How Much CASH Is The MORmON PRophet Of Fraud Thomas S. Monson & His Gang Of Thugs & Goons Raking In On Just Garments & Temple Clothing Sales Annually?

 

3/7/2011-Here is a new video of the MORmON Temple Ceremony from Big Love(fast forward to about the 4:35 mark if you just want to see the temple ceremony part)..as the last 2 have been deleted by the MORmON CULT HIERARCHY. So I apologize in advance to this person, who will also have this video deleted from their account at some point in the very near future & most likely will have their entire account deleted as they've done to me & many of my friends, multiple, countless times.

Why do they do this? Because they're TERRIFIED of THE TRUTH getting out there exposing their pathetic CULT. Too late for you Mr. Tommy Boy & your 14 DUMB SHITS!! LOL!!

This is the best & most complete video yet though, as it also includes Barb meeting with her church leaders before going through the temple, then going through the temple & then her church court where they ask her about what underwear she's currently wearing(is she wearing her garments?), excommunicate her & call Polygamy a "misguided abomination" & "shameful practice in the modern church" & then use Boyd KKK Packer's classic teaching/words stating "Some things that are true are not very useful."

Barb then classically asks them why they want to lie, hide & cover-up their past history of polygamy. It's a real beauty folks & I'd enjoy it while it lasts, as I don't expect it to be around long, with the 7-10,000 hits I still get monthly on this blog, many still coming directly from church headquarters, at all times of the day, night & morning...including the middle of the night. Enjoying what you're seeing ASSHOLES?!!

I promise some new posts/podcasts are coming soon...just been too busy dealing with life & personally helping people out of the MORmON CULT. My research & studies never end & I can't wait to have more time to expose even more of MORmONISM than I already have, as I have so much to say.Enjoy everyone & thanks for all the comments, Emails & your support!!

I was searching the web today and came across some ex-Mormons having a discussion about this post. They lamented the fact that I didn't include the links to Brigham Young admitting that he hadn't EVER paid his tithing and to future PRophet John Taylor(an ASSpostHOLE at that time) being on the non-tithe payer list. 

Well, over the last 4 years, I've been pretty well known for always including the detailed links and proof to everything I post from MORmON history and doctrines and I dropped the ball on those 2 items...sorry about that guys...I must have been tired!! 

When I wrote it, I knew it was true because I'd just read it in my research; but you guys don't know that and probably haven't read or heard about it and I have now provided the links above and below, so that everyone can easily verify it and know that both statements are indeed 100% true and factual.

Hopefully this will help fuel the conversation, as these are 2 pretty big and important pieces of information, which again proves how dramatically things have changed in MORmONISM(and with their "GOD") over the years.

I encourage everyone reading this to spread it around to as many places as possible.

TBMs and MORmON apologists will of course vehemently deny that any of this ever happened and they'll call me a liar or worse...even though they mentioned and quoted the very book(directly from BYU's website)by E. Jay Bell(regarding something else I'll be exposing soon) that I quoted Brigham Young from, regarding not paying his tithing. I was researching something else and just happened to come upon that suprising statement...so THANK YOU BYU...LOL!!

Besides that, it was said in the MORmON's general conference in 1875...which I haven't found access to yet...but that makes it OFFICIAL!! I have access to records that go back to the 1880 General Conference until now...but not before 1880.

Thanks again guys for pointing this out and feel free to leave a comment or drop me an Email in the future, if I haven't included something in a post that I should have or if you have any questions. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the last time I bought a pair of secret & scared "MAGIC" Mormon garments/underwear, around 4-5 years ago; they were around $12 a pair, as the cost had just gone up. Maybe it was the cost of the type I bought, as I remember they had different prices for different types. I remember when they were around $7.00 a pair but of course that wasn't enough for the money hungry cult leaders/Jesus, who want every cent they can get their grubby hands on!!

If anyone has bought them lately and has a more accurate price range, or can access the LDS website that has all of the different prices; please share the info, so that I can be more accurate. It's too bad that Ebay won't let us sell them, as it would be a fun hobby and we could make a good living...selling Mormon magic underwear on Ebay...LOL!!

I'm guessing with the Salt Lake City, multi-billion dollar mall/downtown construction projects...the cost of garments will be going waaaay up, as someone has to pay for "Jesus'" shiny new malls(big and spacious buildings), right? I'm sure that "Jesus" will be having a very special meeting with Tommy Boy, in the Holy of Holies, regarding the much needed increase of the cost of Jesus' Magic underwear...LOL!!

In any case, if they are say $12 a pair and you have around 3 million active, temple going Saints(could be more or less), that buy say 10 pair a year...that would add up to 360 million dollars a year, minus their cost to make each pair which is what...50 cents or a dollar at most? They pay their workers minimum wage, so it could even be even less than that.

So, in my opinion, I would guess an accurate number would be somewhere between $200-400 million, based on the actual number of active temple goers, the actual cost per pair they buy & how many pair they buy per year. Could even be more than $400 million, which wouldn't surprise me at all...I just know it's in the hundreds of millions, even low-balling it in all of the categories that I just mentioned above.

That's why they want you to buy your garments from them exclusively and why you aren't allowed to make your own garments.(and make sure your cut out and burn the little Masonic marks in them when they wear out, so that you can use them to dust the furniture or wipe your car down, etc...LOL!) Amazing how much power those marks have eh...when there...garments are fully functional...when they're gone...garments are just rags and have lost all of their "MAGIC POWER"...LOL!!

God I was a brainwashed dumb ass to believe all of that bullshit and so is anyone else that does!!

Oh and let's not forget the "money changers" in the back of the temple(ching, ching) that are RENTING the temple clothes for a ridiculous price(what they call "a small cleaning fee"), considering what it actually costs them to wash all the clothes, at the end of the day, in one massive load, in Jesus' sacred and blessed washing machines. I'm sure the washer and dryer were included in the dedicatory prayer, right?("Protect ALL from any devastating influence, destruction, or defacement.")

Hey didn't "Jesus" kick the money changers out of the temple...oops!! THEY'RE BACK...time to return bad-ass "Jesus" and kick them out again...LOL!! I guess now he loves money changers...but we have to also add the daily rental money to the above mentioned profits. I'm sure they make tens of millions on the rental charges, mostly from Utah and all of the brainwashed cultists that reside there.

Even when I was a TBM, I was VERY uncomfortable(as were many of my family members and friends) with a cash register ringing up my temple clothes and costume rental costs and I often wondered how that made sense, knowing what "Jesus" thought of the money changers.

Funny how the cash register bothered me so much, but the death penalties and pantomiming my death(along with and beside my family and friends) by slitting my throat and chest and disemboweling myself, if I ever revealed "THE SECRETS" of the temple; was just fine...man, was I brainwashed!!

I was bothered and disturbed by the DEATH PENALTIES when I first did them(not knowing ANYTHING about them beforehand), but then moved quickly into acceptance, because after all...it was divine revelation while I was in "The Lord's House", that I should be murdered that way, directly from "Jesus" himself, through Joseph Smith and it was the "one and only true church."

In fact, I would deserve it(DEATH) I thought, if I did indeed reveal those SECRET/SACRED things to anyone else, which I promised I'd never do, with the fear and penalty of DEATH.

On top of the garments, let's also not forget the absurd cost of buying the temple ceremony clothes that you play dress up with and also the actual temple dresses and clothes that you wear under the dress-up clothes. It's Halloween baby, every day a MORmON temple is open.

I'd be surprised if the whole garment/temple clothing market of The Corporation Of The President didn't easily top a billion dollars annually! It's funny(in a pathetic way of course) that just that part of the corporation alone, could be its own successful, independent corporation in the real world.

In fact, in some of the poorest countries in the world, like in Africa; they don't even offer clothing rental and those poor people have to BUY their damn temple clothes. Couldn't they just let them use them FOR FUCKING FREE?!!

Of course not, as NOTHING IS FREE IN THE MORmON CULT!!

"They wouldn't appreciate it as much if they were able to use them for free and didn't have to work for it" is what they would say. Yeah, like the MORmON Hierarchy works for all of the money that rolls in, based on fears and threats of eternal separation from everyone they've ever loved?!!

First you have to pay your damn 10% just to get to "Jesus'" temple, then they nickle and dime you once you're worthy(garments) and then shamelessly once again when you get to the temple. It's a threefold hammer...WHAT A RACKET!!

When my Grandma died a few years ago, we went to the official church clothing store to buy her temple dress for her to be buried in(I was still a TBM at that time). They said they could have given her a discount if she was still alive, but since she was now dead...they'd have to charge us full price for the dress!!(It didn't even occur to the lady how offensive that statement was and just came out naturally, like most MORmON BS that they spew)

I believe the regular price was like $75 & they said that they could have sold us the dress for around $45 or something like that if she was still alive and that that was their official policy.

In other words...WE SHOULD HAVE FUCKING LIED!! Once again, the MORmON cult teaches you that lying is the best policy, just like they've done since 1820 until today.

I explained that she WAS DEAD and shouldn't have to pay more in her death, than when she was alive and that it was an absurd and unfair policy!! I asked "if we'd come in to buy the dress when she was on her death bed...would we have gotten the lower price" and her answer was "yes." I was even more furious at that point and I even told her I should have lied then", which she didn't appreciate!!

Then I told her that it was "outrageous that they were going to stick it to my Grandma like that when she was dead, just because of the fact that she was now dead!" I asked "why would you have such an obscene policy like that" and that "it didn't make any sense?" I then asked "is it because you now know you won't make any more money off of her?" I was PISSED!!

I was then, at the point, starting to seriously raise my voice and start to make the lady uncomfortable and cause somewhat of a scene in the otherwise "reverent" clothing store of the MORmON "Jesus."(again I was still TBM, but also very emotional and upset after losing my Grandma and I couldn't believe that "the one TRUE church" was doing this to my Grandma after her death and essentially punishing us for her death.) Where was the love and compassion?!!

It was more about the principle at this point, than the damn $30...kind of like when Bednar said "it was never about the earrings." The difference is that I'm telling THE TRUTH, Bednar was LYING!!

I said things like "I can't believe you're doing this to my Grandma", "are you kidding me", "you should be ashamed of yourself", "this is absurd", etc. She then told me to "please clam down" and relented and said that "even though she wasn't supposed to and could get in big trouble, that she'd go ahead and give it to me for the lower price." Of course she also asked me "to please not tell anybody." I was so FURIOUS and couldn't believe what I'd just experienced and I was having flash backs to the BS that I'd put up with on my mission.

Anyway, the bottom line is that this Mormon cult will admit to gladly PUNISHING and PENALIZING you and your family, EVEN AFTER YOUR DEAD, while trying to squeeze your loved ones for more cash and every last cent they can get. They are cold and heartless!! There is no depth that they will not sink to, in order to make a buck off of you(even after you're DEAD) and like the douche bag Lynn G. Robbins said a few years ago in General Conference:

No bishop, no missionary should ever hesitate or lack the faith to teach the law of tithing TO THE POOR. The sentiment of “They can’t afford to” needs to be replaced with “THEY CAN'T AFFORD NOT TO.”

One of the FIRST THINGS a bishop must do to HELP THE NEEDY is ask them to PAY THEIR TITHING. Like the widow, IF A DESTITUTE FAMILY IS FACED WITH THE DECISION OF PAYING THEIR TITHING OR EATING, THEY SHOULD PAY THEIR TITHING. The bishop can help them with their food and other basic needs until they become self-reliant. (Lynn G. Robbins, “Tithing—a Commandment Even for the Destitute,” Ensign, May 2005, 34)


Lynn G. Robbins, proudly and literally taking food out of children's mouths for "God."

I want EVERYONE to notice(and I'm pretty sure I'm the FIRST person to point this out) is that in the Ensign and on LDS.org, they've added "and other basic needs until they become self-reliant", after he said "the Bishop can help them with their food."

What's amazing to me, is that Lynn G. Robbins was already lying and then I guess Hinckley added another lie to that lie, by knowingly and falsely stating "and other basic needs until they become self-reliant." I guess they felt it was too harsh. But, you've heard the audio and read the "transcript" and you now know THE TRUTH!!

That statement alone by the asshole Lynn G. Robbins, should be enough for any decent human being to leave the church instantly and realize that it's a cult. Who would ask such a thing? When they are literally asking you to give your money to them(without ANY accountability whatsoever as to where it went) and to then literally STARVE your family, including babies, small children, etc...it's A DAMN CULT!!

What type of animal or beast would ask you to do this(it follows their teaching of always putting the church first and your family second)...as they then hypocritically use your money to build $500 million temples that are open "by appointment only", spend over $600 million dollars to bail out the "Jesus/MORmON" owned Beneficial Life, as they fly around the world in private jets, while eating the finest cuisine and being chauffeured around in luxury cars and building multi-billion dollar malls in Salt Lake and a $30 million luxury resort In Laie, Hawaii, etc, etc?!!

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!

Oh, and the last part referring to the Bishop helping, is a complete CROCK OF SHIT too and just ANOTHER LIE, especially when 99% of the countries the cult is in, have NO WELFARE PROGRAM whatsoever. Hell, they don't even help someone here in the U.S.A. that has faithfully payed their tithing for their entire life "until they become self-reliant."

It's all just another lie, as I have a best friend who has faithfully paid his tithing his entire life, just lost his job and was recently REJECTED by his Bishop for financial assistance of any kind.

Even if you get lucky and the Bishop helps you; it isn't until your "self-sufficient", since I have another friend who was told the limit now is 3 months and they're done with you and kick you to the curb. He was told it was the church's new policy and that was before the economic collapse...it's now probably one week or not at all, like my other friend experienced.

The Bishop told him to "have faith" and of course "to continue paying his tithing(in the spirit of Hinckley and Lynn G. Robbins) and that the 'Lord' would bless him." What a fucking insult and slap in the face...ASSHOLES!!

I of course told him to do the RIGHT THING and to stop paying it immediately and take care of his family and that money wasn't going to fall out of the sky. He ended up pulling out money from his 401K(which he didn't want to do because of the penalties and because it was a temporary problem) and he still paid tithing on it(he was too afraid not to and he seriously considers it his fire insurance...FOR REAL) and after 2 months, things were never worse and he went through hell...so now he's actually questioning, thank the Mormon God!!

Let's say that you've payed tithing for 20 years and averaged $4,000/yr. That would be $80,000(not including fast offerings and every other fund you've foolishly donated to) you've faithfully paid to the MORmON cult, no questions asked(even going hungry on occasions as they tell you to do), with absolutely NO accountability in return as to where it went and then, when you desperately need help(BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THAT EXTRA $80,000 THEY ROBBED FROM YOU)...THEY WANT A FULL ACCOUNTABILITY OF WHERE YOU'RE SPENDING EVERY CENT(EXCEPT WHAT YOU'VE GIVEN THEM OF COURSE) AND THEN THEY TELL YOU TO SHUT OFF YOUR CABLE, TAKE THE BUS AND TO GO FUCK YOURSELF!!

Did it ever occur to the bastard cult leaders that you're mainly in the situation you're in, because you've donated 10-15% or more of you income for you entire life, right into the black hole of MORmON Inc? OF COURSE NOT!! Imagine if you'd just saved half of that money or even 25% of that money...you'd have a nice savings account to help you out in a tough time.

What do you get for paying tithing? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but a pass to Joe's house of horrors, where you can dress up like a dumb ass, take orders from Satan and at least in the past(changed in 1990 and 2005)...agree to be killed by various gruesome death penalties and have your naked body fondled and touched right next to your genitals and for women, also on your breasts(which would have caused you to receive formal church punishment if you would've done to your girl/boyfriend, what they did to you in the name of "God" and Joseph Smith)

There really should be a class action lawsuit against the cult for the naked touching, which we didn't know about before it happened. Any Lawyers out there reading this interested?

For those who want to know more about the MORmON temple...please visit my good friends site, that has all of the audio and text of all the MORmON temple ceremonies, including a text comparison between the pre-1990 and post 1990 ceremonies. It shows how they actually GUTTED the temple ceremony and took out massive chunks and made gigantic changes and that it wasn't just "minor changes" as The First Presidency claimed and lied about.

Of course no one can talk about it, so everyone just accepted it and bowed their head and said yes, as trained to do in the temple. This is the same temple ceremony that is supposed to "NEVER CHANGE", EVER, without God punishing his cult. What a fraud eh?!!

Now, all of you non-Mormons out there, including Ex-Mormons, can easily learn all of the bullshit handshakes and what to say when you meet Joseph Smith at the Pearly gates and you'll be able to easily get into heaven, since the handshakes are the most important things to prove to Joseph Smith and the "MORmON GOD", that you're a MORmON...LOL...and you didn't even have to pay them 10% of your income to learn them and didn't have to dress up like a dumb ass!!

The ONLY reason MORmON temples even exist today and have been built at such a rapid pace the last few years...is for generating revenue. They are desperate once again for cash(running 90+ days behind on their bills for Jesus' billion dollar malls), just like the late 1800s, early 1900s and the early 1960s, as history is repeating itself once again, as they've gone on this massive building spree, like drunken lunatics. The world is wising up, more educated regarding MORmONISM and all religions(the Internet has a lot to do with that) and they've already saturated their markets.

In order to enter these "houses of horror", you have to be a full tithe payer, which wasn't even required until 1910.(the paragraph mentioning this, is right under the one I mentioned below) In the 1870s, even Brigham Young admitted that he NEVER paid his tithing and said "that neither himself nor anyone else....had ever paid their tithing as it was revealed." When they created a list in the early 1900s of all of the non-tithe payers, the future PRophet John Taylor was surprisingly on the list.(scroll down to the paragraph that has numbers 29 and 30) The paragraph says:

In early 1900 President Snow asked the Presiding Bishop to prepare a list "of non-tithe payers and about 10,000 names were in the record."29 Snow told the apostles that non-payment of tithing "was worse than the non-observance of the Word of Wisdom" prohibitions against tobacco and alcohol. The time had long since passed when general authorities were exempt from the obligation to pay tithing, and one apostle was shocked to learn that Apostle John W. Taylor's "name is on the Non-Tithing List!"30

In April 1910 the church president announced it was necessary to comply with this greatly reduced law of tithing in order to have temple recommends.31(The Mormon Hierarchy-Extensions of Power-D. MICHAEL QUINN)

By the way, the entire chapter 6 from his book, entitled CHURCH FINANCES, is available for everyone to read for free there and I highly recommend that everyone read it and then go buy the awesome book!!

Michael Quinn is an amazing man and absolutely brilliant when it comes to MORmON history and all things MORmONISM and he has created an amazing work...a masterpiece in that book, which is full of indisputable and 100% verifiable evidence that helps expose THE UGLY TRUTH OF MORmONISM to the world. Quinn's book is the MORmON Hierarchy's biggest nightmare!!

THANK YOU MICHAEL QUINN!!

Hmmm...I wonder why the perfect, unchanging "MORmON Jesus" didn't require tithing to enter the temple until 1910 and then changed it to something they "considered more important than the word of wisdom" and a MUST, in order to enter Joe's cult house of DEATH? If MORmONS didn't require tithing to enter the temple, they'd be no different right now than the reorganized church(The Community of Christ now), because they'd have no money and very few temples.

Notice that they have to use threats and the literal FEAR OF GOD and the literal and eternal separation from your family, friends and loved ones, in order to FORCE you to give them your hard-earned money and to sustain their fat asses, sitting on their thrones in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Like Lynn G. Robbins said in his conference talk, that I shared above, with Gordon B. Hinckley and Thomas S. Monson's proud approval:

"One of the FIRST THINGS a bishop must do to HELP THE NEEDY is ask them to PAY THEIR TITHING."

Why should faithful members have to be accountable for their money when they aren't accountable to them?!!

Aren't they supposed to be setting the example...YEAH RIGHT...DAMN HYPOCRITES...DAMN THIEVES!!

As a side note, as I just eluded to above; that statement by Lynn G. Robbins was never corrected(Hinckley was sitting right behind him and had no problem with anything he said and in fact, had pre-approved it beforehand), stands and is still on LDS.org(it was toned down though in the church news report of the talk to "Destitute families should pay their tithing first and then the bishop can provide food and other basic needs.)

It's truly sickening!!

Mormon Inc. is clearly, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a CORPORATION and a CULT, not a church and I rest my case!!

WAKE UP PEOPLE AND SMELL THE FRAUD!!

Samuel the Utahnite

Henry B Eyring "The Crybaby" And His Best Pal From Their Stanford Days, Quentin L. Cook, New Mormon Apostle, Meet The Press And Shed Some More Tears!

I don't have time right now to write a description, but I will try to do it later on, as I'm going to return to blogging now, after I've been very busy in my personal life and I also took a little break to focus on my YouTube videos, which now total 274, with over 1,200,000 hits and over 20,000 comments since July of 2007, mostly thanks to all of you, who watch the videos and send them to others, who pass them on and on.

Many of you have wondered where I've been and have asked me to please start blogging and podcasting again, which I have been planning to do and I look forward to it, as I've really missed it.

I will be posting many back posts here on my blog, that I started but never had time to finish, like this one. I will be publishing mostly current posts, but please scroll down often, as you'll also find new posts there as well, over the next few weeks.

Take care guys and enjoy "crying Eyring" and his sidekick and college pal "Cook the crook", as they blubber their way through this ridiculous, bullshit press conference, where they act like they think their comedians at times and the Utah press stand in awe of them and kiss their asses up one side and down the other, with mostly one softball question after another.

Now with Hinckley kicking the bucket, we have to wonder all over again who the next Apostle will be and then sit through yet another half-assed press conference.

Richard G. Hinckley anyone? LOL!!

Thanks again everyone for your strong support, even when I'm not on my blog very often and for those that have found me over on YouTube and have supported me there(and you all know who you are) and helped me to expose this evil, vile, MORmON cult and helped me fight against the vile, disgusting and pathetic MORmON apologists...THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!

Samuel the Utahnite

The Missionaries Over At Mormon.Org, Are Getting A Little Upset These Days When Confronted By The "Real Truth." Remember Guys...Slow To Anger!!

I've taken the time over the last week, to confront a couple more missionaries or volunteers, or whatever they hell they are, over at Mormon.Org. The one I just talked to, was a complete asshole and just cut me right off, when I accused him/her of lying, which they were. Here is a link to the other chat I had, in case you missed it.

Gee, wouldn't a representative of Jesus Christ be kinder and more loving and want to see why I thought they were lying and then express to me why they weren't lying, despite all of the evidence showing otherwise? I guess not!! By the way, the name of the person I was talking to was Adrian. Anyone else have a run-in with the friendly Adrian?

How much longer will this charade last(the cat's out of the bag dumb asses), as they must be getting bombarded by ex/anti-Mormons every single day. How many real people are actually going there to talk to them.

It must be the same bullshit day after day, being confronted with the shocking truth, then not answering our questions and telling us to read the Book of Mormon; because if it's true, Joseph Smith was a Prophet, the church is true and nothing we are asking them even matters, which is exactly what they tell me and everyone else that ventures in there.

Anyway, I'll post the 2 transcripts below so that you can all read them. The first one is about Dallin H. Oaks saying that they can't Ever criticize their leaders, even if the criticism is true and I then worked in Mountain Meadows Massacre and his admission that "without a doubt" Mormon leaders committed the slaughter.

The second one is about how they claim they don't condemn other religions, while openly condemning them from the First Vision forward, especially in the Book of Mormon. Adrian actually denied it again, right in the chat...OOPS!!

These guys know they are lying, when the truth is so obvious and clear; but they just think we are all idiots and will easily believe their den of lies and want to join the cult tomorrow.

Also, the Mormon Hierarchy has disabled the cut and paste option that used to be there in the chats, so now, all you have to do, is go up to File and click on Save as, and save it as a text file. You will have to do some editing, but at least we can still post our conversations with these brainwashed Mormons, for all the world to read.

Conversation #1:

Speak With a Missionary-Thank you for taking the time to chat with us and for your interest in the Church. Please know that you are welcome to worship with us any time, request a visit from Mormon missionaries, order a Book of Mormon, or continue to browse our Web site to learn more answers to life's greatest questions.

Addie: Hello! What can I do for you today?

Samuel: Yeah, I was curious to know more about the Mormon faith, after watching the PBS documentary called the Mormons.

Addie: Yes. That was an interesting program. What were some of your questions/concerns?

Samuel: Well, I was wondering if you are ever able to criticize your leaders and if you are punished when you do? They talked about all of the intellectuals that were excommunicated for speaking out and that is very troubling to me. So, are you allowed to criticize your leaders, especially the Apostles or Prophet?

Samuel: From what I've discovered, Dallin H. Oaks is one of your Prophets and he said the following:

Samuel: Sorry, go ahead and then I'll post the quote by Oaks

Samuel: Are you still there? (I'd waited like 5 minutes with no response at all and there was at least a 2 minute gap after almost every question I asked them.)

Addie: We believe that when a prophet speaks he does so by revelation and speaks the word and will of the Lord. The members of our Church sustain our leaders, which means committing to support them in their decisions. Also,

Samuel: So, they can never EVER be wrong? They are perfect and infallible? Aren't they imperfect men, just like any other man? That's what I've always believed, that no one is perfect...

Addie: in that process, they have the opportunity to voice objections and oppositions to those leaders. However, there is a difference between voicing objections and speaking against established doctrine

Addie: Prophets are not perfect.

Samuel: So, you can criticize them publicly, if you feel they are wrong or out of line, without any problems?

Addie: However, when they speak as directed by revelation, which is not everything they say, we believe it is the word of God

Samuel: If Prophets are not perfect, then anyone should be able to criticize them in my opinion, including Mormons themselves, right?

Samuel: How do you or does the world know when they are speaking by revelation or just as common men that make mistakes?

Addie: We are encouraged to pray about their words when they speak. Always, they invite us to know for ourselves and asking the Lord if what they speak is the truth. They never ask us to blindly obey.

Addie: Also, they will usually inform us of their opinions

Addie: For this reason, I personally have never found reason to criticize them

Samuel: So, let's say that they are not speaking by revelation and say something that isn't true? Can you openly criticize them for it with no fear of punishment?

Samuel: So, it's all based on what someone feels, whether it's true or not? What if you feel it's revelation and someone else doesn't?

Samuel: They don't ask you to blindly obey? But what if you pray about what they've said and you feel that it's wrong? Then what? Is that a problem?

Addie: When prophet is speaking by revelation, they make it clear that revelation is the source.

Samuel: Here's my question again; if you feel, after praying, that the Prophet or Apostles are wrong in what they are saying; can you openly criticize them for it without being punished?

Samuel: Do they allow you to speak your mind, even if it's against what they are saying? You said they aren't perfect, therefore they could screw up and make mistakes, teach false things, etc, right?

Addie: Why would you want to be part of the church if you feel that the prophets and apostles are wrong?

Samuel: Well, you earlier admitted that they aren't perfect, therefore they could be wrong. Either they are perfect and infallible or they aren't, right?

Addie: I know, from personal experience that these prophets are men of God. I trust their judgment and accept that they are not perfect. But I believe that I can trust in the counsels that God gives to them.

Samuel: I'm just trying to understand this, I really am. I have a lot of friends that are Mormon and they seem to blindly obey, saying that their leaders can never make a mistake or lead them astray in anyway and that if they try, God will literally remove them, is this true?

Addie: The most important thing that we can do is to seek

Samuel: But you still haven't answered my main question; can you criticize them, ever?

Samuel: even if they are wrong?

Addie: God's guidance through prayer to know if the prophets are acting according to the will of God.

Samuel: By admitting that they are human, they can make mistakes and can you then state openly how you feel about those human mistakes and errors, thus criticizing them?

Samuel: So, you do follow them blindly?

Samuel: Why pray to understand them or know what they are saying is true, if they can't ever teach anything wrong? It seems very redundant to me to pray about something that you already know can't possibly be wrong, ever?

Samuel: Look, here's the quote from Oaks:

Addie: Samuel I'd love to answer your questions, but it's tough to answer four at a Time.

Samuel: "It's wrong to criticize leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true."

Addie: Can I answer them one at a time?

Samuel: 4 at a time? I've been asking you the same exact question over and over, without you being willing to answer it. Again, can you openly criticize leaders of the Mormon church? I'll answer it for you, since you refuse to, and the answer is...no, because Dallin H. Oaks says you can't, even if the criticism is true and that's what troubles me greatly as an investigator and someone trying to learn more about your church.

Addie: I'm glad that you've got sincere desires to learn.

Samuel: I consider myself to be an intellectual and inquisitive person, therefore not being able to ever object to anything these imperfect men say would be hell for me and would take away my freedom of expression and thought.

Addie: One thing that Jesus taught us in Matthew Chapter 6 is that we are not to cast judment on others whether they are prophets or not. We can disagree with views that they have, but criticism is really not necessary; that is a form of judgment

Samuel: I found that comment by Oaks to be so offensive, that I about fell off of my chair. It's like he thinks that he is God or Jesus Christ and cannot ever be criticized, even it the criticism is true. Those are not the words of man who sees himself as imperfect and that's not free agency or freedom at all.

Samuel: Would you ever state Addie that no one should ever criticize you, even if the criticism is true? Do you understand why this troubles me, when earlier you admitted that they aren't perfect, yet they say that they are beyond any criticism? It seems very contradictory to me in every way.

Addie: I understand perfectly. It's alright to express your concern with those whom you are concerned with. But that issue is between you and the person you disagree with. I welcome counsel and constructive criticism, but there isn't a point in pointing out.

Addie: weakness publicly whether prophets or not.

Samuel: Also, when talking about Mountain Meadows Massacre, Dallin H. Oaks said that:

"I have no doubt, on the basis of what I have studied and learned, that Mormons, including local leaders of our church, were prime movers in that terrible episode and participated in the killing."

Samuel: So, if you disagree with the Prophet or Dallin H. Oaks for example, can you go sit down with him and discuss it in private? Do they allow any member to meet with them?

Addie: They are always welcome to letters and other forms of communication.

Samuel: So, can you publicly criticize the Prophet with "constructive criticism?"

Addie: Can I ask, what do you understand a prophet to be?

Samuel: So, let me ask you this; Dallin H. Oaks openly admits that Mormon leaders killed all of those poor people at Mountain Meadows, but you aren't allowed to criticize them for the horrible murders they committed? According to Dallin H. Oaks, even if they murder innocent men, women and children, as he has now admitted to, you CAN'T criticize them...that's insane!

Samuel: He also hopes that the Lord will forgive these murderous Mormon leaders, when I believe murder is the unforgivable and unpardonable.

Samuel: I believe a Prophet is a man of God, who speaks and acts for God

Addie: Samuel, I don't feel that you're being very sincere about listening to theanswers to your questions. Those acts of those men who committed that horrible act were not endorsed by the prophet and when he heard of their acts he was very disappointed...

Samuel: Disappointed? 120 people were slaughtered by Mormon leadership and he was disappointed? I just don't know how to overcome these major concerns, as all my friends are trying to get me to take the missionary discussions and get baptized. That's why I'm here today, to see if I can resolve these concerns with you...

Addie: with them and they were excommunicated.

Addie: The real question you need to ask is to God.

Addie: If these men speak and act for God is there reason to criticize?

Samuel: So why did Oaks say that Mormon leaders were the "prime movers" and "participated in the killings?"

Addie: He was speaking of the local leaders, not of the prophets (so like a bishop). We do not consider such men to be prophets.

Samuel: So, it's okay to publicly criticize a Bishop then? Only John D. Lee was executed or excommunicated for those crimes and there were over 100 men committing the murderers.

Addie: Do you believe that God can answer prayers?

Samuel: Okay, let me ask you this, as I've been researching this Mountain Meadows tragedy....was John D. Lee guilty of murdering these poor people or not?

Samuel:I don't believe God has to answer questions that are already answered by the facts and truth, nor do I have to ask him if they answers are already obvious and clear.

Addie: I understand your concerns, but I know that all the questions you have will be answered by a much simpler question. "Is the Book of Mormon true?"

Samuel: What?

Samuel: Mountain Meadows Massacre is discussed in the Book of Mormon?

Samuel: I had no idea...

Samuel: What part?

Addie: If the Book of Mormon is true then the church is true and so are the prophets. That act was not an act of the Church, but of misguided men, and as such really doesn't effect a person's testimony of the doctrines of the church.

Samuel: I discovered that John D. Lee was also sealed to Brigham Young too, which is strange. Back then, men sealed themselves to each other in the Mormon temple?

Addie: If you find out that the Book of MOrmon is true you will still understand that this was a horrible act that should never have taken place, but you will also know that it was not an act of God, and that the church, which tried to stop it, is of God.

Addie: I would invite you to pray and ask god of if the Book of Mormon is true with a sincere heart. Will you do that?

Samuel: So, if the Book of Mormon is true, then the Mormon church is perfect and true and has never, ever made any mistakes and their leaders are infallible and can never, ever be criticized(even if the criticism is true), and they have never made any mistakes?

Samuel: Was John D. Lee a murderer?

Addie: Samuel, will you pray with a sincere heart?

Samuel: Answer my last question please

Samuel: I'm only asking you about John D. Lee, because I don't know if you are aware or not, that in 1961, the Mormon Hierarchy fully restored his blessings and forgave him for all of those awful and tragic murders he committed, of men women, children, even babies...and that also shocks me and troubles my soul deeply. Why would they do this?

Addie: I really don't know enough about that event to give you a difinitive answer, but I do know that this church is Jesus Christ's. If you will pray with a sincere heart and faith, you will find the same.

Addie: I hope you have a great evening.

Samuel: John D. Lee was the adopted son of Brigham Young, through their sealing together in the Salt Lake City temple and he was executed for his crime of mass murder and they've now forgiven him. Why?

Samuel: Praying won't answer these questions and you never told me if Mountain Meadows is discussed in the Book of Mormon, as you seemed to indicate.

Samuel: Do you not care at all about facts or evidence?

Samuel: So, is the Mormon church the one and only true church on earth?

Addie: I care about the spirit of God. I know the Book of Mormon is true and as such, I know that the Church of Jesus Christ is the only true and living church that is guided by God himself on the earth. If you simply find that out the other questions won't...matter anymore.

Samuel: Is my church really an abomination, with false doctrines and corrupt professors, as Joseph Smith clearly indicated. You are the only people on earth that have the truth? Everyone else is guided by Satan?

Addie: Please pray. I know you'll get an answer.

Samuel: The other questions won't matter anymore? Are you serious?

Addie then cut me off and abruptly ended the conversation, refusing to answer any of my questions, insisting that the only thing that mattered, was the Book of Mormon and that "If you simply find that out that it's true, then the other questions won't matter anymore."

Now, those are the true fruits of Mormonism folks. Facts, truth, logic and reality mean nothing and all that matters is that you believe the Book of Mormon is true, end of story, if it's true, it's all true, Joseph Smith was a Prophet and the church is true, and nothing else matters.

Conversation #2:

Speak With a Missionary-Thank you for taking the time to chat with us and for your interest in the Church. Please know that you are welcome to worship with us any time, request a visit from Mormon missionaries, order a Book of Mormon, or continue to browse our Web site to learn more answers to life's greatest questions.

Referral Support: Hello, My name is Adrian how can I help you?

Mike: Hey Adrian, where are you at?

Mike: Are you an actual missionary from the MTC?

Referral Support: were are in Utah

Mike: I figured that, but are you a student, a missionary, or what? I've heard that
the folks on here are from the MTC or BYU?

Referral Support: I am a member of the Church.

Mike: Uh yeah, I figured that too...I mean what are the odds that the Mormon church would put somebody on here that wasn't even a Mormon? So, I guess you can't tell me what you are, if you're a missionary, student or whatever, which is fine.

Mike: I just wondered where I was talking to, if you were in Salt lake, Provo, etc, but obviously you aren't allowed to share that information with the public.Well, hopefully you can help me out anyway and will be more forthcoming on my other questions...

Referral Support: you are correct, I am not to share that kind of information.

Referral Support: I will do my best to answer yor questions

Mike: Sounds a little paranoid to me, since it was just a general question, but okay, hopefully they'll allow you to speak freely regarding other things.

Mike: I've always heard how secret the Mormon church is, especially regarding the temple, and I guess it's true.

Referral Support: Ok mike , I dont want to give you information about myself that is all

Mike: Anyway, I've been Catholic all my life and since moving to Utah, I've become interested in learning more about Mormons

Mike: Yeah, because I might track you down, right? LOL

Mike: whatever man

Mike: But I've read in Mormon Doctrine, which was written by one of your Apostles and also I've been reading in the book of Mormon

Referral Support: I dont want. it is simple , I am not goint to ask about your personal information.

Referral Support: ok

Mike: and it looks like you guys have really issues with Catholics or any other religion

Referral Support: we dont

Mike: Looks like we got off on a very bad foot

Mike: You don't?

Referral Support: I was catholic

Referral Support: all my family is catholic, I love them

(For some reason at this point, we were suddenly disconnected. I quickly logged back in and happened to get Adrian again and so we continued on with out conversation for a little while longer. Adrian had no idea what happened and it certainly wasn't anything I did. It must have been that Mormon God, intervening to help his servant and representative...LOL.)

Referral Support: Hi mike, I dont know what happend

Referral Support: sorry we got disconected

Mike: Yeah, me either...it just disconnected...I thought you hung up on me

Referral Support: no I didnt

Referral Support: ok , so do you have some questions

Referral Support: ?

Mike: Anyway, like I was saying, it looks to me like you guys have serious issues with Catholics or any other religion

Mike: Maybe you can help me understand somethings

Referral Support: okay

Mike: First of all, do you believe that your church is "the one and only true church" on the planet earth?

Referral Support: yes I do.

Mike: I believe the First Vision of Joseph Smith says that Jesus said, that all other churches are abominations with corrupt professors(preachers) and wrong doctrines, or something like that...

Referral Support: they are not guided by God.

Mike: So, if you have "the one and only truth", what does that say about my religion and the religions of most of my friends and family? Why do we have to become Mormon?

Mike: So, you are telling me that my religion is not guided by God? By what authority do you tell me this?

Mike: You realize that's offensive, right?

Referral Support: well, that is what I believe (No apologies of course)

Referral Support: dont take offence on that

Mike: It's funny how Mormons and your leaders always say that they never cut down any other religion...but you clearly do, by saying that you have the only truth on earth and that all the rest are abominations, corrupt and wrong.

Mike: Yeah, but your church believes that everyone needs to be a Mormon, in this life or the next, right? That's why you baptize dead people.

Mike: So, if Mormonism is "the one and only true church" on earth, then all the other religions are indeed false, right?

Referral Support: We are the only true Church, I know that. we have prophets and apostles that recieve revelation from God. All other Churches are full of great people, great feelings and amazing teachings , but lack authority to act in God's name

Mike: Do you believe that Satan runs my church and that it's of the Devil?

Mike: You believe this why? (This was an answer to their last comment)

Referral Support: no, I dont think so.

Mike: Aren't you just making the same claim that most religions make?

Referral Support: well you tell me what do you believe?

Mike: You believe in the Book of Mormon, right? Joseph said it's the most correct book on earth or something like that didn't he?

Referral Support: what do you believe about the LDS church and your church?

Mike: I don't believe that you have to belong to one particular church in order to be saved...I believe it's based on the kind of person you are and how you treat others, not whose church you call home.
Referral Support: well you said you were catholic, and that is not what they believe

Mike: Well, we are talking about what you believe and preach, not what I believe and in the Catholic church, we don't go around openly condemning other churches, calling them the church of the devil and abominations, whores of all the earth and Mothers of Harlots and we try to be kind to everyone.

Referral Support: but what is your doctrine?

Mike: So, you tell me what my doctrine is, since you are so well informed about it

Referral Support: you certanly believe exactly what you are criticizing from the LDS church

Mike: That unless you are a Catholic, you're screwed? That's what I believe?

Referral Support: the catholic Church to be the only true church.

Mike: Well, at least we don't preach that Mormons and all other churches are the church of Satan and the whore of all the earth

Referral Support: we dont prach about anybody else, We actually dont preach about others at all. (Can you believe that shit? I can't believe they actually said this? Now tell me that they didn't know they were outright lying when they made this statement!!)

Mike: Still there?(There was a very long pause before their last comment and this comment of mine, as they both popped up at the same time.) You believe in the Book of Mormon, don't you? Well, it greatly insults me and any other religion out there, yet your church claims that we are all evil

Mike: Saying you don't preach about other religions is an outright lie and you know it

Referral Support: Mike , is not a lie, and please remember what your religion claims before you criticize the LDS church for what it claims

1 Nephi 14:10.....Behold there are save two churches only, one is the church of the lamb of God and the other is the church of the DEVIL, wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the MOTHER OF ABOMINATIONS; and she is the WHORE of all the earth.

1 Nephi 13:34...wherefore, after I have visited them in judgment, and smitten them by the hand of the Gentiles, and after the Gentiles do stumble exceedingly, because of the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that ABOMINABLE church, which is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS, saith the Lamb--I will be merciful unto the Gentiles in that day, insomuch that I will bring forth unto them, in mine own power, much of my gospel, which shall be plain and precious, saith the Lamb.

Referral Support: Take care

Mike: Where are you going?!! I wasn't done...

==========

That was the abrupt end of the chat. I guess they can't handle "the real truth", can they? Hypocritical jackasses!!

I look forward to everyone's comments on these chats.

Samuel the Utahnite

Mormon Church, Foundation At Odds Over Mountain Meadows Monument...What A Disgrace!!

I just want to say thanks to Demon of Kolob for posting this article in my comments section and on his blog. I hadn't seen the article until he posted it. I think this article is 100% clear in showing the world how little respect the Mormon Hierarchy, is treating the families of the victims of Mountain Meadows Massacre with.

Here is the entire article from the Salt Lake Tribune, for those that haven't read it yet:

Mormon church, foundation at odds over Mountain Meadows monument
The Associated Press

Descendants of a 120-member Arkansas immigrant party say their plea for federal stewardship of the Mountain Meadows mass grave site has been rejected by LDS Church.

Phil Bolinger and Scott Fancher of the Arkansas-based Mountain Meadows Monument Foundation say they got the news June 6 in a telephone call from Elder Marlin Jensen, who oversees the church history department.

"He told us that President (Gordon B.) Hinckley had turned us down. He doesn't think it's in the best interests of the church to allow federal stewardship in the meadows," said Bolinger, the foundation president who is related to 30 of those killed. "That really bit me bad."

Jensen declined an interview, but confirmed through spokeswoman Kim Farah that the church will not pursue federal stewardship of the site. A similar request was also rejected in 1999.

Descendants want the site in the hands of a neutral third party because they believe the institutional church is complicit in the murders.

"It's not right for the people who had complicity to the killings to be the grave owner," said Bolinger, who discussed the issue with Jensen on April 25 in Salt Lake City.

"I asked him, 'How you do you think the Kennedy family would feel if the Lee Harvey Oswald family had control of the Kennedy tomb?'"

History hangs the Sept. 11, 1857, event on southern Utah Mormon leaders and a small band of Paiute Indians, leaving the culpability of then-church president Brigham Young up for debate. An upcoming book from church historians takes the same position.

Headed to California, the wagon train led by Capt. Alexander Fancher and John Baker arrived in the Utah territory at the same time the federal government was mounting pressure on the Mormon church for its practice of polygamy and disregard for federal oversight.

They camped first near Salt Lake City and then headed south to the meadow, a well-known stopover on the old Spanish Trail. The immigrants were attacked and spent a week engaged in gun skirmishes before local Mormon Elder John D. Lee rode in on horseback with a white flag to negotiate their rescue.

Persuaded to walk single-file and unarmed from the valley, the immigrants were shot at close range, stabbed or beaten to death. Their bodies were not buried.

Seventeen children were spared, all of them under age six-young enough, some said, not to remember or speak of what they saw. The youngsters were adopted by local families and later returned to their relatives in Arkansas.

Lee was tried, convicted and executed for the massacre 20 years later and is the only person ever held responsible.

Today, the Mountain Meadows monument site is a 2,500-acre parcel in a rolling scrub-pine and sagebrush valley about 35 miles northwest of St. George.

The land is a patchwork of public and private holdings, some of which was passed down through families from pioneer ancestors.

There are four known mass grave sites and two memorials-the rock pyramid known as the Carelton Cairn on the valley floor and a memorial wall on Dan Sill Hill, which overlooks the valley and is inscribed with the known names of victims from the 29 different families on the wagon train.

The monument is already on the National Park Service's Register of Historic Places, but the designation doesn't guarantee public access or public input before construction or other site changes, foundation attorney Scott Fancher said.

Foundation members believe a higher designation, such as national monument status, would better protect the interests of all and salve the wounds of many Fancher party descendants, said Bolinger, of Hindsville, Ark.

"Federal stewardship of this grave site ... that's all it would take to put this to bed," he said.

Federal oversight might also have prevented the Aug. 3, 1999, maintenance work on the cairn when a church crew accidentally unearthed the remains of at least 28 men, women and children. A forensic evaluation was begun, but cut short on an order from Utah's then-Gov. Mike Leavitt, a descendant of some who participated in the massacre.

At a dedication ceremony of the rebuilt cairn that September, Hinckley said the church carries a moral responsibility to remember the victims, but fell short of acknowledging church complicity to the crime.

Mormon church leaders are committed to appropriately preserving the Mountain Meadows site, Farah said.

"The church has owned the monument site at Mountain Meadows for many years. The property is open to the public and considerable time and resources are allocated to ensure that the property is well-maintained, open to the public and that those who perished there are appropriately remembered," she said.

Farah also confirmed what Washington County recorder's office records show - over the past few months, the church has increased its holdings in the meadow. Since March at least two families have deeded their property over to the church.

"The church intends to administer and maintain this property in like manner, thereby preserving it from either residential or commercial development," said Farah. (Until Jesus Christ supposedly gives them a revelation to build a mall or a temple that is.)

Bolinger said the foundation, one of three descendant groups, shared concerns that residential development in fast-growing Washington County would damage the site. But he's rankled by the church's acquisition of more land and says he'll continue to push for federal stewardship.

"It's the highest honor we could pay these people," Bolinger said.
==========

It truly is sickening and hard for me to even fathom!! It is despicable and revolting how little regard Hinckley and co. have for these families and their pain and loss. Their is no love, no compassion and no concern whatsoever. But then again, I guess that's how criminals act, right?

So, I guess Marlin K. Jensen really is the new asshole in charge and official Mormon Spokesman eh? Whether it's "The Mormon" documentary or homosexuals on Nightline or now Mountain Meadows Massacre...he's your man and go-to guy and a complete jackass loser I might add.

They are purposely causing these people more pain and putting them through a living hell, just like they do to anyone that ever accuses a Bishop, Stake President or any leader or member of sexual abuse.

They sic Jesus' Lawyers on them, call them liars and re-victimize them all over again, as they try to discredit the person by attacking every aspect of their life, accusing them of false things they never even did and blaming them for what happened.(Just like they did to Galatians brother, when he was fighting for custody of HIS child, which was literally kidnapped from him).

When found guilty, as they often are, because they are indeed guilty, the Mormon church(Jesus Christ) then appeals with everything they've got, re-victimizing them yet again, with no mercy...how Christlike!!

In most cases, they know damn well that the Bishop, leader or member did what he's accused of, but go forward, at all costs, defending him and the church, to protect it's "precious reputation." As the Bishop's handbook of instructions says over and over; that's their number one priority, to protect the reputation of the Mormon cult, even ranking apostates as more of a threat or danger than predators. WTF?!!

Their Jesus Christ must be so proud of them, as this is revelation directly from him to do this and they are just being obedient, right? Kind of like banning blacks from the Priesthood and cursing them as the "seed of Cain"...right? According to "OFFICIAL" Mormon doctrine, Hinckley is THE ONLY MAN ON EARTH, that can speak for and on behalf of God...so yes, he's off the hook and just obeying his wonderful, loving Mormon God of make believe.

Here are some quotes by current Apostles, regarding how important it is to protect the church's reputation at any cost:

"My duty as a member of the Council of the Twelve is to protect what is most unique about the LDS church......Everything may be sacrificed in order to maintain the integrity of those essential facts. Thus, if Mormon Enigma reveals information that is detrimental to the reputation of Joseph Smith, then it is necessary to try to limit its influence and that of its authors."-(Apostle Dallin Oaks, footnote 28, Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith: Psychobiography and the Book of Mormon, Introduction p. xliii)

“You seminary teachers and some of you institute and BYU men will be teaching the history of the Church this school year. This is an unparalleled opportunity in the lives of your students to increase their faith and testimony of the divinity of this work. Your objective should be that they will see the hand of the Lord in every hour and every moment of the Church from its beginning till now.”

“Church history can be so interesting and so inspiring as to be a very powerful tool indeed for building faith. If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a faith destroyer.”

“There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not.”

“Some things that are true are not very useful.”

“That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith — particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith — places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities. ... Do not spread disease germs!"- (Boyd K. Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect", 1981, BYU Studies, Vol. 21, No. 3, pp. 259-271)

"Indeed, in some instances, the merciful companion to truth is silence. Some truths are best left unsaid."

"Any who are tempted to rake through the annals of history, to use truth unrighteously, or to dig up “facts” with the intent to defame or destroy, should hearken to this warning of scripture:

“The righteousness of God [is] revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.” (Rom. 1:17-18.)

"I repeat: 'The wrath of God is … against all … who hold the truth in unrighteousness.'"

"To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter against the Lord and his anointed, weigh carefully your action in light of this sacred scripture:"

“These dissenters, having the same instruction and the same information … yea, having been instructed in the same knowledge of the Lord, nevertheless, it is strange to relate, not long after their dissensions they became more hardened and impenitent, and … wicked, … entirely forgetting the Lord their God.” (Alma 47:36.)

"We must realize that we are at war. The war began before the world was and will continue. The forces of the adversary are extant upon the earth. All of our virtuous motives, if transmitted only by inertia and timidity, are no match for the resolute wickedness of those who oppose us."- (Russell M. Nelson, “Truth—and More,” Ensign, Jan. 1986, page 69)

Now, I posted Dallin H. Oaks' arrogant and outlandish comments from "The Mormons" PBS documentary the other day(I can't get his arrogant, pompous ass, condescending smirk out of my mind); about not being able to EVER criticize Mormon Leaders, even if the criticism is true, and I wasn't aware that he had a history of making such comments and was only reconfirming what he'd said countless times in the past.

Here are some of those other times:

"It is one thing to depreciate a person who exercises corporate power or even government power. It is quite another thing to criticize or depreciate a person for the performance of an office to which he or she has been called of God. It does not matter that the criticism is true."

"As Elder George F. Richards, President of the Council of the Twelve, said in a conference address in April 1947, 'when we say anything bad about the leaders of the Church, whether true or false, we tend to impair their influence and their usefulness and are thus working against the Lord and his cause.' ... The Holy Ghost will not guide or confirm criticism of the Lord's anointed, or of Church leaders, local or general. This reality should be part of the spiritual evaluation that LDS readers and viewers apply to those things written about our history and those who made it." -( Dallin H. Oaks, "Reading Church History," CES Doctrine and Covenants Symposium, Brigham Young University, 16 Aug. 1985, page 25. also see Dallin H. Oaks, "Elder Decries Criticism of LDS Leaders," quoted in The Salt Lake Tribune, Sunday August 18, 1985, p. 2B)

"Truth surely exists as an absolute, but our use of truth should be disciplined by other values. ... When truth is constrained by other virtues, the outcome is not falsehood but silence for a season. As the scriptures say, there is “a time to keep silence, and a time to speak.”

"Does the commandment to avoid faultfinding and evil speaking apply to Church members’ destructive personal criticism of Church leaders? Of course it does. It applies to criticism of all Church leaders—local or general, male or female. In our relations with all of our Church leaders, we should follow the Apostle Paul’s direction: “Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father.” (1 Tim. 5:1.)

"Government or corporate officials, who are elected directly or indirectly or appointed by majority vote, must expect that their performance will be subject to critical and public evaluations by their constituents. That is part of the process of informing those who have the right and power of selection or removal. The same is true of popularly elected officers in professional, community, and other private organizations."

"A different principle applies in our Church, where the selection of leaders is based on revelation, subject to the sustaining vote of the membership. In our system of Church government, evil speaking and criticism of leaders by members is always negative. Whether the criticism is true or not, as Elder George F. Richards explained, it tends to impair the leaders’ influence and usefulness, thus working against the Lord and his cause."

"Public debate—the means of resolving differences in a democratic government—is not appropriate in our Church government. We are all subject to the authority of the called and sustained servants of the Lord. They and we are all governed by the direction of the Spirit of the Lord, and that Spirit only functions in an atmosphere of unity. That is why personal differences about Church doctrine or procedure need to be worked out privately." - Apostle Dallin H. Oaks, “Criticism,” Ensign, Feb. 1987, page 68

Notice that the quote from George F. Richards, which Oaks is so proud of, includes LOCAL or general leaders. I've taken some heat lately, for saying that Oaks is saying that we can't criticize the "LOCAL LEADERS" that he admits committed the Mountain Meadows Massacre. TBMS or pathetic Mormon apologists, are saying that he only meant the highest level of leadership like Apostles or the Prophet.

Now we have complete clarity on the issue, from Oaks' very own words, so you Mormon apologists can go screw yourselves with your bullshit excuses and false interpretations of exactly what he was saying. He said exactly what he meant and meant exactly what he said; that you can't criticize ANY MORMON LEADER, AT ANY LEVEL, even those that he has no doubt massacred all those men, women and children at Mountain Meadows.

Like he says above: "Public debate—the means of resolving differences in a democratic government—is not appropriate in our Church government."

To Oaks and all the other GAs; it is wrong to criticize any level of Mormon leadership, be it a Bishop, Stake President or the Prophet himself, because they were called by divine revelation, directly from the Mormon God, CASE CLOSED!!

This blind loyalty and following, even to the literally giving of your life for the Mormon cult, is also confirmed in the Mormon temple ordinances:

"And as Jesus Christ has laid down his life for the redemption of mankind, so we should covenant to sacrifice all that we possess, even our own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the Kingdom of God."

"All arise. Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of you solemnly covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this alter that you will observe and keep the Law of Sacrifice, as contained in the Old and New Testament, as it has been explained to you.

Each of you bow your head and say 'yes.'"

Before 1990, in the spirit of Brigham Young's "blood atonement", all members that went through the temple, including myself and a lot of my family members and many of my friends, had to take death oaths, literally acting out and pantomiming their own deaths, together as a group in unison. Isn't that cult like? Nah...not at all!!

Here are those death oaths:

Death Oath #1:

ELOHIM: "All arise." (All patrons stand.)

ELOHIM: "Each of you make the sign of the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, by bringing your right arm to the square, the palm of the hand to the front, the fingers together, and the thumb extended. This is the sign. Now, repeat in your mind after me the words of the covenant, at the same time representing the execution of the penalty."(The Execution of the Penalty is represented by placing the thumb under the left ear, the palm of the hand down, and by drawing the thumb quickly across the throat to the right ear, and dropping the hand to the side.)

"I ________, think of the new name, covenant before God, angels and these witnesses that I will never reveal the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name and sign, and penalty. Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken."
(Patrons perform the action as the Officiator guides them.)
"That will do." (Patrons sit down.)

Death Oath #2:

PETER: "The sign is made by bringing the right hand in front of you, with the hand in cupping shape, the right arm forming a square, and the left arm being raised to the square. This is the sign. (The officiator demonstrates.) The Execution of the Penalty is represented by placing the right hand on the left breast, drawing the hand quickly across the body, and dropping the hands to the sides. I will now explain the covenant and obligation of secrecy which are associated with this token, its name, and sign, and penalty, and which you will be required to take upon yourselves."

PETER: "All arise. (All Patrons stand.) Each of you make the sign of the Second Token of the Aaronic priesthood by bringing the right hand in front of you, with the hand in cupping shape, the right arm forming a square, and the left arm being raised to the square. This is the sign."

"Now, repeat in your mind after me the words of the covenant, at the same time representing the Executing of the Penalty."

"I, _________, think of the first given name, solemnly covenant, before God, angels, and these witnesses that I will never reveal the second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name, and sign, and penalty. Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken."
(Patrons perform the action as the Officiator guides them.)
"That will do." (All patrons sit down.)

Death Oath #3:

PETER: "All arise. (All patrons stand.) Each of you make the sign of the First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood or Sign of the Nail by bringing the left hand in front of you with the hand in cupping shape, the left arm forming a square; also by bringing the right hand forward, the palm down, the fingers close together, the thumb extended, and by placing the thumb over the left hip. This is the sign."

"Now repeat in your mind after me the words of the covenant, at the same time representing the Execution of the Penalty(The Execution of the penalty is represented by drawing the thumb quickly across the body, and dropping the hands to the sides):"

"I solemnly covenant in the name of the Son that I will never reveal the First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood or Sign of the Nail, with its accompanying name,and sign and penalty. Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken."(Patrons perform the action as the Officiator guides them.)

"That will do." (All patrons sit down.)

You guys think these are bad; check out what the penalties were before the 1930s:

...Should we do so, we agree that our throats be cut from ear to ear and our tongues torn out by their roots."

ADAM: "All bow your heads and say Yes."

TEMPLE PATRONS: "Yes." (All patrons sit down.)

"...Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

"All bow your heads and say yes."

TEMPLE PATRONS: "Yes." (All patrons sit down.)

"...Should we do so, we agree that our bodies be cut asunder in the midst and all our bowels gush out."

"All bow your heads and say yes."

TEMPLE PATRONS: "Yes." (All patrons sit down.)

I'd also like to put to bed, for good, the "is the temple ceremony SECRET or SACRED(as all TBMS and Mormon apologists claim)? In 1984, the following appeared in the temple ceremony that should answer this question:

ELOHIM: We will now give unto you the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood with its accompanying name, sign, and penalty. Before doing this, however, we desire to impress upon your minds the sacred character of the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name, sign, and penalty, as well as that of all the other tokens of the Holy Priesthood, with their names, signs, and penalties, which you will receive in the temple this day. They are most sacred, and are guarded by solemn covenants and obligations of secrecy to the effect that under no condition, even at the peril of your life, will you ever divulge them, except at a certain place that will be shown you hereafter. The representation of the execution of the penalties indicates different ways in which life may be taken.(Does that sound like the penalties aren't literal to you, as TBMS and Mormon apologists also claim?)

One question that everyone should be asking themselves is this: if the Mormon Hierarchy had absolutely nothing to do with this horrific massacre at Mountain Meadows and they have no idea what happened there in Mountain Meadows on September 11, 1857, as current Mormon Prophet Gordon Bozo Hinckley claims; why are they so desperate to hang onto this land and not only keep the land they already have, but continue to expand their land holdings in that area. WHY?!!

If they were completely innocent in this matter, had nothing to do with it as Hinckley claims; they would turn this land over in 2 seconds....or should I say anyone with any human decency would do that. Gee, maybe they plan to one day build a mall on top of it or maybe a temple or a Stake Center...why not?

They'd probably have some big ceremony to dig up the bodies and move them somewhere else, to make room for their mall, or building or housing development. They'd spin it as how sensitive and kind they were to do this and that they cared so much, that they spent all that sacred money of Jesus Christ, to move the bodies of people that they didn't even kill. They would want everyone to pat them on the back and sadly, TBMS would do just that and rejoice and agree with everything they said and did, singing "We Thank Thee O God For A Prophet."

The Hierarchy would of course have their perpetual video camera there, to film a 2 hour special to play in betweens sessions of the next General Conference. They'd have the camera man go around and ask people what they thought of their kind gesture and only play the positive responses from die-hard TBMS in their 2 hour "we are wonderful" bullshit propaganda show.

I'm sure they'd also mix in plenty of Marlin K. Jensen, Daniel C. Peterson and Ken Verdoia, the new 3 headed Mormon apologist monster; to tell the world how wonderful it was that God's servants, would do such a magnificent thing and how much they loved these poor, innocent men, women and children, that the Mormon leaders butchered and slaughtered, without a doubt, as admitted to by Dallin H. Oaks.

They already dug up 28 bodies when building their bullshit, cover-our-ass(we just did it out of the blue, because we're really, super nice and feel bad the Indians or anti-Mormons killed your relatives) monument in 1999. As Hinckley says, "let the book of the past be closed." Why? I think we should let the book be wide open!!

But I guess that's easy to say for Hinckley, when you are the one trying desperately to cover up a mass murder that former Mormon leaders committed and celebrated. Their culpability might just affect the ol' "we're the one and only true church on the face of the earth" statement. Brigham Young angrily tearing down the monument is also absolute proof of his culpability in the whole thing. Why would he tear down a monument to the 120+ innocent men, women and children that were massacred?

In fact, even if Brigham Young didn't personally order the massacre, being the infallible, can't ever lead you astray Prophet, Seer and Revelator, that they all claim to be; he should have at least known about it from his latest conversation with Jesus Christ, right? Oh, it didn't come up in the conversation? Oh, okay, I guess it was meant to be and other things were more important, like blacks are the "seed of Cain" and should be executed and how to stick a javelin through your cheating wife and how to deal with and kill those evil, anti-Christ apostates.

The Mormon Hierarchy past and present, have no regard for those that died that dreadful day and have no regard for the families of the victims now. As I've mentioned, Dallin H. Oaks now admits, "without a doubt", that local leaders and Mormons committed the massacre and I wonder who the local leaders answered to...maybe Brigham Young? Ya think?!! Figure it out TBMS, as it's not difficult to connect the dots if you even have half a braincell functioning. Even the most brainwashed, deluded, TBM Mormon should be able to put this one together.

Anyway, I found this article to be both revealing and shocking and damn I'm glad it's out there, so that everyone can see what evil bastards the Mormon Hierarchy really and truly are and always have been. These are difficult times for the brainwashed TBMS in denial, who have been lied to since birth or conversion and especially the Mormon Apologists, like Daniel C. Peterson and Van Hale, who make a living making up pathetic, bullshit excuses for every vile teaching or doctrine they've ever taught and every dark sin and atrocity that they have committed, as if none of it ever really happened.

They bank on the fact that the world, specifically the Mormon members, are just a bunch of brainwashed dumb asses, who follow like little sheep and believe every word they say. Sadly, in many cases, they are right when it comes to the average Mormon, due to the deep indoctrination and brainwashing since birth. I'm just glad that I was able to break my death chains or darkness and brainwashing and see the light.

There is blood, that is literally on the hands of the past and current Mormon Hierarchy, along with their multitude of skeletons. How embarrassing it must be, to have to publicly defend these assholes to the world, as if none of it is true or ever happened. You couldn't pay me enough to defend these vile thugs, that masquerade as "servants of God", and sacrifice my integrity and reputation. Apparently some people can be easily bought off, as they have literally sold their souls to the Mormon Hierarchy.

Those that defend the Mormon Hierarchy, after having the truth and facts, are pathetic and a complete disgrace to all mankind and humanity.

As always, I look forward to your comments.

Samuel the Utahnite