Well, Unexpectedly, My Friendly Relationship With Infymus And The Mormon Curtain, Comes To An Abrupt End, As He Begins Deleting My Posts!!

***Update at the bottom of this post***

Here is the post that I wrote over on Dr. Shades uncensored Mormon Discussion Board explaining this unexpected and unfortunate turn of events:

Mike Norton, you out there man? Infymus trashed us both....over at "A View From the Foyer." Well, mostly you as I only got a brief mention but here is what he said to start things off:


Quote:
I publish none of Norton's material, and don't even link to his site. Norton is free to do what he wants, but I find him to be more of an extremist. I will admit, however, that in the beginning, I did publish many of his items on the Mormon Curtain, but then I began to realize that his material just didn't fit. Even some of Samuel the Utahnite's articles I have cleaned out. Not because I'm censoring anything, I just felt the direction I wanted to go was more of real information and real life issues - not absolute rants. TBMS often see the pure rants and think that is all that Ex-Mormonism is about, and in many ways it can be, but does not entirely encompass it.

Mike Norton and Samuel not fitting in thread

Just for the record, I've been a big supporter and even defender of The Mormon Curtain and Infymus since last June or so, when I first found it, but no more. I'm going to demand that he remove EVERYTHING of mine as he "just doesn't fit in" to where I want my material posted any longer and I too, want to go in a different direction. He has at least 25-30 + posts that I have written currently posted on his sight, minus whatever he has seen the need to "clean out."

Anyway, the subject of you Mike continued on:

Quote:
Elder MonoMo said:

As far as Mike Norton goes, I love guys like him. There are far too few people with the balls big enough to take on a huge establishment and poke a stick in its eyes. Yeah he's extreme, but he's just hilarious. Who would have ever thought about doing a podcast of a Beehive House tour where he gives the Sister Missionaries a whole hell of a lot of CogDis?

You gotta hand it to him on creativity. The guy is creative.

Infymus:

I have a fear of incarceration and legal wrangling that keeps me on a different path. Mike does not seem to fear it and if you've seen a lot of his work, you'll see why. I found it amusing that his city council was going to throw him in jail for having a large sign in his front yard showing the casualties in Bush's "War on Terror". I never did follow up and find out if they actually threw him in jail.

I've seen his hired men on the street around Temple Square (as I walk around there twice a day) and they're more relaxed than some of the other street preachers.

I also found it rather amusing when he was booted from the RFM forums (I only recently archived and deleted that particular post on the MC), and when the LDS Corporation served him with legal papers for "trespassing". What? No flaming sword or lightening bolt? No, God works with his law-firm Kirton & McKonkie now.

I do have a link to his site "Joseph Lied" in my links section:

Joseph lied link

Hey, I thought he was bragging in the first part I posted, that, "I publish none of Norton's material, and don't even link to his site." I guess when he realized that some people like, respect and appreciate what Mike Norton does, so that they don't have to, he suddenly volunteers, "I do have a link to his site "Joseph Lied" in my links section", which fully contradicted his tough guy, "I don't post anything from him stance." I guess it just depends who Infymus is talking to at the moment, as to what his story is. Hey, that sounds like Joseph Smith, doesn't it?

Quote:
MoNoMo:

There are definitely many different camps of people who frustrate the spread of Mormonism.

There's the venomous Anti-Mormon street preachers spewing hate and waving the pictures of aborted fetuses, who's hidden agenda is pretty transparent, which makes them pretty ineffective at communicating their message.

Then there's the guys like Mike Norton, who are far more effective at getting their message out via the Internet and through attracting media attention and just generally being a real thorn in the side of the Morg.

Then there's all the different Internet forums, which provide a major source of information on Mormonism, both pro, con and in between.

Then there are people like you and many others in the DAMU, who I'd say are the most effective at presenting the other side of the Mormonism, you can't get through official channels. The meat. Facts , in clear & rational(unemotional)manner so that others can compare the two different sides and draw their own conclusion.

Then there's people like Kathy and others who offer practical advice for putting Mormonism behind you.

Then there are those who are out there publishing scholarly, objective works and scientific research on issues that shed light on the dark claims of Mormonism.

Some methods are more effective than others at communicating, but they all play a role in debunking the myths of Smith for people searching for serious answers to serious questions.

The ones I trust are objective, meaning that they do not start with a prejudiced conclusion and make everything fit that conclusion, unlike Mormon Apologists.

Infymus:

I believe this is the direction that I have been trying to take the Mormon Curtain. In the early days of culling I brought over a lot of interesting posts from Ex-Mormons who either had an axe to grind or they were venting frustration over their journey through Mormonism. I went through 15 years of Mormonism and now on the outside, I was angry and frustrated that I was lied to for many years. Even so, being out now almost five years that anger and frustration has largely subsided. I now look more for messages that are informative and contain information that will help readers make a more informed decision. I still hold dear a place for simple Recovery From Mormonism and have three large sections for that (soon to be four), but I now hold back on people simply making a statements without a lot of information to back it up.(Yeah, Like Norton and myself, because we never back up anything we say, we just rant like lunatics, right?) I've also been systematically going backwards through articles and removing those I don't think will aid in making good informed decisions.

I think in there somewhere, I have quite a few posts from you MoNoMo.

Here's the sad thing about this thread; this thread was actually about "Susan I/S asked me to post this in regards to Sara Hamblin's passing. She was Kathy Worthington's (of mormonnomore.com fame) partner for ~14 years, I believe."

Infymus felt the need to derail it completely when he just had to say, despite the circumstances, "Now, as for Susan I/S, she can go to hell in a hand basket for all I care." Infymus did say how sorry he was for Kathy and praised her, but then had to get his jab in at Susan....pretty sad if you ask me considering what the purpose of the thread was.

Then later, he claimed that he didn't want to derail the thread, after MoNoMo's comments and some others, when he said, "For the sake of the Foyer, I'd rather not turn this into a Susan bashing thread as it's not conducive to the topic at hand (ie. Kathy's partner passing away).

Good hell man, he's the one that started it, but have no fear, he continued on talking about her and then that's when he felt the need to bring up Mike Norton and myself. Infymus was not being sincere in his claims that he didn't want to "turn this into a Susan bashing thread" when he was the one that started it and then kept it going, plain and simple.

Oh yeah, but no more ranting on my site or negative posts without facts to back it up, because I'm going in a different direction now. Can you all see the hypocrisy here? This is ridiculous!! He is ridiculous!! Does he not even read what he writes? I think that telling SUSAN I/S to "go to hell in a handbasket", might just be that ranting that he is now so against.

I agree that Mike and myself are very passionate people and pissed off and Mike is certainly more daring than I, but I appreciate what he is willing to do. His site is fantastic, you know, the site that Infymus doesn't link to, but then does link to? Give me damn break!! It seems that Infymus has turned into RFM, in that he wants to be exclusive or something and that's unfortunate.

Also, notice that it was Mike and myself, that were singled out, not Steve Benson, or Tal Bachman, who are 2 of the bigger ranters there are. Some of Steve's stuff is educational although I don't like him or his attitude of bashing others needlessly and he is a huge ranter. Tal writes very amusing stuff, ranting stuff, that includes facts that he knows, but without links and scriptures a lot of the time to back it up. They are generally things that most of us in the Ex-Mormon community already know. Tal knows his stuff and is very sharp with great whit and humor to boot.

I have loved a lot of what Tal writes, a lot of it tongue and cheek, and I have learned a lot from him and have even posted some of his stuff on my blog. I also loved Tal's talk at the convention and I think he's a rather cool guy. Oh yeah, then you have Infymus himself, ranting like crazy about the Church, RFM, etc.

This is one of my favorite rants by Infymus, under the subject heading Infymus, that I guess he has to delete now, since he is anti-rants:

Quote:
Quit Calling Me Your Brother (or Sister, If It Applies)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted Aug 4, 2005, at 08:00 AM.
FILED UNDER: INFYMUS

ORIGINAL AUTHOR: n/a
ARCHIVED BY: Infymus


TOP

I framed my exit letter and I have it above my desk at home. I was reading through it again and noticed, "Dear Brother Infymus".

Ug.

I'm not your brother, Greg.

In fact, in my days of Mormonism I hated calling people brother and sister. It wreaked of cult. CULT CULT CULT. I just couldn't do it and so I never did and I cringed when people called me brother. UG!

And when I resigned, the Mormon ward had just received a new bishop. I never knew him. Three years later he pops by for a chat about my recent letter for ward directory name removal. Power suit and tie as usual - he stood there and called me Brother and told me how much he loved me.

UG! I just held my daughter in my arms and felt creeped out.

Don't call me brother...

Infymus.

So, here is the bottom line for me. In my opinion, Infymus can't be trusted, plain and simple. I personally wouldn't allow him to post any of your posts on his site, if I were you guys. First of all, even if he pretends to be your Email Buddy and you think everything is fine, that won't stop him from going somewhere else and stabbing you in the back and talking shit about you. This man obviously knows no loyalty, even to those that have been 100% loyal to him and even defended him and his non-sense with Susan I/S from RFM and Daniel Peterson.

Now, most of you know that I'm not a Daniel Peterson fan but maybe, just maybe, he was telling the truth about Infymus(AKA Michael Hoenie) and his character when he described the Email conversations that they had back and forth. I even wrote a post about this, once again defending Infymus and trashing Daniel Peterson(deservedly so) when he claimed that he wasn't paid by the Mormon Church to do what he does at FARMS.

Here is the link so that you can all read it and decide for yourself(the link below is no longer valid, as Michael Hoenie threatened a lawsuit against Shields & Daniel C. Peterson for posting his embarrassing & foul words..it's fine for Michael Hoenie to post personal & private Email correspondence from others without their permission, just like he did to me out of pure vengeance, calling me "mentally unstable", just like he does to all of his critics, but he threatens lawasuits against anyone that exposes him..what a hypocritical ASSHOLE..EXPOSED AGAIN Mikey!! Just Google his name folks..this is the first post to pop up, haunting him FOREVER..LOL!):

http://www.shields-research.org/Critics/Mormon_Curtain.htm

The part that stood out to me at the time, was right at the end where it claims:

Quote:
Additional Note: Infymus's last approximately eight (as of 12 Nov 2005) messages to Dr. Peterson were graphically sexual/insulting/demeaning in content. We are including one of subsequent messages that has been censored so that the public can see the nature of the character of Michael Hoenie, one of those who is a participant on the Recovery from Mormonism message board. We wonder why it is that as soon as these people leave the Church to what they claim is a higher plain of freedom in thought and lifestyle, so many of them immediately drop into the gutter. We have witnessed this time and again. This certainly suggests something about their new "better" way of life.

Michael Hoenie:
"So Dan tell me, when you get your fat bald [obscene] [obscene] [obscene] your [censored], and you're [obscene] her [obscene] [obscene] ... Do you call out your own name? I'll bet you do."

And the rest of Mr. Hoenie's obsessive continuing messages (with no response from Dr. Peterson) have continued in a similar vein. And then he and his cohorts have the nerve to say that Dan is a name caller.

Note for Michael Hoenie, in response to what he has posted on his blog: He appears to have difficulty reading English. It was I (Stan Barker) who praised Dr. Peterson, not Dr. Peterson praising Dr. Peterson. His assessment doesn't even make any sense!

The sad thing is guys, that I actually went into my Mormon Cog Dis, that I guess is easy to fall back into, and I figured that Daniel Peterson must have been lying, because Infymus wouldn't say those things. Wow, was I dumb ass. We don't know for sure if he did or didn't say these things, but I'm more inclined to believe he did, now that I've seen a little bit more of his character personally. Just breaking it down as I see it, just like Mormonism and the evidence seems to be piling up, doesn't it?

I believe that if Infymus is trying to help recovering Mormons, and behaving like this behind the scenes, he is hurting us, all of us, not helping us. To pretend publicly to be this nice, "non-ranting" guy, with a wonderful site to help people, but then making fun of people's appearance and wife and their sex life, mixed with plenty of expletives, probably isn't too affective. Ya think? Yeah, good job there Michael, thanks for all of your help man. I think were better off without your type of example or help.

I don't know if you guys would treat somebody else like that, like Infymus may have done, but I certainly hope not. When you start calling someone fat and bald and using the F word every other word, you have obviously lost your mind and the argument and you must feel that it is the only way you can get back at them. That's pretty damn sad!!

There is never a need for that, EVER, unless you are so incompetent and out of control, that you can't articulate a decent response, which is obviously what happened to Infymus, if he did indeed say these things. He may need to get some help for that don't you think? Obviously Daniel Peterson rattled his cage pretty good and he felt that he needed to personally berate him, again, if he did indeed say those things.

Now, I can see maybe going off in one Email, due to emotion and frustration, but I would say that a serious of Emails, like say around 8 or so, would show a pattern that is far more than a temporary emotional outburst. It, to me, shows a disturbing pattern of behavior and character of the one that is doing it.

If if did happen, as Daniel Peterson claims, I find in fascinating, that he would continue to send more and more Emails, saying the same foul things, without any more responses by Daniel Peterson. It reminds me of many of the psycho Emailers that I have, that keep Emailing me, time after time, calling me a bigot, an adulterer, a Son of Satan, etc and I don't even respond to them.

A month can go by and boom, I get another one. There is something wrong with these individuals that feel this need to continue to berate people without even a response back.

One thing that could clear this all up, would be if Infymus would simply come forward and release ALL of his Email correspondence with Daniel Peterson, unedited and then we could see if he was lying or not. If he won't maybe someone could actually get it from Daniel Peterson, so that we can know the truth. I would think that an innocent man would want to defend his good name, wouldn't he?

Oh, but let's keep in mind, his original statement, that started the thread over at the Foyer:

Quote:
I publish none of Norton's material, and don't even link to his site. Norton is free to do what he wants, but I find him to be more of an extremist. I will admit, however, that in the beginning, I did publish many of his items on the Mormon Curtain, but then I began to realize that his material just didn't fit. Even some of Samuel the Utahnite's articles I have cleaned out. Not because I'm censoring anything, I just felt the direction I wanted to go was more of real information and real life issues - not absolute rants. TBMS often see the pure rants and think that is all that Ex-Mormonism is about, and in many ways it can be, but does not entirely encompass it.

If he did say those things to Peterson, Which I sincerely hope he didn't, it would appear that he clearly wants to be perceived one way publicly, while behaving in the exact opposite way privately and that would be pretty damn hypocritical I would say, wouldn't you?

Now, some of you may be asking: why bring this here? Well, if Infymus wants to handle this publicly, we will handle it publicly and he is an official poster here in Shades room as he came in to pump up his site, right?

I also felt that he betrayed my trust and took a dump on both me and Norton. I can't speak for Mike, but I know that I thought we had a great relationship, as we've Emailed back and forth since last August. I would have hoped that he could have personally Emailed me and let me know what he was deleting of mine and why.

It's very obvious to me that he has singled out both Norton and myself as the ones he wants to clean out and it has nothing to do with, what we are writing, rather who we are, while at the same time, he is pumping up his "celebrities."

I think he sums that up quite well in the post that he left here, when he said, "I have celebrities who routinely send me posts and I have some of the single largest collection of articles published by Steve Benson, Bob McCue and Tal Bachman." Oh okay, we all better go running right?

So, once again, I find myself dealing with a double standard, a hypocrite and maybe he's just falling into his old Mormon behavioral patterns, who knows? I also know, for a fact, that at times, he hasn't been too fond of one of his "celebrity posters", Steve Benson, as he agreed with me regarding his tactics, and "being out of control", from our Email correspondence.

I also felt that you guys needed to know this information, since Infymus came on here talking up his site and pretending to be such a nice guy. I felt that this was important for you to know so that you could make an educated decision on whether you wanted to support his site or not.

Me personally, after strongly supporting and defending him on occasion, for about 7 months...I'm done. I've already pulled his link from my site and will recommend him no more to anybody, not that he will give a tinkers damn. It's unfortunate because his site does have great information, but in my opinion, Richard Packham's site or Bob McCue's sites, along with Shades, Josephlied and even mine, are great places people can go for more information.

The site of all sites, as I'm sure most of you would agree, is The Tanners Lighthouse Ministry and then you also have Deconstructor's site which is fantastic. So tell me again why we should care about The Mormon Curtain so much? Oh yeah, the celebrities, I forgot!! There are simply too many places to go to for information to act as if you are the authority and the one and only place or the biggest or best.

I also think the actual archives of RFM are a pretty good place to go and my story is still on the Biography board as are several of my opinions regarding missionaries and the Newsweek article and I'm grateful that they archived them.

So, in conclusion, just remember Mike, that Infymus says regarding you, that he is "free to do what he wants." That's nice of him, isn't it?

So, INFYMUS, please remove everything of mine and I'll let you know which of the articles without my name are also mine, so that they can be removed as well. Simply put, as I already said above, using your words, your site "just doesn't fit in" to where I want my material posted any longer and I too, want to go in a different direction. I would much rather post things here in Mormon Discussions and archive my links as Dr. Shades has personally requested.

Infymus, you clearly stated to Susan I/S, conversations that I've archived by the way, that you would gladly remove anyone's material if they asked you to and that in fact you have already had a few people request it and that you complied with their wishes immediately. Well, now you can add my wishes to your list and immediately remove my links and posts.

Also, I'm not gonna get into a Email battle back and forth and I would appreciate you not treating me as foul as you appear to have treated Daniel Peterson. If you do feel that need to snap, and be very foul with me, please do it here, so that everyone will be able to see it for themselves and be a witness, okay? I'm involving the group here as you did over on "The Foyer." Let's open this up to group discussion, I think that would be great!!

Anyway, I just felt the need to express this and I'm also looking out for all of you in here, that want to make an educated decision on whether you want to throw your support behind his website or someone of Infymus' apparent character. I for one do not, as I've made very clear in this post and at this point, I very much regret any and all association that I've had with him.

I regret that I thought we were Email friends that had each others back. I was duped and I admit it. I fought for him, defended him and he never did shit for me, except post my stuff. He must have found it comical that I would go to bat for him when he thought so little of me and my ranting posts that he now felt the need to start "cleaning up."

Did I take this personally? Hell yes I did!! I thought that he was a good guy just trying to help people like I was and never at any point, did he express any concern to me personally, about my style of writing or expression or my ranting; that is, until I read it in "The Foyer" last night.

I guess I felt loyalty or trust where there was none and that is why I regret my association with him. Also, due to his apparent lack of honesty and character, I now wonder what he really said to Susan I/S, as I con only assume that he wasn't completely forthcoming and only shared with us his, "under control comments."

So, maybe, just maybe, it was his piss poor attitude that upset Susan and made it personal, not so much the fact that he was culling from RFM. Who knows and we probably never will.

However, as we go our separate ways, I do wish him the best in his confused world and I hope that he figures out what he is doing with his site and I look very forward to seeing all of my articles deleted ASAP, so that there are no ties between us, so that nobody thinks that I in anyway support him any longer.

I also want to say that everything in this post is my personal opinion and in no way reflects on Dr. Shades or anybody else. I'm simply expressing what I believe to be the facts and reality of the situation, in this 100% censorship-free forum and now Infymus can respond with what he believes to be the truth, along with many explanations of his behavior.

If I've offended any Mormon Curtain supporters or big Infymus fans out there, I apologize as that was not my intention, rather just to share the facts as I see them. I also felt that it would be better to deal with it here since Infymus may chose to go ballistic and I felt that everyone should see that for themselves if it happened.

I also want to state that this was an unfortunate and completely unforeseen turn of events for me as I thought that I'd have a connection with The Mormon Curtain forever. Some things are just not meant to be, just as I discovered Mormonism to be a fraud. Sometimes we want things to be true or right, so badly, that we overlook the reality. In this instance, I'm looking at the reality of things and taking the appropriate action that works for me.

Take care everyone and thanks for listening. At least now you can weigh the facts and decide for yourselves, if you want to support Infymus and his site.

I will now end this post in true Infymus fashion, with:

Peace,
Samuel.
The Mormon Truth

Well guys, that's the deal. It's unfortunate, but the sooner that he deletes all of my posts over there, the better and we can both move forward. My mind is obviously decided, as you can tell from what I expressed above. Once my posts are deleted, he won't have to be concerned over what posts of mine are appropriate and which ones aren't. This will certainly simplify things for him, won't it?

He can simply move forward and I won't have to worry about which of my posts he is deleting and what type of BS he's saying about me behind my back, regarding my posts. I would have supported this guy forever, if he just had the common decency to come to me and say, "hey Samuel, I'm going in a different direction and what you write, no longer fits in and I need to delete this and that, etc. Sure I would have been pissed, I can't lie, but at least I wouldn't have had to find it in some other chat room. Give me a damn break!!

Take care everyone and I'll talk to you soon,

Samuel the Utahnite

***Update-Here was Mike Norton's response to the incorrect, false statements that Infymus made about him:

Samuel, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'm not quite sure what to make of it. It seems as if Infymus and I have one thing in common, we both think Susan I/S can go to hell. Of course, she might have to get off the computer that she spends upwards of 18 hours a day on and leave her house that I've been told she hasn't left in YEARS, but, rest assured, she CAN go to hell.

Also, a couple of things that Infymus said that I'd like to correct. He referred to the guys around Temple Square that hold up JosephLied.com signs as my "hired men". I've never paid anyone to advertise my site other than Google. Also, I've never been served "legal papers" for trespassing by the cult but I DID receive a written warning from them telling me that I couldn't go back inside any temples or I'll be arrested. Some may call that "legal papers". I dunno.

Lastly, the Layton "City Council" never threatened to have me arrested for my anti-war sign in my front yard but the idiot that is the Layton City Attorney did indeed threaten such an action. However, I fought him on it and won. The sign still stands and they have wisely decided to leave me alone.

So, I'll let Infymus do what he wants. I really don't see what I have on my site that's so terrible but, hey, to each his own.

Nort

Yeah, just as I suspected, it looks like Infymus might want to get his facts straight before he starts trashing Mike Norton and telling lies about his personal life when the reality is, that he knows nothing about it and never has. I thought it was important to post Mike's personal response, in order to tell the truth, in response to the false statements by Infymus regarding him, that made Mike Norton look terrible.

Mike Norton has spent a lot of personal time and money in order to help people out of the Mormon cult and continues to do so as we speak. Thanks Mike for all that you do and have done. Now you all know the true story and the true facts!!

Samuel the Utahnite

Gordon B. Hinckley's Lie About "God Never Once Being A Man", Is Revealed Again, In Last Months Mormon Ensign. Wake Up World And Smell The Fraud!!

You know, it's a funny thing when you are a born liar (for the Lord of course), leader of a Billion dollar cult and then lie to the world. How exactly, did Hinckley think that he would get out of this one, which was so blatant and obvious? Anyone can simply look it up in Church History or on LDS.org and most people had been taught for their whole life, in the Church, that God was once a man like us.

Those of us that served missions, especially, absolutely knew this. So is Hinckley just stupid or highly arrogant(I'd say a little of both) and figured that he would invoke Ezra Taft Benson's line in the "14 fundamentals in following the Prophet", when he claims, "The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet and The prophet will never lead the church astray."

Yeah, okay, but there's a problem sir, you are directly contradicting the founder of your religion and several other Prophets and even yourself from previous speeches. OOPS!! But it doesn't matter, because an alive Hinckley, is more important than a dead Joseph Smith, and he can't lead us astray, right? After all, as Wilford Woodruff says in The Declaration 1, in the back of the D&C, God would remove him or anyone that was leading the Saints astray.

Well, The Hinckster is 95 now and still kicking around, so I guess God didn't remove him, especially since he said this crap like 8 years ago. OOPS again, so much for God stepping in, as they promise he will. Maybe the Mormon God has been playing too much Golf on Kolob with Joseph, Moses, Abraham and Briggy baby, to give a damn.

Wow, the mental gymnastics that you must do everyday to understand the basic teachings of Mormonism and what you must have to do to make it all make sense. Now, for those of you who would like to read those EXACT words of Joseph Smith again verses the exact words of Gordo, you are in luck. In just a minute, we are gonna do a very thorough review of exactly what the Prophet of fraud had to say regarding this subject, verses what sloppy Joe had to say and I think you'll see a tad bit of difference.

Now, in reading through the January Mormon cult monthly magazine(AKA Ensign), I noticed something rather peculiar on page 51, and contrary to the teachings of Hinckley, in the article entitled, "The Nature of the Godhead." First of all, it is interesting that it says it is, "The first in a series of articles explaining basic beliefs of the restored gospel, doctrines unique to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and yet has no Author listed. Why is that? I guess it's one of the mysteries of the Mormon God. I can't wait for the others and February is already out. Maybe we'll actually learn what they really believe...yeah right!!

So, we have to assume that the head of the Cult(Church), as listed in the front of the magazine, Gordo Hinckster himself, is the author, or at least approved the contents. However, since he has been ill and in the hospital, maybe Tommy Boy(I didn't contribute to a little boys suicide) Monson approved it or possibly James (I brag about robbing gold fillings from the poor) Faust or maybe even Boyd KKK(Don't fondle your Little factory, Gays aren't born that way and Caucasians should marry Caucasians) Packer gave the approval. It doesn't really matter. Strangely, there is no author, but it is in their magazine and is Church doctrine, so it stands as official.

Now, this is what is said on page 51:


The Nature of Man

Not only do we know that God possesses a glorified body of flesh and bones, but from this restored understanding of the nature of God flows the Latter-day Saint belief regarding our nature and potential. The Prophet Joseph Smith once taught: “It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, … and that He was once a man like us. … When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them.”

Fascinating, isn't it? The January Ensign clearly and outrightly contradicts Hinckley's answers to whether God was once a man, that he gave in interview after interview. Also, maybe they took this chance when he was ill, to slip something in to set the record straight, as they've been on damage control every since Hinckley embarrassed himself and his cult by outright lying.

If you notice above, it even points out that God himself, had to "begin at the bottom, just like everyone else and ascend step by step, until he arrived at the top." And Mormons wonder why they aren't considered to be Christians? Gee, what could it be? Could this be why Hinckley denied this clear teaching on national TV? Hard to be mainstream when your core beliefs are crap like this, isn't it?
Also, one other very interesting point, is that in the Newsweek article on Mormonism, back in October of 2005, on page 60, also claimed that God was once a man, by using the so called "Hinckley couplet" from Lorenzo Snow. Now, the Church praised this article, thanked Newsweek for writing it, bragged about it and even linked to it from their website and still do. I also wrote my extensive review of this article which is the first opinion listed under bloggers on the page that I linked to above, or you can read it here. I also did a post regarding Simon Southerton's opinion of the Newsweek article and my response back, for those that are interested and haven't read them yet.

So, once again, the Newsweek article was a complete 100% contradiction of what Hinckley had said in his interviews.This is what was said in Newsweek:

Smith taught that humans (who were spirits in a "pre-existence") come to earth to get a body and to be tested. After death, everyone is placed into one of three kingdoms, depending on his level of righteousness. Those in the highest degree will dwell with God, their families will be eternal and they'll even become gods themselves—as God did. Lorenzo Snow, fifth LDS prophet, articulated doctrine when he said, "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be."

So, now that we are very crystal clear that Mormons believe that God was once a man, in an endorsed, nationwide article, plus the latest Ensign it's time to take that walk down memory lane. First let me present you with the awe inspiring comments by the Prophet of fraud himself, Gordo B. Hinckster.

He said:

San Francisco Chronicle
13 March 1997

Q: There are some significant differences in your beliefs. For instance, don't Mormons believe that God was once a man?

A: I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, ``As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.'' Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about.

Q: So you're saying the church is still struggling to understand this?

A: Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly. We believe that the glory of God is intelligence and whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the Resurrection. Knowledge, learning, is an eternal thing. And for that reason, we stress education. We're trying to do all we can to make of our people the ablest, best, brightest people that we can.


ROAD TO SALVATION-PBS
JULY 18, 1997

REV. THOMAS TAYLOR: The Bible says in the Book of John, Chapter 4, God is spirit. But the Mormons say that God is flesh and bone. You get a picture of God that is progressing. So you see that man is made of the same stuff, as it were, as God is; and that man is progressing toward deityhood, and God once was like man. So this is a very different picture of Christianity.

RICHARD OSTLING: President Gordon Hinckley says the concept of God having been a man is not stressed any longer, but he does believe that human beings can become gods in the afterlife.

PRESIDENT GORDON HINCKLEY: Well, they can achieve to a godly status, yes, of course they can, eternal progression. We believe in the progression of the human soul. Ours is a forward-looking religion. It’s an upward-looking religion. We believe in the eternity and the infinity of the human soul, and its great possibilities.

TIME MAGAZINE AUGUST 4, 1997 VOL. 150 NO. 5

KINGDOM COME

SALT LAKE CITY WAS JUST FOR STARTERS

The Mormons' True Great Trek Has Been To Social Acceptance And A $30 Billion Church Empire

Mormons reject the label polytheistic pinned on them by other Christians; they believe that humans deal with only one God. Yet they allow for other deities presiding over other worlds. Smith stated that God was once a humanlike being who had a wife and in fact still has a body of "flesh and bones." Mormons also believe that men, in a process known as deification, may become God-like. Lorenzo Snow, an early President and Prophet, famously aphorized, "As man is now, God once was; as God now is, man may become." Mormonism excludes original sin, whose expiation most Christians understand as Christ's great gift to humankind in dying on the Cross.

.....And not just the converts. In an interview with TIME, President Hinckley seemed intent on downplaying his faith's distinctiveness. The church's message, he explained, "is a message of Christ. Our church is Christ-centered. He's our leader. He's our head. His name is the name of our church." At first, Hinckley seemed to qualify the idea that men could become gods, suggesting that "it's of course an ideal. It's a hope for a wishful thing," but later affirmed that "yes, of course they can." (He added that women could too, "as companions to their husbands. They can't conceive a king without a queen.") On whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man, he sounded uncertain, "I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it... I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it."

Okay, now that I've shown you clearly, what Hinckley has said in these interviews, denying that God was once a man like us, and that he, nor anybody, knows much about it, that it's "pretty deep theology"(Even for a supposed Prophet of God), let me share with you exactly what the Prophet Joseph Smith taught. This proves that Hinckley is a liar and deceiver of the world. These teachings are included in The History of the Church volume 6:

Joseph Smith's King Follet Sermon(as printed in History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 302-317)

God An Exalted Man

I will go back to the beginning before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth, for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why He interferes with the affairs of man.

God himself was Once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible,—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with Him, as one man talks and communes with another.

In order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.

These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.

So there you go, in review, on whether God was once a man, Hinckley says:

"I wouldn't say that" and "I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it... I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it."

Joseph Smith says:

"God himself was Once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret and He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.

So, who's lying and leading astray? Hinckley or Joseph Smith, the founder? Hinckley said this, regarding Joseph Smith:

San Francisco Chronicle

13 March 1997

Q: And this belief in contemporary revelation and prophecy? As the prophet, tell us how that works. How do you receive divine revelation? What does it feel like?

A: Let me say first that we have a great body of revelation, the vast majority of which came from the prophet Joseph Smith. We don't need much revelation. We need to pay more attention to the revelation we've already received.

Now, if a problem should arise on which we don't have an answer, we pray about it, we may fast about it, and it comes. Quietly. Usually no voice of any kind, but just a perception in the mind. I liken it to Elijah's experience. When he sought the Lord, there was a great wind, and the Lord was not in the wind. And there was an earthquake, and the Lord was not in the earthquake. And a fire, and the Lord was not in the fire. But in a still, small voice. Now that's the way it works.

So, if Hinckley doesn't know or says that something isn't true, which just so happens to be something that Joseph Smith taught as absolute fact and that "the vast majority of which(Revelation) came from the prophet Joseph Smith" and then President Benson teaches, "The prophet will never lead the church astray", They have a big problem don't they?

Then in review, Wilford Woodruff taught,"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."

Also, once again, current Apostle M. Russell Ballard taught, "We will not lead you astray. We cannot."

Then Benson also taught, "The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet and The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I would say that YOU have a big problem Mormon Hierarchy!! As you can clearly see, we have complete chaos and contradictions flying everywhere. We are supposed to listen to Hinckley, as if he's infallible and that God will remove him if he tries to lead us astray, yet he is leading the Saints astray, as I've clearly pointed out and nothing happens.

So, Hinckley is more important than a "dead Prophet" including Joseph Smith, but he claims that most of our revelations, that we need, came from Joseph Smith, a "dead Prophet" and not from current Prophets and that future or current revelations, aren't really even needed. So, which is it folks? Does the Mormon Church even need Hinckley, if it's really all about Joseph Smith, like he admits it is. What good is Hinckley then? What purpose does he serve, if he really doesn't even receive revelation, because they already have all that they need?

Anyway, these facts threw me into complete mental and spiritual chaos and played a huge role in my loss of Mormon faith and exiting the Church. Everything else that I list in this blog, or discuss on my podcast, just further confirmed and compounded what I pretty much had already figured out and put more nails in my Mormon faith coffin.

If this is God's one and only true Church on earth, run by men inspired of God, 100% of the time and infallible men at that, I would say that the Mormon God would have to be very screwed up. Either God has been on vacation for 176 years or the Mormon Church is a complete fraud, you decide!!

Here is another post that I wrote, with some great info on whether or not Gordon B. Hinckley has ever lied.

So do Mormons teach and believe that God was once a man, just like us and had to climb that ladder to get where he is at? Yes they do, absolutely. Does the current Mormon Prophet believe these teachings? No he doesn't, and claims to know very little about them, in fact, he denies them outright.

So, I would said that if I was still an active Mormon, I would consider Gordon B. Hinckley, to be an Apostate, a fallen Prophet, who is spreading false doctrine around the world and who would then deserve to be excommunicated. After all, according to the Church Handbook of Instructions, Apostates, like Hinckley, that spread false doctrine and lies, are more dangerous than known "predators."

So, when are they gonna have that "court of love" to excommunicate Gordon B. Hinckley, the Prophet of fraud? After all, it clearly states, under "When a Disciplinary Council Is Mandatory:"

Apostasy

As used here, apostasy refers to members who:

1. Repeatedly act in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its leaders.

2. Persist in teaching as Church doctrine information that is not Church doctrine after they have been corrected by their bishops or higher authority

3. Continue to follow the teachings of apostate sects (such as those that advocate plural marriage) after being corrected by their bishop or higher authority.

In such cases, excommunication may be necessary if repentance is not evident after counseling and encouragement.

Priesthood leaders must take disciplinary action against apostates to protect Church members. The Savior taught the Nephites that they should continue to minister to a transgressor, but "if he repent not he shall not be numbered among my people, that he may not destroy my people" (3 Nephi 18:31; see also Mosiah 26:36).

So, again, I ask the simple question, when will Hinckley be called into his "court of love" and be excommunicated for "teaching as Church doctrine information that is not Church doctrine?" Of course, when you are the big cheese and you actually answer to nobody and are accountable to nobody, but the invisible, non-existent Mormon God, the jokes on us. So I guess that would explain why he has been able to do what he has done, without being excommunicated, while laughing all the way to the bank and his malls, luxury resorts....etc.

He has all the keys, right? So nobody can take them away but the mysterious Mormon God, who screws up and changes his mind, more than anybody. Hinckley answers to nobody!!

So, hey, you TBMS out there, you pathetic Mormon Apologists, like Wade Englund, Daniel C. Peterson(FARMS), Jeff Lindsey, John Lynch(FAIR) and many others, like Bookslinger for one, show me where I'm wrong and help us understand what Hinckley was "REALLY SAYING" in your warped, twilight zone world of Mormonism. I'm sure that you can clear this up for us and we are just all confused and mistaken...LOL!!! Help us see the light of Kolob please!! Oh yeah, and good luck!! You might need to stick that seer stone in a hat like Joseph did, to help you out on this one...LOL!!

Oh yeah, and HAPPY VALENTINES DAY EVERYONE whether you are with that loved one or on your own!! If you are reading my blog, I'm guessing that you are not with that loved one. Take care everyone!!

Samuel the Utahnite

Mormon Missionary In Mexico, Gets His Nose Busted Up And Arrested Falsly, But Gets Bailed Out By The Bishop, Just In Time For 3 Baptisms!! Wow!!

Here are a couple of articles from a Utah TV Station and then a Utah Newspaper, describing what happened exactly. I'll make my comments after the articles. This is unbelievable!!

Channel 4 in Utah reported:

LDS Missionaries Attacked In Mexico

Watch Video

A Davis county missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and his companion are home from the hospital after a brutal attack.

It happened last Saturday while the missionaries were serving in Durango, which is part of the Mexico Torreon Mission. The elders apparently tried to stop an assault on a woman when they were severely beaten.

Gary Peterson received the call from his stake president saying his missionary son was in the hospital, along with his companion.

"It was pretty scary but a peaceful feeling knowing he was all right. He's out doing the Lord's work and that's what we're proud of."

20-year old Zach Peterson and his companion, Elder Zuniga were out knocking on doors when they saw a woman in trouble. The woman was screaming and pleading for a man to leave her alone. Zach's father says the missionaries confronted the man, who turned and hit Zach square in the jaw.

Zach fell hard to the ground, was knocked unconscious and started seizing. His companion was left to defend himself and was also punched in the face.

When police arrived, Zach's companion, still conscious, was hauled to jail with the man who'd just beat him up.

Police apparently wanted to keep both men in custody until they could get Zach's side of the story. When Zach regained consciousness the next day (Sunday), Elder Zuniga was bailed out of jail by the local bishop just in time to perform 3 new convert baptisms. Right after the baptisms, he went straight to the hospital for reconstructive surgery.

"All parents worry for their sons safety, but we realize what he's doing is what we feel is the lord's work and they will be protected no matter. There will be incidents, but always watched over and protected." says Gary.

Doctors say Elder Zach Peterson will be fine. He'll just need to spend a week in bed to recover. His companion, Elder Zuniga is recovering from surgery as well, and is expected to be back in good health soon, too.

Both Elders are expected to serve out the remainder of their missions in Mexico.

Story by: Heidi Hatch/ABC 4

Zach Peterson is recovering in Mexico

The Davis County Clipper reported:

Missionary hurt defending woman in Mexico

Melinda Williams, Staff Writer 09.FEB.06

SYRACUSE — When Gary Petersen received a call from his stake president Sunday night, his wife Sherri knew immediately it was about their son Zach, who is serving an LDS mission in Durango, Mexico. Elder Zach Petersen, 20, and his companion, Elder David Zuniga, were out knocking on doors on Saturday when they heard a woman screaming. She was pleading for a man to leave her alone. So the missionaries confronted the man, who turned his rage upon the two young men. He hit Zach in the jaw and Zach fell to the ground. When police arrived, Zach’s companion was hauled off to jail, along with the man who just beat the pair up.

When Zach regained consciousness the next day and could tell police his side of the story, they released Zuniga at 4 a.m.

Instead of immediately getting help for a broken nose, the young man went to baptize three converts the two had been working with. After the baptism, he sought medical attention.

“Our stake president reassured us right away that Zach was OK,” Sherri said. “That helped us a lot that we knew he was OK.

”Since the confrontation, Sherri has spoken with Zach and e-mailed him too, and Zach has confirmed he’ll be all right.

Upon receiving the stake president’s call, Gary Petersen said he had a peaceful feeling knowing that Zach was all right. “He’s doing the Lord’s work and that’s what we’re proud of.”

While getting a call that your 20-year-old son has been hurt far away from home can be nerve-wracking, Sherri said she has spoken with the mission president and has the utmost trust in him to keep Zach safe.

“All parents worry for their son’s safety, but we realize what he’s doing is what we feel is the Lord work and he will be protected no matter what,” Gary said.

The two young missionaries will spend the week recuperating.

Zach will fulfill his mission and is expected to be home in November. His grandparents, Gary and Ann Petersen are West Bountiful residents.

mwilliams@davisclipper.com

Okay, well, there are some parts in these articles that just stunned me. I know how strong the pressure is to finish your mission, but even after you get knocked unconscious and have reconstructive surgery on your nose? First of all, how many of you out there, would want a Doctor in Mexico, doing reconstructive surgery on your nose? Hell no, I sure wouldn't. I would be out of there so quick, at home, getting my surgery and then maybe I would have returned and I said maybe.

First I want to say that I admire these two missionaries very much for coming to the rescue of a woman who was in trouble. I probably would have tried to find something to pick up as a weapon though, but I'm sure that it was just instinctive on their part and they just did it and I may have done the same thing.

I hope that they didn't think that they'd be okay and protected, because they were servants of the Lord and wearing garments though. It's become more and more obvious, as missionary after missionary, in the past 2-3 months, has been killed, now beaten up, shot, crushed, drowned, etc, that their garments have not been one bit of protection for them at all. Am I the only one that has noticed this?

I guess that you could say that those that lived were protected by their garments, right? But what about those that died? Oh, I guess they were the covenant breakers, right? Let's just be honest and say that Mormon Garments do no more to protect you than Joe Boxer underwear or Fruit Of The Loom. There is nothing holy about them ,nothing protective, absolutely nothing special or magical about them at all.

So, if the Elders that lived through their ordeals, hadn't been wearing their special, magical, protective garments, they'd be dead, right? Yeah right, wake up everyone, they lived because they were fortunate and it had nothing to do with their underwear. It's just another control factor and tool of Mormon Hierarchy, that started with Joseph Smith asking Emma to make some underwear for the Saints.

There was never any divine revelation from God, it was just Joseph's way of controlling the Saints and it continues on to this day, not to mention, it's a great money maker now as well. Emma along with the other Relief Society ladies, created and designed the garment and Joseph said, "looks good." Wow, now that was inspiration.

They figure if they can convince you to both buy and wear their special underwear, because it will protect you, then they've got you right where they want you. Come on people, when we allow someone or some cult masquerading as a Church, to dictate to us what underwear to wear, we've lost our identity completely and have submitted ourselves to their complete control. Think about it!!

Anyway, back to these articles. The first one says:

"It was pretty scary but a peaceful feeling knowing he was all right. He's out doing the Lord's work and that's what we're proud of."

You see, these Parents think that he will be protected no matter what, due to the fact that he's "out doing the Lord's work." Tell that to the families that have lost their Sons or Daughters. So, if it comes down to actually being "their time to go" for some and "being protected and not their time to go, for others", it really has nothing to do with being protected by the Lord, right?

The Lord offers no special protections for Mormon missionaries, any more than he protected all of the people in New Orleans or the people that were in the path of destruction from the Tsunami or 9/11. Shit happens and sometimes it's horrific and God doesn't single out Mormon Missionaries above the rest of the world. In fact, I'm seriously wondering when, if ever, he intervenes and if he does, why? Anyway, I've written about that before, but you do have to wonder, with all the rape, murder and death that happen on a daily basis.

Anyway, for missionaries and everybody else, it seems completely random and has nothing to do with being on a mission or being a Mormon. In fact, if they die on their mission, they would have died at home somehow, because their time was up, right? It was predestined in heaven for them to die, exactly when they did? Nope, I don't think so but I'm just trying to use the Mormon mindset. They try to have it both ways.

If they live through a situation like this one above, all is well, God, garments, the spirit, everything came together and intervened, and it's just another heart warming, faith promoting example of how God protects his warriors, his Mormon servants, and sure to be heard in Sacrament meeting testimonies as confirmation of how the Church is even truer than it was before.

But if they die, then they were taken home by God, their existence was completed and they are needed on the other side for missionary work. I say balderdash to that BS. That's pure Mormon BS!! Oh yeah, and they died doing what they loved most!!

No mention of why their garments didn't protect them. No mention of why the Lord didn't save them, as if that now doesn't matter. It's called cognitive dissonance folks and that's what the Mormon Church is entirely founded upon. Only focus on the positive and never even consider logic or the negative or try to make real sense of anything.

Only search for the positives in every situation, even if it doesn't make a shred of sense or a bit of common sense. Just throw out everything, that doesn't make the Mormon Church and it's grand plan shine. After all, the Mormon Church is true and that's all there is to it. It's just that simple!!

Zach fell hard to the ground, was knocked unconscious and started seizing. His companion was left to defend himself and was also punched in the face.

I guess it's just me, but when you fall to the ground and smack your head hard enough to go into seizures, that sounds pretty serious to me. If I were his Parents, I would have been on the next flight out to go be with my Son. The Church should have taken care of that right away, but oh yeah, there's that rule that you can't see anyone you know, especially family, while you are on your mission, so that's out.

When police arrived, Zach's companion, still conscious, was hauled to jail with the man who'd just beat him up.

Dumb-ass Mexican police, arresting the missionary, what Morons!! I'm sure the other guy, that was beating up the woman, was drunk off his ass, but who knows. Plus, I'm sure that the woman told the police that the missionaries helped her or saved her.

When Zach regained consciousness the next day (Sunday), Elder Zuniga was bailed out of jail by the local bishop just in time to perform 3 new convert baptisms. Right after the baptisms, he went straight to the hospital for reconstructive surgery.

Okay, this is where I start to get pissed off!! First of all, he spent the night in a Mexican jail and had done nothing wrong. When was the Church notified? Maybe they tried to get him out sooner and I hope that was the case. I'm not gonna say that they didn't because I don't know and I only hope that they made every effort as soon as they were notified, to get this poor young man out of a Mexican jail.

Now, he got bailed out, just in time to perform 3 new convert baptisms? Are you serious? So, was that the only reason they bailed him out? What a joke!! So, his nose is busted up, needs reconstructive surgery to repair the damage, but they let him go perform 3 baptisms, before going to the hospital? If this example doesn't prove that numbers are more important than a missionaries health, then I don't know what does.

To recap: the guys spends the night in a dirty Mexican jail cell, falsely arrested after doing a good deed, has a busted up nose that needs immediate reconstructive surgery and must hurt like hell, but he goes straight from jail, to perform 3 baptisms. Amazing!!

I don't admire him for it, rather I pity him and I fault the Church for allowing it to happen, but it's all about the numbers. After all, if they had postponed the baptisms, maybe those people would have changed their mind or something. You've gotta strike when the iron is hot, right?

I guess I do admire his determination, but it's that whole fear of not performing or getting the numbers or appearing weak, that drives these poor kids to do these type of things, even under extreme situations and quite frankly, it is what the Church expected him to do and he knew that too.

I did it too on my mission. I'd go out to teach a discussion, when I just threw up pure black stuff and had never felt sicker. I had a fever, my whole body ached, but I had to do it for the Lord. It makes me sick to read about and remember!!

"All parents worry for their sons safety, but we realize what he's doing is what we feel is the lord's work and they will be protected no matter. There will be incidents, but always watched over and protected." says Gary.

There you go, exactly what I pointed out above!! They have this false sense of security, both the Missionaries and the Parents, that is put into their mind by the cult, that they will be "protected no matter" and "watched over and protected."

Well, not if it's their time to go and God needs them for missionary work in spirit prison, right? Or is it that war that's going on and he needs his Generals? Some BS anyway, whatever they come up with as the reason, it's always something new and creative. He won't watch over them and protect them then, will he? Not if he needs them in heaven for some reason. Good to see that it wasn't time for these Elders to go.

I know that they have to say these things to convince themselves that he'll always be okay, but wake up man. The next time he might die and the Church is not looking out for these guys, nor do they care what happens to them. Trust me, I've been there and seen it first hand, as have many of my friends. The Mormon cult does not give a damn about these missionaries and never will. If they die, they are a martyr for the cause and they will try to publicize the death in order to maximize the moment and gain numbers and converts. Very sad, but the truth!!

Doctors say Elder Zach Peterson will be fine. He'll just need to spend a week in bed to recover. His companion, Elder Zuniga is recovering from surgery as well, and is expected to be back in good health soon, too.

Both Elders are expected to serve out the remainder of their missions in Mexico.

Yeah, give them a week and business as usual right? I'm sure that there was no mental or psychological damage involved, but oh well, who gives a damn, just go BAPTIZE THE WORLD ELDERS BECAUSE WE DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOUR WELL BEING.

Now, my comments on the Newspaper article:

Instead of immediately getting help for a broken nose, the young man went to baptize three converts the two had been working with. After the baptism, he sought medical attention.

This is where it was confirmed that it was his nose that needed the reconstructive surgery. Anyway, you know from what I said above, how I feel about this.

“Our stake president reassured us right away that Zach was OK,” Sherri said. “That helped us a lot that we knew he was OK.

Yeah, how did he know he was okay? He was knocked unconscious after getting clubbed in the jaw and then smacking his head on the ground hard enough to knock him out cold. But he was OK? Was he there? Anyway, this is called cover your ass and say what they want to hear, until you really know how he is. Thankfully, he was okay, the next day, when he finally woke up that is. After all, a concussion is no big deal, when you do it for the Lord.

”Since the confrontation, Sherri has spoken with Zach and e-mailed him too, and Zach has confirmed he’ll be all right.

Wow, they actually broke the rules and made an exception for Sherri, Zach's Mom, to talk to him? That's unheard of!! I hope that she didn't send him more than 1 Email in the week or he'll be busted for sure. After all, the Church closely monitors and screens all of the missionaries Emails and reads them too, both what they write and receive.

Well, at least they can see what Zach and his Mom are writing to each other, so that they can either clean up the Emails or just delete them, to avoid any negative attitudes by either side, not that there would be any in their happy TBM paradise. Also, good to see that Zach said that he'll be all right, considering that is what the Mission tells all Missionaries to tell their Parents, no matter how bad off they really are.

After all, I once again, speak from personal experiences. Once I was really sick and told my Parents and I think I was almost sent to outerdarkness when my Parents called the mission home. I was punished, black listed and blasted by the ASS-istant to never do such a thing again. Scumbags!! Damn cult!!

Upon receiving the stake president’s call, Gary Petersen said he had a peaceful feeling knowing that Zach was all right. “He’s doing the Lord’s work and that’s what we’re proud of.”

What he felt was actually optimism and the hope that his Son would be okay. You have to feel that way in a moment like that, of desperation. His reason for believing that he'd be okay, was completely flawed though. As I pointed out above, doing the Lord's work, has nothing to do with anything. If you are gonna die or get killed, you will die and get killed, it's just life and many times, it's beyond our control, although we hate to admit that.

The Church plants these thoughts in our head from a very young age, so if something happens, even in the case of them dying, we'll hopefully be okay with it and keep paying our tithing. Hell, maybe we'll even be stronger than before and be more comforted in the death of our loved one, since we are the only Church to teach "Eternal Families."

Like Wilford Woodruff says: He often taught that the death of a righteous Latter-day Saint is both a trying time and a time to rejoice. In fact, toward the end of his life he wrote the following instructions concerning his own funeral: “I do not wish my family or friends to wear any badge of mourning for me at my funeral or afterwards, for if I am true and faithful unto death there will be no necessity for anyone to mourn for me.”.....yeah, whatever dude, although I certainly don't mourn for you, so you got your wish!!

Oh yeah, and who can forget the words of Boyd K. Packer regarding funerals? Read them for yourselves, they are pathetic and sad.

Another thought too, that would make people need or want to become even more committed through the death of a missionary or active loved one, is the fact that if they believe that their loved ones went to the Celestial Kingdom, now they have to live their life accordingly, in order to be with them, or risk letting them and God down and being separated for Eternity. Wow, what a great plan of fear!!

While getting a call that your 20-year-old son has been hurt far away from home can be nerve-wracking, Sherri said she has spoken with the mission president and has the utmost trust in him to keep Zach safe.

Sherri, I hate to tell you this, but there's a good chance that he is lying to you and won't be keeping an eye on him or protecting him, once he's back baptizing. Again, sadly, in the Church's eyes, if he dies, he dies, but he did it for the Lord, so it will be okay. Yeah, how big is the mission, how many missionaries? Is your Son drinking parasite water, eating contaminated food? Has he been deathly ill more than once since being there?

I'm sure he has been and I'm sure that he was pressured to work, even in those times. After all, in Hinckley's new book of his best speeches, that's out right now, he slams sick missionaries and says that it's their fault if they are sick and that the work, "grinds to a halt" and they need to take better care of themselves. Hey Hinckley, how about you take better care of the missionaries and protect them, so that they don't have to get so sick.

Trust me, any safety that Zach has, will be from Zach, not from any Mission President, or zone leader or ASS-istant who are all getting blasted to increase numbers on a daily basis from the Area Presidency and Salt Lake, at any cost. Oh yeah, and they're paying for this privilege?

“All parents worry for their son’s safety, but we realize what he’s doing is what we feel is the Lord work and he will be protected no matter what,” Gary said.

The two young missionaries will spend the week recuperating.

Zach will fulfill his mission and is expected to be home in November. His grandparents, Gary and Ann Petersen are West Bountiful residents.

Anyway, same statement from the other article, so I've already commented. But yeah, give them a week, to recover mentally and physically and then back to baptizing people into the now ALTERNATIVE Mormon religion. Honestly, I feel horrible for these missionaries Parents, because number one, their sons could have been killed and were injured, in a foreign country and they couldn't even see them. You know after the week of recuperation, there communication will once again go back to the limited, minimal contact that is allowed.

Hey, by the way, why is it anyway, that the Church is so terrified of young men and women, to have phone contact with their families? Why do they limit missionaries to 1 email incoming and outgoing a week? Why do they tell missionaries to tell their families and friends to limit letter writing? It couldn't be because they don't want their families to know how bad they are doing, how bad their conditions are, etc, could it? Nah, it's just a command from God, kind of like when blacks couldn't have the Priesthood. After all, you may not understand the Mormon God, but he has his reasons and he must be obeyed.

Secondly, they have such a false sense of security that no matter what, their kids will be okay. Hopefully nothing else will happen to these or any other missionaries, who believe they are servants of the Lord and protected with a special forcefield of the Lord or something. This is the kind of stuff that makes the Mormon Church so dangerous.

But, if anything else does happen, the Church will use it to take advantage and pad their bottom line, as they always do. There's nothing like being a martyr in the Mormon Church, just ask Joseph Smith. They bank their whole Church on the fact that he sealed his bogus testimony with his evil pedophile blood.

The Mormon cult loves it anytime they can claim a new martyr to hold up to the world, to help them proclaim the veracity of their fraud.

Now, it seems appropriate to once again, use and close with the kind loving words from M. Russell Ballard, right after Morgan W. Young was shot and killed and his companion shot and the 2 missionaries in New Zealand were killed in a fiery crash:

Elder Ballard says the work of the Lord through the missionary program of the Church will continue:This work will continue to go forward regardless of what happens, regardless of what the future may hold. If there are other missionaries that are hurt or other missionaries that are killed, it will not stop this work.

Joseph Smith made that abundantly clear that there would be nothing that would stop this work from rolling forward till the Great Jehovah comes forward and says the work is done. And He hasn't said that yet.

Elder M. Russell Ballard
Member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

Text of the remark

Audio of the remark

He also said the following:

When you say, What kind of work do we do to see that the missionaries are kept in safe places and that they proselyte in safe places? We do the very, very best we know how, under the supervision of inspired, called, wonderful mission presidents and their wives.

Elder M. Russell Ballard
Member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

Text of the remark

Audio of the remark

Here is a link to a summary of his talk which doesn't even include the fullness of the above quotes:"This Work Will Continue to Go Forward"Elder Ballard talks about missionary safety January 6, 2006

Wow, isn't the love and compassion of the Mormon Hierarchy just wonderfull?!!

Samuel the Utahnite

"MORMONS"(We) claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege....

.....let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Oh really? Mormons actually believe this? I thought that they had the only true Church on the planet earth? Isn't that what they claim? So in other words, "let them worship how, where, or what they may", but if it isn't what we Mormons preach and believe, then they're screwed, right?

So, you're free to do it but you will be punished accordingly, for all Eternity by Joseph Smith and the Mormon God and Jesus. Just another one of the so many contradictions that exist in Mormonism.

It seems to me that I spent 2 years in Argentina, telling people that their religion was wrong and they needed to be Mormons if they wanted an Eternal Family and exaltation in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom, in order to be able to live with Heavenly Father again...I guess that I just imagined all of that, since people can actually believe whatever the hell they want, right? NOT!!

If people can believe whatever the hell they want, then what the f@#% is the missionary program for and what was I doing for 2 years? I guess I was just really wasting my time, even more than I thought I was and damn, now I'm really pissed....LOL!!

Well, at least I met some amazing people along the way and learned a new language and culture, saw some hot Argentine babes, etc. It's just too bad that I had to convert them to a fraud and couldn't date them instead. Oh well, hopefully they are all inactive now, at least I pray that they are. I never thought that I'd say that 9 months ago but how quickly things change.

Let me just share a few things, AGAIN, that show that this "article of faith 11" is bogus and isn't the truth and is a complete lie and misrepresentation of what Mormons actually believe, specifically the Mormon Hierarchy. People in this life or the next, are only allowed to believe in one thing; Mormonism!! Thus the reason for temples and work for the dead!! Isn't it obvious? The entire foundation of Mormonism is based on the First Vision, saying that every other Church is an abomination with false creeds and corrupt professors!!

If they want to have an Eternal Family, be with their loved ones and be able to live with God, then they must believe in Mormonism and have the baptism and all the ordinances(baptism, endowment, washings and anointings and sealings) done for them in a Mormon temple.

If not, they will be rendered to a lower Kingdom, separated from their Families and loved ones and God, forever and all Eternity. There is no progression from one kingdom to another, but you can progress within the Kingdom you are in, to infinity, except for the Celestial Kingdom of course. In the Celestial Kingdom, you are locked into wherever you are put at the time of judgment. Did you get all that?

Of course, in the Terrestrial Kingdom, they can be with Jesus and even in the Telestial, they at least get the Holy Ghost, but only the special, active, true-believing Mormons, get to be in the Celestial Kingdom with God and Jesus. Even those in the Celestial Kingdom, won't be able to continue procreating with their endless,polygamous concubines, creating worlds without numbers and populating them with endless spirit babies, unless they are in the HIGHEST DEGREE of the Celestial Kingdom.

You know, the HIGHEST DEGREE of the Celestial Kingdom, where Joseph Smith and Brigham Young hang out with their concubines and while reminiscing(in between sex acts) about all of their sexual conquests with little girls on earth...yep...isn't it wonderful?!!

Now, like I said above, there is no progression within the Celestial Kingdom, those judgments are final, so even there, you will encounter a type of hell in not being at level one, the highest level while you are stuck for eternity at level 2 or 3. Man that's gonna suck!!

You'll have to see Joseph and Briggy baby, strutting around with all their women, like Hugh Hefner, bragging about their sexual conquests and you get nothing, not even a touch or a squeeze!! They will live in the Celestial Playboy Mansion. My understanding is also that you will never be able to have sex again, unless you are in that highest degree of Celestiality...Damn it!!

Doesn't that blow that such a big part of our earthly life and enjoyment will be gone forever? So, if we are not in the Celestial Kingdom, that means, no sex, no family, no friends, forever living in solitary confinement....damn, who wants that? What the hell are we gonna do? Just sit around, pissed off for Eternity, because we pissed away our earthly existence, weren't an active Mormon and can't have concubines like Joseph and Briggy, with endless worlds and spirit babies?

If that's really the case, I'd rather be in outer darkness, so I'm very grateful that is were I'm heading, according to Mormon Doctrine.

Brigham Young and many others, also taught that worthy blacks, even after receiving the Priesthood, will be nothing more than ministering angels to the 3 levels of the Celestial Kingdom. That's right, there will also be ministering angels, which as I just mentioned, includes the blacks, a teaching never rescinded and they will also include people that could have gotten married in this life, but didn't take advantage of their chances. Isn't it just wonderful?

Oh yeah and I mentioned Outer Darkness, where I'll be heading and any anti-Mormon or apostate or non-Christian/non-believer and here are some scriptures, explaining my fate and detailing what our life will be like:

Doctrine and Covenants 76

30 And we saw a vision of the sufferings of those with whom he made war and overcame, for thus came the voice of the Lord unto us:

31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—

32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;

33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;

34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—

35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.

36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—

37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;

38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.

39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made.

40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us—

41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;

42 That through him all might be saved(Except the Sons of Perdition..oops!!) whom the Father had put into his power and made by him;

43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him. (Which means, or equals denying or rejecting Mormonism. You can only believe in the Mormon God and Jesus or you are damned. So, if you leave Mormonism and believe in the traditional Jesus, which Hinckley admits he doesn't, you are, by Mormon definition, a Son of perdition.)

44 Wherefore, he saves all except them—they shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the evil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment—

45 And the end thereof, neither the place thereof, nor their torment, no man knows;

46 Neither was it revealed, neither is, neither will be revealed unto man, except to them who are made partakers thereof;

47 Nevertheless, I, the Lord, show it by vision unto many, but straightway shut it up again;

48 Wherefore, the end, the width, the height, the depth, and the misery thereof, they understand not, neither any man except those who are ordained unto this condemnation.

49 And we heard the voice, saying: Write the vision, for lo, this is the end of the vision of the sufferings of the ungodly.

Wow, but I'm free to believe anyway I want, right? Damn!! Good thing that Joseph Smith and the Mormon Hierarchy don't rule by fear, right? Let's see, first of all, I and anyone who has left Mormonism, is referred to as a Son of Perdition and it would have been better if we were never born. I guess the Mormon God screwed up there, knowing what I was gonna become, before I even left heaven, since he knows the beginning from the end, right?

Then, we are referred to as "vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity." Then, it gets even better, when we are told that, " there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come— Having denied the Holy Spirit(The Mormon Holy Spirit) after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father(The Mormon Jesus), having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame."

Wow, I'm actually re-crucifying Jesus Christ unto myself and putting him to open shame", all because I'm not a Mormon anymore..wow...it's pretty serious now, isn't it? Then we are told that we, "shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels— And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power.

That's awesome man, I get to hang out with the devil and his angels too, in a lake of fire and brimstone? All of this, just because I turned my back on Mormonism? Now I'm really stoked!! Can we go water skiing on that lake with the devil driving the boat? That would be a blast!! I'm sure that I can get acclimated to that hot water if I'm living their for Eternity...LOL!!

Now, just to make sure that there isn't any confusion, in verse 44-46, it is confirmed again, "they shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the devil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment— And the end thereof, neither the place thereof, nor their torment, no man knows(So why bother to bring it up, besides, I thought it was God talking?); Neither was it revealed, neither is, neither will be revealed unto man, except to them who are made partakers thereof.

Wow, even though Joseph was a Prophet of God, the punishment is so horrible and awful, that even he couldn't have it revealed to him how awful the torment was, nor where it was, nor the end of it. Also, WORMS are all going to hell, but won't burn? What did the worms ever do to deserve that? Now I'm really offended on behalf of the worms!! Joseph Smith had no right to condemn innocent worms to hell. Are they all apostates too? That's where I draw the line!!

It's good to know that I will get to know what it's like in hell, since I will be a "partaker thereof", and proud of it, by the way. Again, remember, this will all happen because I was Mormon, had the full light, the Mormon Holy Ghost and then denied both the Mormon Holy Ghost and the Mormon Jesus Christ.

Amazing isn't it? The moral of the story; whatever you do, don't become a Mormon with a testimony unless you intend to stick it out or you will burn in flames for all Eternity in a place that "the end, the width, the height, the depth, and the misery thereof, they understand not, neither any man except those who are ordained unto this condemnation."

So, if you have any doubts, don't do it!! When the Mormon missionaries say, "Will you be baptized on Saturday, February 25, 2006, in that Mormon Church on the corner, right after the first discussion, say HELL NO and run!!

Just wait until you die and are on the other side and then use your "one chance" or "get out of hell" card, to accept or reject Mormonism there. That way, you can live an easy life here, without all the pressures and stress of being a perfect Mormon and then vault to Celestial glory on the other side, laughing at those of us dumb-asses, that converted here and then just barely fell short.

At least this way, you will know for 100% sure, that there is an afterlife and a God, be reunited with your loved ones, without any requirement of faith. Sounds just to me!! What a plan eh? Isn't it wonderful?

Better to die a non-Mormon, who never got a chance to hear and accept the only true Gospel of Jesus Christ and trust me, I'm not exaggerating at all, this is the way it really is. Just remember, you can believe anything you like, just like the Mormon's Article of Faith 11 says you can, but your sufferings will be Eternal if those beliefs aren't Mormonism.

Amazing isn't it, that Jesus Christ was actually a Mormon...wow, I'm surprised that he didn't talk about Nephi and Lehi to his Apostles in the New Testament and tell them all about those amazing Jaredite wooden submarines, full of animals and feces, that floated for a year to America.

At least they were protected from the whales and shit(pun intended), that could have been disastrous and. I wonder if anyone got stung by any of the honeybees...I bet those bees were pissed man...LOL....sorry, I got carried away for a second.

Now, let me share a few other verses that confirm that you must be Mormon, either in this life or the next, or suffer the Dyer consequences and be considered a tool of the devil himself.The bottom line is that Mormons both believe and are taught that they are THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE CHURCH ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH.

JOSEPH SMITH HISTORY-FIRST VISION:

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join NONE of them, for they were all WRONG; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an ABOMINATION in his sight; that those professors were all CORRUPT; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."

20 He again FORBADE me to join with ANY of them;

BOOK OF MORMON REFERENCES:

1 Ne. 14: 10

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the DEVIL; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the WHORE of all the earth.

1 Ne. 14: 11

11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the WHORE of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

1 Ne. 14: 12

12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the WHORE who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great WHORE whom I saw.

1 Ne. 14: 17

17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the MOTHER OF HARLOTS, which is the GREAT and ABOMINABLE church of all the earth, whose founder is the DEVIL, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.

Doctrine and Covenants

D&C 29: 21

21 And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for abominations shall not reign.

D&C 76:71-80

71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.

72 Behold, these are they who died without law;

73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;

74 Who received NOT THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS IN THE FLESH, BUT AFTERWARDS RECEIVED IT. (Hmm, just a little problem here, since this seems to cancel out the whole "they can accept Mormonism in the next life." It clearly says here, without equivocation or exception, that if they receive their testimony of Jesus, in the next life and not here on earth, in the flesh, the best they can hope to attain, is terrestrial glory. OOPS!!)

75 These are they who are HONORABLE MEN OF THE EARTH, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.

76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.

77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.

79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.

80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit. And then finally......

Doctrine and Covenants 1:30

30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, THE ONLY TRUE AND LIVING CHURCH UPON THE FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—

So, they can sugar coat things and say that all of the other Churches are great and that they are their friends, have lots of good in them and that they just want to add to the good that they already have, etc, but the bottom line is you must be Mormon, whether in this life or the next, if you want to live with The Father and The Son, and have an Eternal Family, and any shot at exaltation, right?

Furthermore, as I pointed out above, it does say in D&C, that those "Who received NOT THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS IN THE FLESH, BUT AFTERWARDS RECEIVED IT", which includes the "HONORABLE MEN OF THE EARTH", will only be worthy of the Terrestrial Kingdom and the presence of the Son but will not have the fullness of the Father?

How screwed up is that and doesn't it undermine, very strongly, the fact that Mormons are doing all of that temple work? Seems like a waste of time and money, to build all of those temples and do all of that work, so that people can only make it to the terrestrial kingdom, right? What would be the point? These teachings basically make a persons life on earth, irrelevant, if they aren't Mormon and therefore the need to do their temple work is also irrelevant. Wow, what contradictions, how ridiculous it all is!!

So, I'm not sure how converting on the other side, in the spirit, not in the flesh, will help them, other than avoiding the Telestial Kingdom and they still won't be able to have an Eternal Family or be with their friends or family anyway, which is only available in the Celestial Kingdom, so what the hell is the point?

So the Mormon God will still separate them from their loved ones and friends, just because they didn't join the Mormon Church in the flesh and waited to do it on the other side? It sure sucks, but that appears to be the case, according to the Mormon Church's teachings. I hope that some of you out there are at least beginning to see this ridiculous plan of salvation for what it is, a complete joke!!

Can other people not even socialize or "hang out" in the lower kingdoms at all? Can we only be with strangers and not family members due to our lack of practicing or accepting Mormonism in the flesh? After all, Eternal Families are only for Celestial people, so, if they say at any point, we can be with family members in lower kingdoms, what would be the point of trying to get to the Celestial Kingdom to have that elusive Eternal Family, which Mormons preach as being the big prize in the Celestial kingdom?

If you take away that big prize and incentive, that drives the Church, it renders the major purpose of Mormonism completely meaningless. Sorry guys, you can't have it both ways anymore!!

On the other hand, if their own doctrine is correct and the best "great and noble men (and women)" can hope for is Terrestrial glory, then temple work is meaningless. Let's just say it again, it's all a fraud people, WAKE UP!! It doesn't even make any sense at all, if any of you turn on your brains and thinks for just a minute. I'm a common sense guy and this has no common sense at all!!

That plan sure seems strange and once again, makes no sense and is completely idiotic. As you can see, it's not hard to punch massive holes in this Mormon so-called Plan of Salvation. It so ridiculous, when you really stop to think about it ,that is seems like something created by a small child. Then again, a small child could probably come up with something better and more creative than this with less holes.

There is just no other way to see things, as the Mormon scriptures are very clear. I was always taught that if someone accepts the Gospel in the next life, due to not having the chance in this life, (including Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Hussein, Bin laden, etc,) that they can inherit the Celestial Kingdom. Everybody gets their one chance they say.It sure contradicts the D&C, about having to accept in the flesh, while in this life doesn't it?

One thing for sure though, is that the Mormons are taught and teach as a Church, through their Prophets, Apostles, scriptures, and most importantly, the first vision, that either you are the Church of God or the Church of the Devil and the whore of all the earth.

So any other Church, other than the Mormon Church, is indeed the Church of the devil, a whore and Mother of Harlots and run by the Devil himself. That sounds pretty evil to me and it makes sense why they are so scared of other religions and especially those of us that have left the Mormon Church. We are the purest form of evil that exists on earth, Sons of perdition in embryo, Joseph Smith said so himself after probably getting drunk on wine and then having some intoxicated vision.

In fact, and you have to trust me on this one guys, in the Church Handbook of Instructions, for Bishops, in one spot, it actually ranks apostates as the number one threat to "innocent members" that they need to protect them from, even above Predators.

Wow, some guy might be stalking the neighborhood for your kids or your wife or hell, even you, but you need to be more concerned with the apostate because he might tell you something damaging about the Church? My friends, that speaks a thousand words and tells you all you need to know. Nothing terrifies or threatens the Mormon Church Hierarchy, more than apostates. We are their greatest fear, good to know!!

But WOW, they call that a plan a salvation? Seriously? How about a plan of stupidity, confusion and absurdities!! Joseph must have smoked and drank some pretty damn powerful substances to have come up with all of this chaos. The stunning thing is that people believed it then and believe it now...WOW is right!! Hell, even I believed it, before I thought it out that is.

I bet he and the others, had some pretty good "LOUD LAUGHTER", at the expense of those that believed and trusted them, as they counted their money on the way to their failed bank. Maybe that was why "LOUD LAUGHTER" was banned in the temple covenant, so that people wouldn't laugh at him and his ideas loudly and publicly.

After all, they didn't want their neck slit from ear to ear, along with their chest and stomach, to be cut open and fed to the fowls of the air. Ah, the reason for blood atonement makes more sense too now, doesn't it?

Joseph, above everybody, knew that he was a fraud, I have no doubt. He had been a fraud, swindler, criminal for his entire life and he knew it, even admitted it to Emma's dad, was convicted of it several times, etc. He promised Emma's Dad, crying, on his knees, that he would change, stop defrauding people with his treasure hunting in order to have Emma's hand in marriage and then shortly after marrying Emma, he "found" the golden plates and then started the Church. Yeah, looks like he really changed, doesn't it?

I wonder if he ever told Emma's Dad that he planned on having sex with as many women and little girls as he could get his dick on? Yeah, I doubt it, but we can't blame Joseph for that, right, since God sent his homicidal, flaming sword wielding angel, to threaten him and force him to do it or face death. Hell, didn't know that angels could come to earth with real swords and slay people? That Joseph was amazing!!

He really didn't want to, but God made him do it, against his wishes and also forced him to hide it from Emma, cuz she wouldn't understand. Yeah, I think that we've heard that one before, what an evil disgrace he was. It reminds me of Nephi not wanting to cut of Laban's head but the spirit made him do it. It's almost like Joseph and Nephi were one in the same..hmmm, you think?

Then in D&C 132, you have God threatening to kill Emma over and over, by destroying her, if she doesn't accept Joseph's adultery, I mean polygamy. Man, that Mormon God, always threatening to destroy and kill people, if they don't obey. He is one pissed off hombre!!

The truth is, he never changed, just became even more evil and immoral. That also explains why he first tried to sell the copyright to the Book of Mormon. His first goal was money all along, isn't it obvious? What would have happened if he had sold the copyright to the Book of Mormon? Unless the other man had started it, the Church wouldn't even exist. Was that God's great plan?

After having the Jaredites and Nephites, maintaining and writing on plates for about 2,000 years, then hiding them in the Hill Cumorah for another 1,400 years or so; and then going to all the trouble of the First Vision, plus Moroni's visits, Joseph's sins, translation with Joseph's head buried in a hat, reading words and letters off of a seer stone (that he found in some ladies well) and everything else that happened, only to end up selling the copyright to some dude in Canada? Yeah, makes sense to me!!

Either Joseph was just acting as that silly human man again, not a Prophet at that moment,(Even though he had a Prophetic vision, telling him to sell the copyright) or I guess the Mormon God intervened, right? Whatever!! It couldn't have been greed could it? Was that what it was really all about? No way!! A known convicted, defrauding treasure hunter, getting greedy and doing what he had always done, defrauding people? Nah!!

The truth is, he knew exactly what he was doing all along, just like all the times he had done it before, and nobody could ever convince me otherwise. His first goal was to sell the copyright and Profit and all the money was to go to him, that was very clear, to pay off all of their deep debts that had accumulated. I'm sure that was also why, after receiving the Word of Wisdom, that Joseph Smith put a bar in his living room, to once again make filthy lucre.

Hey, we've come full circle today, with the Mormon Hierarchy agreeing to allow alcohol to be served in their malls. They are just simply following the example of Joseph Smith. PRAISE TO THE MAN, RIGHT?

Too bad the Mormon God hadn't taken care of his blessed Prophet of the restoration. Hell, if angels can come down wielding flaming swords and he can take the plates to heaven, bring them back, take them back again,etc, why couldn't he have just dropped some big gold bars on his head? I guess that would make too much sense and make it too easy. Better for Joseph to commit criminal acts and defraud people, in order to further the work of God, right? Yeah, it all makes sense now, doesn't it? He had to suffer and learn...yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah.

So, when selling the copyright didn't work and fizzled out, he had no choice but to try to start a Church, which he did, not too long after, to make his money. Of course at this point, nobody even knew about the First Vision, including even Joseph himself, according to his journals, that he had seen God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son.

In reality, people wouldn't really know about this until the 1850's, which included Brigham Young. The account that the Mormons use today wasn't even written until 1838 and was around the 9th version, each getting grander, as it evolved into the nice little fairly tale that we now have today. If Joseph Smith were alive today, doing exactly what he did back then, he would probably be on death row, a convicted felon,in a federal penitentiary, set for execution or, at least, be spending life in prison with no parole.

Chances are, that he would have been killed in prison for his pedophilia, as even hardened criminals, don't take too kindly to grown men, 37 years old, that marry, rape and molest little girls, 14, 15 and 16 years old, like Joseph Smith did to Helen Mar Kimball, especially if they claim that they did it in the name of and under the threat of God killing them. Then again, he might just be in a mental hospital, in a padded room, for the insane people, that think they talk and act in behalf of God.

With all of the stories in the news these days, about grown men and women, having sex with kids, I have the chance to reflect on Joseph's escapades quite often and it makes me more and more disgusted and sickened. How can anyone believe that he was justified or commanded of God to do what he did and commit the whoredomes and abuses that he perpetrated on these poor young women and their families?

You people that actually believe this was okay and from God, must be sick, twisted, or both. If you condone what Joseph Smith did, you are just as bad as he was. I'm very happy to say that I don't side with felons or pedophiles, unlike some of you apparently do, nor do I believe that any God would ever command such awful things of any man.

Anyway, I digress, the bottom line is that Mormons preach that people are free to believe whatever they want. But if that were a true Mormon doctrine, you wouldn't see a force of 50,000 missionaries out there, all over the world, trying to convert the world to Mormonism, while telling them that Mormonism is the only path to exaltation and God, for both them and their dead; the only truth on the earth and that their Church is false. If their Church isn't false, or an abomination, after all, (as Jesus said to Joseph Smith), then they have a big problem on their hands.

The Mormon Church currently wants everyone to believe, in the current Mormon opinion and BS, being spread by the likes of Hinckley and others, that Mormonism is an alternative religion.If that is the case, then there is no point to Mormonism or anything that they are doing, including the missionary program. They have always banked on being "The only true Church."

If Mormons are now admitting publicly, as they have and are, that Mormonism, isn't "THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE PATH TO RETURN TO GOD" and just an alternative, then they are calling their Jesus Christ a liar and the First Vision has no value at all. If Jesus Christ lied and the First Vision no longer holds any value, and they no longer claim to be the one and only true Church on the planet earth, then Joseph Smith wasn't a Prophet and the entire Church was founded and based on fraud and a lie.

Well, I already knew that, as do many of you, but this simply helps to prove it and show it to the world and all of you out there that haven't seen it yet, especially you TBMS. Listen to my next podcast, that will be out later today and you'll understand exactly what I'm talking about.

The Mormon Church is imploding on itself, with their constant contradictions and outright lies and that's why I'm here guys, along with many others; to simply point it out to you and the world while exposing this fraud to everyone for once and for all.

So, again, in conclusion, everybody out there, remember, the Mormons have "given people permission" to let them "worship how, where, or what they may" but at their own peril. If they aren't Mormon in this life or the next, they will not be able to live with God, their family or friends.

They will be Eternally separated from the God they may have worshiped and the ones they love, but it was their freedom to choose that path of destruction and separation, based on their rejection of Mormonism, either in this life or the next. Somehow, that doesn't seem like, or feel like freedom to believe whatever we want, does it?

It is the Mormon way!! It is the "ONLY WAY!!" MORMONISM OR SPIRITUAL DEATH? BUT FEEL FREE TO WORHSIP WHOEVER YOU WANT OKAY?!!

So, it's Mormonism or damnation, but it's your choice and don't feel pressured or anything, they aren't trying to manipulate you or force you into anything with fear. They just simply want to take your good and see if they can add to it. Yeah right!!

Samuel the Utahnite