Thursday, December 15, 2005

Mormon Apologist Jeff Lindsay says, "Please be as generous as you can, but if you have more to give, please don't let your generosity stop there."

Monday, December 12, 2005
Thinking Beyond Fast Offerings

The fast offering program of the Church has long been an inspiration to me. It is such a powerful concept, a way that we can all participate in helping the poor and needy among us. There are no overhead expenses, so 100% of what you donate will help someone, and personal care and attention goes into that help. How grateful I am for that program.

Latter-day Saints often assume that the best way to help the needy is to be generous in our donations through the fast offering program. Please be as generous as you can, but if you have more to give, please don't let your generosity stop there. In some cases, there are real needs that Church leaders are aware of that are difficult to address through the official fast offering program because of the wise restrictions and guidelines in its use. When I was a bishop, I truly appreciated a few generous souls who simply handed me cash and told me to find a good use for it - uses that fast offerings couldn't address. The donors weren't able to get a receipt or a tax deduction for this kindness, but there were several people in great need who were able to get more direct help through such means. Others would provide service or goods or cash directly to people they knew were in distress. Yes, fast offerings are wonderful, but sometimes alternate routes can provide further inspired help for those in need. In any case, I hope we can all strive to be more generous and thoughtful of those around us, especially those in times of hardship and financial stress. Recognize that throwing cash around makes some problems worse, so be wise and prayerful in what you do

posted by Mormanity @ 7:19 PM


Yeah, yeah, anything that the Mormon cult does to bring in more money, is an inspiration, right Jeff? Jeff Lindsay says, "There are no overhead expenses, so 100% of what you donate will help someone, and personal care and attention goes into that help." Exactly!! There is no overhead, ever, because the Mormon sheep/Morgbots, just pay, pray and obey, like they are commanded to do and cover the cost of everything, including the entire mission program. There isn't one thing that the Mormon Church does that costs them one penny out of pocket. This post by Jeff Lindsay, is absurd!! The Mormon Church brings in how many billions a year? How much do they use of that to feed the poor? They spend billions to fatten up their real estate portfolio, to help plan for the day when the billions stop flowing in, when everyone has finally realized that the Mormon Church is a complete fraud!! They spent how much on their new malls and now redeveloping basically all of down town Salt Lake, plus Ogden, Utah as well? How about the housing development in Hawaii? How about the luxury resort in Hawaii? How about the future "world trade center" in Utah that they now want to build? Need I go on?

Wake up Jeff Lindsay and everybody else that actually believes this crap!! You belong to a mind-controlling cult and they sure have a tight hold on your brain. You are an intelligent guy, with high degrees, but you can't see the light? Why do you waste your time, lying to the world about the truthfulness of the Mormon cult? Why do you have to make things up to help put the TBMS minds at ease? I'm guessing that Lynn G. Robbins talk from the April 2005 Conference, must have made Jeff Lindsay tingle from head to toe, especially the part when Lynn says, "One of the first things a bishop must do to help the needy is ask them to pay their tithing. Like the widow, if a destitute family is faced with the decision of paying their tithing or eating, they should pay their tithing." Yeah, it makes me tingle alright but in an anger unparalleled.

Here are some links to other posts that I've written regarding tithing that explain exactly what I feel and think regarding this matter. The Mormon Church absolutely and admittedly, robs from the poor. They give these talks with great pleasure. Why? Because they know that the mind-controlled sheep, will eat it up, take it to heart and pay and obey. After all, tithing is what could separate you from your loved ones in the next life. Amazing isn't it, that it all comes down to tithing/money. You can be a great person, help and feed the homeless, help your Family, love your Family, do all manner of good for the world and society, but unless you give 10% of your income to the Mormon Church, you will DIE spiritually, not be able to enter the Lord's house, in this life or the next and will not be worthy of the Celestial Kingdom or the presence of your Friends and Family that paid their tithing.

Here are those additional links for those that want to read more:

Does that sound like Family togetherness? Does sound like a Church that unites and doesn't divide? The Mormon Church is nothing but a divisive cult that rips Families apart. Let's just be clear, you have to buy, yes BUY your way into heaven. Nothing else matters!! If you don't pay up, that you must shut up and accept your fate. What a horrible teaching!! What fear!! Isn't it awful? Keep in mind that the fast offerings that Jeff Lindsay is talking about, are in addition to tithing, building fund, missionary fund, perpetual education fund, etc, etc. The Mormon Church expects everyone to give generously to all of these funds. Here is a good example of what the Mormon Church wants us to pay out. There are a couple of addtions....LOL!!

But I also want to question again, his statement, "There are no overhead expenses, so 100% of what you donate will help someone, and personal care and attention goes into that help." First of all, we don't know that "100% of what you donate will help someone", because the Mormon Church won't share with their membership, how much the bring in and how much goes out. So, that simply isn't true. Members are asked to turn over their money and have faith that these men will use it wisely. Bottom line, nobody ever knows what their money went for or who, if anybody it helped. The Mormon Hierarchy answer to nobody, at least on this earth. They could use that money to buy a brand new shiny Moroni to put on the temple in Africa, who's gonna stop them or even know about it? Besides, the TBM's, the sheep, completely trust these "men of God." I use that term very loosely!!

Then he says, "In some cases, there are real needs that Church leaders are aware of that are difficult to address through the official fast offering program because of the wise restrictions and guidelines in its use." Give me a damn break!! Yes, I know of these "wise restrictions and guidelines" that help many Bishops to refuse needy people in the ward, the Church's help. It's an outrage!! If they do help you, you must come in, humble yourself before the Bishop(The Lord) and poor out your heart with tears in your eyes. But then you must break down every bill you have, give them your complete financial situation, your history, etc. Then they ask you to shut off your cable, ride the bus to work, eat their low quality food, use their low quality of supplies(Just ask China) etc, all in order to be worthy of their financial help.

In many instances, you can do all of the above, and the answer is still NO. May God help you if you are going to be leaving the ward soon....they definitely won't help you then. Oh yeah, any financial help usually requires accepting a calling. If you are leaving the ward, well, no calling for you and no help. If they can't see a future return on their money, then SCREW YOU!! Oh yeah, and they always ask you to go to Family first, which obviously most people have either done or can't do, if they have arrived at the point of going to their Bishop.

Also, Bishops now have to call your former Bishop to see if you've had help before and to make sure that you aren't abusing the welfare system of the Church, hoping from ward to ward. Also, the Church frowns on accepting any Government welfare assistance and why would that be? It's because they want to be the ones in control of your life. They want you to 100% depend on them in times of need and bow down to them and kiss their asses. They also want to help teach you how to become self-reliant again, like they are. Of course, If I had 14 F'n million dollars a day(or more) flowing in, well, just maybe I'd never need to bow down to someone else for money or assistance? Ya think? Dumb asses!!

One other thing that always comes from asking or should I say begging the Mormon Church for help, is that they usually always make you "clean the Church", which includes "cleaning the shitter"(They fired all the janitors a few years ago due to money problems), "paint a fence", work at the cannery, work at DI, work at the Church's storehouse, etc, to once again, "be worthy" of their help. Why the hell can't they just help you, without all of the damn strings? I have had many friends, Family, etc, that have gone through exactly what I have just described. It happened in all different places, different Bishops, different situations, but the process, through the Church, was always the same as I describe. This is their welfare system in a nutshell.

Once again I mention that Jeff Lindsay says, "so 100% of what you donate will help someone." I say, show me the proof of that, because that statement is simply 100% false, based on the fact that the Mormon Church, refuses to share that information with those that are donating. I think it is wonderful to give to those that need, but by all means, do it directly, with no strings attached. The Mormon example is a shameful one and all about control. It has nothing to do with charity or Christ at all. They want to own you, make you theirs. That will insure, in their mind, that one day, through your tithes and offerings, that you will pay it all back. The Mormon Church never, EVER, does anything, without expecting a nice return on their investment. Why is this? Because they are a CULT, not a Church. They are posers!!

One more thing that sticks out from what Jeff Lindsay said, "When I was a bishop, I truly appreciated a few generous souls who simply handed me cash and told me to find a good use for it - uses that fast offerings couldn't address." Now, I'm not gonna say that Jeff wouldn't use that money for good, but to "simply hand the Bishop cash" is one of the most dumb ass, asinine things I've ever heard. Anyone that does that is a complete idiot!! Instead of handing that cash to the Bishop, go do some legwork, ask around, find out who needs help and go hand that cash to someone that needs it and that you KNOW will use if for good. What a joke!! Got that everyone!! DON'T EVER JUST HAND THE BISHOP CASH!! I'm sure in many instances, it would go straight into his pocket. Oh I forgot, all Bishops are called of God through revelation and would never be dishonest, no, NEVER!!

So, the bottom line, please, everyone, don't ever give the Mormon Church one red cent of your income as Jeff Lindsay advocates. Make a new years resolution to never ever donate to them again. On the flip side, if you have extra, want to help someone, then seek them out, find them and help them directly with no strings. God will bless you equally, if not more, than having to give it only to Mormons. At least this way, you know it won't be wasted on vain things of the world. The Mormon cult is just a Billion dollar corporation that doesn't give a rat's ass about anybody but themselves. The Mormon Hierarchy are just greedy, money hungry idolaters that rob from the poor every chance they get. Can anyone guess what they worship?

Samuel the Utahnite

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At Monday, September 11, 2006 9:50:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Samuel,

I assume you are sincere. And I absolutely defend your right to abandon LDS beliefs and choose a different set with which you feel more at peace. But your unrestrained, emotional screed has virtually no chance of bringing anyone out of the LDS Church. This site is the on-line equivalent of street preachers shouting at brides on the Salt Lake temple steps through bullhorns and stomping on temple garments.

I guess I should tell you to keep it up. LDS visitors who happen upon your site are not likely to read on with much interest after they have been verbally assaulted and their intelligence insulted.


At Sunday, September 30, 2007 7:59:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


You posted this a couple of years ago, but I'm willing to drop a line.

It's obvious that you were never a Bishop or Branch President. It's also obvious that you have either forgotten most of the Church's doctrine and policies governing welfare assistance ... or never knew it. I am a Branch President, and I can tell you that honest people receive assistance, dishonest people do not. If that bothers you then I can only express my disappointment over the little regard in which you hold your fellow man.

I'm not going to take the time to comment on everything you've said, but here are some comments on the highlights.

(1) "Mind-controlling cult" - You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but like many others, I've visited other churches, studied other doctrines, and found them all wanting. Pointing to anyone's adherence to the Church and claiming that it's proof of mind-control is like pointing to any American's devotion to his or her country and making the same claim. But, then again, you wouldn't have much of a soap box if you couldn't make outrageous statements (wait, that's a word you used...).

(2) "faced with the decision of paying their tithing or eating" --- Are you as antagonistic toward the U.S. welfare system? You should be. Your taxes pay for millions of people to loaf around. The Church's system is designed to not support people who want only to loaf around. No Bishop will let a family starve in an emergency --- but we have no desire to create welfare dependent families. The Bible does not teach that the poor should be exempt from donations. Quite the contrary, the parable of the widow's mite teaches that there is honor, fulfillment, and love in sacrifice. Such people will appreciate the assistance they receive and will work with Church leadership to overcome the need for assistance. Therefore, Bishops will gladly provide enough assistance to help families continue to donate. On the other hand, families that are just looking for a hand-out are, in fact, regularly turned away (had you ever been a Bishop or Branch President you would know that there are a LOT of people who systematically try to take advantage of the Church's generosity. If you think we're mean because we won't let such abuse happen, you're welcome to whatever other religion you prefer.)

(3) "the Church frowns on accepting any Government welfare assistance" --- You're dead wrong on this one. In fact, the Church usually asks and helps people to take advantage of government assistance programs. Our taxes paid for them, after all.

(4) "clean the church" --- callings? cleaning? Of course we ask people to do something for the assistance they receive! The reason world governments have examined the Church's welfare program is because free gifts only create welfare dependence. The Church isn't hear to feed families, it's here to help families learn to feed themselves. Expecting people to donate their time in return for their use of donated money, food, or services, teaches people respect for the gifts they are receiving and allows them the dignity of working for what they are receiving. Who wouldn't want this? Welfare frauds. On the flip-side, do we expect this of 100% of the people we assist? No, we don't, it depends on the amount of assistance and the frequency of assistance. For example, someone stuck in town without gas won't be asked to clean the church to get their gas --- they get their gas.

(4) "don't ever give the Mormon Church one red cent" --- This is the most laughable paragraph in your post. The LDS Church is known throughout the world for its generosity and welfare programs. You mention earlier in the post that you can't see any evidence of what the Church does with its fast offering monies --- that's because you're blinded even more than you believe the Mormons to be. The Church has humanitarian projects throughout the world, and spends billions of dollars on them --- from the individual Ward member to the desolate in Africa --- and the vast majority of humanitarian assistance we give (such as the hundreds of semi-trailers of food and clothing sent to Katrina vitims) is sent without strings, without expectation of return, and with love and kindness. The LDS Church has the most respected welfare program in the world for a reason ... it's too bad that you don't know this.


At Thursday, November 29, 2007 4:31:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let me see if I understand what you are saying here. It seems that you are saying that, in distributing its Fast Offerings, the LDS church strives to limit welfare fraud and preserves the dignities of individuals by allowing them to work for assistance received? Wow! What a concept!

At Thursday, November 29, 2007 4:35:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, and I forgot to include, encourages self reliance along with limiting welfare fraud and preserving individual dignity.

At Friday, December 07, 2012 2:36:00 AM, Blogger Sarah Lund said...

I am not an active member in the LDS church, nor have I been for some time now, but I can say with complete certainty of mind, that the money that people contribute to Fast Offerings helps those in need in the community. The money that the church uses to further their own plan (whether it be for real estate, temples, decor, whatever) that comes from Tithing and from investments. As members, they know this when they give their money. I have been helped by the church in times of need. The church, through fast offerings helped me with much needed medical issues. The only thing that is "required" is the tithing, anything above that is simply due to the generosity of the church's members.

I personally don't understand the desire to attack a particular religion, any religion for that matter.


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