Hinckley is THE ONLY MAN ON EARTH, that can speak for and on behalf of God...so yes, he's off the hook and just obeying his wonderful, loving Mormon God of make believe.

Here are some quotes by current Apostles, regarding how important it is to protect the church's reputation at any cost:

"My duty as a member of the Council of the Twelve is to protect what is most unique about the LDS church......Everything may be sacrificed in order to maintain the integrity of those essential facts. Thus, if Mormon Enigma reveals information that is detrimental to the reputation of Joseph Smith, then it is necessary to try to limit its influence and that of its authors."-(Apostle Dallin Oaks, footnote 28, Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith: Psychobiography and the Book of Mormon, Introduction p. xliii)

“You seminary teachers and some of you institute and BYU men will be teaching the history of the Church this school year. This is an unparalleled opportunity in the lives of your students to increase their faith and testimony of the divinity of this work. Your objective should be that they will see the hand of the Lord in every hour and every moment of the Church from its beginning till now.”

“Church history can be so interesting and so inspiring as to be a very powerful tool indeed for building faith. If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a faith destroyer.”

“There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not.”

“Some things that are true are not very useful.”

“That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith — particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith — places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities. ... Do not spread disease germs!"- (Boyd K. Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect", 1981, BYU Studies, Vol. 21, No. 3, pp. 259-271)

"Indeed, in some instances, the merciful companion to truth is silence. Some truths are best left unsaid."

"Any who are tempted to rake through the annals of history, to use truth unrighteously, or to dig up “facts” with the intent to defame or destroy, should hearken to this warning of scripture:

“The righteousness of God [is] revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.” (Rom. 1:17-18.)

"I repeat: 'The wrath of God is … against all … who hold the truth in unrighteousness.'"

"To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter against the Lord and his anointed, weigh carefully your action in light of this sacred scripture:"

“These dissenters, having the same instruction and the same information … yea, having been instructed in the same knowledge of the Lord, nevertheless, it is strange to relate, not long after their dissensions they became more hardened and impenitent, and … wicked, … entirely forgetting the Lord their God.” (Alma 47:36.)

"We must realize that we are at war. The war began before the world was and will continue. The forces of the adversary are extant upon the earth. All of our virtuous motives, if transmitted only by inertia and timidity, are no match for the resolute wickedness of those who oppose us."- (Russell M. Nelson, “Truth—and More,” Ensign, Jan. 1986, page 69)

Now, I posted Dallin H. Oaks' arrogant and outlandish comments from "The Mormons" PBS documentary the other day(I can't get his arrogant, pompous ass, condescending smirk out of my mind); about not being able to EVER criticize Mormon Leaders, even if the criticism is true, and I wasn't aware that he had a history of making such comments and was only reconfirming what he'd said countless times in the past.

Here are some of those other times:

"It is one thing to depreciate a person who exercises corporate power or even government power. It is quite another thing to criticize or depreciate a person for the performance of an office to which he or she has been called of God. It does not matter that the criticism is true."

"As Elder George F. Richards, President of the Council of the Twelve, said in a conference address in April 1947, 'when we say anything bad about the leaders of the Church, whether true or false, we tend to impair their influence and their usefulness and are thus working against the Lord and his cause.' ... The Holy Ghost will not guide or confirm criticism of the Lord's anointed, or of Church leaders, local or general. This reality should be part of the spiritual evaluation that LDS readers and viewers apply to those things written about our history and those who made it." -( Dallin H. Oaks, "Reading Church History," CES Doctrine and Covenants Symposium, Brigham Young University, 16 Aug. 1985, page 25. also see Dallin H. Oaks, "Elder Decries Criticism of LDS Leaders," quoted in The Salt Lake Tribune, Sunday August 18, 1985, p. 2B)

"Truth surely exists as an absolute, but our use of truth should be disciplined by other values. ... When truth is constrained by other virtues, the outcome is not falsehood but silence for a season. As the scriptures say, there is “a time to keep silence, and a time to speak.”

"Does the commandment to avoid faultfinding and evil speaking apply to Church members’ destructive personal criticism of Church leaders? Of course it does. It applies to criticism of all Church leaders—local or general, male or female. In our relations with all of our Church leaders, we should follow the Apostle Paul’s direction: “Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father.” (1 Tim. 5:1.)

"Government or corporate officials, who are elected directly or indirectly or appointed by majority vote, must expect that their performance will be subject to critical and public evaluations by their constituents. That is part of the process of informing those who have the right and power of selection or removal. The same is true of popularly elected officers in professional, community, and other private organizations."

"A different principle applies in our Church, where the selection of leaders is based on revelation, subject to the sustaining vote of the membership. In our system of Church government, evil speaking and criticism of leaders by members is always negative. Whether the criticism is true or not, as Elder George F. Richards explained, it tends to impair the leaders’ influence and usefulness, thus working against the Lord and his cause."

"Public debate—the means of resolving differences in a democratic government—is not appropriate in our Church government. We are all subject to the authority of the called and sustained servants of the Lord. They and we are all governed by the direction of the Spirit of the Lord, and that Spirit only functions in an atmosphere of unity. That is why personal differences about Church doctrine or procedure need to be worked out privately." - Apostle Dallin H. Oaks, “Criticism,” Ensign, Feb. 1987, page 68

Notice that the quote from George F. Richards, which Oaks is so proud of, includes LOCAL or general leaders. I've taken some heat lately, for saying that Oaks is saying that we can't criticize the "LOCAL LEADERS" that he admits committed the Mountain Meadows Massacre. TBMS or pathetic Mormon apologists, are saying that he only meant the highest level of leadership like Apostles or the Prophet.

Now we have complete clarity on the issue, from Oaks' very own words, so you Mormon apologists can go screw yourselves with your bullshit excuses and false interpretations of exactly what he was saying. He said exactly what he meant and meant exactly what he said; that you can't criticize ANY MORMON LEADER, AT ANY LEVEL, even those that he has no doubt massacred all those men, women and children at Mountain Meadows.

Like he says above: "Public debate—the means of resolving differences in a democratic government—is not appropriate in our Church government."

To Oaks and all the other GAs; it is wrong to criticize any level of Mormon leadership, be it a Bishop, Stake President or the Prophet himself, because they were called by divine revelation, directly from the Mormon God, CASE CLOSED!!

This blind loyalty and following, even to the literally giving of your life for the Mormon cult, is also confirmed in the Mormon temple ordinances:

"And as Jesus Christ has laid down his life for the redemption of mankind, so we should covenant to sacrifice all that we possess, even our own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the Kingdom of God."

"All arise. Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of you solemnly covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this alter that you will observe and keep the Law of Sacrifice, as contained in the Old and New Testament, as it has been explained to you.

Each of you bow your head and say 'yes.'"

Before 1990, in the spirit of Brigham Young's "blood atonement", all members that went through the temple, including myself and a lot of my family members and many of my friends, had to take death oaths, literally acting out and pantomiming their own deaths, together as a group in unison. Isn't that cult like? Nah...not at all!!

Here are those death oaths:

Death Oath #1:

ELOHIM: "All arise." (All patrons stand.)

ELOHIM: "Each of you make the sign of the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, by bringing your right arm to the square, the palm of the hand to the front, the fingers together, and the thumb extended. This is the sign. Now, repeat in your mind after me the words of the covenant, at the same time representing the execution of the penalty."(The Execution of the Penalty is represented by placing the thumb under the left ear, the palm of the hand down, and by drawing the thumb quickly across the throat to the right ear, and dropping the hand to the side.)

"I ________, think of the new name, covenant before God, angels and these witnesses that I will never reveal the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name and sign, and penalty. Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken."
(Patrons perform the action as the Officiator guides them.)
"That will do." (Patrons sit down.)

Death Oath #2:

PETER: "The sign is made by bringing the right hand in front of you, with the hand in cupping shape, the right arm forming a square, and the left arm being raised to the square. This is the sign. (The officiator demonstrates.) The Execution of the Penalty is represented by placing the right hand on the left breast, drawing the hand quickly across the body, and dropping the hands to the sides. I will now explain the covenant and obligation of secrecy which are associated with this token, its name, and sign, and penalty, and which you will be required to take upon yourselves."

PETER: "All arise. (All Patrons stand.) Each of you make the sign of the Second Token of the Aaronic priesthood by bringing the right hand in front of you, with the hand in cupping shape, the right arm forming a square, and the left arm being raised to the square. This is the sign."

"Now, repeat in your mind after me the words of the covenant, at the same time representing the Executing of the Penalty."

"I, _________, think of the first given name, solemnly covenant, before God, angels, and these witnesses that I will never reveal the second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name, and sign, and penalty. Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken."
(Patrons perform the action as the Officiator guides them.)
"That will do." (All patrons sit down.)

Death Oath #3:

PETER: "All arise. (All patrons stand.) Each of you make the sign of the First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood or Sign of the Nail by bringing the left hand in front of you with the hand in cupping shape, the left arm forming a square; also by bringing the right hand forward, the palm down, the fingers close together, the thumb extended, and by placing the thumb over the left hip. This is the sign."

"Now repeat in your mind after me the words of the covenant, at the same time representing the Execution of the Penalty(The Execution of the penalty is represented by drawing the thumb quickly across the body, and dropping the hands to the sides):"

"I solemnly covenant in the name of the Son that I will never reveal the First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood or Sign of the Nail, with its accompanying name,and sign and penalty. Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken."(Patrons perform the action as the Officiator guides them.)

"That will do." (All patrons sit down.)

You guys think these are bad; check out what the penalties were before the 1930s:

...Should we do so, we agree that our throats be cut from ear to ear and our tongues torn out by their roots."

ADAM: "All bow your heads and say Yes."

TEMPLE PATRONS: "Yes." (All patrons sit down.)

"...Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

"All bow your heads and say yes."

TEMPLE PATRONS: "Yes." (All patrons sit down.)

"...Should we do so, we agree that our bodies be cut asunder in the midst and all our bowels gush out."

"All bow your heads and say yes."

TEMPLE PATRONS: "Yes." (All patrons sit down.)

I'd also like to put to bed, for good, the "is the temple ceremony SECRET or SACRED(as all TBMS and Mormon apologists claim)? In 1984, the following appeared in the temple ceremony that should answer this question:

ELOHIM: We will now give unto you the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood with its accompanying name, sign, and penalty. Before doing this, however, we desire to impress upon your minds the sacred character of the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name, sign, and penalty, as well as that of all the other tokens of the Holy Priesthood, with their names, signs, and penalties, which you will receive in the temple this day. They are most sacred, and are guarded by solemn covenants and obligations of secrecy to the effect that under no condition, even at the peril of your life, will you ever divulge them, except at a certain place that will be shown you hereafter. The representation of the execution of the penalties indicates different ways in which life may be taken.(Does that sound like the penalties aren't literal to you, as TBMS and Mormon apologists also claim?)

One question that everyone should be asking themselves is this: if the Mormon Hierarchy had absolutely nothing to do with this horrific massacre at Mountain Meadows and they have no idea what happened there in Mountain Meadows on September 11, 1857, as current Mormon Prophet Gordon Bozo Hinckley claims; why are they so desperate to hang onto this land and not only keep the land they already have, but continue to expand their land holdings in that area. WHY?!!

If they were completely innocent in this matter, had nothing to do with it as Hinckley claims; they would turn this land over in 2 seconds....or should I say anyone with any human decency would do that. Gee, maybe they plan to one day build a mall on top of it or maybe a temple or a Stake Center...why not?

They'd probably have some big ceremony to dig up the bodies and move them somewhere else, to make room for their mall, or building or housing development. They'd spin it as how sensitive and kind they were to do this and that they cared so much, that they spent all that sacred money of Jesus Christ, to move the bodies of people that they didn't even kill. They would want everyone to pat them on the back and sadly, TBMS would do just that and rejoice and agree with everything they said and did, singing "We Thank Thee O God For A Prophet."

The Hierarchy would of course have their perpetual video camera there, to film a 2 hour special to play in betweens sessions of the next General Conference. They'd have the camera man go around and ask people what they thought of their kind gesture and only play the positive responses from die-hard TBMS in their 2 hour "we are wonderful" bullshit propaganda show.

I'm sure they'd also mix in plenty of Marlin K. Jensen, Daniel C. Peterson and Ken Verdoia, the new 3 headed Mormon apologist monster; to tell the world how wonderful it was that God's servants, would do such a magnificent thing and how much they loved these poor, innocent men, women and children, that the Mormon leaders butchered and slaughtered, without a doubt, as admitted to by Dallin H. Oaks.

They already dug up 28 bodies when building their bullshit, cover-our-ass(we just did it out of the blue, because we're really, super nice and feel bad the Indians or anti-Mormons killed your relatives) monument in 1999. As Hinckley says, "let the book of the past be closed." Why? I think we should let the book be wide open!!

But I guess that's easy to say for Hinckley, when you are the one trying desperately to cover up a mass murder that former Mormon leaders committed and celebrated. Their culpability might just affect the ol' "we're the one and only true church on the face of the earth" statement. Brigham Young angrily tearing down the monument is also absolute proof of his culpability in the whole thing. Why would he tear down a monument to the 120+ innocent men, women and children that were massacred?

In fact, even if Brigham Young didn't personally order the massacre, being the infallible, can't ever lead you astray Prophet, Seer and Revelator, that they all claim to be; he should have at least known about it from his latest conversation with Jesus Christ, right? Oh, it didn't come up in the conversation? Oh, okay, I guess it was meant to be and other things were more important, like blacks are the "seed of Cain" and should be executed and how to stick a javelin through your cheating wife and how to deal with and kill those evil, anti-Christ apostates.

The Mormon Hierarchy past and present, have no regard for those that died that dreadful day and have no regard for the families of the victims now. As I've mentioned, Dallin H. Oaks now admits, "without a doubt", that local leaders and Mormons committed the massacre and I wonder who the local leaders answered to...maybe Brigham Young? Ya think?!! Figure it out TBMS, as it's not difficult to connect the dots if you even have half a braincell functioning. Even the most brainwashed, deluded, TBM Mormon should be able to put this one together.

Anyway, I found this article to be both revealing and shocking and damn I'm glad it's out there, so that everyone can see what evil bastards the Mormon Hierarchy really and truly are and always have been. These are difficult times for the brainwashed TBMS in denial, who have been lied to since birth or conversion and especially the Mormon Apologists, like Daniel C. Peterson and Van Hale, who make a living making up pathetic, bullshit excuses for every vile teaching or doctrine they've ever taught and every dark sin and atrocity that they have committed, as if none of it ever really happened.

They bank on the fact that the world, specifically the Mormon members, are just a bunch of brainwashed dumb asses, who follow like little sheep and believe every word they say. Sadly, in many cases, they are right when it comes to the average Mormon, due to the deep indoctrination and brainwashing since birth. I'm just glad that I was able to break my death chains or darkness and brainwashing and see the light.

There is blood, that is literally on the hands of the past and current Mormon Hierarchy, along with their multitude of skeletons. How embarrassing it must be, to have to publicly defend these assholes to the world, as if none of it is true or ever happened. You couldn't pay me enough to defend these vile thugs, that masquerade as "servants of God", and sacrifice my integrity and reputation. Apparently some people can be easily bought off, as they have literally sold their souls to the Mormon Hierarchy.

Those that defend the Mormon Hierarchy, after having the truth and facts, are pathetic and a complete disgrace to all mankind and humanity.

As always, I look forward to your comments.

Samuel the Utahnite

Where is God?!! My Thoughts And Feelings Right After The Tragic Virginia Tech Massacre.

Wednesday, April 18, 2007

Where is God?!!

So, here’s the deal…if there really was a loving, all knowing and all powerful God out there in the big sky, that hovers over this earth; he wouldn’t stand(or float) by and watch 60 innocent people get shot, including 32 that were brutally murdered on the campus of Virginia Tech this week.

So, for all you die-hard God lovers and defenders out there, let me get this straight; this wonderful God, that loves everyone so very much…watched as this evil, psychopathic bastard bought his guns and ammo, hatched his plan, loaded the guns and proceeded to his personal, one man massacre and slaughter.

Of course God also knows everything that happens before it happens(one of the bragging rights, perks and qualifications for Godhood), so he even knew before this son of a bitch was born, that he was going to go on a shooting spree and slaughter innocent people before killing himself like the coward he was, and allowed him to be born anyway and then commit the slaughter. God did nothing but watch!!

It must be embarrassing to claim your God is so loving, caring and powerful, when he stands idly by and never does a goddamn thing to prove what you’re saying is actually true. What love, what compassion? Like I recently asked a TBM friend; what exactly has God done for you or this earth recently? He was silent and I kept asking and he had no answer, because the answer is absolutely NOTHING!!

How can anyone actually believe that bullshit and say it with a straight face. To the contrary; everything that happens on this earth, especially the rape, murder, torture, mass executions, genocide, starvation, etc, proves the exact opposite.

In fact, anything good that happens on this earth, is because of what MAN does and not what some mysterious candy ass in the sky does. When a criminal is prosecuted, it is man and man’s law that does the punishment, not God or God’s law.

When someone is saved, it is man that does the saving, not some God. When a killer is caught and punished, it is man doing the catching, not God. So again, I ask the question, where is God? It appears that he's no where to be found.

Oh yeah, and this is the same guy that according to the “perfect/infallible Bible”, wants us to literally die for him if needed and spend eternity on our knees, worshiping his ass? Give me a break!! That God must be an asshole!!

Like Ray says, "if that’s how we are going to spend eternity, I’ll take my chances in hell", which would be better than the “personal hell” of kissing some guy's ass and feet for all eternity, who never did a thing for me and that I never personally knew.

Also, I’m going to start addressing the “God Apologists” by the proper term, because that is exactly what they are. My advice to them is to shut the hell up and allow this all powerful God to start defending himself for a change. Isn’t it time for God to God-up? Quit babying God and let him fight his own battles for a change!! If he's so damn all powerful and can move mountains, let him defend himself and explain why he allows all of the daily atrocities to take place.

Why does he, this all powerful, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent God, need some weak, pathetic creatures(that he created of course), that were born worthless sinners(all of which most Christians believe), to constantly defend his pathetic ass and lack of intervention. Oh yeah, it’s that whole free agency nonsense, I forgot.

So, if God can't do anything to ever intervene, why does Satan have so much power? Don't all the religious people always blame Satan for everything? Satan did this, Satan put it in his heart or mind, Satan has great power, etc, etc. Give me a break...it's starting to sound like the religious fanatics worship Satan and think he has more power than God and guess what? Looking at this earth, it certainly appears that way to me, which is to say that their Satan is whooping God's ass!!

Yeah, it's really too bad that Satan has more influence than God, isn't it? I guess God's so called plan is failing miserably, but oh yeah, he knew it would, because once again, "he knows the beginning from the end", he's the "Alpha and Omega" and all that other nonsense.

Let God himself(herself/itself) come down in all his wonderful and powerful glory and splendor and defend himself against these charges on CNN, MSNBC, THE BBC or Fox News. Oh yeah, I guess that’s what the second coming is all about, right guys?

You know, when God/Jesus Christ returns to the earth and finally appears, in order to fry all the non-Jesus believers to a crisp, no matter how good of a life they‘ve lived, no exceptions? Where is God now? Is he still hiding in the clouds or maybe a burning bush? Apparently so, because he is NO WHERE to be found that I or anyone else has seen. Oh yeah, Joseph Smith saw him..LOL!!

A month or so ago, I debated a guy on a Skypecast that some of you where there for. This guy was so far mentally gone, that I truly believe there is no hope for him and he should check into a mental hospital or a padded room ASAP. He was one of these fanatical Evangelicals that I have talked so much about and a complete disgrace to mankind and all humanity. He barely even qualifies as human.

He truly believed(due to his fanatical religious beliefs), that he, myself and everyone else was a sinner from the second they were born and deserved DEATH. He admitted that he felt he deserved to be executed, burned to death, etc.

This debate happened right after all of those children in that New York apartment building, had tragically burned to death in a horrific fire. I asked him specifically about that tragedy and this pathetic guy said that they DESERVED to die, felt nothing for them and thought it was a good thing, because after all; “they were all sinners from birth.”

That was when he said that everyone, including himself deserved to burn to death, be executed, starve to death, etc. He had no mercy, in the name of his supposed loving, all powerful God. This is some seriously sick shit!!

These type of fanatical losers dehumanize everything and everyone and they‘re pathetic in every sense of the word.

These people are also very dangerous to all mankind and in reality, they have no values, morals or integrity and yet they consider me the evil, vile one, because I don’t believe as they do, in their God/Jesus combo, that makes no sense to any rational mind. Thank their God I don’t believe as they do!!

If they don’t value human life at all and truly believe that everyone deserves to die, be executed or literally burned to death; they could go out and kill anyone anyway they choose to and justify it in the name of their God, which happens all the time.

In fact, when it comes to mass murder and executions of innocent non-believers, since the time of Christ, I think the Christians, very sadly, have kicked the Muslims ass. Of course they want everyone to think that it’s the Muslims and everyone else that is doing all the killing and that they’ve never done something so awful. Ever hear of the Christian crusades?

I mean hey, after all, the Christians have the fine examples of their Prophets like Moses, who slaughtered countless thousands of innocents, which included men, women and children, in the name of his/their God, right? Ever heard of "thou shalt not kill?" Apparently Moses, nor his God from a bush/cloud were familiar with that teaching at all, since it was his God commanding mass genocide.

In all reality, what the mass murdering SOB did at Virginia Tech this week, which was horrific, pales in comparison to all of the innocent men, women and children that Moses ordered slaughtered and the virgin women raped, in the Christians beloved, perfect Bible, in the name of God. Why can’t Christians see this, when it’s so obvious? Where’s the equal outrage?

People condemn the guy from Virginia Tech, as I do and rightfully so, but then they praise Moses as a great man, who parted the red sea? What am I missing here? Moses should be condemned by all of Christianity as a very evil, vile, mass murdering man.

The Lafferty brothers here in Utah killed a young lady and her child, in the name of God, claiming that he commanded them to do it. Joseph Smith had sex with other men’s wives and little girls, in secret behind Emma’s back, all in the name of his fabricated God. Are you getting the picture here?

Brigham Young taught that blacks should be executed if they mix their seed with Caucasians, along with execution for many other different sins.

This teaching was known as blood atonement and was once again taught in the name of his God, not to mention the horrific racism and teachings that “blacks are the seed of Cain” and “cursed”, that has been taught in Mormonism since the very beginning dating back to 1830, also in the name of their God. If you don't believe me, just read the Book of Mormon and how the Lamanites were cursed with black or dark skin, due to their sins.

Now, I only make the comparison between the evil executioner at Virginia Tech and Moses, in order to point out the absurdity and evilness of the Bible, which allows anyone to justify anything, including mass murder and genocide, especially those that consider the Bible to be the “perfect” and "infallible" word of God, as many do. At least the Mormons got that right, but too bad they don't apply the same "as far as translated correctly" to their horrendous, bogus, hate-filled Book of Mormon.

Anyone that condemns the mass murders this week at Virginia Tech, which should be everyone, should also be openly condemning the Bible, in order to not be a complete hypocrite and look ridiculous.

Now, I realize that many people out there consider themselves to be good Christians, that go to church every week and that they really don’t even read or study the Bible too much. Many are not even aware of the horrific and destructive teachings of the Bible, because only the good things are focused on when their church teaches them.

The bottom line is that it’s time for people to start using their brains and trying to get things done themselves, instead of waiting for the big man in the sky to intervene or do anything, because he has no intention of ever doing anything, never has and never will. The God of the Bible is a fraud and a mass murderer and complicit in every crime that happens on earth!!

When the gunman at Virginia Tech decided to slaughter 32 innocent students this week, he did it because he wanted to and took joy in it, even smiling while killing the students. When Moses did it, he also took joy and great pleasure in it and did it all in the name and honor of his God, whom he wanted to please and obey. Brigham Young ordered the execution of innocents, like Mountain Meadows Massacre, once again, in the name of his God. Anyone seeing the pattern yet?

Whenever there have been great crimes or mass executions, it was the person or people that decided to do it and not from some direct orders from some God in the sky...or at least I sure hope not. In other words, that God and that Bible or some Biblical type book, is the inspiration and justification for most of the atrocities and wars on earth.

So, I ask; why would God stop the executions at Virginia Tech, when he was the author of and orderer of the mass executions of the Old Testament? Christians and Mormons even have a bigger problem than that; they claim that the God/Jehovah/LORD of the Old Testament, was later born as Jesus Christ in the flesh.

Of course Mormons believe that Jesus is a God, but also the Son of another God(The Father) and a separate person from God(heavenly father), while Christians believe that Jesus is God and both the son of and father of…..himself…LOL!! He prayed to himself, threw his voice from the heavens like a ventriloquist, was the only begotten of himself, spoke of a father he did not have and all the other lunacy that most mainstream Christians believe.

Either way you believe, whether it’s Mormon, Christian or some other nutty belief system involving the Bible or a Biblical book, it’s all fatally flawed and makes ZERO common sense and is a complete joke.

So the Jesus of the Old Testament was seriously, raging pissed and was ordering the mass executions of non-believers, sinners or those dancing around a golden calf, while the Jesus of the new testament, was a “turn the other cheek” pacifist?

Of course Jesus did occasionally slip into his old raging pissed-off self/alter ego of the Old Testament, when he stated that “he came with a sword” and that everyone should “hate their Mother, Father, Brother, Sister”, etc and kiss his ASS or they’d be screwed for all Eternity.

Hey maybe Jesus was just a normal guy who pretended to be the guy that was fabricated in the Old Testament and named Jehovah, to justify all of their hate crimes and mass murder and rape...ya think?!! Good thing that Jesus went and studied Buddha's teachings or he would have been all about hate and murder.

People at Virginia Tech are now praying to said God for healing, when the very same God couldn’t, wouldn’t and didn’t even prevent the mass murder to begin with.

Why would God heal them, when he didn’t give a shit and allowed the executions to happen in the first place?

Doesn’t it make more sense, if you were God, to prevent the horrific murders to begin with, that now requires the healing that they are praying for, than to allow 60 people to be shot and 32 of those executed by a mass murderer? If he wasn’t there for them before the tragedy, why the hell would he be there now?

One student said that “God is the one we need to be talking to.” Oh really? You need to be talking to an invisible man in the sky that can’t and won’t respond and who did nothing to stop mass executions? What makes anyone think that he's actually listening and why would he? This is the same "God" that sat idly by and watched 60 people get shot and didn't lift his pinkie and now he's going to listen to your prayers?

Personally, I wouldn’t waste my time talking to him, when you should be talking and consoling students, family members of the victims, friends and meeting with live, human counselors, that are in the flesh and that can actually respond to you and help you. Talking to an invisible man in the sky, who doesn't respond and may or may not exist, isn’t going to help the situation one iota.

This week has been a very tragic one for sure and many people are suffering tremendously, due to the actions of this evil bastard, with no conscience, who butchered so many innocent people and destroyed their promising futures. He ripped apart families and destroyed countless lives.

I understand the need of people to need and want to believe in and turn to “God” or some higher force or power during their time of desperation, need and excruciating pain(I‘ve been there myself), but I wonder if they’ve ever wondered why “God” wasn’t there for them before the tragic events took place?

It just doesn’t make any logical sense at all to me. I know that it isn't popular to ask these questions during such a difficult time, but they must be raised, as many have raised them before and many will raise them in the future and that's why I wrote this post.

What’s funny is that I and many others, specifically ex-Mormons, want to believe in a God or a higher, all-powerful being, but we just can’t find any legitimate reasons to. There are plenty of more reasons to not believe in said God, than to believe in him. Why would he present us with such overwhelming evidence in the negative? Oh yeah, it's a trial of our faith, right? If that's the case, what is this life really; some type of sick game then?

Obviously we all came from somewhere and something created this planet we are living on, but I don’t believe that any of us have any idea who this being or force really is, how we got here, who created us, how we came into existence, or where exactly we are going after this earthly experience. Obviously it has to all be for something, because saying it's all for nothing, is far more illogicial then thinking life has a purpose and that we'll be reunited with our loved ones in the next realm of existence.

I cannot and refuse to believe in the pathetic, evil, racist, violent, slavery and rape promoting, mass murderer of a “Christian God” that is represented in the Bible, that has inspired so much bloodshed and death since the beginning of time.

In fact, why is anyone so desperate, that they need to believe in this horrendous being, as described and defined in the Bible?

For those that claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and to talk to God and that he responds to you in return, just like another human being would, I’d like to ask you four things:

1) What does he look like?
2)What tone of voice does he have?
3)What exactly is he saying to you?
4)Are you sure that the voices in your head are a healthy thing and not just a sign of a more serious issue?

We all have thoughts and ideas in our head, which is our own self and our own conscience, not some voice from on high. I used to believe that the voices I heard were from God, directing me, but I was a Mormon cult member back then and now I realize that when I have thoughts in my mind, IT IS ME, not God. Time to give yourself credit folks for those good ideas and not some invisible God.

It’s pretty scary to me when we have a bunch of people running around obeying mysterious voices in their heads, which are telling them what to do, which they claim is coming from some invisible, all powerful man in the sky, who refuses to physically show himself and hasn‘t been seen for over 2000 years or ever. What am I missing here?

Apparently the voices in my head, that abruptly left when I discovered that Mormonism/all religion is a complete fraud, were due to my cult upbringing and brainwashing from birth, which taught me that God was always talking to me through his Holy Ghost. Organized religion has been created for money and power and completely fucks normal people up and in some cases, turns them into fanatical, irrational nut-jobs that can no longer be a part of normal society or carry on normal conversations, except in their head, with this invisible God, who never stops talking to them.

Even more scary for me, at least here in the USA, is that we don’t even want to elect someone to be the President or most other political offices, if they aren’t a “person of faith.” Somehow, we feel safer having someone in the oval office that relies on the “big, invisible man”, that "talks to God" and hears these mysterious voices in their head. Sadly, I used to count myself among this majority group.

Personally, I’d rather have someone that did what they did because it was the right thing to do, made sense, was logical, morally right, etc, then someone that did or didn’t do things, things because “God told them to.” Holy shit!! I mean what’s scarier…Mitt Romney doing what Hinckley or Monson(that claim to speak for God as his only authorized servants on the entire earth) tells him to do, or Mitt Romney following the voices in his own head, that he attributes to the "Mormon God.”

A lot of people follow the voices in their head, as we were reminded this week with the tragedy of Virginia Tech and look at the horrific results. Dictators, terrorists, mass murders and cult leaders like Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Saddam Hussein, Bin Laden, Hugo Chavez, the Lafferty Brothers, Moses, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, the current Mormon Hierarchy(Gordon B. Hinckley) and many others have either followed or now follow the voices in their head and look at the suffering that has ensued because of it.

Finally, I’d like to once again remind everyone of another thing this tragedy at Virginia Tech reminded me of; Gordon B. Hinckley is a massive fraud and doesn’t represent any God, rather a cult corporation. The Mormon doctrines claim that he, the Prophet, is the only authorized man on the entire planet, that is allowed to speak for and on behalf of God.

This only man on earth, authorized to speak for God, who claims to be a Prophet, Seer and Revelator, that supposedly receives revelations for the whole world, receives nothing.

The night before the Tsunami hit and killed 250,000+ people, he was laughing it up with Larry King and presenting him with his personal genealogy.

He can’t predict or prophesy about any natural disasters, like earthquakes, hurricanes(Katrina) or mass murder rampages, like we saw this week at Virginia Tech and a month or so ago at Trolley Square, right in the backyard of God’s only authorized man on the earth. I’ve asked before and I’ll ask again; what good does this guy do? Prophet, Seer and Revelator? Of What?

In fact, very sadly, 15 year old Kirsten Hinckley, someone directly related to Gordon B. Hinckley, was brutally killed by the psychopath, proving that he can’t even protect his very own family members, let alone Mormon church members or other people of the world. Wake up folks, the guy is a fraud and very well paid for it!! He is the CEO of Mormon fraud and is laughing at all of you(all the way to the bank), that believe he walks and talks with God.

Gordon B. Hinckley can’t predict pedophilia, sexual abuse or rape, even if it’s in the very church that he pretends and claims to lead or done by leaders that “were called of God by the spirit of discernment."(John D. Lee-Seventy) In other words, Gordon B. Hinckley is a lying, fraudulent cult leader that knows nothing more than anybody else.

In fact, in any case where the Mormon cult is accused of sex abuse or crimes; Hinckley, God’s only supposed mouthpiece and CEO on earth, sends out Jesus Christ’s personal lawyers to trash, discredit and re-victimize the victims, to make sure that the image of the Mormon cult isn’t tarnished.

It is shameful behavior and Gordon B. Hinckley is the CEO of this Mormon cult of shame and destruction and responsible for it all, in the name of his God of course, just like Moses. There is no difference between the Pope or Gordon B. Hinckley, except that the Pope actually tries to do some good at some point. In the end, they are both complete frauds, along with their mass murdering God.

I wish the victims and their families from Virginia Tech and all the others around the world, that have suffered tragedy, the very best and you are all in my thoughts constantly. Every day, masses of people are brutally killed, raped and tortured on this earth and the very God that so many people are praying to for comfort, through whatever religion or God they believe in, would be the same all powerful God that is allowing it all to happen, as he sits and watches, in the name of some nonsense called "free agency."

Too bad "free agency" makes this all powerful God completely powerless, while their Satan is running the show. What good is it to be all powerful if you can't ever use your power. Maybe lex Luthor hung some Kryptonite around his neck?

I'll ask everyone again, what I asked at the beginning....

Where is God?!!

Samuel the Utahnite

September Dawn, A Movie About The Mormon's "Mountain Meadows Massacre", Set For Release On May 4, 2007-Should Make Hinckley's Ass A Little tighter!!

September Dawn-Mountain Meadows Massacre
Uploaded by SamueltheUtahnite

Direct Link To Video

The Mountain Meadows massacre was one of the darkest and most senseless, tragic days in Mormon and US history. It was also one of the most deadly terrorist attacks of innocents, on American soil, until the Oklahoma City bombing. This movie "September Dawn" is supposed to tell this story.

At least 120 or more innocent men, women and children, were brutally slaughtered, at the command of Brigham Young, the then Mormon Prophet, Seer, Revelator and God, who is honored today with a university named after him(BYU), where I once attended(which I'm embarrassed to admit now) and a statue in Salt Lake along with many other honors.

Oh yeah and you can also take guided missionary tours of his "Beehive house" and hear all the lies about what a great man he was. Mike and Hyrum from "The Church Is Not True" did a podcast of a tour through the Beehive house and exposed the lies that the missionaries are taught to tell everyone on a daily basis.

Brigham Young knew exactly what was happening in Mountain Meadows that day, because he planned the whole thing and ordered them to trick everybody, gain their trust, disarm them and then kill and slaughter everyone, including any children over the age of 8, because they were no longer innocent, since the Mormon age for baptism is 8 years old.

One little girl that was around 11, was put in the wagon with the younger kids, to watch the slaughter. When they were done killing everyone, including her family, they asked her how old she was, since she was bigger than the other kids. She told them the truth, and they asked her to get out of the wagon and they then shot her point blank in the head, right in front of the other kids.

John D. Lee was the leader of the actual attacks and the main trigger-man, and also the best buddy/right-hand man of Brigham Young(and also a member of Briggies prestigious council of 50), as he was also sealed to Brigham Young in the temple, like a husband and wife would be sealed today. Yeah, they did that back then, trying to make the perfect chain back to Adam. Hmm...when did that revelation change? Are all of the current Apostles and Seventies sealed to each other? Maybe it's just for the "in crowd" and not for the lowly peons and regular members?

Here are some links to John D. Lee's confession, written in his own words:

MORMONISM UNVEILED;
OR
THE LIFE AND CONFESSIONS OF THE LATE MORMON BISHOP,

JOHN D. LEE;(Written by Himself)

Preface

LAST CONFESSION AND STATEMENT OF JOHN D. LEE.
CHAPTER XVIII.

CHAPTER XIX.
CONFESSION CONTINUED AND CONCLUDED, MARCH 16, 1877, SEVEN
DAYS PRIOR TO HIS EXECUTION

Brigham Young of course claimed complete innocence and that he knew nothing about it, but later personally went to the site and tore down the makeshift monument that the US government had put up to honor the victims. Hmm...an innocent man pissed off at a monument honoring the dead victims, but he had nothing to do with it? Yeah, that makes sense!!

Maybe it was the words the Government put on the monument(a wooden cross on which Maj. Carleton inscribed "Vengeance is mine: I will repay, saith the Lord."), about what would happen to the man who had ordered these innocents to be killed. I guess it hit a little too close to home for Brigham Young, the mastermind of Mountain Meadows Massacre and that is why he and his men tore it down and destroyed it.

Maj. Carleton, in his report to Congress, describes the scene at Mountain Meadows:

"women's hair caught in sage bushes, children's bones found in their mothers' arms, and wolves picking at the bones. It was, he wrote, 'a sight which can never be forgotten.'"

So, what did the Mormon Hierarchy do? On April 20 1961, the LDS Church's First Presidency, posthumously reinstated John D. Lee's church membership and "former blessings", meaning temple blessings. In other words, all was forgotten and forgiven and all of those people that he executed, many shot point blank in the head, under the direct order and planning of Brigham Young, meant nothing.

Wait, doesn't the D&C say that murder is the unpardonable sin? What about mass murder? Isn't it just wonderful? Actually no, it isn't, it's F'd up hardcore, just like the Mormon cult and all of you that know the "real truth" and still defend it!!

When Hinckley went to Mountain Meadows on Sept 11, 1999, for the dedication of a rebuilt monument to supposedly bring closure and healing, he said:

"That which we have done here must never be construed as an acknowledgment of the part of the church of any complicity in the occurrences of that fateful day." The line was inserted into his speech on the advice of attorneys for the Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."(The Salt Lake Tribune, March 14, 2000-by Christopher Smith)

That doesn't sound like a contrite, sincere man that wanted forgiveness or that wanted to create healing, does it? The truth is, that the Mormon church will never be able to admit fault in the Mountain Meadows massacre, because A) it would mean that Brigham Young wasn't a Prophet, therefore the church is false and B)can you imagine the cost of the wrongful death suits that would be filed, one after another? Not to mention the PR disaster that would just get worse than it already is.

Hinckley also said:

"All who knew firsthand about what occurred here are long since gone. Let the book of the past be closed. Let peace come into our hearts."

and

"No one can explain what happened in these meadows 142 years ago. We may speculate, but we do not know. We do not understand it. We cannot comprehend it. We can only say that the past is long since gone."

Once again, the Prophet Hinckley pretending to not have a clue about something, that he knows everything about. Amazing how little the Mormon "Prophet, Seer and Revelator" really professes to know, isn't it?

Here's a video of Hinckley contradicting himself and talking about how important the past is, and "to always look to the past" and "how it gives us strength", along with other clips of him then talking about how we should "let the book of the past be closed"(Hmm-I wonder why?) when he spoke at Mountain Meadows in 1999:



Did you notice how emotional he was when talking about the Mormon pioneers and how he showed no emotion when talking about the victims of the Mountain Massacre? So, when it comes to the Mountain Meadows Massacre, or blacks and the Priesthood and their teachings on racism or polygamy, it's all in the past, and they are "little flicks of history", etc, etc, but when it comes to something "faith promoting", we should "always look to the past."

So which is it Hinckley and all you TBMS out there? Should we focus on the past and always look to the past, that always gives us strength, or should we close the book on the past and the little flicks of history? You can't have it both ways!! Either the book is open both ways or shut both ways.

Here is a link to the official website dedicated to the victims of the Mountain Meadows Massacre and their families.

Those believed to have been killed at or near the Mountain Meadows were:

Alden, William Allen, 19
Baker, George W., 27
Baker, Manerva A. Beller, 25
Mary Loivna, 7
Bellen, Melissa Ann, 14
Bellen, David W., 12
Baker, John T.,52
Baker, Able ,19
Beach, John, 21
Cameron, William, 51
Cameron, Martha, 51
Tillman, 24
Isom, 18
Henry, 16
James, 14
Martha, 11
Larkin, 8
William's niece:
Nancy, 12
Deshazo, Allen P., 20
Dunlap, Jesse Jr., 39
Dunlap, Mary Wharton, 39
Ellender, 18
Nancy M., 16
James D., 14
Lucinda, 12
Susannah, 12
Margerette, 11
Mary Ann, 9
Dunlap, Lorenzo Dow, 42
Dunlap, Nancy Wharton, 42
Thomas J., 17
John H.,16
Mary Ann, 13
Talitha Emaline, 11
Nancy, 9
America Jane, 7
Eaton, William M.
Edwards, Silas
Fancher, Alexander, 45
Fancher, Eliza Ingrum, 32
Hampton, 19
William, 17
Mary, 15
Thomas, 14
Martha, 10
Sarah G., 8
Margaret A., 7
Fancher, James Matthew, 25
Fancher, Frances "Fanny" Fulfer
Fancher, Robert, 19
Huff, Saldia Ann Brown
William
Elisha
Two other sons
Jones, John Milum, 32
Jones, Eloah Angeline Tackitt, 27
daughter
Jones, Newton
McEntire, Lawson A.,21
Miller, Josiah (Joseph), 30
Miller, Matilda Cameron, 26
James William, 9
Mitchell, Charles R., 25
Mitchell, Sarah C. Baker, 21
John, infant
Mitchell, Joel D., 23
Prewit, John, 20
Prewit, William, 18
Rush, Milum L., 28
Stallcup, Charles, 25
Tackitt, Cynthia, 49
Marion, 20
Sebron, 18
Matilda, 16
James M., 14
Jones M., 12
Tackitt, Pleasant, 25
Tackitt, Armilda Miller, 22
Wilson, Richard
Wood, Solomon R., 20
Wood, William , 26
Others UNKNOWN

Other names associated with
caravan included:
Basham, (George D.?)
Hamilton, (Thomas ?)
Haydon, (James C.?)
Hudson, (David ?)
Laffoon family
Morton family, (Charles H.?)
Poteet family
Reed, (John Perkins?)
Smith, (Alf?)
Stevenson, (Mordecai?)

I really hope that this movie will help bring the tragedy of Mountain Meadows and who was responsible, to the attention of the world. From this preview, "September Dawn" looks like it will do this and appears to have nothing to do with the fluff piece that was written in the Deseret News in August of 2005.

I don't know if the project changed when they discovered how horrific it really was and who was really behind it, but it appears to be much more than a Titanic like love story. I just hope that this preview is a true reflection of the movie.

Oh, by the way, whatever happened to that official book(using new sources that nobody had ever seen before) the Mormon church was writing 4 years ago, with the help of Richard Turley, Glen Leonard and Ronald Walker, that was supposed to be entitled "Tragedy at Mountain Meadows?" Is it still in progress or just laying in the closet with all the other skeletons?

In any case, the Mountain Meadows Massacre is just another horrific skeleton in the Mormon Hierarchy's closet full of skeletons, that reminds us all, just what this cult really stands for, has always stood for and will always stand for; corruption, lying, deceit, destruction and yes, even brutal murder of innocent men, women and children, in the name of God and blood atonement. Will the Mormon Hierarchy ever take responsibility for any of their sins?

The answer sadly is no, because they answer to no one, but their own fabricated God and Jesus(who are now more interested in buying and building malls and luxury resorts and re-designing downtowns) and there are no checks and balances to hold them accountable.

And that's why they call it a cult folks!!

Samuel the Utahnite