Tuesday, November 22, 2005

In The Mormon's First Vision, Jesus Told Joseph Smith, That All Other Churches Were False, Their Creeds An Abomination And Forbade Him To Join Them!

A few days ago, I wrote a response to a post that was written by John Dehlin, on his Mormon Stories site. I have to admit that I was a little critical of John D, following his 3 part interview with John Lynch, the FAIR Apologist, that is anything but FAIR, pun intended. Anyway, up until that point, I actually enjoyed John's podcasts and I really appreciated his attempt to try to explain all of the issues that the Mormon Church either lies about or tries to cover up. I talked about all of this at the beginning of podcast #3-Joseph Smith. What I really appreciated above anything else, was John's ability to ask the great, very difficult questions. I had just felt that with John Lynch, he wasn't tough enough. I then went on John's blog, regarding Podcast #1 with Lynch, and called John Lynch a "loser." Everybody freaked out and the focus became on the fact that I called him a "loser", and nobody wanted to discuss the substance of my remarks and his behavior that week on RFM, where he blatantly lied and deceived everyone.

Let me re-post part of my apology on calling John Lynch a loser. I said, "I suppose dishonest, lack of integrity and deceitful would have stood on their own and been powerful enough without having to use the term 'loser.' So, let me say this, based on his activities this past week over at RFM and with Steve Benson, John Lynch proved to many to be dishonest, lack integrity and was very deceitful."

Anyway, John Dehlin and I have been Emailing each other and he pointed out to me that
he wasn't hard on Hyrum either, from the Church is not true, when he did his podcast with him. He was right, but, in my opinion, he did have the tendency to more easily agree with John Lynch, since John Lynch's explanations and ideas, were more closely related to what John Dehlin is thinking. But I do have to admit, that he was fair and respectful to both of them, which I do appreciate.

The bottom line, is that it doesn't matter. There are people out there clinging to hope and the Mormon Church and he is simply trying to help them. John Dehlin, is a great guy, just trying to be an honest, fair guy and he has his audience of people that need what he is doing. I have my audience that needs what I'm doing and we are in agreement on that aspect. At least, both John and I agree, that the Mormon Church has massive problems with it's history and isn't being honest with its membership regarding these issues or dealing with them properly. That is a start, right? I have more in common with John Dehlin, than any die-hard TBM or the Mormon Hierarchy, that's for sure. In that sense, we are on the same side. If only the Mormon Church could have John's honesty, but don't hold your breath, it will never happen.

The main thing that I do respect about John, is his honesty. At least he is trying to be honest, bring up all of the problems in Mormon History and discuss them openly and frankly. That is more than anyone will ever get from the Mormon Cult Hierarchy, so kudos to John Dehlin for his efforts. Even though he is trying to help the Church, I'm sure that those cult leaders in Salt Lake City, especially Hinckley, can't be to happy about a show like John Dehlin's. John Dehlin is still an active member of the Church but trying to do things right, so I respect him greatly for that. The Mormon Church wants nothing to do with in-depth discussion and debate regarding their ugly skeletons that fill their closet. They run and hide, while lying and denying, that is their "modus operandi." Eventually, down the road, I'll be on John's podcast and vice versa. We have the same goals of honesty and helping people, but hope for different end results. But, the bottom line is that we are both helping people that need our particular brand of help and there is plenty of room and people for both of us.

I'm guessing, from what I know of him and his show, that he wants to help people to be able to stay in the Church and find ways to accept all of the problematic things in Mormon History. The difference between us is that I want to help people either discover the Mormon fraud, or to cope with what they've already discovered and help them either out of the Mormon repressive cult, or to be able to deal better with the fact that they've already left after being lied to their entire life. I don't encourage anyone to stay in the Mormon Cult and want to expose the truth to the world, but not to help them to accept it, but to reject it and move on with their lives and to escape the Mormon cult and free their minds and spirits. I want people to be able to free their minds from the mind-control and brainwashing that goes on in the Mormon Church from the time we are little kids, singing, "we thank thee o God for a Prophet."

Now, with that being said, John Dehlin, posted a great comment the other day that evoked a very strong response from me. I wanted to share this response with you guys, along with the comment from John Dehlin. I felt that his comment was brutally honest and to the point, along with being 100% on the money. As I mentioned in the Title of this post, it has to do with the Mormon Church claiming, that they are the one and only true Church on the face of the earth. This is a subject that I have touched on, several times, here on my blog, but my thoughts on this matter over the last 6 months go much deeper than what I've expressed.

So, here was John Dehlin's comment, followed by mine. I hope that John doesn't mind me sharing his comments with "Mormon Truth" readers. For an active member of the Church to express what he did, is risky and what the Church would consider, "out of line." I respect him for putting himself out there like he did. It's interesting though, the comments that John made, are things that maybe someone in the Church Hierarchy could say, but not a common member. Again, it's all part of the hypocrisy of "do what I say, not what I do", mentality of the Mormon Church. Here are the comments. I sincerely hope that John doesn't get himself in trouble by stating such, what they would consider to be, blasphemous words, that are in direct contradiction of official Mormon doctrine.

John Dehlin's comment:

False Dichotomies: The worst our church has to offer?November 16, 2005 on 12:11 pm In Mormon, LDS, Mormon Stories, Mormon Culture, Blog Post

My sister just pointed me to
this article by Joseph Fielding McConkie entitled: “Two Churches Only”.

While I can’t argue technically or doctrinally with anything Bro. McConkie writes, I have always felt that this type of “false dichotomy” represents the worst thinking and teaching our church has to offer.

For some reason it reminds me of the immature college football player who runs up to the camera on New Year’s Day after scoring a touchdown and shouts “We’re number 1″ with his index finger thrust forward….or the rabid fan that shouts “You all suck” to the opponents as they run onto the playing field at the beginning of the game.

I know this is strong language for me to use….but I believe that Brother McConkie’s article represents the worst writing and thinking our church has to offer the world today. What does it say about God that He would create “one true church”, and then only allow 1/2 of 1% of His children to have access to it within their lifetimes? There must be more to the eternal plan than this, or frankly, God isn’t the type of god I’m interested in worshiping. It MUST be that God has incorporated other faiths into His overall plan in some meaningful, important way–that makes calling them all an “abomination” or “of the devil” not quite accurate…and even sickeningly wrong and disrespectful.

I know the scriptures easily support Brother McConkie’s interpretation…but the scriptures leave open
LOTS of room for interpretations that may not necessarily be righteous (killing is ok at times, wine is ok, multiple wives is both good and bad, women should keep silent in the church, etc.). (On the video clip, fast forward to time code 9:00 for the fast version)
To me, the plan is much broader, and much nobler than what Brother McConkie outlines in this article. To me, this type of writing only engenders pride, and complacency, and arrogance on the part of members….and does NOTHING to help bring people closer to our church.

A wise man once said that “Not all things that are true are useful”. While I’m not sure I’d apply this to the way we teach church history, I’d certainly apply it to this notion of “Two churches–the one and only true franchise vs. the Church of Satan”–and I guess I’d even question whether it’s really true. God is smarter, and more loving than this oversimplified dichotomy.

Just my opinion.

John Dehlin

My response to John Dehlin's comments:


I know I said that I wasn’t going to post anymore on your site, in my last Email to you, but I just have to thank you publicly for your honesty and straightforwardness on this particular subject. When I read this post, I about fell off my chair. This post sparked a fire within me and I had to respond and give my points of view. I’ve been pondering this exact subject for the last 6 months.

I have tremendous respect for you John and give you huge kudos for being able to be frank, candid and honest, regarding this matter, knowing that it must be very difficult for you to deal with and accept.

I agree 100% with everything that you’ve said regarding this “one and only true church” teaching and we are on some very common ground in this instance. It is indeed very strong language for you John, as you usually try to defend these types of things and teachings or find either a rational or acceptable explanation for them. To flat out say it is wrong, is a big thing for you, I’m sure.

I was stunned when I first read your post and wondered if you had even written it, since you hadn’t signed your name. Now I know that you did write it, so that’s why I’m responding. Now onto the subject matter at hand.

The problem is, that you can’t be a good, temple going member of the Church, if you don’t believe this “one and only”teaching, you just can’t. We taught it for two years on our mission. Everything that the Church stands for, from baptism, to the temples and everything in between, demands that one accept this premise.

It is required!! If this premise isn’t true, then the entire premise of the Mormon Church, along with the importance of it’s teachings, temples, etc, go right out the window and are rendered meaningless. Let me state a few examples to support this point of view.

To reject this teaching, requires one to have to reject the divine authenticity of The Book of Mormon, therefore, rejecting Joseph Smith as a true Prophet of God. Don’t worry everyone, I’m going to support these points too, just give me a minute. It also requires us to reject the First Vision and the words that Jesus supposedly spoke to Joseph Smith. Again, if these words straight from Jesus’ mouth are false, then everything crumbles.

So, if The Book of Mormon isn’t divine, Joseph Smith isn’t a Prophet and the words from the First Vision can’t be accepted, what do you have left to believe in? What would be the point to continue on in the Mormon Church?

Aren’t those things the entire foundation of the Mormon Church? What does the Church have without all of that to stand on? They have nothing!! I’ll give you some quotes at the end to also support this.

If the entire foundation of the Mormon Church is questionable or false, that it stands to reason that the Mormon Church is obviously false as well. It’s pretty simple isn’t it? You can’t have a “true Church” when the BOM, D&C, First Vision and Joseph Smith are all false, right? It’s just common sense.

Joseph Smith History specifically says, starting in verse 18… “I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors• were all corrupt; that: “they draw• near to me with their lips, but their hearts• are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments• of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power• thereof.”

20 He again forbade me to join with any of them;

So, “they were all wrong”, “all their creeds were an abomination in his sight”, “those professors• were all corrupt” and he “forbade me to join with any of them, etc, etc.”

Then, let me remind everyone of the following verses from the BOM and D&C:

1 Ne. 14: 10
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two• churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other• is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso• belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore• of all the earth.

D&C 18: 20
20 Contend• against no church, save it be the church of the devil.

GS Devil
The church of the devil: Every evil and worldly organization on earth that perverts the pure and perfect gospel and fights against the Lamb of God.

GS Devil
The devil founded the great and abominable church, 1 Ne. 13: 6 (1 Ne. 14: 9). There are only two churches, one of the Lamb of God and one of the devil, 1 Ne. 14: 10 (Alma 5: 39). Contend against no church, save it be the church of the devil, D&C 18: 20. The great and abominable church shall be cast down, D&C 29: 21.


I know that I’m simply stating the obvious, things that most everyone here is probably already familiar with, but to me, it is just so clear and so important to fully understand these verses. Either these things are true or they aren’t. There is no ambiguity, no gray area, as taught by Hinckley himself. These things are clearly stated and there is no other interpretation in my opinion.

Just the word “restoration”, or the phrase “restored gospel”, clearly states the idea that there is no other true Church. It clearly gives one the idea that the Mormon Church is “the one and only true, restored Church on the earth”, doesn’t it? That the Mormon Church is the only Church that has the “authority of God” to act or “the authority to act in the name of God.” .

Again, we taught that on our missions in the very first discussion. We were taught and trained to teach it as the missionary discussions were “inspired” directly from God. At least that was always my understanding and what I believed. When the discussions changed in the mid-80’s, those changes came from God, through his Prophet.

Remember now, it is the “divinely inspired” Book of Mormon, “the most correct book on the earth”, that refers to the Church of the Devil and the Mother of harlots, Mother of abominations and the whore of all the earth”, and this applies to any Church that isn’t the Church of the Lamb of God.

As it clearly states, “Behold there are save two• churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other• is the church of the devil.” This is obviously something that Joseph Smith strongly believed all the way back to the First Vision as I showed above. Again, the BOM, confirms that other Churches are abominations.

Now to further show what I now consider to be incredible arrogance by the Mormon Church, that they are the only ones with “the truth”, I want to share some words from M. Russell Ballard.

I went to a Stake Conference a couple of weeks ago and he had some very arrogant things to say that are very relevant to this conversation.

Now, those true believers out there, do you accept that M. Russell Ballard is a true Apostle of God and that when he speaks in a Stake Conference, he is inspired, or was he just speaking as a man, unless it was something that agreed with your point of view? This is a common argument that I’ve been running into a lot with Friends and Family members. Just something to think about while you read and ponder what he said.

I’m only going to include the pertinent things that apply to this conversation, but he did have some other “words of wisdom” or “tidbits” of insight that he shared with us. I will be doing a post on my blog later tonight regarding these other “tidbits” from Ballard that were rather silly, amazing and never heard of before, as far as I know.”

I think he was re-writing Mormon theology and doctrine once again with some of his remarks that he demanded were true.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand; Ballard made the following statements, “Joseph Smith was chosen before the foundations of the world were laid and he was tutored, prepared and taught for generations.”

He then said, “We as Latter-Day Saints, know more about the purpose of life, who we are, where we came from and were we are going than everybody else on the entire planet and that we know concisely what will happen after this life.”

He then said, point blank, “we, as a people, know more than every other person on this entire earth.” “How and why do we know this”, he asked”? Well, of course, he said it’s because of “Joseph Smith.”

If that doesn’t smack of complete arrogance and “I’m better than everyone else”, I don’t know what does. There was no humility in his words whatsoever. He was boasting about how much we know. This is the attitude that you, John, are talking about in your post.

This attitude is being shared by people like Ballard, who is supposed to be a humble servant/Apostle, of God, isn’t he? He was telling everyone that either we are more blessed than everyone else in the world or just smarter, you decide.

As a “TBM”, I used to eat that stuff up and it made me feel good that we knew so much that the rest of the world had no clue about. It confirmed to me that we were indeed, a peculiar people, but a peculiar people with the only truth.

That knowledge gave me a fire to want to share, give two years of my life serving a mission, etc, while trying to convince the rest of the world that they needed to be a Mormon like me in order to be saved.

I felt very bad for those that had their chance, felt the spirit, but then rejected it because they couldn’t stop smoking or drinking, etc. I hoped that they would get another chance, prayed and fasted for them, my soul was tormented, but my understanding was that they would only get one chance, either in this life or the next. I felt that sadly, they may have had their one chance.

But, in short, it drove me to do what the Church wanted me to do, in order to help them complete their mission and goals. My Family and I paid my way, which came to around $10,000, for this wonderful privilege of helping the Church achieve their agenda and goals. Meanwhile, I had to subject myself to Mission Leadership that was much less than honorable or respectful and in some cases, downright abusive.

At least I met some great people that I’ll never forget, learned a new language and learned how to survive in a foreign land/culture, etc. Also, one very important thing that I learned, was all about the very obvious flaws that exist in the Mormon Church that I previously wasn’t familiar with.

I left naive and came home knowing more than I ever wanted to know. Ignorance is indeed bliss, at least in this case.

Now, back to Ballard for a second, let’s keep in mind that M. Russell Ballard is also a direct descendant of Joseph Smith. So, it would make sense to give Joseph Smith all the credit and make him the reason why we are so much more intelligent than all those other poor folks that must be living horrible, miserable lives, without Mormonism to divide them from their Family and Friends, right?

Plus, he also mentioned that “save Jesus only, that Joseph Smith was the most important man that ever lived on the earth, ever, and that he was greater than Moses, Abraham, etc. He was, the greatest Prophet to ever live.”

Now, with all of this said, if the Mormon Church isn’t the “one and only true Church on the face of the earth”, than what the heck is Ballard rambling about? His words simply become incoherent rhetoric, that are completely meaningless.

Let me ask the question, What is the “main” purpose of temples? To do work for the dead, right? Why do we need to do that? Because the Mormon Church is the only true Church on the face of the planet and everyone that has ever lived, needs a Mormon Baptism, initiatory works, a new name, to be endowed and sealed, etc.

If the Mormon Church isn’t indeed the only true Church on the earth, than what is the purpose for temples? Why spend literally hundreds of millions of dollars a year, every year, building structures around the world that in reality, are worthless and meaningless. What a waste of money or is it?

Appearances are everything and even if the Church isn’t growing by leaps and bounds, in order to continue growing at all, it has to have all the appearances of growing by leaps and bounds, right?

If the Mormon Church stopped building temples and even sold a few that aren’t accomplishing hardly a thing, what do you think the membership would think of that? It would be faith demoting, for sure. It would rattle a few people that would wonder what was happening. That’s my opinion.

In many cases, especially this one, perception is reality and that’s what the Mormon Church is “literally” banking on. Of course, what they spend on temples and buildings each year, hardly even touches their bottom line, so why would the Mormon hierarchy care what they are spending.

They are hoping the long term gain of tithe payers, which always spikes in an area where they build a temple, will compensate them for the cost of the temple. In many places, they are finding this not to be the case.

You see, if that premise, that the Mormon Church has banked on since 1820, when Joseph was first supposedly told these words, isn’t true, then everything begins to unravel quickly and crash to the ground.

The Mormon Church can’t exist without this teaching since it is one of their most important, precious beliefs that they have, since it came directly from the lips of Jesus in The First Vision. God the Father and Jesus Christ, spoke directly to Joseph Smith, in the flesh, in the woods, wouldn’t that be extremely important?

So was Jesus lying? Was he speaking in parables? did Joseph here him wrong? Was it written wrong? Was Joseph still shook up from his experience with Satan, right before the First Vision and therefore misunderstood?

Considering that this has been in the official cannon of “Mormon scriptures” for a very long time, plus, with the 2nd witness of this teaching being The Book of Mormon, and also confirmed by the D&C, the answer is obviously no.

Now, a few quotes from Hinckley to give us even greater insight into what would happen to the Church if The Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith were discovered not to be true.

“Do we as Latter-day Saints really understand and appreciate the strength of our position? Among the religions of the world, it is unique and wonderful.”

“We declare without equivocation that God the Father and His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, appeared in person to the boy Joseph Smith.”

When I was interviewed by Mike Wallace on the 60 Minutes program, he asked me if I actually believed that. I replied, “Yes, sir. That’s the miracle of it.”

“That is the way I feel about it. OUR WHOLE STRENGTH RESTS ON THE VALIDITY OF THAT VISION. IT EITHER OCCURRED OR IT DID NOT OCCUR. IF IT DID NOT, THEN THIS WORK IS A FRAUD. If it did, then it is the most important and wonderful work under the heavens.

“Reflect upon it, my brethren and sisters. For centuries the heavens remained sealed. Good men and women, not a few—really great and wonderful people—tried to correct, strengthen, and improve their systems of worship and their body of doctrine. To them I pay honor and respect. How much better the world is because of their bold action. While I believe their work was inspired, it was not favored with the opening of the heavens, with the appearance of Deity.”

“Upon that unique and wonderful experience stands the validity of this Church.”

“In all of recorded religious history there is nothing to compare with it…”

“It is easy to see why people do not accept this account. It is almost beyond comprehension. And yet it is so reasonable…”

(Even Joseph Smith said that he wouldn’t believe it if he hadn’t lived it. But, we are supposed to believe it, when even Joseph Smith wouldn’t have, had he lived when we now live?)

“I knew a so-called intellectual who said the Church was trapped by its history. My response was that without that history we have nothing. The truth of that unique, singular, and remarkable event is the pivotal substance of our faith…”

Gordon B. Hinckley, “The Marvelous Foundation of Our Faith,” Ensign, Nov. 2002, 78Loyalty

Finally, the video clip and this quote was shared at the Joseph Smith extravaganza birthday bash, from this past July, in reference to those of us that question the validity of the First Vision.

In Gordon B. Hinkley’s, “My Testimony,” Ensign, Nov. 1993, 51, he said the following:

“I thank my Father in Heaven for the testimony I have of the reality of the First Vision. I have stood among the trees where Joseph knelt as a boy, and heard the whisperings of the Spirit that it happened as he said it happened. I have read the words of critics, who from 1820 until now have tried to destroy the validity of that account. They have made much of the fact that there were SEVERAL versions and that the account as we now have it WAS NOT WRITTEN UNTIL 1838. SO WHAT? I find security for my faith in the simplicity of his narrative, in its lack of argument, in its straightforward reasonableness, and in the fact that he sealed his testimony with his life’s blood. Could there have been a stronger endorsement?”

(We could discuss in another thread why, exactly Joseph died, and what could have been the reasons as to why everyone hated him and wanted him killed. It wasn’t simply to seal his testimony of The Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith and the first vision with his blood, it goes much, much deeper that that.)

And to attempt to finally wrap up this long post(sorry John for the length), I wanted to include Hinckley’s responses on Larry King, regarding what happens to people, that are “speaking out” like we are right now, or even discussing this kind of stuff, plus, how he feels about other religions. What we are all doing in this forum, is not allowed or encouraged by the Church.

It’s kind of like when people used to have study groups in their homes, well, the Church put a quick kibosh on that, while officially outlawing them, didn’t they? Be warned, the same thing is coming for the Internet. The problem is, that it’s impossible to control over the Internet.

However, for anyone that has anything they are questioning and wants to remain in the Church, I wouldn’t suggest using your real name on here or any forum, if you have any intention of not being disciplined and punished.

Now, while we are on the subject, back to Hinckley on Larry King…..

Larry King: Are people ever thrown out of your church?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Yes.

Larry King: For?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Doing what they shouldn’t do, preaching false doctrine, speaking out publicly. They can carry all the opinion they wish WITHIN THEIR HEADS, so to speak,BUT IF THEY BEGIN TO TRY TO PERSUADE OTHERS, THEY MAY BE CALLED IN FOR A DISCIPLINARY COUNCIL. We don’t excommunicate many, but we do some. (So much for free agency eh?)


Larry King: So you should refer to, and read from three books?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Three books: Old testament, New Testament and the Book of Mormon.

Larry King: That’s three books, right?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Yes, yes, yes.

Larry King: When someone only preaches the New Testament, are they in error?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Oh, I don’t know they’re in error. They’re going as far as they feel disposed to go.

Larry King: And the Old Testament as far as they feel disposed to go?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Yes.

Larry King: And you’re saying to them, bring your faith with you, right?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Sure.

Larry King: You’re not saying, leave your Catholicism. (Let me jump in here and answer for Hinckley, YES, that is exactly what we are saying!!)

Gordon B. Hinckley: I say this to other people: you develop all the good you can. We have no animosity toward any other church. We do not oppose other churches. We never speak negatively of other churches. We say to people: you bring all the good that you have, and let us see if we can add to it.

(The statements that, ” We do not oppose other churches” or “We never speak negatively of other churches” is disingenuous at the least and a bold faced lie at the worst. All one has to do is read the First Vision or The Book of Mormon, which apparently Hinckley hasn’t done lately. Hopefully he’s taking his own challenge on that.)

Hinckley on Larry King Sept 1998

Well, I lied, one more thing for people to watch and consider, that to me, shows the deception that is currently in play. I told you that I’ve been pondering this exact issue for 6 months now.

Anyways, this is the Stake President that appeared on the Today show a week or so ago. It’s about a 6 minute clip, but toward the end, Matt Lauer, asks Brent Belnap, the SP, a very specific question, about missionary work in developing nations.

He says that “it has been controversial and a lot of people wonder if when the missionaries are preaching to these people, if they are teaching that the Church of Latter-Day Saints is the only path to God and salvation or are you presenting it as an alternative?”

Well, guess what Brent Belnap says? You’ve got it, he says that it is more of an alternative and that people are free to choose, just like other Churches. Again, he is either lying, being disingenuous or not familiar with official Church doctrines, including the First Vision and The Book of Mormon. I don’t know why I continue to be surprised, but this one really surprised me, once again.

While it is true that people can choose, he certainly neglects explaining the dire consequences of not choosing the Mormon Church. We are talking about someone’s salvation and Eternal Life, aren’t we? What happens to someone that has the chance to choose the Mormon’s and doesn’t? That’s another topic that deserves it’s own thread.

If Mormonism is now just an alternative religion and place were people can simply add to the good they already have, I would say that things have changed dramatically and that they are throwing out The First Vision, Joseph Smith and The Book of Mormon.

I would suggest that people start saving themselves 10% of their income on this alternative and free up their time for Family or a hobby or something. After all, if it isn’t that big of a deal anymore, then we should treat it as such.

He also didn’t take the opportunity to be honest and say, that he, and the Mormon Hierarchy, going all the way back to Joseph Smith, believe that they are the only true Church on the earth and that all of the other Churches are of the devil, Mother’s of harlots and whores of all the earth. I wonder why?

It’s straight out of the most correct, powerful book in the whole world with the “fullness” of the Gospel. He didn’t mention that all of the other Churches are false, their creeds are abominations and their preachers are corrupt.

Maybe he didn’t say it, because the Mormon Hierarchy doesn’t believe that anymore? Could it be? Are they actually going to go there? Will Mormonism one day just be another mainstream Christian sect? You have to believe that this SP, was prepped for this interview. It wouldn’t be allowed for him to just go on a national talk show, without the Hierarchy knowing about it and preparing him.

Link to the Today Show video

Well, by all intents and appearances, the Mormon Church appears to be going 100% mainstream already. Maybe that would also help explain their massive efforts in building up their real estate portfolio, while spending Billions of Jesus’ dollars and allowing alcohol to be served in Jesus’ mall?

I guess the response that I would have liked to have heard, wouldn’t have gone over too well. Yet, it is reality and what the Mormon Church really believes, isn’t it? Like Hinckley mentioned as quoted above, “OUR WHOLE STRENGTH RESTS ON THE VALIDITY OF THAT VISION.”


It’s pretty obvious to me, that they are heading in a vastly different direction than where they’ve come from, including sacrificing their very core values, in exchange for financial compensation. I would say that yes, they do sell their tokens for money, and lots of it.

Hinckley also said that he, “knew a so-called intellectual who said the Church was trapped by its history. My response was that without that history we have nothing.”

Again, he/they, can’t have it both ways. To once again quote Hinckley, completely “in context” by the way, “Each of us has to face the matter—either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the Church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing.”

So, according to Hinckley, the Church is not trapped by their history, rather, they embrace it and without it, they have nothing. “THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND!!” EITHER IT’S TRUE OR A FRAUD, ACCORDING TO HINCKLEY.

So, how does the Church, on a regular basis, omit, or not talk about about so many things in their history if they are indeed so proud of it and would be nothing without it?

I beg to differ with that statement. In reality The Church is nothing, when a lot of their history is discovered, discussed and given relevance. That’s the problem. They are running from what they supposedly embrace and can’t live without.

Well, I lied again, I just had a couple of other quotes pop into my head from a BYU Professor. He said, regarding the Book of Mormon, calling it the Anti-Mormon approach, “if Joseph Smith made the book up, then it’s peoples did not exist, it’s events did not happen and there should be no trace of them anywhere!!”

Yeah, that about covers it, doesn’t it? I’m not hearing of too many traces out there or even good, solid leads to anything of substance in regards to Book of Mormon artifacts. Where is The Book of Mormon Exhibit? Where is the display in the Church’s History museum, showing off all of the remnants from the Hill Cumorah, from those great, legendary battles? Last I looked, back in July, still missing.

Then he said, “if after a reasonable time of searching, material evidence is not found, then The Book of Mormon would be shown to be imaginary and by implication, Joseph Smith would be exposed as a liar and The Mormon Church unveiled as a hoax.”(Looks like he’s learned something from Hinckley, heading down the “it would then be a fraud road.”)

Then he explains that “The Book of Mormon is the keystone of “Mormonism” and that if you can destroy that stone, all the rest that it supports, will come crashing down.”

Link to my blog and the audio of this BYU Professor’s speech

AMEN, I second that statement as well and I believe that what he describes is beginning to happen and it will only be a matter of time, before it happens big time.

I completely agree with Hinckley, that “there is no middle ground.” “Either it’s all true or all a fraud.” After much intensive study and using one of Hinckley’s two options, I’ve obviously come to the conclusion that it is all indeed a fraud.

It is a complete hoax, perpetuated on the world, beginning with Joseph Smith and continued on through Gordon B. Hinckley today.

If what Hinckley says is true, that the Mormon Church has nothing without it’s History and that “there is no middle ground” and that “it is the Church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing”, I would say they have big problems and it is nothing.

First of all I would like to know why they have FARMS and partner up with FAIR, sharing links back and forth on their websites, etc. It should all be crystal clear, right? Why all of the confusion, if it is so clear cut?

Why have organizations like FARMS at all, which are officially part of BYU, since 1997, when Hinckley spoke and said, “I wish to express my strong congratulations and appreciation for those who started this effort and who have shepherded it to this point?” He concluded by noting that he sees, “a bright future for this effort now through the university.”

I’m just wondering where the inspiration is, from a supposed modern day, living oracle of God. Can’t he help Hinckley out with the location of the city of Zarahemla for example.

Could Hinckley please explain to us why there is nothing inside or around the Hill Cumorah, that would lead us to believe that millions of people died there, along with their swords, breastplates, shields, helmets, clubs, bows, arrows, etc? Where is everything? How did it just disappear?

Where are these caves and caverns in the Hill Cumorah that had rooms stacked with golden plates and Laban’s sword? Did God just twitch his nose and make it all disappear? Why doesn’t he do that with everything then, including the Bible artifacts and places?

Why would it be a bad thing if these things were easily found. Who wouldn’t want to be a Mormon? Can you imagine? Oh yeah, I forgot, we need to live by spiritual proof, not actual proof than can be seen. Sorry about that. We shouldn’t be sign seekers.

If there are actually two Hill Cumorahs, one of the theories now being championed, Hinckley should tell the world where the other one is and how the plates got to the one in New York, right? Then we can go excavate it and shock and amaze the world with complete proof of the validity of the BOM, once and for all.

The problem is, that it has been stated over and over, even by the First Presidency in 1990, that THE HILL CUMORAH in New York, is THE HILL CUMORAH from the BOM which also includes the hill that the Jaredites called RAMAH. It is one in the same. Oops, big problem!!

You see, they can never, ever, officially, embrace a “two Hill Cumorah” theory, because it would contradict every General Authority, all the way back to Joseph Smith, that ever said it was the ONLY HILL CUMORAH. Mormon Hierarchy, you have a big problem on your hands.

Here is a link to a copy of that official 1990 letter

Oh, I’m sorry, God wants to try peoples faith, I keep forgetting, so I guess he took all of the evidence back to heaven, right? Give me a break!!

How can a “true Prophet, Seer and Revelator” of Jesus’ Church, the one and only true Church on the face of the planet earth, with all the keys to receive revelation, not even have a single clue about Book of Mormon geography or archeology?

I guess that I hold the Mormon Prophet, to a higher level than most, but then that is what I was taught for my whole life. What good are all of those keys and titles that he supposedly holds, if you can’t receive revelation for something so simple and basic?

Of course, that doesn’t stop him from receiving “important” revelations on “how many earrings” a woman wears, canceling Missionary Homecomings and Farewells, etc.

If anyone doubts that this simple suggestion on earrings has not become a rule and commandment, just go listen or read Bednar’s talk and check out the example he uses. It blows my mind and leaves no doubt how important it is.

After all, as Bednar said, “The young man waited patiently over a period of time for the young woman to remove her extra earrings, but she did not take them out. This was a valuable piece of information for this young man, and he felt unsettled about her nonresponsiveness to a prophet’s pleading.”

You see,it has now gone from Hinckley “suggesting it”, to a dramatic,”Prophet’s pleading.”

Audio of Bednar on the importance of the earring commandment

The Text of Bednar’s Earring Speech

You would think that Hinckley would know everything that needed to be known about everything, including the Book of Mormon and that Jesus would tell him when and what to release to the world. You know, the milk before the meat thing?

Then again, if it’s all a hoax, and a giant fraud, that may clear things up considerably and help us to understand all of these things very easily and rapidly.

Again, given a choice, after much study and pondering and common sense, I’m gonna take Hinckley’s second option and declare again, that I’ve discovered the Mormon Church to be a complete fraud.

The Mormon Church is without a shred of physical evidence to prove it’s validity, except a bunch of people with warm fuzzy feelings burning in their bosom. May I suggest some Tums or Rolaids. You may just have acid reflux or something.

Of course, that is what they taught us we will feel from the time we were little kids, so we all naturally felt it and wanted to feel it. We were deeply programmed from our youth, those of us that were born into the Mormon Church that is. Interesting isn’t it?

Take care everyone, sorry for this ridiculously long post, but I had a lot to say and I’m very passionate about these things, since I spent over 30 years, believing them with nothing but a burning bosom to prove them. I guess this is a blog and there are no limits and I just felt the need to write this. For those that don’t want to read it, that’s fine, they can just scroll down to the next response below mine.

Again, John, I want to personally thank you and your comments for inspiring me and motivating me to write this post. I felt that it was worth my time. I didn’t know that I had it in me, as lately, I’ve just kind of been chilling and thinking about things while taking a little break from my writing. I guess you reignited the fire. Thanks again for that John!!

I hope that all is well with you and yours and that you will be able to find the “true peace”, that you are seeking, whether in the Mormon Church or out of it. I only sincerely wish you the best. We all have to find that place in this world where we are happy and comfortable and sometimes that’s not easy to do.

I feel like the Mormon Church has lied and betrayed me, along with my Family and Friends and is now driving wedges between us due to my “apostate beliefs.” Everyone is praying for my soul, which is now possibly possessed by the devil.;) They fear for me and know that we won’t be together in the next life, that is, unless I return to “the only true Church on the face of the earth. Remember, there are only 2 Churches and now a part of the whore of all the earth I guess. As Hinckley would say, isn’t it wonderful?

The Mormon fire, in my bosom at least, has been extinguished big time. I now have an intellectual and emotional burning fire, to help as many people as possible to know what I now know.

Now, I just use my brain and common sense, to wade through these inconsistencies and contradictions that used to require a very high degree of cognitive dissonance to try to understand. Now it all makes sense and is so much easier to comprehend, at least for me.

Thanks for your time everyone, especially John. I wish everyone the best in their journey and studies. I hope that this post has helped at least one person out there, that is looking for clarity and understanding.

With regards,

Samuel the Utahnite

Well, that's my response and I feel that it is a pretty damn good one!! I could even write more, but I feel that what I expressed, supported by the examples and links, is pretty solid and I would love to debate anyone that says that they Mormon Church doesn't proclaim to be the one and oonly true Church on the face of the earth. Of course, The Church and Hinckley, along with this Stake President from the Today Show, are now trying to mainstream and back away from such strong staements even though they occureed in the First Vision of Joseph Smith, which is of course, the entire foundation of the Church upone which everthing is built.

If they no longer believe and can't proclaim to the world that these words are true, or if they are now embarrassed or ashamed by Joseph Smith's words, that he claims came directly from Jesus Christ, then Hinckley, this Stake President and anyone else that backs away from these words, in my opinion, is saying that the Church isn't true. Thank you Hinckley once again for admitting what so many of us already know. Thank you Hinckley for admitting that even you don't have a testimony of this cult, which you lead. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if it wasn't for Hinckley and his piss poor answers on interviews with Larry King and others, I might still be a member of the Mormon cult. Thanks to him, I began to have questions that I never had before and to research and study about these questions and couldn't believe what I found. So here I am, free of the Mormon cult and Now I just want to help as many people as aI can to leave this disease of Mormonism.

I watched a show tonight on the History channel regarding cults and Mormon's were one of the cults featured, along with Jim Jones, Heaven's gate, Temple something, some guy that created Satan's Church, etc. I felt that it was very appropiate to link and include the Mormon Church with these other death cults. That is where Mormonism belongs. It is an evil death cult that once asked their members
to agree to slit their throats, rather than reveal the secrets of the temple. I'm grateful that the History channel saw fit to lump Mormonism in with these other horrible and evil cults.

Well guys, I better wrap it up but I have a lot to add this week, both here on my blog and on my podcasts. You guys are gonna love what I have to share and expose this week and I can't wait to write it and say it. Just when you think that it can't get any worse, new things pop up that you won't believe, to go with the other stuff that I already wanted to say. This cult knows no shame and will go to any length, to maintain their fraud and perpetuate their lies.

I'm actually wondering right now, if the Mormon Chuch Hierarchy is divided? It seems on one hand, you have the Hinckley's half-assed interview responses, the Stake President's responses on the Today Show, but then you have the new Joseph Smith website and talks like Thomas Monson's, from the last General Conference, praising Joseph Smith as a perfect example for our children to follow. The bottome line is that they all have the same goals in the end, that is to perpetuate the fraud, in order to line their pockets with more money form the membership of the Mormon Church.

Take care everyone and I'll talk to you tomorrow!!

Samuel the Utahnite

Labels: ,

Wednesday, November 16, 2005

More Suppression By The Mormon Church And A New Mission Rule For Mormon Missionaries!! Where Will It End?!!

Well, here we go again!! More rules to punish missionaries and to hopefully help the Moron Church hierarchy achieve their baptismal goals. Let me tell you something, these clowns in Salt Lake must be freaking out at this point to be taking such, what I consider to be, drastic measures. If you've been reading my blog on a regular basis, you already know about all of the other crap and "new rules" that have been implemented for missionaries and also regular members, to punish them for not producing baptisms. This new rule actually punishes both the Missionaries and the Members at the same time.

My guess and from what I hear, is that the numbers for this year are way down and the Mormon Hierarchy knows that if this continues, it will shake the faith of the Saints, even the die-hards would have to question it. Many members, as I used to do, love to use the number game to prove to the world that the Church is true. In other words, the whole "fastest growing Church" in the world BS. Many members of the Mormon Church, hang their testimony on that belief.

I remember when baptisms were over 300,000 a year but now this past year, it was around 200,000 and I bet for this year, it will be well under 200,000 and dropping every year. What happened to the rock that is filling the earth that Mormons love to quote? It appears to have hit a snag!! See, that's what I'm saying, baptisms are supposed to be increasing and getting higher and higher, not decreasing. At one point, there were around 58,000 plus missionaries, but now, it's under 50,000 and dropping by the year.

Things are going backward, not forward and that will be hard to explain to the membership, especially if the numbers really drop to even lower levels, which is where I think they are heading. Anyway, I would say that their is a bit of panic going on in the Church office building, AKA, The Corporation of the President. That would also explain their deep investments of billions of Jesus' sacred dollars on malls, city blocks, more cattle ranches, luxury resorts in Hawaii, housing developments, gaming preserves, large land purchases, plans to build the Utah World Trade Center, rebuilding downtown Salt Lake and Ogden,etc, etc.

Basically, these cult leaders are finding real estate ventures to be a much better, safer, long term investment, than their fraud of a religion. After all, it's not easy being a cult leader when things aren't going too well. They can see the writing on the wall and know that long term, there will be more and more problems, less and less members, which also means, less and less tithing. The one an only, entire purpose, for the existence of the Mormon Church, is to defraud people out of their money in tithes and offerings and all the other BS funds that they are asked to donate to.

Eventually, there will be an implosion, heard round the world and the Mormon Church, as we know it today, will be drastically different. You will always have your die-hards that would turn their wives and 14 year old daughters over to Hinckley today if he asked for them, just like the members did for Joseph Smith back in his day. You will always have your loyal crackpots in any religion or cult, that will never see the light. One can only hope that one day their eyes will be opened, somehow, to the reality and truth of things. It's hard to think for one's self when you have been brainwashed and programmed from the time you were a little kid singing songs and bearing your testimony that you knew the Church was true and that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God.

It blows my mind as I reflect on how this whole process works and that nobody notices. Why didn't I see it? Why don't more people see it? It's so obvious to the real world and any outsider that has the ability to be rational and see things for what they are. I'm just so grateful that either by the grace of God or some other force in the universe or for whatever reason, I was able to break free from the Mormon cult chains that held me prisoner for over 30 years. Anyway, here are the new rules that I promised you as reported this week by a current Mormon missionary.

He said:

"Also, there is a new mission rule - no dinner appointments unless an investigator is present. It sounds like a hard rule but it is good because now members try to get their neighbors over so they can have us there too. It will take a little while for the members to get used to it but overall it is a good thing."

So, now, according to this new rule, it is better for Missionaries to starve, not have interaction with the members, unless their is a chance to convert somebody into the cult. I think this seemingly little rule goes very deep, much deeper than it first appears to go. Let's just think about this for a minute; In most cases, many members love having the Missionaries over to eat and see it as a duty from God. They used to have sign up lists to feed the missionaries, but not anymore. Now, the members are given a choice. Either don't feed the Missionaries or break the new mission rule and be punished by God. They are basically guilting and forcing the members to intrude on their friends and neighbor's lives, in order, to have the privilege, of feeding the missionaries. If they don't comply with the Cult Leaders new instructions, then they are SOL!!

Now, for those that have read my other post on
what a Bishop recently said to a congregation, this should come as no surprise whatsoever. The Mormon cult is ramping up their efforts big time, for a big end of the year push, for numbers, so that they can have a great or at least better report in the April General Conference. Keep in mind the big Joseph Smith birthday party planned for December 23rd. Hinckley will be at Joseph Smith's birthplace while his other cronies will be back in Salt Lake in The Conference Center celebrating the birthday bash. Wouldn't it be cool if Joseph Smith made a special appearance with Hinckley? They are obviously freaking out about where they are at the moment, numbers wise and creating new rules, condemning members, etc, to try to guilt, shame, force and coerce the membership, in the name of God, to help them achieve their goals. Wow, it sounds just like what Joseph Smith and Brigham Young did, doesn't it? As they say, the more things change, the more they stay the same, especially in Mormonism. It may be 2005 but it feels like 1830 all over again.

Now, one other thing that I wanted to share from this letter. He said, "...as a mission they have told us that we have to buy food as an apartment, instead of each missionary buying and cooking on his own. This was hard at first, because each person likes different food. So, we tried for a while to have the companionships take turns buying things. This worked out alright, although we weren’t eating that good of food (corn dogs and cheese quesadillas )."


So, now, the Mormon Church, is even forcing Missionaries, that live in an apartment together, "to buy food as an apartment, instead of each missionary buying and cooking on his own." What a joke!! Good hell, why don't the force them to eat at exactly the same time, in the same place, using only the right hand, etc. I bet the next set of rules, will be a food list, directly from Salt Lake, inspired from God of course, telling them what, exactly they can eat and an exact list of what meals to eat and prepare for each week, month, year, etc. It will also come with a warning; if they don't abide by the list, God will punish them and they won't have as many baptisms. This is incredible!!

Just let the guys buy and eat whatever the hell they want.. damn!! They are already controlling almost every single damn aspect of these missionaries life and now they need to control their food purchasing and what they eat. But, according to some other things that I've been reading lately, Mormon Missionaries are barely making it on the amount of money that is given to them each month. So, basically, the Mormon Church is screwing their Families out of $400/ month and then deciding how much money each missionary gets. So, maybe they should have $300/month but the Mormon cult decides that $200 should be sufficient for their needs. It makes me sick!!

Meanwhile, they, the Mormon cult Hierarchy, pocket the rest. Of course, we'll never know, because all of their finances are a "big secret." I would love to see an in-depth report, showing how much money Families of Missionaries pay each month/year and how much of that fund is then given to the missionaries and where every penny goes. If you have 50,000 missionaries and all of their Families are forking out $400/month, $4800/year, that amounts to $20 million/ month and $240 million/year.

Don't tell me that the Mormon Church isn't also profiting from this $240 million/year while withholding from missionaries, as much as they possibly can, in order to maximize their profits, even causing some of them to go hungry. They don't give a damn!! When the Mormon Church came up with this equal payment plan, it had nothing to do with making things "equal", but everything to do with finding yet another way to line their greedy cult pockets. I'm pretty sure it was the Hincksters idea, wasn't it?

On top of this, the Mormon Church has the Missionary Fund that people are asked to donate to as well and that covers any of the Missionaries that can't pay their own way. I'm sure that there is absolutely nothing out of pocket for the Mormon cult Hierarchy when it comes to day to day operations of Missionaries, the Church, building costs,etc. Everything is 100% covered by the Members!! They are profiting big time and that doesn't even include all of their financial investments.

Wake up people!! See the Mormon Church/cult, for what it is!! It is a greedy, selfish, evil organization that is one big massive cult in disguise of a Church, that robs from the poor, to sustain their Kings, The Mormon Hierarchy. The Mormon Church is Robin Hood in reverse. They lie and deceive the membership, in the name of God, their God and Joseph Smith, in order to extricate as much money as possible from the Membership and even the poor. These evil men, the Mormon Church Hierarchy, then laugh all the way to the bank, as they jet around the world as celebrities dining in the finest of restaurants.

They use your money to stay in Five star hotels that you can only dream about staying in. They wear $2,000 suits, with $500 shoes and $200 ties, while telling you to pay your tithing. They travel in luxury, first class, private jets, live in spacious mansion like homes, again, while telling you that you can't be with God and your Family, nor go to The Lord's holy $30 million + house, unless you are a full tithe payer. Isn't it so obvious what is happening here? Wake Up!!

As I've mentioned before, Hinckley has worked for the Church basically since he was a 19 year old missionary. Soon after his mission, he met with the First Presidency to report on Europe and his future with the Morg, was launched. He has never had a single financial concern his entire life, but he can demand that poor people, after a hurricane took everything they owned, including their clothes, food and house, to pay their tithing?

How much does the Church pay Hinckley each year, in addition to giving him a $2 million condo? Let's see, oh yeah, WE DON'T KNOW!! Again, it's a secret!! A top secret!! Why don't these clowns reveal what their compensation is? It's because there would be an uproar in the Mormon Church, the likes of which, has never been seen before. That's why they don't release their financial information, even to the members that pay it. Hinckley flat out lied about this when he did that interview with the German reporter by insinuating that that information was for those that paid the money. LIAR!!

Hinckley's exact quote, when asked why the Mormon Church doesn't make public their finances, was "WELL, WE SIMPLY THINK THAT THE…THAT INFORMATION BELONGS TO THOSE WHO MADE THE CONTRIBUTION, AND NOT TO THE WORLD. THAT'S THE ONLY THING. YES."(I would add, that is indeed the ONLY thing, but you don't do it, NO!! Time to practice what you preach Hinckley. Quit lying!!)

So, does the Mormon God allow his Prophet, to blatantly lie to the world? The answer is yes he does and it started with Joseph Smith when he denied that he was a polygamist and Hinckley is simply continuing on with the great tradition and legacy of the "I'm Greater than Jesus" Joseph Smith.

Anyway, I've written enough for now but hopefully what I've written today will open up at least one person's eyes to the Mormon fraud and reality. This stuff greatly angers me and just makes me even more determined to share the truth and help everyone that needs or wants help. When I first began my journey out of Mormonism and discovered that Mormonism was a fraud, several people asked me why it made me so mad? I'll say the same thing that I said back then, "How could you know these things and not be mad and outraged." Obviously, everyone has the right to feel however they want but I just can't fathom how these things wouldn't upset people just like they can't seem to fathom why they would upset me. I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree on this one.

Take care everyone, I'll probably be back later on today with a great post on M. Russell Ballard. I talked about him in my first podcast for those that have already listened. I also wanted to add it to my blog as well, along with some other insights I have on him and his pathetic talk at a Stake Conference that I attended a couple of weeks ago. Also, I've decided that my next podcast, my third one, will be all about Joseph Smith. I'm going to discuss many of the horrible things that he did and said and then ask the question, is this how a true Prophet of God would act. You're all gonna like it, I promise.

Now, I realize that many of you out there already know all or many of these things, or most of these things, but keep in mind that there are a whole lot of people out there, that may be listening in, that aren't aware of these things yet. We want to educate and help those people to discover and know the truth and to know what we now know. I'll probably record the "Joseph Smith Podcast" later tonight for those that want to listen to it.

Talk to everyone later and thanks for your support!! I hope that you are enjoying the podcasts.

Samuel the Utahnite

Labels: ,

Tuesday, November 15, 2005

The "Mormon Truth Podcast" Is Up And Running. I've Already Posted The First Two Shows!! I Hope That You Guys Like it!!

Well, I finally get to the post that I've been anticipating and excited to write!! Yes, as the title of this post says and the links to the right show, my podcast is up and running and I'm very excited about it. I had to figure out how it all worked and how to set it all up but it's good to go now and easy for you all of you to find and subscribe to, if you just follow the links. I hope that a majority of Mormon Truth readers will subscribe to my show or at least listen to them. The site where they are actually posted is on ourmedia.org and I'm extremely grateful to them for making this possible and so easy to do.

I also want to thank archive.org, that is a partner with Our media and where my shows will also be archived FOREVER. My kids and grandkids someday, will be able to go online and listen to my shows when I'm not even here on this earth any longer. You can also leave a review for each of my shows on the archive.org site if you are so inclined. So far, I've had 64 people listen to my first show and 28 to my 2nd show in just the few days that it has been listed there.

Now, I also have a new blog over on "our media" that is for all of you to comment on the show and I appreciate any of your comments, ideas, critiques, questions that you want me to answer on my show, etc. For each show, I'll start a post that is specifically for your comments on the show. You can either post your comments on the main Group weblog or on the actual audio page of each podcast, it's up to you. The link on the audio page, is at the very bottom for comments. Now, on the "our media" site, I've also started a
forum for people who are in transition or currently in the process of leaving the Church, to be able to share their feelings and experiences that they are currently going through. It's just there for those that may want or need to share.

Now I should also mention that you have to be registered with Ourmedia in order to post comments, so I've created an alternative place for you to all make your comments if you don't want to register with Ourmedia, which I understand. I just simply added another blog here on blogspot, called
"Mormon Truth Podcast" and you can comment there until your hearts content. I know that many of you have emailed me and asked for me to open the comment sections on my blog, so this is for you...LOL. Finally, right?!! My Email has always been available for everyone and I received hundreds of emails, but now you can comment directly on my shows.

I'm still not gonna open up the comment section on my blog here, but you'll have your shot to say what you want to say on my podcast page. Maybe I'll even open up a page on my "Mormon Truth Podcast" page, where you guys can also comment on my blog or whatever you want to comment on. As you can tell, I'm figuring this out as I write...LOL.

Now, I'll be responding in both places but at least on blogspot, you won't have to register. In fact, as I'm setting all of this up, maybe I should just make that the main place for everyone to respond and keep it all in one place. So, I guess, as I think about it, everyone should just respond on the
"Mormon Truth Podcast" page but it's up to you guys, I'll find you in either place. In any case, I will appreciate everyone's comments and will try to respond to as many as I can. At least everyone has an option, including those that just want to be anonymous but still be able to express their views and opinions.

I just wanted to say to everyone, that I wanted to put in the time, set all of this up and do my podcast, in addition to my blog, in order to maximize my efforts on more than one front, in order to help as many people as possible. I just want to feel that I'm doing all that I can to help those people that are still in the Mormon Church but on the fence. I want to help those people that are out of Mormonism, but are having a hard time coping with their life and entire social structure collapsing and in some cases, having lost their Families and Friends, including Parents, Brothers, Sisters, Wife and Children.

Yes, this is a deep passion for me!! I have felt and seen first hand the pain that one goes through on discovering that the Mormon Church isn't really what they taught us it was, for our entire life and in fact, it is nothing more than a fraud and a cult that destroys our personal relationships with loved ones in the end, if we leave and they stay. At this time in my life, I have the free time that many people don't, to dedicate to this personal mission of mine and I plan to do so for the rest of my days here on this earth. It will always be one of my goals and passions and a top priority in my life.

I greatly appreciate everyone's support, Emails and kind words. I'm very grateful for anyone that I've been able to help with my words, views and opinions. The last 6 months has been a real process for me and I've learned so much and been helped so much, by so many different people and I want to thank all of you for your help and support as well. Writing this very blog has been a very healing experience for me and sometimes I can't believe how much I have written. It has been wonderful to talk about and discuss, the very things that I could never talk or even ask about in the Mormon Church. 95% of what I've said on my blog would have gotten me tossed out on my ear for sure.

Questioning, especially deep questioning, simply isn't allowed in the Mormon Church. It has been so nice to be able to come here, to my little place in cyberspace, and share with all of you, my innermost thoughts, feelings, opinions and ideas. I had no idea what exactly I was gonna do when I first opened up "Mormon Truth", but I soon figured it out and here we are. It has been about 3 and a half months and we've had over 6,000 visitors that have read nearly 11,000 pages.

Thanks to all of you that have visited Mormon Truth, maybe referred someone else to this site, etc. You all gave me the motivation to keep it going and keep writing. I didn't know if anyone would even read what I was writing but it has been a great learning experience for me.

In the very near future, I'm also going to start having guests on my shows through skype, once I learn about it, download it and get it all set up. That's my next project for tomorrow. I really look forward to having as many of you guys on my show as possible. You will be able to share your stories and feelings with all the listeners and maybe feel better in the process. Sometimes, it just helps to talk to somebody else that understands and can empathize with what you are personally going through. I hope that my show, can be an avenue to help people unload and express their feelings and in turn feel better about things.

I really hope to develop a nice community here, where we can help one another and not criticize each other. Of course we are all going to have different ideas or opinions on things from time to time, but hopefully we can overlook those differences and focus on just helping one another and the basic fact that we are all coming form a similar place with similar goals and desires. I guess what I'm saying, is that we don't need any pathetic Mormon Apologists or ignorant, rude, Ex-Mormons and yes, as witnessed by my last post, they do exist.

Not everyone that is an Ex-Mo, is on our side or willing to be supportive, understanding or even decent. Again, everyone is welcome to listen to my show, read my blog, etc, but if you come in here trying to stir up trouble, well, you'll be treated as such and I'm sure that it will be returned by the awesome readers and now future listeners of Mormon Truth. It's kind of like me going over to FAIR and being a complete ass and going off on people; Do you think that I'd receive a positive response?!! Ha Ha Ha, I think not!!

Anyway, that's all I've got for now but it was plenty. Once again, this post was much longer than I ever dreamed it would be, but I seem to always have more to say than I think I do. That's the beauty of having my blog, I can just start writing and see where I end up. Thanks again, enjoy the podcasts and I look forward to your comments. Also, for those of you that would like to be on a show, just email me at
Samueltheuthanite@yahoo.com and I'll get back to you and find out your time frame and then work out when we can do it.

I plan on doing several shows a week if not more, so I should have plenty of opportunity to have a whole bunch of you on, just let me know if you're interested. Things may be a little crazy for me between now and the end of the year, with the Holidays and everything, but we'll work it out. Once the new year begins, I'll have much more time on my hands for sure.

Also, on other note, I'm more interested in having normal, everyday people on my show, instead of well known Ex-Mormons or some type of expert on Mormonism or Ex-Mormon celebrity, because I want the focus to be on us normal people. Now, if there is a well known Ex-Mormon out there, I'll fit you in somewhere for sure but I just wanted to be clear that getting well known people on the show wasn't my goal. I just don't ever want it to be the type of show or place where normal, everyday people, don't feel welcome or wanted. On the other hand, you will be my priority and the show was created for you, for us. I love how Mike and Hyrum have done their show on the
Church is not true, with a good mix of normal members along with an expert or two here and there. It works perfectly!!

I'm hoping at some point to be on their show and also be able to have them on Mormon Truth. That would be a lot of fun for sure and very entertaining!! I'll have to add the explicit label to my shows when they are on it...LOL!! I laugh because I guess they've had people complain about that and their swearing, etc, but I don't have a problem with it and that's why I make my show for 18+ and with adult content. You never know when I might get really pissed about something and go off...LOL. Better safe than sorry, right? LOL!!

Anyway, take care guys, I'll say goodbye again, but this time for real.


Samuel the Utahnite

Labels: ,

Monday, November 14, 2005

Mormon Recovery Board(RFM) Rolls Out The Red Carpet For The Rude And Abusive Steve Benson While Condemning Infymus And The Mormon Curtain!!

The events of the last week or so, regarding RFM, are unbelievable and disgraceful!! The events regarding Steve Benson, go back several months. I deeply regret having to make this post, because of all of the wonderful and nice people that post over on RFM, and that have helped me and taught me so much, but holy hell, give me a break, enough is enough and I have had it. This post is by no means, any reflection on the great people over on RFM that do help many others and teach us all so much. I will be forever indebted to those great people who have taught me so much on RFM, both through posting and personal Emails.

I also want to publicly thank RFM and those awesome people for all of the help and knowledge that they have given me but sadly, I can't take the favoritism and hypocrisy that is currently happening over there right now. I'm sure that Susan and Eric are good people, trying to do a good thing and I thank them for their site and the help that it has given me, but they simply aren't playing fair with their posters. Different rules apply to different people, all depending, I'm guessing, on what your last name is and how famous you are in the Ex-Mo community.

All the rules should apply equally to all the posters but sadly, that is not what is happening. I just counted the posts and in the last 10 days, there are 259 posts that mention Steve Benson and 189 are Steve Benson's posts that he wrote. So, in the last 10 days, he has posted an average of 19 times a day. And Susan and Eric wonder were all their bandwidth is going and why it's so high? I don't think it's too hard to figure out with those numbers. Steve Benson has basically taken over RFM and made it his personal amusement park, apparently with the blessings of Eric and Susan, since they have done nothing to stop it. Unfortunately, it is being done at the expense of some good people that are ridiculed and belittled on a regular basis by Steve Benson, as the moderators just sit and watch.

Now, leaving RFM for me isn't just about Steve Benson but that would be one of my main reasons at this point. His nastiness, rudeness and ego, know no bounds. Also, in addition to Steve Benson, due to the treatment of Infymus from the Mormon Curtain by Susan of RFM, who is the primary administrator over there, I have pulled my support and link to RFM. I will no longer be posting on RFM and have no desire to do so now or ever again. I'm permanently done with RFM!! I guess that makes at least 2 of us that are done with RFM as of this week. Reed Smith, a poster on RFM, also announced, as of yesterday, that he is through. Of course, this happened due to the abuse, mistreatment and overall nastiness of Steve Benson toward him.

Who knows how many people they've lost but it apparently doesn't matter as the Steve Benson show continues on. The problem with Reed Smith was that Steve didn't believe that Reed Smith was an assistant under his Uncle when he was mission President, blah, blah, blah.

If anyone wants to read the posts regarding what happened between those two last week, be my guest, Steve Benson has started yet another nauseating post in regards to the whole thing, since he can never let a subject die, especially if it directly involves him directly. Also, he is given complete and total freedom to do so, without one iota of intervention. If one of us "common posters", not what they obviously consider "Mormon Royalty", did what Steve does, we would have our post deleted almost immediately and then be asked to email Susan. That's what happens when your really naughty on RFM, Susan posts on the top to Email here. It's kind of like having to go confess and then get scolded by your Bishop.

Also, Steve's unwarranted, childish rant toward Tal Bachman, took the cake and turned many posters against him. The whole thing was just ridiculous!! Tal is a respected, funny, very knowledgeable poster, who spoke at the Ex-Mormon Convention and performed some of his music as well. Steve wanted to call Tal out for something, wasn't specific, but again, you can go search for those posts and read them for yourself, unless they are already deleted too. They whole episode was a joke and then Steve Benson tried to play it off as "he was just joking", but long after everyone was giving him hell and Tal was asking him repeatedly to explain what it was that Steve was so upset about. Basically, Steve Benson made a complete ass of himself and was trying to get back the ground that he was losing by the minute and with each post.

In any case, It's time for me to move forward to better places/things and to focus 100% on my blog here and the other things that I'm currently working on. I can probably help more people and in better ways with my blog and other things that I have planned, especially because I don't have to be worried about every word or post of mine possible being censored or stricken from the record. The censorship over on RFM has reached ridiculous levels, unless of course, your name is Steve Benson. Then you can do whatever the hell you want and say anything you want to anybody. You can attack people, cut them down, accuse them falsely, whatever you want, because you are the Great, Holy, Almighty Grandson of the Once Great, Mormon Prophet, Ezra Taft Benson. They should add a new rule to their list, "Nobody can criticize or disagree with Steve Benson." It should be number one on their list of rules and regulations.

Also, If the Administration of RFM is so damn ungrateful for people that are referring their site to others, like The Mormon Curtain, or from their website, posting remarks that are referenced back to RFM, to give them due credit, well, screw them. It's not a competition, or so I thought, but apparently it is. I have no clue why they allowed me to post my blog address on there for as long as they did, but I do sincerely thank them for that. Like I said, I went through my deconversion/deprogramming phase, on RFM, with the help of many people and their great archives on many different topics.

Just being able to vent and express my feelings and get support from most people there, was what I needed and I will always be grateful for that. RFM was instrumental in my recovery process, but with that being said, I have replaced the former link to RFM with a link to Dr. Shades UNCENSORED MORMON DISCUSSION BOARD and also, another place that I highly recommend, is POSTMORMON.ORG. I have also added several other links to some great places that you will all find very useful, especially the Tanner's site and real Mormon History.

After doing some searches on myself and Mormon Truth/Samuel the Utahnite, I realized that a moderator named Helemon, from the Post Mormon site, had posted several of my commentaries from here in Mormon Truth to his site. I greatly appreciate that very much and I'm grateful that he valued my words enough to post them there. Therefore, I wanted to post a link to his site, which is an awesome site as well. I'm very grateful for anyone that finds my words useful and helpful and is willing to share them in other places and forums. My ultimate goal is to help as many people as I can with either leaving the Mormon Church or how to cope with the pain associated with leaving the Mormon Church.

I simply want to share the truth with as many people as possible. Unsympathetic people like Steve Benson, with his cutting words, only make that process harder and set a bad example to the rest of the world of what Ex-Mormons are like. Almost all of the people that I had contact with and saw posting on RFM, seemed to be genuine, great people, that also wanted to help others. Most people are compassionate, caring, willing to help, etc, basically, they are everything that Steve Benson isn't. There is no need to act the way he acts!!

Anyway, since I just mentioned him again, back to Steve Benson for a while. I did a post on him a while back and here is a link to it for those that haven't read it. It's amazing how this self-serving guy is doing nothing but cutting down, insulting people and overall, giving us Ex-Mormons a bad name. The other baffling thing is how Susan and RFM protect this arrogant guy and his actions to the ends of the earth. There were several great posts written a few days ago, saying exactly what people thought of Mr. Benson, mostly negative, and they were erased by Susan very quickly and disappeared. One thread had about 25 comments in it and poof, gone!! Just like that!!

The nice part is though, that I saved them of course, expecting them to be erased. When I read them, I was like, hey, that won't last long!! LOL!! So, thanks to my hard drive, I am going to repost some of these comments here, so that everyone can read them and Susan can't erase them this time. Oh my, I'm sure that will be very disturbing to her, won't it? Anyway, here are the highlights of what I have saved, enjoy!!

Negative posts on Steve Benson, with no links and names removed from some to protect the innocent......LOL.....plus Susan can't say I stole them from RFM, because they don't even exist now since she erased them. I thought some great points were made.....here they are:

Subject: To keep steve happy, lets rename RFM. How about Steve Benson's RFM Date: Nov 11 03:48Author: Not a Steve Benson fan anymore, not that he cares of course

Keep in mind that it was steve that attacked Tal. Tal was just doing his thing, writing his posts and then along comes steve benson, who can't handle anybody stealing his thunder. I think he would be happy if he was the only one that ever posted here and everybody just read his short stories or embellished accounts of dramatic events, of which he has perfect recollection of, all these years later. steve, to feed your ego and satisfy your deep desires to share these stories over and over, just write a damn book.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so damn sad. I think steve benson needs professional help. Anyone ever notice how many posts he has going at once. I also find it funny that sometimes he doesn't get many responses right away and the post disappears. I'm not sure if he pulls it or the Admin here pulls it but I'm sure it's steve. He would never want to be embarrassed about having a post in which nobody responded, like the one earlier today about making up with Tal.

Also, God forbid, if anyone every disagrees with this all knowing man. You'd better run for cover because he's coming after you with both guns blazing and insults a flying. What a great guy. Steve wants everyone here to bow down and worship him for his incredible whit and intelligence. No wonder he doesn't believe in a God, in his mind, he is God, so how could there be another one.

I used to enjoy your posts steve but this latest fiasco, attacking Tal for unknown reasons, but of course steve said that Tal knew, but he really didn't, just took the cake. The bottom line is that steve can't handle anyone being popular on RFM besides him. He wants to rule the roost and he basically does. The rules of RFM are not enforced whatsoever when it comes to steve. He can do whatever he wants, cut people down, insult them, personally attack them and so on. He can do whatever he wants and gets a pass I guess because of his Mormon celebrity status.

Steve, why don't you just buy RFM and make it yours, then you can ban everybody you don't like and set new rules, like, nobody can post unless they start out by saying, steve benson is my idol and I worship him as my God. It seems that would be the only way you could maybe, possibly satisfy that grand canyon sized ego that can't be fed enough.

Then again, you could do everyone a big favor and go on another hiatus like you did earlier this year. I think you've worn out your welcome again, so come back in about 6 months and try your game again, maybe with a better, improved attitude. I'm sure there will be plenty of new suckers that you can cut to the core with your sarcasm and insults. Also, you can start reposting all of your stories again from the beginning and amaze all the newbies with your accounts. It would also give you more time to fine tune them and embellish even more than you probably already have.

All I know is that Tal is way more loved than you steve(ouch, don't cry now big boy) because he seems to be a good, genuine guy and everything that you are not and most likely never will be. At least Tal is down to earth, funny and willing to have intelligent conversation and debate with anyone and gives everyone the benefit of the doubt, even you. He doesn't have to resort to the insults and adolescent behavior of a 2 year old, where apparently, you are much more comfortable. Grow up steve and act like an adult or get the hell out of here. I'm sick of your antics as are many others, so just go away please or start treating other posters with respect.

Then again, now that I think about it, stick around and continue to show everyone your true IQ, your daily antics and your behavior that is of a 2 year old child. Go ahead and continue to embarrass yourself and act like a jerk, it will only hurt your future book sales or precious RFM posts. I look forward to a day when you are either not here anymore, treating people with respect or writing posts that nobody responds to.

Have fun steve and I'm sure that admin will pull this post because nobody is allowed to say bad things about the self-crowned king of RFM, the almighty.....drum roll please.....steve benson. Ha Ha Ha.

Isn't it sad that we have to waste the precious RFM bandwidth talking about steve benson and his attacks on others. of course, I'm once again feeding this mans massive ego by writing this post but I felt that it needed to be said since I've had enough of this pompous ass. Attacking Tal was the last straw, uncalled for, unwarranted and completely out of line. In Steve's pathetic God-complex mind, he thought that he had gotten so big, that he could lash out at Tal and nothing would happen except that everyone would run to his side in gleeful support. Well steve, you were wrong. Is it the first time(in your mind of course) that you've ever erred? Just curious....

Now, either shut up, go away or quit picking fights with people and just write your crap. 99% of the people here are decent, respectful people that just want to share their experiences and help others. You, steve, are in the 1% and are indeed only in it for self glory. You don't give a damn about anybody else and obviously have no desire to truly help anyone with their pain, you just attack and insult them. Amazing that you could accuse somebody else of doing what you do everyday. Wow....I hope everyone can now see you for who you really are....after your actions of the last couple days and that you aren't one of us.

What a joke. Bye bye stevie, have a good one. Good luck in your future cut downs and insults of RFM posters. I hope that it gives you the great joy that you seek. By the way, how old are you again?

Subject: Re: To keep Steve happy, lets rename RFM. How about Steve Benson's RFM Date: Nov 11 04:02

I enjoy some of Steve's posts, but I have to agree with you about his attack on Tal, his big ego, his sarcastic put downs of everyone who disagrees with him and his general know-it-all attitude. He could use a bit of humility and would come across as a lot more likable if he could show some. I hope he sticks around and I also hope he can tone it down a bit.

Subject: The Motive of Every Poster Here is to Seek Attention to Themselves ....Date: Nov 12 03:03

...their thoughts, their observations, their experiences. This is why the lame retort of "just ignore my posts" doesn't entirely wash. The poster OBVIOUSLY wants people to read the post, to pay attention to the post, to comment on the post. If you are willing to post you open yourself up to any and all feedback. What else is the motive?

So why does Steve Benson post here incessantly if he doesn't care what other people think and doesn't care if people ignore his posts? What is his agenda for posting if not to seek attention for his thoughts/observations/experiences?

Subject: Not quite... (swearing)Date: Nov 12 03:23

It's not views that are unpopular or wrong that gets people riled up. I have seen PLENTY of disagreeing views and people are more or less civil. What really upsets people is watching someone throw their SHIT all over unsuspecting and undeserving posters. People get pissed off when they come somewhere to find friendship and thought provoking insights and they have to wade through crap flung far and wide by a self absorbed pompous ASS that has the ability to post very interesting ideas but instead wastes HIS time, EVERYONE else's time and BANDWIDTH with idiotic accusations and megalomaniacal BULLSHIT!!!

Subject: Well, to your credit, at least you gave us all a parenthetical heads-up before you . . .Date: Nov 12 03:26Author: steve benson

dumped your dastardly dung on what might have been an otherwise totally unsuspecting public. :)

Subject: Is that the best you can do? (more minor swearing)Date: Nov 12 03:35

Why don't you get all of your nasties out here and now, so maybe you can go to bed feeling like the big prick (oops, meant "big man") and hopefully tomorrow it will be all out of your system and you can get up and treat everyone with a little respect.

Come on, I can take it. I'm a big girl.

Subject: Well...Date: Nov 12 03:45

...have fun with your little hose. And while you are thus engaged, why don't you think about what an unpleasant place you have made this little neck of the Internet woods the past few days and try to come up with a way you can participate in this community without offending, putting down and chasing away good folk with your crummy attitude.


Subject: Re: *That is not what I meant at all -Date: Nov 12 01:58Author: Speaking of rules......

Speaking of rules, Steve Benson violates several of them all the time and you, Susan, do nothing about it. Now you are reminding us of the rules? I think you need to re-read the rules yourself and apply them to Steve Benson for once, that is if he is still around and I hope he is not.

Here are some examples of rules Steve violates on a regular basis without any reprimanding. These quotes are directly from the rule page in case anyone was wondering.

"How do I avoid having my posts removed?"


1. Stay on topic-[Steve on topic? Attacking Tal and Reed Benson? Is that on topic Susan?]

2. Be polite-[Has that ever happened with Steve. He is always rude, cuts people down, and personally insults people. Again, it's a double standard. We can't do it but Steve can do anything.]

3. Use a consistent screen name.-[I know for a fact that Steve uses anon and many other names to stir up trouble.]

5. No personal attacks. Discuss and debate, but do not insult or attack.-[Wow, really? But it's okay for Mr. Benson to attack Tal, Reed Benson and whoever else he wants to attack. He can be belligerent, insulting, and has the freedom to do and say whatever the hell he wants. Why is this Susan? Why can't we all be allowed to freely break the rules and do whatever and say whatever we want without being censored. Oh yeah, we aren't Steve Benson, my bad.]

6. If you have strong feelings about something, don't preach. Your best bet is to share personal experiences.-[Ah okay, like Steve Benson does? Yeah, he never preaches, just shares, right, I forgot about that.]

Here are some examples of posts that will get removed:

1. personal attacks-[except for Steve Benson's posts.]

3. preaching-[Once again, unless you are Steve Benson.]

4. attempts to deliberately stir up trouble-[That is all Steve does, latest example, stirring up trouble with Tal for no reason at all. He blatantly attacked an innocent, popular poster, that everyone enjoys and why? You tell us Susan. Did you ask him? Did you shut him down? I think not. Steve did it because he is arrogant, condescending and can't stand anyone taking away from his presence. He felt threatened by Tal, because people like him and also, Tal is much funnier and more caring than Steve could or will ever be.]

5. faking a conversation by answering your own posts under different names-[Steve has done this on many occasions and you know it Susan. Come clean with everyone, you know it's true.]

6. complaints about censorship (ironic, ain't it)-[Yeah, it is ironic, unless you are Steve Benson, then this rule also doesn't apply.]

8. complaints about the admins (ditto)-[Well, if you can publicly tell us to obey the rules, then we can publicly ask you to also apply the rules, not selectively, but collectively.]

Susan, if you can ask us to obey the rule of using our own name when posting, we can ask you or encourage you to read the rules and apply them to Steve Benson. I find it so ironic that you are after us to use our own names by quoting a rule when you let Steve do whatever the hell he wants. Is he the one that has been paying the $1200 bill every year? I was just curious.

That would explain why he can do whatever he wants and why you always run to his defense. I can't think of any other reason why you and Eric bow down to this man at the expense of us normal folks. It's a shame that we leave the Mormon Church, only to come here and once again be restricted on what we can say and do, unless of course, we are Steve Benson. All I'm saying is if the rules are good enough for us, they are good enough for Steve Benson.

So, as you can see, several people were upset but it didn't matter and many of these posts were quickly deleted. Anything that was too harsh or negative toward Steve was deleted. One poster commented that he/she, had done a complete post on what they thought about the whole Steven Benson/Tal Bachman fiasco, but that is was deleted within 20 minutes. This particular poster is a regular poster with great things to say and I'm sure that post was highly critical of Steve Benson, thus prompting the quick deleting. I think you all get my point by now.

As said above, they should just rename the place Steve Benson's RFM, that might make him happy but you never can tell. Anyway, I don't want to waste anymore time talking about this clown because I have too many other things that I need to discuss, but I just thought it was necessary to let everyone know why I wasn't going to be on RFM anymore.

I've had several people Email me, wondering where I've been, if I was okay, etc, and I appreciate that very much. Thanks for your concern. I've just been extremely busy while observing things going on in RFM, plus working on my other projects. In short, I've just had a lot going on and took a little break from posting. I used to be a regular poster on RFM and most people seemed to like what I posted and it seemed to receive an overall positive response and then I was just gone and they wondered where I was. Honestly, it is just time for me to move on and try to help as many people as I can.

As mentioned above, several times, I'm very grateful for my time in RFM and for all that I have learned from the awesome people in there, but under the current conditions that I mentioned above, I can no longer be a part or participate there. Honestly, I just hate injustice and it's so frustrating to me but when there is nothing that I, as an individual can do about it, you are better off just walking away. Why stay there, get angry, bang my head on the wall, and not be able to honestly respond to Steve, as he does to everyone, without having my post deleted or getting banned for life.

Anything that I would say in RFM regarding Steve Benson, would just get erased anyway, so why waste my time and words on a losing cause. The owners and moderators love the guy, as do many people in RFM, so they can have him, love him, worship him, etc, but sadly, at the expense of some people like myself and others, that were there just to help people and gain knowledge as we work through our recovery.

The other thing is, that there are 3 great sites that I highly recommend to everyone and I have links to them here on Mormon Truth. They are The Mormon Curtain, The Church is not true and Joseph lied. They are all great!! Hyrum and Mike Norton do their podcast that is listed on The Church is not true, while Mike Norton also has his personal site, Joseph Lied and the Mormon Curtain links to both sites, including mine, while at the same time, also archiving many of my posts and promoting Hyrum and Mike's podcast, etc. I highly recommend going to the Mormon Curtain if you want to read more about his experiences with Susan this past week regarding RFM and pulling off posts from RFM to post on The Mormon Curtain.

Susan thinks he does it to boost his readership while at the same time, ignoring basically every word that he writes to her. It's crazy!! You guys can all read the Email correspondence between Infymus and Susan and make up your own minds. I think he lays out what his true intentions are and does it very clearly. It's a shame that Susan already has her mind made up to what his true intentions are and completely ignores all of his responses regarding the matter. The Mormon Curtain provides a great service to all Ex-Mo's or Non-Mormons and even TBM's and it's ashame that Susan couldn't find a way to work with Infymus instead of creating such a big problem.

We should be trying to be on the same team but I guess that there are divisions even within the Ex-Mo world. It's sad but the true reality. At least the rest of us seem to be working together for a common cause without any of these problems or accusations. I love it and I'm honored when someone pulls from my blog to post on other blogs or in other places. The only thing I ask, is that I'm given credit for the remarks and everyone has done that, without my even asking.

Infymus did the same thing, always giving credit to RFM and referring back to RFM and the original post and poster, so that people would be able to find it on his site and then join the conversation and even make comments if so inclined. Susan and Eric have a problem with that?!! My hell, he was promoting their site and they didn't even realize it or appreciate it. The only thing I can think of, is that these type of thought patterns, fear and paranoia, must come from their former "TBM" days. It just makes no common sense.

I also love how Susan kept referring to their Lawyer or legal people but refuses to give Infymus their name or names, so that His Lawyer could talk with their Lawyer(s). After his many attempts of asking for this information, I think we can safely say "BUSTED!!" Then it went from being a serious matter to her Lawyer(s) finding it very funny and laughing about it?!! Basically, Susan made a fool of herself and it's unfortunate. All she had to do was be honest from the very beginning, engage Infymus in "real conversation" dealing with their "real concerns" and it would have been so much easier.

So, hey, anyone out there that wants to quote me, post my comments, do it as often as you like, just give me credit. It would be an honor, not an insult. In fact, I've quoted Polygamy Porter for instance, on several occasions, and he would respond in RFM by saying, "cool, you quoted me on your blog", etc. That would be a normal reaction, wouldn't it?

I'm sure that I'll be banned for life too, after Susan and Eric, read this post or someone comments about it on RFM. Do I care? No I don't, not at all. I've repeatedly thanked the awesome people over there, including Susan and Eric for providing RFM for me and others during our recovery process. Sadly, I had to come to my own blog to be able to openly discuss these issues and my feelings because it simply isn't allowed over there, unless you are Steve Benson, being critical of someone else. Damn, I feel like I'm back in the Mormon Church again and I can't speak my mind.
I hate it when people try to take away your freedom and that free, feeling of freedom that I had after leaving Mormonism, was beginning to disappear in RFM. That was my sign to exit stage left and so here I am. I wasn't repressed for over 30 years, only to be repressed again as an Ex-Mormon in RFM. I guess it's safe to say that I quickly outgrew my surroundings and need for expression in RFM. It sucks to write what one considers to be a great post, only to have it disappear 10 minutes. Meanwhile, people like Steve Benson, can write whatever they want and it stays. Like I said, it was time for me to move on!!

My point is that RFM, is opposed and against those 3 sites that I mentioned above and will not allow any posts on RFM, to link to those sites. Why is this? How do I know this? Well, let me share my personal Email correspondence that I had with Susan a while back when I didn't know that Mike and Hyrum and any link to their site or show, were against the rules. Also, I found it very funny that Susan said that the site, The Church is not true, was begun by Polygamy Porter and Mike Norton, when it was actually Hyrum and Mike Norton. She didn't even have here facts straight, but Polygamy Porter has also had several problems with Susan and thought he was banned at one point. Actually, the truth was that Polygamy Porter had been a guest on the show and a great one at that. Everyone should go listen to that podcast if they haven't already. I think he also did a second show over the phone.

Anyway, Here is the original Email, with Susan's response above and my Email to here below:

Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:09:14 -0400
From: exmolight@aol.com View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: I just had a question?
To: samueltheutahnite@yahoo.com

Okie Dokie, the problem you hit is that Eric does not want the site that Norton and Porter started advertised on RfM. Period. I have cut that part out and put the post up for you :)
Sus I/S

-----Original Message-----
From: Samuel the Utahnite
To: exmolight@aol.com
Sent: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 23:29:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I just had a question?


I just started a post on whether "The Mormon Church is "really" against gambling?" Anyway, Polygamy Porter responded and I went to respond to him and the comments popped up saying something about the board being a moderated board and that my post would have to be checked first before it would be allowed to be posted?

So, it was either a mistake or I must be in some kind of trouble on your site that didn't exist 30 minutes before when I posted my post. I don't believe that there was anything out of bounds or legally wrong in my gambling post, it was pretty straightforward and is still on there. So anyway, get back to me as soon as you can and let me know what's going on. It just caught me by surprise. I can't imagine what I could have said that was offensive enough to have to now be monitored or banned with what I see on there on a daily basis regarding all sorts of topics. Get back to me as soon as possible and if I've done something wrong, please let me know what it was, so that I can correct it. It certainly wasn't my intention and I'm not even aware of what it is.

I've been posting my blog address on there, maybe that's it, but I've seen so many doing it, I didn't think that would be a problem. On my blog site, I always reference you guys and even have a link to you in my links. Anyway, get back to me and let me know what's going on and if it is possible to recover that last post I wrote to Polygamy Porter. Thanks,
Samuel the Utahnite

Now, here was another Email exchange about 2 weeks after I found RFM, back in July. I had written what I thought was a funny post about the Mormon temple but it was denied 3 times. I kept re-writing it, as it would just disappear with no explanation or Email, telling me why it was deleted. Anyway, I'll try to find the post, I have it archived and post it after this Email. It's amazing, with all of the stuff that is discussed, that my Email was so offensive, I guess it was the "illegal stuff." Once again, I'm going to keep the email in it's original form, my question is below and her answer is above:

Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:29:50 -0400
From: exmolight@aol.com View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Sorry about the "Temple Movie" posts!!
To: samueltheutahnite@yahoo.com

Okie Dokie, the first was taken down because of the illegal stuff. Sneaking into a temple is illegal even if you don't film. There has recently been a big problem with someone that filmed inside a temple and wouldn't stop posting about it (and discussing showing it around on the net and irl) and they were asked to leave. This may have happened just as you found the board so you may not be aware of it.
We are really REALLY careful, we are owned by Eric and he carries the full liability. Our legal guys say no, we listen. It will be ten years this November the site has been up and we have not been sued or had legal trouble yet. Lots of people would like to see us closed down.
Now your second post is ok minus this: I'd just like to know when and where and sneak on the set.
Again it is sneaking and it would start up about sneaking into the temples again. So, I took that line out, put the rest back and topped it. And we never answer questions on the board. Pop it off in mail :).
Susan I/S

-----Original Message-----
From: Samuel the Utahnite
To: ExMoLight@aol.com
Sent: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 12:53:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sorry about the "Temple Movie" posts!!


Well, I just needed you to help me out. I made 3 posts about the "Temple Movies" and all 3 got deleted so I'm guessing that for some reason, this or anything that goes on in the temple must be off limits for some reason. My main reason for the posts was to find out if anyone ever knew anyone that had been in a "Temple Movie." The first post, I was joking around and asked if anyone had ever recorded it , asked some funny questions, etc. So, I deleted anything that I thought might have been offensive for some reason and re-posted it. Then the second one was also deleted!! So then I made a third one asking if the "Temple Movies" were off limit and that too was deleted!!

So, whatever the case may be, I'm sorry for bringing up a topic that is off limits or taboo. I truly wasn't aware of it. I see topics about sex, masturbation, personal experiences with Bishops, Stake Presidents and all matter of subjects and I just never thought that the subject of temples was off limits. I have so many questions now that I'm out of the Morg and one of the things that I have questions about is the Temple. Of course and I was trying to go about it in a light hearted manner which I guess wasn't deemed appropriate and that's fine as now I know.

I'm fairly new to this board, like 2 weeks or so and have had great response to many of the thinks that I have brought up and I just thought that this would be a good topic that I hadn't seen anyone discuss and I was curios. I guess that I was wrong. So once again, I apologize for anything that was branded offensive and would love an explanation for why it was offensive.

Here is the original post that I put up that was erased. As you can tell, I was just trying to be funny, not malicious, not realizing that someone had actually already recorded the movie and was bragging about it a couple of weeks before I arrived. I guess I was pushing the envelope on that one, but hey, like I said, does it say anywhere that you can't record the movie? honestly!! I never saw it. Keep in mind that I was pretty fresh out of the Church and wondering things that I had never wondered before...LOL. Anyway, here's the original post that got me busted for the first time in RFM. Amazing that these were the only two times they busted me....LOL!!

Post #45 Subject: Anybody have info on those temple films?Date: Jul 11 14:10Author: Samuel the UtahniteMail Address: samueltheutahnite@yahoo.com

I was just curious, anybody know someone that was in one of the temple films, where they were filmed, etc. I wonder what they did with the old films, they must be locked up in the vault in the mountain eh? It sure would be cool to be able to get a copy. I wish that someone would go to a session and record the movie secretly. Any offers?

I'm sure that they aren't checking for infrared like some of normal theaters are. I'm really amazed that someone hasn't done that already. Maybe they have and I'm just not aware of it. I haven't ever seen a copyright on the movie or that FBI warning about recording it, so it must be okay, right? Can you imagine how pissed they'd be?!! It would be all over the Internet in seconds, for the whole world to watch.

It would be cool to see all of the Satan's from the past and present sit down and have a round table, heck, throw in the preachers too. They should have a "temple movie reunion" party and get all the casts together!! Was there fighting on the sets? How did the people that got cut feel? Were the preachers pissed when they got cut out of the new version? Were the guys that played Satan like Jack-Mormons? Where they all members? Where Adam and Eve really naked on the Church set behind those bushes? I remember that Eve was pretty hot, especially in the older movies, did Adam ever get excited? Did they ever screw around? I wonder who actually wrote and directed the movies? Did they sell their tokens for money? I wonder what they got paid or was it a "calling" or "mission" to make the movie? Oh yeah, how did Peter, James and John have bodies again when they weren't even born yet?

That has to be the most screwed up movie I've ever seen, it never made sense!! Every time I went, I left more confused than when I got there. Was it meant to be literal or figurative? The funny thing is, the GA's don't even have the answer to that one....ha ha!! Someone asked President Kimball if he understood the movie and he said something like, "I'm more confused every time I see it!!" LOL!!

I'm sure it won't be long now and they'll make another one. I'd just like to know when and where and sneak on the set. Maybe, they film them on Kolob and the actors aren't even from Earth. Maybe God just beams it down when it's time for a new one. The Prophet shows up to work and there's a new movie, special delivery from Kolob, sitting on his desk. Just a few thoughts for fun....LOL!!

Hopefully RFM will continue to help people in their recovery process, it just isn't for me anymore. Hopefully one day, either Steve Benson will be held accountable to the rules like everyone else, or he will just go away. What's sad, is that he does have some great stories and insights to share, but with his rude and nasty attitude, he just ruins whatever he is trying to accomplish unless insulting people is his main goal

Anyway, that's about it, now on to more important issues. I didn't intend this post to be so long and I'm sure that some people, especially Steve Benson disciples, will be highly offended and won't return to my blog, but hey, that's fine with me. I had to speak my mind and clear the air and explain my absence from the RFM board.

Maybe in his personal life, Steve Benson is a great guy, a loving Husband and Father and just created this personality or persona, especially for RFM. At least I sincerely hope that to be the case. The parts of this post regarding Steve Benson, are only about his actions and attitude in RFM, not in his personal life. I do not personally know him and I'm only familiar with his actions and attitudes that are well documented in RFM. When you write 189 posts in 10 days, it's hard for people to not have a pretty good idea of who you are, at least in RFM.

Thanks guys for reading my blog and for all the emails and I promise that I'll now be posting again on a regular basis. I've been going 100 MPH and I needed to recharge my batteries while at the same time, planning for the future and the things that I want to accomplish in order to help as many people as possible. I sincerely apologize to those people reading this, that are Steve Benson and RFM fans, my intent was not to offend you, rather to share my feelings and observations regarding these matters. Maybe we can agree to disagree and move forward. Whenever I see blatant injustice, I have to speak my mind. I just had to get these things and matters off of my chest in a place where I couldn't and wouldn't be edited or deleted.

Take Care Everyone,

Samuel the Utahnite

Labels: ,

Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 2.5 License.


Get your own map at hit2map.com