Sunday, October 07, 2007

Mormon Hierarchy Have First Online Train Wreck...I Mean News Conference, With Religion Writers Only. What An Embarrassment!!




Back on October 2 of this past week, the desperate, Mormon cult Hierarchy, planned their first "Online News Conference", which I consider to be a massive train wreck, full of lies, outright deceptions, half-truths and double talk, you know, the normal modus operandi for the corrupt, lying Mormon Hierarchy and their payed pawns/PR and spokes people, that they parade in front of the camera to do their dirty work for them, when they get tired of lying and need a little break.


It's hard for me to watch this utter bullshit and believe that they're actually pretending and declaring that it's "the truth" and that they're just deceiving the world the way they are, despite so many of us in "the real world" knowing "the real truth." They actually think that the world is so damn, stupid and it is their arrogance and stupidity, that will eventually be their downfall and already is, in reality.

My guess is that they must be trying to reach out to the clueless and uneducated, since they can't possibly be trying to reach the educated, Internet connected people, can they? Well, I guess that's why they call it arrogance, because they actually think they can fool even the educated people of the world, who correctly believe that Mormonism is for fools and just another cult, a la David Koresh, Jim Jones, etc.

Anyway, I want to give a big shout out and thanks to Truthseeker for posting these videos, so that we can all watch them here in Mormon Truth and then dissect them and tell the everyone out there "the real truth", if they aren't aware of it already.

Intelligent people do occasionally get caught up in Mormonism and many are born into the Mormon cult, like many of us were; so maybe this will help them to realize that truth, reality and facts are more important than emotions and burning bosoms, which is really ALL that Mormonism has, presents and brings to the table. They really don't want anyone to go beyond the eye candy and surface, because once you get past that, you'll soon discover that it's rotten to the core.

This video is nothing but superficial bullshit, by two paid PR people, who couldn't care less about the truth. They are just doing and saying what the Mormon cult Hierarchy pays and tells them to do. It is my opinion that these online press conference and attempts to reach out only to the media, will fail miserably, like every other plan they've tried. I guess this is all part of "Truth Restored", which is their desperate plan to blitz the world through every avaialable type of media.

I wonder how those test markets for Jesus are going? Like Ballard and his thugs said, "if it doesn't work and we have to go back to the Quorum of the 12 and tell them that we have failed...", that they're basically screwed and have no more ideas. Of course they really don't answer to anybody, and are all in it together, since Scott and Ballard are Apostles and of course Richard Hinckley is Gordon's son. What would they do...fire them?!! Give me a break!!
So enjoy and as always, your comments are welcome.

Samuel the Utahnite

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77 Comments:

At Monday, October 08, 2007 2:54:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Aside from all your silly conspiracy theories (which are themselves very entertaining), the idea that all "Internet connected" people are "educated" was also good for a laugh. Wouldn't it be wonderful if being able to plug your computer into a phone jack were all it took to be "educated"? I can tell you don't spend too much time around people with PhDs, Utahnite.

 
At Monday, October 08, 2007 11:49:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lie , Lie and Lie some more it is the Mormon way.

 
At Tuesday, October 09, 2007 5:41:00 PM, Blogger Elder Joseph said...

I watched that PR stuff ,its an utter nonsense and blatant lies ... How on earth are they allowed to carry on this way ?

The didn't answer anything .The whole thing is total rubbish .

Man they get you mad !! I'm not surprised exmormons are angry !

That Truth Restored blitz will come to nothing . We can find the truth on the Internet and it showed at the conference this time ..

all is well! all is well !

 
At Tuesday, October 09, 2007 5:47:00 PM, Blogger Elder Joseph said...

.........on that Truth Restored campaign video Ballard said that Ward members should do more to make Investigators feel welcome, ( blame them )because he gets letters from Investigators who went to church and were not welcomed ??? What a lie How are investigators going to know to write to Ballard after a first visit to church .Its sheer rubbish and blatant lying to members and no surprise, its called Lying for The Lord , Joseph Smith started it all off and the tradition continues !

I've written twice to Greg Dodge and have been ingored twice .Thats the reality of this church ..

 
At Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:49:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The press conference was nothing speicla. just what any church woukld do, basically put their best foot forward.

I do not think it is an honest church, but precious few churches are.

My opinion is that the hierarchy of any church knows it is b.s. but having experienced the LDS cult for the time tht I did, I do think it is worse than most.

Probably the polygs are worse, maybe the Moonies, maybe Jim Jones. The LDS lies make it a repugnant organisation to me, but many LDS people eat up this type of conference and believe it.

Everybody to his own. I am just glad I am not a part of this organisation. For those who are in it and love it, good for them.

 
At Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:01:00 PM, Anonymous I feel sorry for you people said...

"Elder Joseph said...

I'm not surprised exmormons are angry !"

They're angry because they know the truth...that they are damned for doing what they've done and people like this base an entire religion on the actions of a few. By that same thought process, we can establish that all minorities are criminals, all white people hate minorities, all germans are nazis, all Irish people are drunks...and so on.

 
At Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:20:00 PM, Anonymous You're welcome said...

Don't worry Utahnite, I'll put your name on the prayer roll at the temple.

 
At Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:12:00 AM, Blogger Elder Joseph said...

To 'I feel sorry for you people'? whoever you are

What are you talking about ? Ex Mormons are angry at the church leaders falsely claiming to be inspired of God who teach lies and deception and not at the average church members who are just victims themselves ..

Your point is totally invalid and typical of A deluded mopologist.

 
At Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:14:00 AM, Blogger Elder Joseph said...

To 'you're welcome' .. whoever you are

What makes you think you are even worthy to be in the temple ??

 
At Thursday, October 11, 2007 3:03:00 PM, Anonymous Samuel the Utahnite said...

Aside from all your silly conspiracy theories (which are themselves very entertaining), the idea that all "Internet connected" people are "educated" was also good for a laugh. Wouldn't it be wonderful if being able to plug your computer into a phone jack were all it took to be "educated"? I can tell you don't spend too much time around people with PhDs, Utahnite.

Monday, October 08, 2007 2:54:00 AM


Hey anon, welcome back...long time no hear from. But it's good to see that your as dumb as you've always been and that nothing there has changed.

Of course you didn't comprehend one word I said, like normal. Where did I say, word for word, explicitly, that "all 'Internet connected' people are 'educated'", as you claim I did?

What I actually said, since you're obviously illiterate, was "My guess is that they must be trying to reach out to the clueless and uneducated, since they can't possibly be trying to reach the educated, Internet connected people, can they?"

I was talking about two different groups of people; the "educated people" and those that are "Internet connected", and in many cases, most educated people are indeed "Internet connected", but not always. There are also many "Internet connected people", that become educated on the their choice of subject, like so many of us ex-Mormons have done with Mormonism, because of the vast resources, that are readily available on the Internet.

But, No where did I ever say, what you claim I said; that EVERY SINGLE person that has the Internet, is educated, did I? I'll await your apology, but I certainly won't hold my breath, as I've come to realize that arrogant, Mormon "Gods-in-embryo", who think they have the "ONLY TRUTH" on earth, rarely, if EVER, apologize, because they don't believe they are ever wrong. They believe the Mormon, Holy, Casper the friendly ghost is guiding them, in everything they do and everywhere they go.

Anyway, I'm glad your misinterpreting of my words gave you a good laugh and I guess it's true what they say; Simple things amuse simple minds eh?

Viva Los Mormon CULTISTS!!

You're last paragraph really made me laugh though:

"I can tell you don't spend too much time around people with PhDs, Utahnite."

Oh really? Do you personally know me, my family and friends or are just once again pretending to be an authority on a subject you know NOTHING about, which would be ME?!! Well, actually I do, as I have quite a few friends and family that have PHDs and other degrees and we talk regularly and the majority of them aren't Mormon by the way. One thing that I can tell about you though; is that you spend way, WAAAAAY too much time around other brainwashed, indoctrinated, Mormon cultists and that you’re brain is fried to a crisp...annoymous!!

Have a great one, and pantomime(for old times sake, since I had to do it) your own death(use the thumb under the left ear, drawing it across your throat to the right ear, since this one works best and will kill you quicker) bow your head and say yes and oh yeah, will you put my name on the temple prayer list, so that they will pray that I won’t be so evil and offensive to the “Lord’s One And Only True Cult?” LOL!! PAY LAY ALE!!

I can’t wait for your typical, pathetic, Mormon cult response!! By the way, why do you hang out here anyway, with us evil disease germs and anti-Christs? Maybe deep down, you know you’re living a lie, inside of a fraudulent cult? I know I wouldn’t have hung out here when I was a TBM, so I’m just curious, why our evil natures excite you so much and suck you in, time and time again. Maybe I should go find some rapists or serial killers to hang out with and chat with, after all, I’ve been told that I’m worse then they are now and in fact, even worse than a terrorist and that I work directly for Satan and punch his time clock every single day...LOL!!

Samuel

 
At Friday, October 12, 2007 10:54:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From observing these comments and discussions it is evident that not all people on this web are educated. I don't wish to start an argument but I feel that the persons on this site need a little contradiction. I am a Mormon and as I was reading your comments on my religion I truly could not believe that you would say such things about us. Your being an ex-mormon does not make you an expert on our religion as you think you are, the reason i say that is not because you said it but by posting on the internet under a site called "Mormon Truth" betrays that you think yourself a good source of truth. Your feelings are that of anger towards people that have done nothing to you. If you hate us so much leave us alone. You have already seperated yourself so why bother further? We are not a cult, and that video that you had posted about missionary work did not say what you interpreted it to say. You like to twist truth to suit your anger. The things you have said are ridiculus with no truth in them. Yet of course you don't respond well to critisism or correction. Well good luck to you, I hope you find happiness in the spirit of contention. Most likely I wont be returning since this is not a place that contains information accurate to events and beliefs that I research. Farewell until we perchance meet again. Have a good day, and God bless you.

 
At Friday, October 12, 2007 1:25:00 PM, Blogger I Nephi 3:7 said...

First, would you please stop insulting everyone who opposes you? It's not only childish but gives the impression that you are desperate.

Next, you might get more 'followers' if you said why what the General Authorities said was 'BS' and why they are all 'idiots', 'frauds', and 'hypocrite'(s), why what they said wasn't true, and essentially explain what makes you think that way instead of just mocking, deriding, and ending up looking foolish when people actually contest these things.

I will currently overlook your blatant and disrespectful treatment of sacred things, like the Keys of the General Authorities, of the Prophets, and of other Holy things, since I will most likely forget myself and lose my temper. However, I will continue to dispute other things pertaining to this blog and the forward and twisted ways in which it has been used.
In the video about Elder Russell M. Ballard, you twisted and mocked everything said, and added much which was not even hinted at.

About not knowing when we were dead-- If we were dead, and were aware of it, then that would almost automatically prove that the Mormon Church is true, and that we had to be baptized right away because if that much is true, what about the rest? If that were to happen, well, out the window goes being converted on faith.
Mormons are taught not to fear death, because it means going home, in the true sense of the word.

Therefore, it does not matter how many die for the Gospel- after all, in the bible, the martyrs were some of the most revered.

Your comment about the 'Mormon babies'-- all babies cry, Mormon babies are still babies, and actually are not really Mormons because they have not been baptized into the Church because it is believed to be a great evil among the Mormons ( see Moroni chapter ). The mothers probably didn't want to miss out on what was said, or it would have been extremely inconvenient around to get up and leave (at least, more inconvenient than staying)

The 'description' you wrote of the audio was shamefully tainted with your anti-Mormon views and you twisted everything said, which bespeaks a desperation for people to listen and adhere to your views. You would be better advised to simply state your opinion instead of mocking, insulting, twisting, and disregarding much. Besides, it doesn’t need a translation- he was speaking in English, as I recall.

About the vision of Wilford Woodruff- when you think about it, compared to the people in the world to be taught and the dead to be readied for baptism, and then the time in which we have to accomplish that, time is indeed very short. Yes, they are probably still hastening to get the work done. I think you would get more consistent viewers if you stopped making fun of the religion, esp. Joseph Smith's death, as a martyr.
"I guess the ALL powerful Mormon God, couldn't just snap his fingers and have the work done eh?"
1) He is all-powerful; don't you know the religion you so mockingly deride?
2) He could, but that would defeat the purpose of the entire thing, wouldn't it? Like in a math class, the teacher asks you a question, not because they don't know it, but because they want you to learn from it.

"Can you guys believe this BS?!!"- Actually, the only thing I cannot believe is how you seemingly cannot adhere to the counsel of the religion you so clearly were once a part of. If you are an Ex-Mormon, as you seem to be, then at some point, you must have believed it to be true, perhaps even known it to be true. What changed? Why did you leave the fold? Why do you hate them with such consuming bitterness? I suppose it would be fruitless to hope for an answer.

"Anyway, Ballard is an idiot and therefore the PERFECT candidate to move into the First Presidency, to compliment the other two buffoons Thomas S. Monson and Gordon B. Hinckley." How are they idiots? Eh? Answer me that. If you are going to say that they are idiots for thinking they belong to the one true church, well, then is the Pope an idiot for thinking Catholicism is true? How about the different branches of Protestants?
Then, are they idiots because they are supposed ‘hypocrites’? How are they hypocrites? Give me a few instances, where things actually happened and not just your personal interpretation.
If you think that the Church is subject to corruption and bribery, you are far mistaken- we are a religion, not a political group.

"Now, the PERFECT choice for Apostle, would of course be Richard B. Hinckley, but the NEPOTISM, might terrify Gordon B. Hinckley, just like it did when he called him to be a Seventy and is therefore a long shot at best. I'm sure Hinckley would just love to slip him in before he kicked it and hey, if that's what the Mormon God wants, that's what he'll get and who is anyone to argue with King Hinckley, right?"
Just as aforesaid, the Church is not subject to corruption or bribery, nor even nepotism. You are just looking at every possible and conceivable reason to hate us, and taint our reputation as much as possible, aren't you?

Again, about Joseph Smith: “Well, the conference just started and they had a commercial for Deseret Book, advertising some 14 part video series on Joseph Smith.One lady said that "he was the most Christ-like man she's ever known or read about" and then some dumbass added that "Joseph Smith was the most loving and tender-hearted man that ever walked the face of the earth”, or something along those lines. What a pathetic joke, as I already feel like puking and the General Conference hasn't even started!!" What about that makes you think it was a 'pathetic joke'? Either you have an extremely twisted sense of humor, or you are, again, just looking for something to make fun of. How could you possibly know what he was like? How about we leave describing Joseph Smith to people who actually knew him, okay?

Why were you even watching General Conference? Were you just watching so that, instead of really listening and learning, you could find something to make fun of? Were you planning of making fun of Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin's near collapse, saying something like 'He must have misspoken and the "all-powerful Mormon God" must have been mad at him'?!? Somehow, I don’t have trouble believing that of you.
They say that those who mock and are cruel to others expose their greatest weakness- insecurity. Are you really so insecure that you must do everything in your power to deride and jeer those who have done nothing to you?

Want another example of your twisted humor? Even if you don’t, here goes, another direct copy-paste exhibition: "Well, the Hinckster just announced that Quentin L. (LaMar) Cook, is the new Apostle and that Henry B. Eyring(who was my second choice behind Ballard) is the new member of the First Presidency, because he cries a lot and is very emotional...LOL!! He'll be able to fire up those old bosoms and sob like a baby, for The Lord. I can't wait to hear him talk this weekend, as I'm sure the tears will flow freely, and he'll be SO HUMBLED, etc...LOL!!" Oh, I suppose that you have never cried in your life, never been moved beyond words, moved to tears, touched, inspired, inflamed, on fire, overwrought, or whatever you want to call it, even as a Mormon. Must you so callously and cruelly drill into every possible crack of the human character?

“Part of what I have to say regarding Eyring, is infuriating and the other part is hilarious, as you'll all soon see. It just proves that they TRULY have no "spirit of discernment" whatsoever, even when EVIL, DISEASE GERM, full of darkness, anti-Mormon APOSTATES like myself, are right next to them...LMAO!! You would have thought the Holy Ghost would have whispered to him, but to no avail, as is normal with these frauds of the “Mormon God."” that... almost leaves me speechless. It’s like you’re attempting to resort to blackmail or something preposterously stooped like that. WHAT MAKES YOU SO SURE THAT THEY ARE FRAUDS?? Eh? Just because you disagree? The Spirit of Contention is not welcomed of the Lord-- See Proverbs 13:10, 18:2-8, 26:21, 1 Cor. 11:16, (I just used the Bible since you would probably just profess the Book of Mormon was falsehoods- etc.)

"Truth is that they're all hypocrites, but we just have to catch them being a hypocrite, at the right time, in the right place, which I did with Mr. Crybaby Henry B. Eyring." WOULD YOU STOP WITH THE HYPOCRITE THING!!! PROVE IT, AND NOT JUST FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW!!! Give us a real example of hypocrisy, something big enough to warrant actual attention as something other than the normal mortal flaws, and maybe someone with a mind might listen to you.
If you really want to dispute the truth of the Church and not just bandy insults about like a kid with a big sword, I suggest you go to www.townhall.com or the Mormon apologetics site, www.shields-research.org I am sure they will satisfy your want for contentious debate.

Thank you for bringing up this discussion, deepest apologies if I offended, and may the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob watch over you.

I would appreciate it if you would try to refrain from just insulting my intellect and actually address the issues raised.

I will be back to further dispute the teachings of this site—I only go now because I am tired and hungry. Farewell!

 
At Friday, October 12, 2007 2:20:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

would you please stop assuming you know everything about the situations involved in the multiple happenstances aforesaid in your 'daily updates'... it is extremely annoying and angering when, right off the bat, i can shoot down about half of your accusations, and upon brief further thought, the rest of your precious tower of anti-mormon cards comes crashing down. please, you need a new source of information, one that is made up of more than insults, lies, and opinions. please, get a life that involves something other than desperate scheming.

 
At Friday, October 12, 2007 2:27:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"This will be a daily log on the happenings of the Mormon Church. I will share my opinions and viewpoints without holding back. The Mormon Church is a fraud and I will be exposing them on a daily basis. They can run and cover up but they can't hide from the "REAL TRUTH!!" Have no fear, the truth is here!!"
that was pathetic.
What you should have put, if you werebeing truthful:
'This will be a log of some of the happenings in the Mormon Church that I can twist to sound bad and fraudful. I will share my over-used swear-words and insults and twisted opinions and warped viewpoints of hatred and bitterness, mockery and derision without holding back. I hate the Church and will be twisting things to make it look like they are a fraud and acting like I know what is going on. I'll try and post some clever sounding phrases and eighth-truths because I am bitter and hateful and am trying to sound cool. Have No Fear!! The Real Fraud Is Here!!'

seriously, dude, get a life.

 
At Sunday, October 14, 2007 1:14:00 PM, Blogger Interested said...

Sooo..the 14 year-old who drags herself out of bed to attend seminary at 6:30 in the morning is learning about the sermon on the mount? I don't think so. More likely learning about that scoundrel Joseph Smith.

 
At Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:00:00 AM, Blogger Al Jordan said...

To the Anon who wrote:

"Your being an ex-mormon does not make you an expert on our religion".

I couldn't help but chuckle at that.

Your being a Mormon does not make you an expert on the religion either.

Some good, honest research into the church's sketchy (at best) past would do you some good. If you think you're being taught truth at church, or seminary, or gerneral conference...you're mistaken.

Don't get mad at Samuel for presenting the facts (and yes, maybe some opinions as well) that church leaders insist on keeping from you. At least he has the balls to tell it like it is. LDS leaders have been proven to be liars time and time again.

 
At Wednesday, October 17, 2007 6:14:00 PM, Blogger I Nephi 3:7 said...

actually, I am MUCH more an expert on Mormonism because a) i study the religion b) i state FACTS not INSULTS or OPINIONS .

"LDS leaders have been proven to be liars time and time again" oh, really? prove it, without opinions, without insults, using real ACCURATE facts. don't worry, I'll wait for you.

"Some good, honest research into the church's sketchy (at best) past would do you some good. If you think you're being taught truth at church, or seminary, or gerneral conference...you're mistaken."
'sketchy'? as aforesaid, please show EVIDENCE instead of simply posting your OPINION. some background info would be very nice.
"At least he has the balls to tell it like it is. "
yes, I am sure in his mind, he is telling how it is. However, how it is to him, and how there is evidence are two entirely different things.
and by the way, I don't have balls. SOME Mormon defenders ARE female.

 
At Wednesday, October 17, 2007 6:19:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

PEOPLE!!! HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE TO POST THIS!!
STATE TRUTH!! GIVE EXAMPLES!!
ENOUGH WITH JUST THE OPINIONS!!!
e.g.: "The LDS lies make it a repugnant organisation to me, but many LDS people eat up this type of conference and believe it."
would you PLEASE state an EXAMPLE instead of just typing in an OPINION!!!

e.g: "

 
At Wednesday, October 17, 2007 6:20:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

true, you did say "to me", but the point remains!!

 
At Wednesday, October 17, 2007 6:24:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

like the previous anonymous, the opinions are getting very annoying. please, everyone, just state facts to argue your part. the opinions and lies are getting old.

another e.g. "Lying for The Lord , Joseph Smith started it all off and the tradition continues !"
first off, where did he get the socalled 'title' for that, and what makes him think they are lying, and what makes him think 'the tradition continues'...
FACTS people!
FACT:1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5. Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. "
see dictionary.reference.com and type in fact. first set of definitions.

defined as "

 
At Wednesday, October 17, 2007 6:32:00 PM, Blogger I Nephi 3:7 said...

and yes, al jordon, I know it was not addressed to me, however, as the person who was typing it was my sister, and she knows even more about it than I, (which is why she is not bothering with this site since it cannot even back up its opinions) so I felt that i was justified in answering.

 
At Wednesday, October 17, 2007 6:36:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Don't get mad at Samuel for presenting the facts (and yes, maybe some opinions as well) "

I HAVE YET TO SEE OR HEAR A SINGLE FACT THAT HAS NOT BEEN TWISTED, MOCKED DERIDINGLY WITH NO CAUSE, OR HAS SIMPLY NOT BEEN FACT


please... GROW UP!!

 
At Wednesday, October 17, 2007 9:18:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You want a fact? Here's a fact! And it comes straight out of approved mormon materials...

FACT: Brigham Young was recorded as saying in the Journal of Discourses that the black race would never have the priesthood. God would NEVER allow the black man to hold the priesthood. (I paraphrase)

FACT: The church granted worthy black male members the priesthood in 1977.

FACT: Brigham Young was highly racist and his "prophesy" about the blacks never getting the priesthood obviously was false.

 
At Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:14:00 AM, Blogger Al Jordan said...

Wow, it's a regular think-tank in here. (I hope you caught my sarcasm there.)

Samuel has done a great job of presenting facts on this blog. I'm going to spend three months rehashing everything he's already pointed out.

The problem as I see it is this: Facts are meaningless to True Believing Mormons. Anything that clashes with their "testimony" or skewed version of reality is brushed aside as either a lie or (gasp!) the workings of Satan.

Puh-leeze. Can we all just mature a little bit and stop believing in fairy tales?

Joseph Smith was a liar and a con-man. Gordon B. Hinckley has also been caught lying (even if it's "for the lord" it's still lying and it's still wrong - I don't care who you are.)

Samuel once recommended the book "The Mormon Murders" which I just barely finished reading last week. EXCELLENT read. EVERY MORMON OWES IT TO HIM/HERSELF TO READ THIS BOOK!

As they say on Reading Rainbow: "Don't take my word for it...check it out for yourself."

 
At Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:17:00 AM, Blogger Al Jordan said...

Correction:

I'm NOT going to spend three months rehashing everything Samuel's already pointed out.

The typo monster must have gotten to me - or maybe it was Satan. Or perhaps Santa Claus. Or a cookie-making elf who lives in a tree somewhere.

 
At Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:39:00 PM, Blogger Elder Joseph said...

I Nephi 3:7

You said

"LDS leaders have been proven to be liars time and time again" oh, really? prove it, without opinions, without insults, using real ACCURATE facts. don't worry, I'll wait for you."

Joseph smith first

"Be humble and patient in all circumstances of life; we shall then triumph more gloriously. What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.
I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers. I labored with these apostates myself until I was out of all manner of patience; and then I sent my brother Hyrum, whom they virtually kicked out of doors."

HE WAS LYING .....He had at least 33 wives including 11 already maried ones ...

TIMES AND SEASONS.CITY OF NAUVOO ,THURSDAY, SEPT. 1, 1842.

PERSECUTION OF THE PROPHETS.

Inasmuch as the public mind has been unjustly abused through the fallacy of Dr. Bennett's letters, we make an extract on the subject of marriage, showing the rule of the church on this important matter. The extract is from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and is the only rule allowed by the church.

"All legal contracts of marriage made before a person is baptized into this church, should be held sacred and fulfilled. Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again. It is not right to persuade a woman to be baptized contrary to the will of her husband neither is it lawful to influence her to leave her husband."

LIARS THEY WERE PRACTICING POLYGAMY

Times and Seasons, dated March 15, 1844, (Vol.5, No.6, p.474)

Hyrum Smith, Joseph Smith's brother and Assistant President of the church, wrote:

To the brethren of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, living on China Creek, in Hancock County, Greeting: Whereas brother Richard Hewitt has called on me to-day, to know my views concerning some doctrines that are preached in your place, and states to me that some of your elders say, that a man having a certain priesthood, may have as many wives as he pleases, and that doctrine is taught here: I say unto you that that man teaches false doctrine, for there is no such doctrine taught here; neither is there any such thing practiced here, and any man that is found teaching privately or publicly any such doctrine, is culpable, and will stand a chance to be brought before the High Council, and lose his license and membership also: therefore he had better beware what he is about. [emphasis added]

The Truth:

At the time he wrote this, Hyrum Smith had married at least five wives polygamously, most within the previous year (he was converted to the secret polygamy doctrine in 1843). His polygamous wives were Mercy R. Fielding, Catherine Phillips, Lydia Dibble, Louisa Sanger, a woman named Perry and another woman named Derbot. (listed in D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power [Vol. 1], Salt Lake City 1994, pp. 583-584)



Times and Seasons, vol. 6, pg. 894 (May 1, 1845)

The Latter-day Saints are charged by their enemies, with the blackest crimes. Treason, murder, theft, polygamy, and adultery, are among the many crimes laid to their charge.-The press reiterates and gives publicity to these charges. Under these circumstances, it is but right, that they should be heard in their defence [defense]. I shall, therefore, in this communication, briefly examine and refute a few of the charges, for it would need a legion of writers to answer all the lies told about us.

Most of the stories against the Mormons have been propagated by apostates and traitors, (who have generally been cut off from the church for their crimes.) They publish their lies, and straightway they are believed, and hawked about as awful disclosures, and received by community with trembling and holy horror. Sidney Rigdon, I see by the papers, has made an exposition of Mormonism, charging Joseph Smith and the Mormons with polygamy, &c. It does not require a very sagacious mind to fathom Mr. Rigdon's motive for so doing. Soon after the murder of the Smiths, he declared in a pvblic [public] address in Nauvoo that Joseph Smith died approved of God-that the Latter-day Saints were a blessed people, &c. His tone is now changed, and why? Because he sought to be presiding elder, and on account of his corruption, was rejected. On the 10th of September, last, he was tried before the church and excommunicated as a schismatic. If he knew such enormities to exist among the Mormons, why did he call them a blessed people, and endeavor to place himself at the head of their church? Mr. Rigdon's spiritual wife system was never known till it was hatched by John C. Bennett who was cut off from the church for seduction.

As to the charge of polygamy, I will quote from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, which is the subscribed faith of the church and is strictly enforced. Article Marriage, sec. 91, par. 4, says, "Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have BUT ONE WIFE, and one woman but one husband except in case of death when either is at liberty to marry again." Sec. 13, par. 7. Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart and shall cleave unto her and NONE ELSE." In ancient days the church was troubled with traitors, and always will be till God cleanses the earth, and restores the government of his Son. Paul says he was in perils among false brethren; again he says, "know this that, in the last days perilous times shall come, for men shall be TRAITORS, FALSE ACCUSERS, INCONTINENT, fierce despiser of those that are good." No wonder then that apostates rage, or that the fnlness [fullness] of truth revealed again should bring a storm of persecution.

LIARS AGAIN



In a public debate with Protestant ministers at Boulogne-sur-Mer, France, in 1850, John Taylor (then an apostle, later to become the third president of the church), said:

We are accused here of polygamy, and actions the most indelicate, obscene, and disgusting, such that none but a corrupt and depraved heart could have contrived. These things are too outrageous to admit of belief; therefore... I shall content myself to reading our views of chastity and marriage, from a work published by us, containing some of the articles of our Faith. "Doctrine and Covenants," page 330, .... "we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband." (Three Nights' Public Discussion..., published by John Taylor, Liverpool 1850, photocopy in Sharon Banister, For Any Latter-day Saint, Fort Worth 1988, p. 289)

At this time John Talylor had 11 wives in addition to his first .

LOTS OF LYING !

 
At Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:22:00 PM, Blogger I Nephi 3:7 said...

"that a man having a certain priesthood, may have as many wives as he pleases, and that doctrine is taught here: I say unto you that that man teaches false doctrine, for there is no such doctrine taught here; neither is there any such thing practiced here, and any man that is found teaching privately or publicly any such doctrine, is culpable, and will stand a chance to be brought before the High Council, and lose his license and membership also: therefore he had better beware what he is about."
One could only take more than one wife IF THEY HAD THE MEANS TO SUPPORT THE MULTIPlE WIVES. it was for the support of the women, so that less might go hungry, be left behind, etc.
also, they used polygamy because there were so many unmarried/widowed women who needed means to cross the plains.
In Isaiah chapter 3, Isaiah prophesies of the many abominations and punishments of the people. In chapter 4, it says, "And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach." which more or less means polygamy. that chapter also talks about how Zion and her daughters will be redeemed. Many people try to group the aforesaid verse into the previous chapter, therefore making it a sin. However, it is not in that chapter so therefore it really can't be used agianst us. (sorry, I seem to be using 'therefore' a lot!)

"we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband." there are many interpretations of that verse, such as the wives of the household should be one (not in number, but united), or that a man should be true to his wife, and she to him, (so, technically, if he had two wives, as long as he wasn't cheating on either one, he was fine.)
Now, I could also bring into this debate the classic old 'multiply and replenish the earth' line, but i don't think it will be necessary.
"know this that, in the last days perilous times shall come, for men shall be TRAITORS, FALSE ACCUSERS, INCONTINENT, fierce despiser of those that are good." that quote could be used from either point of view, for I could say that the ExMormons were the accusers, etc. and you just said that WE were the accusers, etc. so i don't think that one could be used effectively in this case.

Anon, please post exactly where you found "And it comes straight out of approved mormon materials...
FACT: Brigham Young was recorded as saying in the Journal of Discourses that the black race would never have the priesthood. God would NEVER allow the black man to hold the priesthood. (I paraphrase)

FACT: The church granted worthy black male members the priesthood in 1977.

FACT: Brigham Young was highly racist and his "prophesy" about the blacks never getting the priesthood obviously was false." please cease paraphrasing, and please tell me WHICH mormon approved materials you got it from, section, verse etc.
as I am extremely interested.

if you mean Doctrine and covenants section 91 verse 4, it actually reads, "therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the spirit manifesteth truth"
instead of
"Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have BUT ONE WIFE, and one woman but one husband except in case of death when either is at liberty to marry again." Also, section 13 doesnt have a verse seven. it only has one verse. please check your quotes before using them. I am sure that all parties involved would appreciate it.
I have been unable to gain access to 'Times and Seasons, dated March 15, 1844, (Vol.5, No.6, p.474) ' so I cannot check upon the correct quotage of that statement,

Elder Joseph,
"The extract is from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and is the only rule allowed by the church.
"All legal contracts of marriage made before a person is baptized into this church, should be held sacred and fulfilled. Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again. It is not right to persuade a woman to be baptized contrary to the will of her husband neither is it lawful to influence her to leave her husband.""
please state the section and verse of this statement, I am sure that all of us are anxious to look it up.

I appreciate the actual writing, generally free of opinions, that has been posted of late, and I also hope to see a good deal of references so that everyone involved, including the readers, can look up and read for themselves the doctrine used.


"The problem as I see it is this: Facts are meaningless to True Believing Mormons. Anything that clashes with their "testimony" or skewed version of reality is brushed aside as either a lie or (gasp!) the workings of Satan." please, post evidence. real evidence. correctly quoted evidence. evidence with proper references. thank you.
same goes for the statement: "Joseph Smith was a liar and a con-man. Gordon B. Hinckley has also been caught lying (even if it's "for the lord" it's still lying and it's still wrong - I don't care who you are.)"
please, it is impossible to change an opinion without the oponion's owner's consent. it is, however, possible to dispute evidence, which, if lacking, leads to a sad loss of truth and fact.

well, it is time that i depart. farewell, may God Bless.

 
At Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:24:00 PM, Blogger I Nephi 3:7 said...

"Doctrine and Covenants," page 330, .... "we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband." Umm... I believe i wasted time in answering that, because the Doctrine and Covenants only goes to page 294. Readers, check for yourselves.

 
At Thursday, October 18, 2007 7:21:00 PM, Blogger Al Jordan said...

D&C actually goes to page 298 - including the maps. At least mine does...maybe you have a different version than I do.

And wasn't EJ quoting John Taylor when he posted that? If so, then it was Taylor's mistake, not EJ's.

i nephi, I'm under the impression that you wouldn't believe any evidence I could provide you with anyway, so I won't waste my time.

When you stop assuming that you already have all the "truth", then we can talk. Keep in mind...I used to be a TBM just like you, so I understand your position.

Try to step outside the comfort zone of your testimony and honestly ask yourself one question: If Joseph Smith lied, would you want to know?

 
At Friday, October 19, 2007 9:25:00 AM, Blogger Elder Joseph said...

1 nephi 3:7

Your D&C is different and altered ... no surprise ...The one quoted by John Taylor and early Church leaders had the section Articles On Marriage which they qouted when LYING in Public and they were LYING to ordinary church members like yourself .They removed it later on ..

The church lied to its ordinary members and thats why they published these denials in church newspaper Times And Seasons.

Its a well known fact but onviously you are just an amateur on church history ..Its clear to me that you don't know your own church history ..maybe you are a naive youngster .

You must have been brought up in church .

we will help you .

 
At Friday, October 19, 2007 9:39:00 AM, Blogger Elder Joseph said...

to all on this blog

1 Nephi3:7 is a sincere person ....

We can help him as he sincerely believes we are mistaken and will look into our sources..

1nephi3:7 please email me ,I've posted my email address on your blog .. cheers and take care

E J

 
At Sunday, October 21, 2007 11:34:00 AM, Blogger Galatian said...

Well, I see the struggle is carrying on as usual. It's amazing to me that TBM's complain over and over again that they need evidence - when Samuel's blog is FULL OF EVIDENCE in virtually every post. Videos, quotes, clips, etc. And they use the same old tired arguments *sigh*. I guess we just have to get used to it. Arguing the same old thing, over and over again to new people until they wake up.
Dammit Samuel, when you get an email (I'm sure you have already) from a former TBM whose life has been changed thanks to the TRUTH, the facts of your blog and conversations -- please post it! It would at least give me some satisfaction that some of these deluded people do in fact, get help.

 
At Friday, October 26, 2007 3:46:00 PM, Blogger Astarte Moonsilver said...

To anyone wanting proof, evidence, quotations, sources of information, and TRUTH:

The very first thing you would have to do is dismiss the "warm fuzzies" as an indicator of truth. What we have been taught as Mormons is to "sieve" all information through the Holy Spirit Indicator, and place things that agree with our current world view in the "truth" category, and all things that contradict our current beliefs must be placed in the "lies" category. This is what many of us are taught growing up in the church. Now, once in a while, we break free from that pattern, and come across some book, or website, or tv special that presents Mormonism in a way that seems unpleasant, shocking, or upsetting. That DOES NOT mean it is NOT true. It simply means that it is different than what we have heard before, and may be worth investigating further.

It is very difficult to break the habit of sifting information through this Holy Spirit Indicator, because the pattern has been ingrained in us so constantly. (And is it really any wonder why?) It is our only defense and protection for our testimony in the church, but it MUST be done if you sincerely want to know why it is that those who leave feel the need and compulsion to put up websites like these. (I have one as well, documenting about two years worth of posts on just about every topic of Mormonism's teachings.) I have spent hours and days researching every conceivable argument, floating back and forth between FAIR and FARMS essays, and all of the websites out there made by people who have chosen to leave.

There is a vast difference between what the church presents as "true history" and what outside non-secular and dis-interested historians would label as "true history". Even when LDS historians attempt to reveal too much "truth", the leadership steps in to curb and control it:

“There is no such thing as an accurate, objective history of the Church without consideration of the spiritual powers that attend this work... There is a temptation... to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith-promoting or not. Some things that are true are not very useful... In an effort to be objective, impartial, and scholarly, a writer or a teacher may unwittingly be giving equal time to the adversary... In the Church we are not neutral. We are one-sided. There is a war going on, and we are engaged in it... The fact that something is already in print or available from another source is no excuse for using potentially damaging materials in writing, speaking, or teaching: ‘Do not spread disease germs!’”

Apostle Boyd K. Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect," speech delivered at the 1981 Church Educational System Religious Educators’ Symposium.


If you really believe that there is such a thing as "learning too much" or "revealing too much", then by all means, continue to scream at those who talk openly about things just because it is shocking, upsetting, or uncomfortable. But consider that it just might be true, even though it isn't 'faith promoting' like the church would present it.

Sometimes the truth hurts...but first it's gonna piss you off.

 
At Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:32:00 PM, Blogger I Nephi 3:7 said...

Well, I noticed you guys missed me enough to post in my absence. Ah, well, down to business.

"to all on this blog

1 Nephi3:7 is a sincere person ....

We can help him as he sincerely believes we are mistaken and will look into our sources.. "
for the second time, it's 'she'. yes, i am sincere. Yes, i believe that you are mistaken. and yes, i would like references for the readers, as well as myself.

"Your D&C is different and altered ... no surprise ...The one quoted by John Taylor and early Church leaders had the section Articles On Marriage which they qouted when LYING in Public and they were LYING to ordinary church members like yourself .They removed it later on .." please, state where you heard that. I am sure all of the readers want to know for sure that we are all telling the truth and properly quoting.
"D&C actually goes to page 298 - including the maps. At least mine does...maybe you have a different version than I do." I apologize. now that i count the maps, there ARE 298. thank you for pointing that out, Elder Joseph.
"And wasn't EJ quoting John Taylor when he posted that? If so, then it was Taylor's mistake, not EJ's." He could have gotten it from another site, which could have misquoted or some other similiar mistake as often happens these days.
"Well, I see the struggle is carrying on as usual. It's amazing to me that TBM's complain over and over again that they need evidence - when Samuel's blog is FULL OF EVIDENCE in virtually every post. Videos, quotes, clips, etc. And they use the same old tired arguments *sigh*. I guess we just have to get used to it. Arguing the same old thing, over and over again to new people until they wake up.
****** Samuel, when you get an email (I'm sure you have already) from a former TBM whose life has been changed thanks to the TRUTH, the facts of your blog and conversations -- please post it! It would at least give me some satisfaction that some of these deluded people do in fact, get help."
Quotes? already several have been misquoted. videos, clips? which have been twisted and mocked to mean something other than the intended meaning. 'deluded people'? I am sure that we are all deluded in one way or another, so that is a rather broad statement. 'true blue mormon'? yes, indeed i am. and unlike possible predecessors, I intend to come away from this blog a stronger mormon than before. "Arguing the same old thing, over and over again to new people until they wake up." exactly. you guys keep arguing the same thing over and over again. whenever i go to a blog and ask for fact, almost immediately comes the polygamist arguement. it's like clockwork!! and no matter how many times i explain the why's and etc, it always pops up; in the next arguement!
"The very first thing you would have to do is dismiss the "warm fuzzies" as an indicator of truth. What we have been taught as Mormons is to "sieve" all information through the Holy Spirit Indicator, and place things that agree with our current world view in the "truth" category, and all things that contradict our current beliefs must be placed in the "lies" category. This is what many of us are taught growing up in the church. Now, once in a while, we break free from that pattern, and come across some book, or website, or tv special that presents Mormonism in a way that seems unpleasant, shocking, or upsetting. That DOES NOT mean it is NOT true. It simply means that it is different than what we have heard before, and may be worth investigating further. "
I believe that this can be likened unto Korihor, for did he not say "O ye that are bound down under a foolish and a vain hope, why do ye yoke yourselves with such foolish things?Why do ye look for a Christ? For no man can know of anything which is to come. Behold these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers. How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see; therefore ye cannot know that there shall be a Christ. Ye look forward and say that ye see a remission of your sins. But behold, it is the effect of a frenzied mind; and this derangement of your minds comes because of the traditions of your fathers, which lead you away into a belief of things which are not so." Alma 30:13-16. even so, you are not saying that there shall be no Christ, but rather there shall be no Christ as the Mormons see him.

"Your D&C is different and altered ... no surprise ...The one quoted by John Taylor and early Church leaders had the section Articles On Marriage which they qouted when LYING in Public and they were LYING to ordinary church members like yourself .They removed it later on .."
Must be a big secret if the Anti-Mormons know all about it and the rest of us don't. please, do tell us where you heard that. I am sure that all of the readers would love to know where you heard that.
"Its a well known fact but onviously you are just an amateur on church history ..Its clear to me that you don't know your own church history ..maybe you are a naive youngster ." 'well-known fact' no, its a well-known falsehood.
'obviousy you are just an amateur on church history'. yup, that i am. if you guys want to talk to the big boys, go to http://www.shields-research.org
"Its clear to me that you don't know your own church history " no, i don-t know the anti-Mormon version of church history very well. there is a difference.
"maybe you are a naive youngster " well, I am naive, and i am young, but im not stupid, contrary to several obvious opinions.

"There is a vast difference between what the church presents as "true history" and what outside non-secular and dis-interested historians would label as "true history". Even when LDS historians attempt to reveal too much "truth", the leadership steps in to curb and control it" 'non-secular' as in non-religious, and unwilling to believe in the possibility that God favors this time as much as he favored the Bible-time people, insomuch that he would send visions to the pure in heart, there fore, those who do not believe in such things would not give a so-inclined history.
"“There is no such thing as an accurate, objective history of the Church without consideration of the spiritual powers that attend this work... There is a temptation... to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith-promoting or not. Some things that are true are not very useful... In an effort to be objective, impartial, and scholarly, a writer or a teacher may unwittingly be giving equal time to the adversary... In the Church we are not neutral. We are one-sided. There is a war going on, and we are engaged in it... The fact that something is already in print or available from another source is no excuse for using potentially damaging materials in writing, speaking, or teaching: ‘Do not spread disease germs!’”

Apostle Boyd K. Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect," speech delivered at the 1981 Church Educational System Religious Educators’ Symposium. " I looked it up. It was actually talking about how the church is like a huge ward, where the bishop has his two counselors, etc. However, if it had said something like that, I would have replied with Proverbs 3:5, which says 'Trust in the LORD with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding' and before we talk about altered editions, I am using the King James Bible, a four-in-one edition, sold at any LDS store.
"Sometimes the truth hurts...but first it's gonna piss you off." Exactly. Like Nephi standing alone and speaking 'hard words' to Laman and Lemuel, words that were nonetheless words of truth. I am quoting 1 Nephi 16:2, which says 'And it came to pass that I said unto them what I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I just ified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day;wherefore the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.'
"If you really believe that there is such a thing as "learning too much" or "revealing too much", then by all means, continue to scream at those who talk openly about things just because it is shocking, upsetting, or uncomfortable. But consider that it just might be true, even though it isn't 'faith promoting' like the church would present it. " No I don't beliee that there is such a thing as learning too much, neither does President Hinckley, because if you search some of his talks, he really presses hard on education. 'revealing too much' the church has nothing to hide. 'scream at those who talk about openly about things just because it is shocking , upsetting, or uncomfortable.' please, don't continue to scream at me. I know it may be shocking that I am not giving in, Upsetting that I am returning fire, or uncomfortable because you cannot find a return answer, but please, don't scream.
Good day, and may God Bless. I probably won’t be on until next Saturday, so don’t get anxious.

 
At Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:35:00 PM, Blogger I Nephi 3:7 said...

I was scanning through my first post here, and i came upon this mistake, so i am correcting it.
"Your comment about the 'Mormon babies'-- all babies cry, Mormon babies are still babies, and actually are not really Mormons because they have not been baptized into the Church because it is believed to be a great evil among the Mormons ( see Moroni chapter ). "
It is supposed to say '(see Moroni chapter 8)" sorry.

 
At Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:49:00 PM, Blogger Galatian said...

So I guess you knew that your church gave gay men electroshock therapy and made them look at porno mags, at BYU?
(see: BYU + Shocktherapy / Values Institute/ Evergreen)

I guess you knew of Joseph Smith's affair with Fanny Alger, which was called "dirty, filthy nasty" by Oliver Cowdry? And what his other wives endured, how they came about? (Read: In Sacred Loneliness)

I guess you know that several known murderers have confessed to killing dozens of people under Brigham Young's orders?
(see: John D. Lee, Porter Rockwell, Bill Hickman)

I guess you know that Joseph after being refused to illegally set up a bank - set up the anti-banking trust? And printed fake money-value sheets/dollars and conducted illegal business? And when it went under he fled the state rather than repaying debts?
(google: Kirtland bank)

I guess you know that DNA evidence shows that 99.9% of Natives come from Mongolians/Asians?
I guess you know there is no empirical evidence for the BOM of any of its characters? And that all archeologists and others will admit that? Even though it says at the beginning of the BOM it is a history of the "Lamanite" peoples who are the ANCESTORS of modern day Natives?

I guess you know that Joseph Smith drank alcohol and got drunk the night before he died? And he wasn't wearing his "sacred garments" he was supposedly commanded to by God, and thought were so holy and protective ... and that he shot 3 men in the jail, killing 2 ..!

I guess you know that church leaders are hypocrites ... saying not to break the Word of Wisdom, watch pornography, or for men to be gay/crossdress.
Even though Brigham Young's own son was a crossdresser and there are verified photos of him in drag?
Even though leaders (including Monson) had gay men look at PORNO to try to "cure them" and Marriott hotels (owned by mormons) allow alcohol and pornos?
And even though Brigham Young and Jospeh Smith both had bars in their own houses, and profited from alcohol sales/revenue in utah? Oh yeah, and Joseph got drunk night before he was killed, and even wrote about getting drunk in his DIARY JOURNALS which are published and sold at Deseret bookstores!!!

Must I go on?

You have a lot to learn!

 
At Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:39:00 AM, Blogger  said...

Samuel, I'm not Mormon, but I am in the process of learning about Mormonism, as a friend recently tried to convert me. I am in no way interested in converting to Mormonism, and I'm looking for exactly what it is that Mormons believe. I've been studying their religion for some time now, and I stumbled across your blog. I saw that you were mormon for over 30 years.
May I ask what was the precipitating factor in leaving the Mormon church? Also, may I inquire, if it is not too personal a question, how has this affected your marriage, since you said you were married in the temple? Thank you, and I apologize if the latter of the two questions was too personal.

 
At Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:41:00 PM, Blogger Astarte Moonsilver said...

ugh, iNephi 3:7,



why are u quoting from the Book of Mormon to prop up your case? If we believed the BoM was scripture, wouldn't we still be Mormon?


I believe that this can be likened unto Korihor, for did he not say "O ye that are bound down under a foolish and a vain hope, why do ye yoke yourselves with such foolish things?


No, as a matter of fact, Korihor did NOT say those things you quoted from Alma in the Book of Mormon, because the Book of Mormon is a MADE UP COLLECTION OF STORIES!!!!

Is there any room for reasoning and logic in that TBM head of yours? We are not going to be swayed by quotes within a text that we do not believe is anything more than one man's attempt at religion-building, and a plagarized one at that!


Here's what your logic sounds like to me:

Working Backwards from a Testimony

1. I believe that the church is true.
2. If the church is true, it makes the Book of Mormon true.
3. If the BoM is true, it makes Joseph a prophet of God.
4. If Joseph is a prophet of God, it means God picked him to organize the church.
5. You can't question God, therefore the church is true.

You speak here in this comment section as if you alone have read the Book of Mormon, and as if you are going to say something really profound that is going to change all of our minds and turn us back towards the church. You are the one who needs to do some more reading, and I DON'T mean more of Joseph's crap.

Oh, in case you don't get it, we don't believe that there were such men as Nephi, Laman, Lemuel, Alma, Moroni OR Korihor, so quoting what Joseph Smith SAYS that they supposedly said to their other fictional bretheren in a book that he completely fabricated is NOT going to help your case. It just makes you look like all the other TBM's who can't see the forest for the trees.

Good luck with that.

 
At Saturday, November 03, 2007 9:08:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Sooo..the 14 year-old who drags herself out of bed to attend seminary at 6:30 in the morning is learning about the sermon on the mount? I don't think so. More likely learning about that scoundrel Joseph Smith."
Actually, this year students in Seminary are studying the Old Testament, and next year they will be studying the New Testament.

 
At Wednesday, November 07, 2007 5:40:00 AM, Blogger Alex said...

OOOOOOOOO!!!!! Fun and educational SHIT! Thanks for the correction.

 
At Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:32:00 AM, Blogger Samuel the Utahnite said...

Hey, it looks like I've been missing out on the fun here on my own blog...LOL!!

I’ve just been busy with my personal life and over on YouTube, responding to comments on my now 172 videos that are exposing Mormonism and I’ve also been researching(as I constantly do) and actually talking to real, live, in person people and friends of mine, sometimes ALL NIGHT LONG, about Mormonism. It’s always amazing and makes it all worthwhile, when I say something or point something out, that has never occurred to them before and it makes the light go on in their mind for the first time. I remember that feeling all too well!!

First comes the horror, then the shock and depression...then finally that peace, that only freedom from a life-long , mind-control cult can bring. After that, you feel happier and freer then you ever have been in your life as you’re finally able to openly think and express yourself, without having to make it all fit in the little box of Mormonism and oh yeah...no more fear of being punished for it.

I like it when the conversation goes from me educating them about the facts and TRUTH of Mormonism, to them asking me questions about this and that, once again respecting me, as they always have before, no longer thinking that I’ve lost my mind....meaning that they’re now actually open to a different reality, that they were just bearing their testimony about, a few hours before, as being the “one and only way.” Of course it’s all the power of Satan that does this...LOL...and it has nothing to do with logic, common sense or “REAL TRUTH" and their brains clicking on for the first time, regarding the fraud of Mormonism.

I really want to thank Al Jordan, Elder Joseph, Astarte Moonsilver, Interested and the cool Anons for their great comments and support in telling the world "THE TRUTH" about the CULT of MORMONISM!! You guys are AWESOME and I respect you a ton!! THANKS!!

I also want to give a BIG SHOUT OUT AND WELCOME BACK to Galatians, whose presence and comments I've missed A TON!! It just wasn't the same around here without you Galatians, knowing how passionately you feel about helping to spread "THE TRUTH" about this horrific CULT of Mormonism.

I MISSED YOU GALATIANS and I'll be dropping you an Email and thanks for your ongoing support and encouragement.

As far as the brainwashed 1 Nephi 3:7, I'll let you handle him/her Elder Joseph, since you seem to have your finger on their heartbeat, intentions, etc. I’m frankly sick of people like Nephi, who have ZERO interest in the TRUTH or FACTS and I just don’t have time to waste with them anymore, as I have too many people to help, that actually want to know “THE TRUTH” and that are “INTERESTED IN THE FACTS.” I’m so damn sick of you dumbasses calling me a LIAR, when you have NO CLUE what you're even talking about!!

As far as Nephi's FALSE and UNEDUCATED, CLUELESS accusation that I never explain why the Mormon Prophets and Apostles are frauds, liars, assholes, etc...well, I'll just quote Galatians, who knows my blog VERY VERY WELL:

It's amazing to me that TBM's complain over and over again that they need evidence - when Samuel's blog is FULL OF EVIDENCE in virtually every post. Videos, quotes, clips, etc.

AMEN, AMEN and AMEN and thank you Galatians, for stating the obvious, to someone that isn’t interested in even knowing what they’re talking about, before leaving their uneducated comments!!

For you clueless TBMS out there, like "Nephi 3:7", who want to pop on my blog and speak like a dumbass and ignorant fool regarding my blogs and what I'm doing here...you may just want to familiarize yourself with the actual content of around 300 posts, plus videos and podcasts and hundreds of comments I’ve left, before opening your mouths and leaving NO DOUBT about what a dumbass you truly are!!

It’s an insult to me and all of my hard work and the hard work of many others, to lie about what the content of my blog is, when you don’t even know...but again, Mormons are not the least bit interested in TRUTH or FACTS, and love to arrogantly, proudly, constantly and incessantly bear false witness(mocking their Jesus and 10 commandments that they pretend to love so much)...as they believe in nothing but fairy tales, and then carry that over to their personal life and about EVERY OTHER aspect of their life...including their make believe comments on my blog, that have no basis in reality whatsoever.

One thing I absolutely hate, detest and have NO tolerance for(which is a very common thing for the arrogant, Mormon, literal "Gods-in-embryo"), is when you act as an authority on something(ME, MY BLOGS, MORMONISM, ETC) that YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!!

Damn that pisses me off and then you wonder why I insult you and get pissed off and have no tolerance for your inexcusable, bullshit behavior and lies?

Over on YouTube, I get called EVERYTHING in the book, daily on my videos, by people that don't even know if I was a member or not, because they're too damn stupid to take a second and read my damn profile or the video descriptions before commenting!! I love it when they call me an Evangelical, following the orders of my anti-Mormon Pastor...LOL...dumbasses!! What could be further from the truth than that, as most of you know how I feel about ALL man-made organized religions?

I mean...holy shit people...do a little homework, before going off like a dumb shit!!

I've NEVER met more vile, disgusting shit in my life, then the Mormons over on YouTube, who take issue with me and what I'm doing, while defending, justifying, rationalizing and excusing the Mormon's official teachings and actions regarding the horrific things like racism, bigotry, homophobia, sexism, anti-semitism, hate of everyone(especially non-Mormons or Apostates) and all churches, polygamy, polyandry, child rape, adultery, etc.

These people(who claim to be true-believing Mormons/Christians) have NO VALUES, NO MORALS and quite frankly, in my opinion, are dangerous to society, since they'd clearly do or say anything, to keep their little cult of shame true, even if they have to make up complete lies and slander people like me and all of you other ex/non-Mormons out there.

I'll respond further and to others here when I have more time.

Hey Nephi, have another sip of your Kool-aid and then say hi to Dorothy, the Tinman, scarecrow and her little dog too!!

Then close your eyes and click your heels together and keep chanting "there's no place like Kolob...there's no place like Kolob...."

LMAO!!

Thanks everyone for your comments,

Samuel

 
At Tuesday, November 13, 2007 6:45:00 AM, Blogger Al Jordan said...

It looks like i nephi may have given up. Hopefully she's out there conducting some research into church history and finally coming to realize that we're not a bunch of crazy un-informed liars.

I wish her well. The journey to the truth is a tough one, but well worth it.

Keep up the great work Samuel! I'll be looking forward to your next post.

- AJ

 
At Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:30:00 PM, Blogger Galatian said...

Hey Samuel,

Thanks for your kind comments. I missed the gang myself, and I've been catching up with everyone. I've really been wanting to work on my blog and do more -- but I have so much going on in my life at the moment it seems I never get around to just doing what I'd like to.

Anyway, I will be around and trying to do more. Just bear with me. Glad you're alright, hope all is well. Hope we chat soon.

 
At Saturday, November 17, 2007 8:49:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is the sister of the one you call 1Nephi3:7. I would like to inform you that she died in a car crash on November 4th. That is why she has not been back. I will not stay to say more about her, or the incorrect information on this site, but I would appreciate it if you would refrain from mocking her work, and her passing. thank you

 
At Saturday, November 17, 2007 6:18:00 PM, Blogger Astarte Moonsilver said...

NO EULOGIES!!!

The facts don't change. Mormonism is still wrong and this work will continue.
It's too bad about your sister dying in a car crash, but it is wrong to come here and attempt to make anyone feel guilty over correcting her statements or refuting her claims. I'm sort of glad that she now knows the truth, however tragic the path was for her to reach it.

I don't feel bad one little bit for refuting her claims and stating my position, even if it was in direct opposition of hers, and even though she is now deceased, it doesn't change my mind about her as a person or as a Mormon faithful. My opinion is that her beliefs were wrong then, and they are still wrong now.

Sorry if that sounds cold and unfeeling, but she's just a face in the crowd to most of us....with the possible exception of EJ, who may or may not have established email contact with her before her passing. What say you, EJ?

All of the above is my personal opinion, response, etc.. and I am not attempting to speak for or on behalf of any other commentors to Samuel's blog.

I'm sorry for your loss.

 
At Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:07:00 AM, Blogger Elder Joseph said...

astarte

The last email I got from 1Nephi3:7was on November 3rd .

I'm a bit concerned if the anonymous words are true about her sister being killed in that way .

ofcourse no one on this blog would wish that on anyone .We are just here to expose mormon deception , nothing more , nothing less .

 
At Sunday, November 18, 2007 10:09:00 AM, Blogger Galatian said...

If her sister truly did pass away, then I am sorry, and it's not funny at all. But I somehow highly doubt it. Sounds to me like more TBM dramatics. If my sister just died within the last 2 weeks - I doubt I'd be making remarks on blogs.

And Astarte is right, no matter what tragedy befalls Mormons or non-Mormons alike, it doesn't take away from the truth of our exposing Mormonism for the fraud it is.

I hope more will learn the truth.

 
At Friday, November 23, 2007 4:58:00 PM, Anonymous Shauna Michelsen said...

I'm neither here nor there, but may I offer up the words of Christ:

"And ye shall know them by the fruits..."

hateful, vengeful and ugly words only make people hoping to learn the "truth" about something turn away. If you truly want to help others know Christ, you'll lead them by example, not with anger and hate. Let's see, who else likes wrath and anger and hate? Oh that's right...Satan.

 
At Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:02:00 AM, Blogger Elder Joseph said...

Shauna Michelsen

Have you read the Hate filled words and speeches of the LDS church's past leaders.

The verbal and theological attacks on Black Skinned people , the threatening of hell to women who were reluctant to embark on polygamy .

The total codemnation of other Christian Denominations.

This is the foundation of the LDS church ..

 
At Sunday, November 25, 2007 2:04:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And Paul condoned slavey, what's your point?

Wow, I have read your facts and comments and I feel really sorry for you, all of you. The church and the members aren't perfect, and as for your facts it isn't any different then much of the stuff said in anti-mormon stuff. Peter was a prophet and denied CHRIST, but you don't want to talk about that do you. Justify your existence for whatever it might be, the truth, well the truth of the gospel will continue like it always has. Christ lives. Joseph Simth was a prophet, this is his church, the Book of Mormon is the word of god. He still loves you even if you fight against it. That is all. He joy your anti-discussion.

Collin, faithful member return missionary and legal student.

 
At Sunday, November 25, 2007 8:06:00 AM, Blogger Elder Joseph said...

To Colin the Faithfull returned Missionary

1. Joseph Smith was a polygamist who married over 33 living wives , most of them young teenagers and many living and working as his house maids, including Sisters!
2. He married 11 married women, one of them pregnant and they still had their original husbands as well .
3. He demanded wives from his followers and watch them breakdown and suffer for days with the dilemma of having to hand them over .
4. He married a 14 year old ( he was 37 ) after telling her that she should do this for her own reward in CK and that of her parents and family.
5. At least one of the married women who turned him down was told by him that an Angel with a flaming sword came and threatened his life if he didn’t do this and then the woman agreed to marry him under this fear …..
6. Joseph Smith was lying all his life about his secret marriages and the church was lying also and even to its own members .They didn’t know about this secret polygamy .The women were ordered to keep it secret also. This means they couldn’t tell their family or anyone else about it . Only those who were in the inner circle of this polygamy club knew about it .The rest of the church were not told .They were lied to continuously by the church leaders in public and in printed denials throughout church newspapers .
7. Joseph Smith married Orson Hydes wife while he was on a mission and that he proposed to Orson Pratts wife while he was on a mission . She turned him down .When Orson came back he was suicidal over it . They were both excommunicated afterwards. This is what he did when anyone failed to obey him.
8. Mormon Leaders were marrying and conceiving with very young girls and even of 14 years old, 16 years old, 18 years old etc and they were in their 40’s 50’s and 60’ s and if I research it more it gets more sicker . These were arranged marriages, These girls were ‘called ‘ to it and they were threatened with hell and damnation over it . I have read some relevant details about the ages of these girls and the men .

Here is Brigham Young talking about marrying YOUNG girls to OLD Priesthood Mormon Leaders .

JOD VOL 9 page 37 Brigham Young
How will you be happy? Love the Giver more than the gift. Delight
yourselves in your duties, mothers. Here are the middle-aged and the
young. I am now almost daily sealing young girls to men of age and
experience. Love your duties, sisters. Are you sealed to a good man? Yes, to a man of God. It is for you to bear fruit and bring forth, to the praise of God, the spirits that are born in yonder heavens and are to take tabernacles on the earth. You have the privilege of forming tabernacles for those spirits, instead of their being brought into
this wicked world that God may have a royal Priesthood, a royal
people, on the earth. That is what plurality of wives is for, and not
to gratify lustful desires. Sisters, do you wish to make yourselves happy? Then what is your duty? It is for you to bear children, in the
name of the Lord, that are full of faith and the power of God,—to
receive, conceive, bear, and bring forth in the name of Israel's God
that you may have the honour of being the mothers of great and good
men—of kings, princes, and potentates that shall yet live on the earth
and govern and control the nations. Do you look forward to that?

My answer and the answer of all those girls was no they don’t look forward to that , they were under threat from this dictator Brigham Young and the others … and how is it a privilege to bear children to men you don’t have love or affection for ?? Its too shameful to comprehend .He says its not to gratify lustful desires but they still have to have sex with them to conceive .Its not natural .Its rape when a woman is subject against her will this way.

 
At Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:26:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does this blog have an RSS Feed?

If so, what is the addy?

 
At Wednesday, December 12, 2007 12:55:00 AM, Anonymous drew said...

samual,

Who are you and what do you believe now that you've left mormanism?

Where can I go to read about you?

 
At Wednesday, December 19, 2007 11:52:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

somebody is bitter!

 
At Monday, December 24, 2007 1:28:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reading through this blog makes me wonder only one thing. What causes someone to spend so much time trying to put down another religion?

 
At Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:01:00 PM, Blogger Elder Joseph said...

anonymous

What kind of nonsense talk is that.

If you knew anything about Mormonism you could answer your own question .

 
At Friday, December 28, 2007 9:08:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

what a sad, sad website. I saw your Youtube video stuff and just shook my head in astonishment.

I've seen many anti-Mormons who claim they are so intellectually superior to everyone else. Funny, yet sad.

You like to say by their fruits ye shall know them....what fruit are you showing? You are right, we do know you by your fruits and they aren't sweet or delicious.

 
At Friday, December 28, 2007 11:42:00 PM, Anonymous MikeyA said...

Great site Samuel! Looking forward to your next topic, it's been a while.

One of the problems in this world is that not everything can be "sweet or delicious" as the idiot above would like it to be. If a pedophile/adulterer/conman starts a cult that steals time and money from people, then people need to take action to put an end to it. So well done Samuel!

Mormonism can no longer hide its history and silence its defectors, the internet is here!

Wake up anonymous, Mormonism is built on a lie and it is a waste of your time, money and your life to support it.

 
At Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:05:00 AM, Blogger Jonathan said...

What have Mormon's done that has negatively affected the world? And don't give me the same answer you always do that you are trying to "save" their members from lies and evil because obviously the members are happy with their religion if they continue to live it. What is the real cause for someone to so actively attack them?

 
At Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:23:00 AM, Blogger Marty said...

Wow, Sam you really need to leave Utah. You give the church much more credit then it deserves.

I can't get 10 guys together to play ball, let alone go intimidate "exmormons".

I will even use my real name and everything.

Marty

 
At Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:35:00 AM, Anonymous MikeyA said...

Listen carefully - "trying to "save" their members from lies and evil" IS the reason some people attack the church.

Whether you like that answer or not, that at least applies to me, and is my motivation. It appears to be Samuel's as well.

If a conman was trying to steal my elderly neighbour's life savings by getting her to sign everything over to him, I would do something about it. Even if she told me she was happy to do it, I would not stand back and let him get away with it.

You might think "she's an adult it's up to her". Fine, do nothing.

Others will choose to do the right thing. Go Samuel!

 
At Sunday, December 30, 2007 4:14:00 PM, Blogger Elder Joseph said...

Anonymous you said...
"what a sad, sad website. I saw your Youtube video stuff and just shook my head in astonishment.

I've seen many anti-Mormons who claim they are so intellectually superior to everyone else. Funny, yet sad."

Why don't you email me at Elderjoseph@hotmail.co.uk
and we'll chat ( via audio) and lets see how intellectual you really are .

 
At Sunday, December 30, 2007 5:54:00 PM, Blogger Moose2sk said...

Well, all I get from this is what you don't believe about Mormons and THEIR religion. There is nothing about what YOU personally DO believe. If you really wanted to save them wouldn't you share beliefs that you feel result in a person's salvation? Stop criticizing another person's beliefs when you don't show that you have any of your own.

 
At Sunday, December 30, 2007 6:49:00 PM, Anonymous MikeyA said...

moose2sk/jonathan,

This is a site to explain the lies told by mormonism and to warn people that they are wasting their precious time and resources if they are members.

No one said they are offering salvation. Exposing a deceptive organisation is a helpful thing to do. Mormonism is not supported by truth, this site and others help mormons to see the sinister web they are caught in.

When they are free they can choose their own path.

 
At Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:44:00 PM, Blogger Marty said...

One parting thought. Again, by my own admittance the average attendance at Sacrament meeting is barely 40%, so where is the "captive" audience? That means 60% are elsewhere doing, who knows what.

2nd, did "Phil" get permission from Jim Morin, to "adapt" his cartoon? I know that op ed cartoonists, just love it, when THEIR work is used in a manner that they didn't intend.

Again, get out in the world....

Marty

 
At Friday, January 04, 2008 4:05:00 AM, Anonymous Veldrin said...

Marty, I believe most works of this nature are protected by a parody act.

I don't believe anyone here has claimed any of that art as their own, but are merely using it as a *parody* for a laugh. Like oh so many comedians, sketch shows and even commercials do.

Perhaps, you should go annoy those people too.

Samuel, hope you're well. Looking forward to your return and more topics.
The cult doesn't stand still when we do, so there will always be much work to do. Best wishes.

Veldrin

 
At Monday, January 07, 2008 10:06:00 AM, Anonymous Mark said...

I thought this was a "daily blog," what's the matter? Not enought dirt to talk about every single day?

"This is a site to explain the lies told by mormonism and to warn people that they are wasting their precious time and resources if they are members.

"No one said they are offering salvation. Exposing a deceptive organisation is a helpful thing to do. Mormonism is not supported by truth, this site and others help mormons to see the sinister web they are caught in.

When they are free they can choose their own path."

Mikeya in response to this

"Well, all I get from this is what you don't believe about Mormons and THEIR religion. There is nothing about what YOU personally DO believe. If you really wanted to save them wouldn't you share beliefs that you feel result in a person's salvation? Stop criticizing another person's beliefs when you don't show that you have any of your own."

Mikeya, my friend, Moose has a point. When I study something I want to be able to look at things like reference pages, or what the educational background of the author is. All we ever see with Samuel is that he went on a two year mission, was married in the San Diego temple, and then "began a journey that led me to the truth about Mormonism; that it is a complete lie and total fraud." What's the rest, just like the history of the LDS church, I want to know...what is the rest?

The bible, in Acts, talks all about a restoration of a church according to Jesus' teachings. Paul traveled all over the place...walking. Samuel the Utahnite sits on a chair and uploads dirt...valid dirt mostly, but he doesn't profess the "truth," he just says what it isn't.

How many people do you think looked at the book of revelation and thought "what the crap?" Yet there it is, in all its glory, the last book of the bible.

Samuel, I could write seperate blogs every day preaching to the world about the flaws in every single religion on the planet, and trust me they all have them. I guess it's just easier to pick on the minority, as is the case in most situations. But then again, I wouldn't want to be "wasting" my "precious time and resources" now would I.

Mark

btw, I'm not a mormon. I'm a methodist.

 
At Monday, January 07, 2008 2:55:00 PM, Blogger Mark Sitton said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At Monday, January 07, 2008 2:57:00 PM, Anonymous Mark said...

Marty,

I'm pretty sure church attendance reflects those numbers in not just the LDS church. My methodist church has close to 2000 members recorded, however each Sunday we're lucky if we see 500...over two services, contemperary and traditional. Correct me if I'm wrong but that is 25%. Seems to me 40% average is not too shabby!

Oh yeah, it's significant to note that my church is in the bible belt.

 
At Monday, January 07, 2008 7:17:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow-just found this blog through Galatian's blog and I just wanted to tell you how much I love it! I've been a non-believer for about 8-10 years depending on how you see it, and a true non-member for the past three. (That's when I had my "name removed"). Anyway, I'm enjoying digging through your posts and am finding dome great recommendations. It's so great to know others feel your pain! Thanks so much. I look forward to reading.
abby
ilovesecretpal@yahoo.com

 
At Sunday, January 13, 2008 11:51:00 AM, Blogger Squiddy said...

But why so obsessed? Dang, don't you have a job? Don't you get worn out from focusing on so much negativity?

Why the great need to steer people away from Mormonism when they are happily minding their own business? You're like the typical ex-Mormon who can leave the church but you just can't leave it alone. Have fun!

 
At Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:04:00 AM, Blogger Seth said...

We need "obsessed" people to share the truth. Kinda like missionaries like to share either "the good news" or the doom and gloom stuff.

And Mormons don't mind their own business. They refuse to leave my wife alone. Next time one comes to the door I'm calling the police.

 
At Friday, January 25, 2008 4:44:00 PM, Anonymous Trying not to spend my life destroying everything in sight said...

I didn't know any other way to reach you to note your misreading of Richard Bushman's comment on a Youtube video. You say:

Mormon Scholar Richard Bushman, who wrote "Rough Stone Rolling", about Joseph Smith, now teaches a class in "LDS Intellectual History"(LOL!!) at BYU. [He's now teaching Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate College; he was the Governeur Morris Professor of History at Columbia University.]

He now says he's "heard very intelligent, informed people think that there's something wacky about Mormonism, which ... uuugh [actually: uhhh] ...indicates a lack of mental judgment. I think that is "PURE PREJUDICE."

[end of quote]

You then interpret him as saying that those who think Mormonism is wacky "lack mental judgment" and call on him to apologize. That's not what he's saying. He is NOT accusing anyone else of lacking "mental judgment." He's referring to other people making that accusation against Mormons. He's saying that some "intelligent, informed people" think there's something wacky about Mormonism and that adherence to Mormonism therefore indicates a lack of mental judgment.

That's clear from the comments that follow on the video, when he says that such a view (that believing Mormonism makes one mentally incompetent) would logically prevent a Mormon from being a surgeon or running a hotel chain. But since people have proven themselves in such fields, why can't they also be competent in politics?

In other words, your bitter plea that Bushman needs to apologize for accusing anti-Mormons of mental incompetence is based on your misunderstanding what he said. Applying your own standards, you've got some repair work of your own to do. In the name of truth--and proving your ability to understand other people accurately--if nothing else.

 
At Sunday, January 27, 2008 9:04:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you hear? Pres. H died tonight around 8PM.

Never forget me, because I'll never forget you!

Always,

Marie

 
At Thursday, January 31, 2008 12:32:00 AM, Anonymous Sky said...

Dear creater of this blog, I used to go to an Mormon Church and I like it for a bit . I stop going there because I did not want to contiue a relationship with this guy, who usally go there.I stop going to that Church for a long time and I joined the Seventh Day Adventist Church.
here are some websites to check out

http://www.hopetv.org/article.php?id=3

http://www.lifestyle.org/

http://www.itiswritten.com/

 
At Monday, February 04, 2008 6:25:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What the Fuck is a "Holy Spirit Indicator"? Is this available at WetFart? Why would ANYone need such a paranoid psycho piece of imaginary crap?

 
At Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:07:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hahaha I love how heated Samuel gets over a little comment someone makes opposing him hahahahaha cracks me up. Someone posts a one sentence opposition to what he says and he rants for pages back hahahahahah wow. Loser.

 

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