Saturday, January 14, 2006

Well, I Was Finally Mentioned On Fair And I'm Honored!! It's About time Damn It!! So, Who Is The Real Bigot? Mormons could Start With Boyd K. Packer!

First of all, I just want to say that I've spent a "FAIR" amount of time reading the pathetic Fair Boards this past week, especially their titillating thread on "The Church's official position on the Hill Cumorah" and I'm truly astonished at the BS and the blind stupidity of so many of the posters. Can they be for real? Sadly yes!!They are either completely brainwashed by the cult, just plain stupid or without a shred of reading or learning comprehension. Their brains are Mormonized and currently owned by Hinckley. They worship FARMS, as if they are simply an extension of Deity.

It's very sad that most of these people seem to be very well spoken and intelligent on most anything, except when it comes to the Mormon Church. They have absolutely no common sense and are completely blinded. But, then again, when you are brainwashed into a cult, from birth, and surrounded by other cult members that all think alike, like you, well, it is to be expected.

At least this time around, nobody suggested the "Twilight Zone" theory of Moroni burying the plates in some hill in Mexico and then they like zoomed through a worm hole or another dimension and landed in the hill Cumorah in New York. Remember, with the Mormon God, anything is possible and I mean anything, especially when it has anything to do with any Book of Mormon evidence or archeology which is completely non-existent. These people are so desperate to believe that they aren't being lied to that I feel bad for them. I hope and pray that someday, they can know the truth. There is another thread on "angry EX-Mormon" sites that you may find interesting, that is if you have some time to blow and I mean blow.

Here was the comment where "Mormon Truth" was included:

Posted: Jan 8 2006, 02:54 PM

MemberGroup: MembersPosts: 162Member No.: 1,591Joined: 5-April 05
Can you show me one or two quotes from critcis who call members (the general church membership) of the LDS church "hate-mongers," "sociopaths," "racists," "bigots," "sickos," and "theo-nazis?"

You can find everything I've quoted and more at these websites. I'm sure you and many others here are already quite familiar with them.

Now, there was one guy who checked out the sites listed above and reported the following:

Posted: Jan 9 2006, 01:16 PM

Millennial MemberGroup: MembersPosts: 1,044Member No.: 1,070Joined: 1-November 04

Funny 1973, I didn't see anything in those sites you listed that qualified. Of course, two of the sites you listed have quite a bit of material, so I'll put the burden on you to give us a sample or two from those if you feel such examples really exist.One site you listed, was a Jewish guy whose kid wasn't successful in getting his Mormon school to sing less Christian music. When unsuccessful, the dad commented something about the Theo-Nazi Christian right in this country. Hardly a specific attack on Mormonism let alone Mormon people generally. Further, is it even reasonable to consider this guy a "critic?"

According to you:

"They attack the archeology and physical evidence of LDS scripture, even though there are still many similar unanswered questions about the Bible. They accuse the LDS Church of having contradictions in it's doctirne, even though Christian churches throughout the world have yet to come to an agreement on many Bible doctines and teachings. Critics of the church attack LDS."

A "critic" should have at least some demonstrable history of an intellectual interest in Mormonism. Another site contained attacks on BKP. Now, notice when I asked my question, I constrained the question to general church membership, because I will agree that there are often some pretty heavy insults aimed at Church leaders (or specific individuals within Mormonism). Though, this is true of any big organization that has a leader and people of notoriety. This distinction though is important, that between "the Church/Church leaders" and "church membership." A distinction you apparently acknowledges exists. Far more criticism is aimed, from critics, at "The church." I know this is true even of critics who are EVs, having probably more bouts with them as a Mormon than just about anyone on this forum. I never remember a critic I ran across accusing the Mormon population generally of being anything you listed other than POSSIBLY, "cultists," which is why I didn't add that one in my question. Typically, they liked to argue that the church is evil, and the church members are deceived victims who they should feel sorry for.

Your accusation that critics are accusing everyday Mormon people generally of "bigotry" and the rest is just false.If I'm wrong, please cite a quote from one of your websites which demonstrates otherwise.


Here is the link to this "1973 guy" and his comments and it's about half way down on the page. First I just want to say that I don't ever go around calling your average member of the Mormon Church "hate-mongers," "sociopaths," "racists," "bigots," "sickos," and "Theo-Nazis." Now do I call the Mormon Hierarchy some of those things, after reading their bigoted, horrific words and comments? You're damn right I do!!

The average members and Church Membership, aren't even aware of 90% of the racist, bigoted remarks that I've quoted at nausea here on my blog. These men, like Boyd K. Packer, Spencer W. Kimball and yes, even Gordo, are cold hearted, bigoted bastards. You dumb asses out there, that keep calling me the bigot; Do yourself and everyone else a big favor and re-direct your anger where it truly belongs and wake up!!

I honestly believe that if somebody stood at the pulpit during a General Conference and walked through all of the things that have been said by various Prophets and Apostles, that I've reported here on my blog and in my podcasts, that the Mormon Church would lose at least half their membership overnight. These evil men(Prophets and Apostles) are feared and revered and considered next to deity and most people assume that when us evil, Sons Of Perdition, Anti-Mormons, report these things, that we must making them up. Well, we aren't making them up and have no need whatsoever to do so.

You can very easily hang the Mormon Church with their own words/teachings and that's exactly what I've been doing for the last 5 months on my blog and the last month or so on my podcasts. It's basically like shooting ducks and they are all lined up in a long row!!

If it isn't gays that they are fighting against, it's interracial marriages, masturbators, fornicators, anyone that opposes the Church or it's teachings, anyone that writes about a Mother in Heaven, women that wear two earrings, non-tithe payers, people like Simon Southerton, that write about The Book of Mormon and prove the lack of any DNA evidence, anyone that isn't Mormon(Only marry within the Mormon religion), etc.

Those of us that simply write about these words, from Mormon General Authorities( that cause everyone to stand in reverence when they enter a room), are considered to be the bigots and filled with hate. Time to quit attacking us messengers that are simply reporting the HONEST to Joseph Smith truth, that these evil, hate-filled, bigoted men, are spewing from the pulpit and start attacking the actual source, the real source.

People that attack those of us that report these words and actual things that have been said are either complete dumb asses, in denial, or in agreement and just as evil as the men like Boyd K. Packer, Spencer W. Kimball, Brigham Young, Gordon B. Hinckley, etc. Get a damn life people and shake out your freaking cobwebs and repent of your evilness. Do a little homework, verify my links and sources and you'll soon find out that it's all true and then you'll need to decide if you agree with the words or not. Who exactly is the bigot?

If you don't agree with their words, after studying them, then the Mormon Church can't be true and you need to reconsider your religion and what and who you believe in. If, after studying their words and you find yourself in agreement with them, then you my friend, are a big-time BIGOT and you need some professional help to overcome your problem.

quoting the Prophet/President Ezra Taft Benson, who was Of the Quorum of the Twelve at this time and the future Prophet:

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)

1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

First I want to say, MORMONS, YOU HAVE A BIG PROBLEM!!

Now, for those that think that I'm the bigot, the racist, the man filled with hate, AKA Hate-Monger, Nazi, sicko, etc, let me share once again, some of the greatest highlights of Mormon Prophets and Apostles, past and present, spewing to the world, their intense intolerance and hate toward those that have different sexual preferences or different skin colors.

Then after reading these quotes, tell me that I or anyone else that condemns these evil remarks, is actually the racist. If you really feel that way, that you are a lost cause for the moment and on the evil side, which is the Mormon Prophets and Apostles. They are the ones that spread hate and intolerance. It couldn't be any clearer than it is and I just want to help you to see it.

Oh yeah, as I always say, all the time, keep in mind that every remark or quote that I'm about to share, has never been repudiated or apologized for. Everything that I'm going to post here, still stands as official Mormon belief and doctrine, not just opinion. These remarks are still on their websites, sold in Jesus' bookstore(Deseret Book) and sometimes still taught in lesson manuals. Even if it was just opinions, you would think that that those evil bastards in Salt Lake, lounging around in their $2,000 suits, could at least say they are sorry. Then again, if it ain't broke, why fix it right?

As long as people are stupid or naive enough(through blind obedience) to believe in them, worship them and pay their tithing to them, who really gives a shit, right? Yeah, I'm the evil one, stealing from the poor while condemning blacks and homosexuals, interracial marriages, while holding their Eternal life with their Family over their heads like a sword......give me a damn break!!

Here are some great quotes, with official links, for those that think I'm the bigot, lying or making it all up. These statements are incontrovertible in proving that they are the bigots/racists and the true sociopaths and hatemongers.

My comments are in parenthesis:

To Young Men Only by Boyd K. Packer General Conference Priesthood Session, October 2, 1976

(AKA-The Little Factory talk-little boys shouldn't fondle their little factory!!)

Now a warning! I am hesitant to even mention it, for it is not pleasant. It must be labeled as major transgression. But I will speak plainly. There are some circumstances in which young men may be tempted to handle one another, to have contact with one another physically in unusual ways. Latter-day Saint young men are not to do this.

Sometimes this begins in a moment of idle foolishness, when boys are just playing around. But it is not foolishness. It is remarkably dangerous. Such practices, however tempting, are perversion. When a young man is finding his way into manhood, such experiences can misdirect his normal desires and pervert him not only physically but emotionally and spiritually as well.

It was intended that we use this power only with our partner in marriage. I repeat, very plainly, physical mischief with another man is forbidden. It is forbidden by the Lord.

There are some men who entice young men to join them in these immoral acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.

While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said he had something to confess. I was very worried because he just could not get himself to tell me what he had done.

After patient encouragement he finally blurted out, "I hit my companion."

"Oh, is that all," I said in great relief.

"But I floored him," he said.

After learning a little more, my response was "Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way"

I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself.

(Are you serious? So Boyd K. Packer recommends physical violence and hitting someone that is homosexual, flooring them, in order to "protect yourself." Can there be any other understanding? This whole subject is speaking of homosexuals, so we can understand nothing else, right? He doesn't "recommend it" but he's not "omitting it." He actually thanks the missionary for hitting the other homosexual missionary and then says, "Somebody had to do it and it wouldn't be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way." Can you guys believe this? Is this not shocking beyond belief?

This is stunning.....but remember, I'm the bigot, while Boyd K. Packer advocates physical violence toward gays. And he's 2nd in line behind Thomas Monson to be the next Mormon Prophet? Gee, I wonder why this talk has been erased from the Mormon Church archives? This evil man is one of the greatest Mormon bigots that has ever lived, someone the TBMS can certainly be proud of, right?

There is a falsehood that some are born with an attraction to their own kind, with nothing they can do about it. They are just "that way" and can only yield to those desires. That is a malicious and destructive lie. While it is a convincing idea to some, it is of the devil. No one is locked into that kind of life. From our premortal life we were directed into a physical body. There is no mismatching of bodies and spirits. Boys are to become men --masculine, manly men --ultimately to become husbands and fathers. No one is predestined to a perverted use of these powers.

(Oh, is that right Mr. Bigot KKK Packer? Are you a manly man Mr. Packer? I guess it's hard to explain then, how God can send some of his children to earth with both penis' and vaginas, isn't it? Were those people, hermaphrodites, sent to earth to me manly men or feminine women? Oh, but God would never allow that, or do anything like that, would he? So, when did you decide Mr. KKK, that you were heterosexual? Was it when you first saw a pretty girl and your little factory kicked on and gave you a hard on, a woody? You are a sick man Mr. KKK and don't have the first clue about anything.)

Even those who have been drawn into wicked practices and are bound by almost unyielding habits can escape. If one of you seems trapped in that, escape. Go to your father or bishop, please. Your parents, your bishop, the servants of the Lord, the angels of heaven and the Lord himself will help redeem your from it.

Young Latter-day Saint men, do not tamper with these powers, neither with yourself alone nor with one of your own kind. Never let anyone handle you or touch those very personal parts of your body which are an essential link in the ongoing of creation.

Many on the world would, I'm sure, be amused by this counsel. Let them be amused. They live by another standard, a lower one. We live by the Lord's standard and continue to teach it.

(I'm not amused you bigot, rather, I'm disgusted by this counsel and your advocacy of violence and intolerance toward homosexuals. You are a preacher of hate and a disgusting, vile human being. May you rot in the hell that you preach of.)

While we are on the vomit inducing topic of Boyd K. Packer, let me share a few more gems from this very evil, 2nd in line for Prophet-hood, bigoted man. This talk was then made into a pamphlet to help homosexuals learn how to become straight and become heterosexual, like God supposedly made them in the first place:

To The One

This was originally an address given to the Twelve Stake Fireside at Brigham Young University on March 5, 1978.

Here are some excerpts, but I encourage everyone to go and read this awful, bigoted, anti-homosexual talk to understand it in it's fullness:

"To introduce it I must use a word. I will use it only one time only. Please notice that I use it as an adjective, not as a noun; I reject it as a noun. I speak to those few, those very few, who may be subject to homosexual temptation. I repeat, I accept that word as an adjective to describe a temporary condition. I reject it as a noun naming a a permanent one."

(So, just to be 100% clear here, Packer is referring to homosexuality as a "temporary condition", not a permanent condition." So, he is saying that it can be cured. It is an adjective, something that someone does and is not something that they are. Well, we've already shown that he advocates physical violence by punching homosexuals, in order to "protect yourself" from gay people.)

"First: Is sexual perversion wrong? The answer: It is not all right. It is wrong! It is not desirable; it is unnatural; it is abnormal; it is an affliction. When practiced, it is immoral. It is a transgression."

(Of course, here, Packer, is referring to homosexuality as the sexual perversion that is "not desirable, unnatural, abnormal, immoral, an affliction and a transgression.")

"There is a reason why we in the Church do not talk more openly about this subject. Some matters are best handled very privately. With many things, it is easy-very easy-to cause the very things we are trying to avoid."

(So, here, he is saying that if we talk too much about homosexuality, it will make heterosexuals want to become homosexual, right? Okay, so maybe Boyd K. Packer is a homosexual and afraid that if he uses the word too much or talks too much about it, he might want to act out on his fantasies. Ya think?)

"Is this tendency impossible to change? Is it preset at the time of birth and locked in? Do you just have to live with it?"

"Some so-called experts, and many of those who have yielded to the practice, teach that it is congenital and incurable and that one just has to learn to live with it."

"Much of the so-called scientific literature concludes that there really is not much that can be done about it." I reject that conclusion out of hand."

(So, isn't it amazing that he knows more than the "so-called experts" and the "so-called scientific literature." I'm just curious, what exactly are his qualifications? What personal studies has he done on homosexuality and what qualified him to do those studies? Well, he hasn't done any studies and has no qualifications, that's the amazing part about all of this. He has such strong opinions, without one shred of authority to have them!! What an arrogant ass!!)

"If a condition that draws both men and women into one of the ugliest and most debased of all physical performances is set and cannot be overcome, it would be a glaring exception to all moral law. If that we so (and it is not), it would stand out as a strange and peculiar exception, one that can be applied to none other of the kinds of mischief that relate to the power of procreation. Such a thing is totally inconsistent."

(So, now, he is calling homosexuality, one of the ugliest and most debased of all physical performances. How does this make a struggling, Mormon homosexual feel? There is so much more to this pathetic talk, but let me end with these statements from this talk that sum up what he has concluded is most likely the cause of homosexuality, even in the case where a 12-13 year old boy that can't understand his attraction to other boys and goes in all sincerity, to his Parents to confide in them.)

"To Latter-day Saints the answer ought to be obvious. We turn to the spiritual nature." (AKA burning bosom again)

"The cause of this disorder has remained hidden for so long because we have been looking for it in the wrong place. When the cause is discovered, it may be nothing so mysterious after all. It may be hidden because it is so obvious."

(So, isn't he once again admitting that he has no clue what the cause of solution is? Well, now he's gonna give us his words of wisdom as to the possibilities.)"

"I present a possibility. And I remind you-I am talking to the one. You, the ninety and nine, are merely listening in. I am conscious that when I mention it, the first reaction may be resistance, resentment, even hostility-that is to be expected-but hear me out!"

"Have you explored the possibility that the cause, when found, will turn out to be a very typical form of selfishness-selfishness in a very subtle form?"

"Anyway guys, if you want to read the whole thing, go read it, please!! The bigotry that oozes from this talk is permeable and disgusting. He isn't trying to help anybody and in reality, admits several times, that he nor anybody, really knows why people are homosexual. Hinckley also admitted that as I'll quote below. Boyd K. Packer is all about condemning homosexuals and does a very fine job of it in this talk."

Now, here was another classic talk by Packer:

Follow the Rule

Boyd K. Packer was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when this devotional address was given at Brigham Young University on 14 January 1977.

.....I have a lingering, sensitive, prophetic idea that as you obediently follow the prophet you will live to know a stability and a fullness and a plenty in your own lands that by comparison now seem deprived economically. You will have far more of what matters most than you would have if you should go elsewhere seeking your fortune. When you come to find that which matters most, you will always find in the long run that to be the rule and not the exception is to see the fullness of life. Should there be exceptions, the Lord will designate those in an unmistakable way.

Now, one other subject. It's been the policy of the Church--and it's been spoken on many occasions--
that as the gathering of Israel is in Mexico for the Mexicans, in Tonga for the Tongans, in China for the Chinese, and so on, so has been our counsel as it relates to marriage.

We've always counseled in the Church for our Mexican members to marry Mexicans, our Japanese members to marry Japanese, our Caucasians to marry Caucasians, our Polynesian members to marry Polynesians.
The counsel has been wise. You may say again, "Well, I know of exceptions." I do, too, and they've been very successful marriages. I know some of them. You might even say, "I can show you local Church leaders or perhaps even general leaders who have married out of their race." I say, "Yes--exceptions." Then I would remind you of that Relief Society woman's near-scriptural statement, "We'd like to follow the rule first, and then we'll take care of the exceptions."

Someone else replied, "My boy, before you think that applies to you, you ought to be very sure you have the inspiration and power that is present in the beginnings of an apostle."

"You may not be the exception. We counsel in the Church, for instance, that we ought to be old enough before we marry and we ought to know one another before we're married. Our courtships ought to be adequate. You may pick out a couple--he was 18 and she was 17 when they married--and see how happy and successful they've been. Yes, an exception! For every exception we can show you tens and hundreds, and I suppose thousands, who were not happy. Plan, young people, to marry into your own race. This counsel is good, and I hope our branch presidents are listening and paying attention. The counsel is good."

".....I sat there thinking, "The gospel's true and what else matters? That prophetic declaration will see us safely through this, and if it doesn't, we're in the hands of the Lord now."

Things are not always easy when we receive counsel, whether the counsel is to return to serve among our own people or whether it is counsel to marry among our own culture and racial backgrounds. Always there is a decision. Always we can say, "We're an exception." But I say, in the words of that Relief Society sister, "As for me, I'm going to follow the rule first; and then, should there be an exception, perhaps that will be made known."

(So, to summarize, Boyd K. Packer, along with many other Prophets and Apostles have counseled and "official Church policy" states that interracial marriage is wrong. However, if the Church leaders do it, including Bishops, Stake Presidents and even General Authorities, like Prophets, Apostles and Seventies, it is okay, because they are the "EXCEPTION" to the rule. Now, the most amazing part is where he states that "we may not have the 'inspiration and power' that is present in the 'beginnings of an Apostle.'"

WOW!! So a future Apostle, even though not called as one, always has that special inspiration and power that we don't, from conception, apparently? If only we could be like them, right? In other words, people like Packer, Hinckley and all the rest of these goons/cult leaders, have the God given right, from before this life, to ALWAYS be the exception to the rule. Us normal folks, do not!!

Damn, if only I had been chosen in the pre-existence to be a Mormon Apostle!! It would be so cool to have that God given ability to break any rule I want while advising others not to do it and making a fortune, all in the name of the Mormon God.)

Now, here are some great statements by Hinckley on Gays and how he really feels about them. These comments go great with Packers comments, kind of like "Another testament of Mormon Bigotry", like a companion to Packers comments. In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses, right? This was Hinckley's interview with the San Francisco Chronicle:

Q: The church has issued a statement concerning the campaign for legal recognition of same-sex marriages in Hawaii and other states. And the church has asked its members to write to their legislatures opposing this.

A: Yes. We've been involved in some action against same-sex marriages. Now, we have gays in the church. Good people. We take no action against such people -- provided they don't become involved in transgression, sexual transgression. If they do, we do with them exactly what we'd do with heterosexuals who transgress.

We have a very strong moral teaching concerning abstinence before marriage and total fidelity following marriage. And, regardless of whether they're heterosexuals or otherwise, if they step over that line there are certain sanctions, certain penalties that are imposed.

Q: What about gay people who feel God made them that way? You're saying they must lead a celibate life?

A: Well, yes, I suppose, essentially. A lot of people live a celibate life. Lots of them.
A third of the people in the United States are now single. Many of them live a celibate life.

Q: But what homosexuals say is they don't have the opportunity to marry and be monogamous and faithful.

A: We believe that marriage, of a man and a woman, is that which is ordained of God for the procreation of children. That's a very sacred thing and is ordained of God and ought to be observed.

Link to San Francisco Chronicle Interview:

This one was in December of 2004 on Larry King Live:

King: But as the morales have changed - for example, I know that the Church is opposed to gay marriage.


KING: Do you have an alternative? Do you like the idea of civil unions?

HINCKLEY: Well, we're not anti-gay. We are pro-family. Let me put it that way.

And we love these people and try to work with them and help them. We know they have a problem. We want to help them solve that problem.

KING: A problem they caused, or they were born with?

HINCKLEY: I don't know. I'm not an expert on these things. I don't pretend to be an expert on these things. The fact is, they have a problem.
KING: Do you favor some sort of state union?

HINCKLEY: Well, we want to be very careful about that, because that - whatever may lead to gay marriage, we're not in favor of.

We - many people don't get married. Goodness sakes alive. You know that.

Many people who have to discipline themselves. If they transgress, they become subject to the discipline of the Church. But we try in every way that we know how to help them, to assist them, to bless their lives.

KING: It's hard to be a Mormon, isn't it?

HINCKLEY: No. It's wonderful.

KING: Not hard.

HINCKLEY: No, no. It's just wonderful. It's demanding. Great expectations. I should say so. But it's wonderful.

Here's the link:

Now, let briefly move on to Spencer W. Kimball, the former Prophet and Apostle, regarding homosexuals and what can sometimes cause it:

Sometimes masturbation is the introduction to the more serious sins of exhibitionism and the gross sin of homosexuality. We would avoid mentioning these unholy terms and these reprehensible practices were it not for the fact that we have a responsibility to the youth of Zion that they be not deceived by those who would call bad good and black white.

Kimball regarding interracial marriages:

"The interrace marriage problem is not one of inferiority or superiority. It may be that your son is better educated and may be superior in his culture, and yet it may be on the other hand that she is superior to him. It is a matter of backgrounds. The difficulties and hazards of marriage are greatly increased where backgrounds are different. For a wealthy person to marry a pauper promises difficulties. For an ignoramus to marry one with a doctor's degree promises difficulties, heartaches, misunderstandings, and broken marriages.

When one considers marriage, it should be an unselfish thing, but there is not much selflessness when two people of different races plan marriage. They must be thinking selfishly of themselves. They certainly are not considering the problems that will beset each other and that will beset their children.

If your son thinks he loves this girl, he would not want to inflict upon her loneliness and unhappiness; and if he thinks that his affection for her will solve all her problems, he should do some more mature thinking.

We are unanimous, all of the Brethren, in feeling and recommending that Indians marry Indians, and Mexicans marry Mexicans; the Chinese marry Chinese and the Japanese marry Japanese; that the Caucasians marry the Caucasians, and the Arabs marry Arabs."

(0/0/59) (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p.303)

Now, I want to list several quotes from Mormon Prophets and Apostles, regarding their blatant bigotry and racism. A big thanks goes out to "Real Mormon History" for their help in compiling these quotes

Mormon Apostle Pratt, on the superiority of the Mormons over "Fallen Nations", including Africans:

“...among the Saints is the most likely place for these spirits to take their tabernacles, through a just and righteous parentage. They are sent to THAT PEOPLE THAT ARE THE MOST RIGHTEOUS OF ANY OTHER PEOPLE UPON THE EARTH;...THIS IS THE REASON THE LORD IS SENDING THEM HERE,... The Lord has not kept them in store for five or six thousand years past, and kept them waiting for their bodies all this time to send them among the Hottentots, the AFRICAN NEGROES, the idolatrous Hindoos, or any other of the fallen nations that dwell upon the face of the earth. They are not kept in reserve in order to come forth to receive such a DEGRADED PARENTAGE upon the earth;...” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, p. 63)

Blacks are Inferior

Church leader Bruce R. McConkie, on the denial of equality for Africans:

“NEGROES IN THIS LIFE ARE DENIED THE PRIESTHOOD; under NO circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation IS NOT CARRIED AFFIRMATIVELY TO THEM... “NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES WHERE THE RECEIPT OF CERTAIN SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS ARE CONCERNED...” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, p. 477)

Future President of the Mormon church, Joseph Fielding Smith wrote:

"Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness HE BECAME THE FATHER OF AN INFERIOR RACE.”(The Way to Perfection, page 101)

More from Joseph Fielding Smith:

“There is a reason why one man is BORN BLACK and with OTHER DISADVANTAGES, while another is BORN WHITE with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient; more or less, to the laws that were given us there.”(Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, page 61)

The Mark of Cain

The Mormon prophet Brigham Young on the appearance of Africans:

“Cain slew his brother....and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the FLAT NOSE AND BLACK SKIN...”(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, pages 290-291)

Besides a black skin, Africans have a black heart, according to Mormon publication Times and Seasons, edited by future prophet John Taylor:

“The descendants of Ham, besides A BLACK SKIN which has ever been a curse that has followed an apostate of the holy priesthood, as well as a BLACK HEART, have been servants to both Shem and Japheth, and the ABOLITIONISTS ARE TRYING TO MAKE VOID THE CURSE OF GOD, BUT IT WILL REQUIRE MORE POWER THAN MAN POSSESSES TO COUNTERACT THE DECREES OF ETERNAL WISDOM.” (Times and Seasons, Vol. 6, page 857)

Blacks Have Dishonorable Bodies

Apostle Orson Pratt taught that some people don't receive an "honourable body" because they sided with the Devil in a previous life:

“At the time the devil was cast out of heaven, there were some spirits that did not know who had authority, whether God or the devil. They consequently did NOT TAKE A VERY ACTIVE PART ON EITHER SIDE, BUT RATHER THOUGHT THE DEVIL HAD BEEN ABUSED, AND CONSIDERED HE HAD RATHER THE BEST CLAIM TO THE GOVERNMENT. These spirits were not considered bad enough to be cast down to hell, and never have bodies; neither were they CONSIDERED WORTHY OF AN HONOURABLE BODY on this earth: but it came to pass that Ham, the son of Noah, saw the nakedness of his father while he lay drunk in his tent, and he with 'wicked joy,' ran like Rigdon, and made the wonderful disclosure to his brethren; while Shem and Japheth took a garment, with pity and compassion, laid it upon their shoulders—went backwards and covered their father,... The conduct of the former BROUGHT THE CURSE OF SLAVERY upon him, while that of the latter secured blessings, jurisdiction, power and dominion....Canaan, the son of Ham, received the curse; for Noah wished to place the curse as remote from himself as possible. He therefore placed it upon his grandson instead of his son. Now, it would seem cruel to force PURE celestial spirits into the world through the lineage of Canaan that had been cursed. This would be ill appropriate, putting the PRECIOUS and VILE together. But those spirits in heaven that rather LENT AN INFLUENCE to the DEVIL, thinking he had a little the best right to govern, but did not take a very active part any way were required to come into the world and take bodies information concerning the doctrine of pre-existence: “Is there reason then why the type of birth we receive in this life is not in the ACCURSED lineage of Canaan; and hence the NEGRO or African race.” (Speech of Elder Orson Hyde, delivered before the High Priests' Quorum, in Nauvoo. April 27th, 1845, printed in Liverpool, page 30)

God Darkens Sinners

According to the Book of Mormon, the church's sacred scripture, God darkens people who sin. This is the Mormon church's explanation for the color of the American Indians:

“...wherefore, as they were white, and exceeding fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a SKIN OF BLACKNESS to come upon them.” (Book of Mormon, page 61, 2 Nephi 5, verse 21)

“And the skins of the Lamanites were DARK, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which WAS A CURSE upon them because of their transgression...” (Book of Mormon, page 201, Alma 3, verse 6)

“...for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a DARK, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us,...” (Book of Mormon, page 468, Mormon 5, verse 15)

The Book of Mormon, however, predicts that the Indians will repent of their sins and become white:

“...and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a WHITE AND DELIGHTSOME PEOPLE.” (Book of Mormon, page 102, 2 Nephi 30, verse 6. (The word "WHITE" was changed to "PURE" in later editions of the Book of Mormon))

Scrubbing the Mark

Dark skin is God's mark and even with help from his white friends, an African can't scrub it off:

“For instance, the descendants of Cain cannot cast off their SKIN OF BLACKNESS, at once, and immediately, although every soul of them should repent,...Cain and his posterity must wear the mark which God put upon them; and his white friends may WASH THE RACE OF CAIN WITH FULLER'S SOAP EVERY DAY, THEY CANNOT WASH AWAY GOD'S MARK;...” (Mormon publication, Millennial Star, Vol. 14, page 418)

People of Color Consort with the Devil

Also from McConkie: Cain was an associate of Lucifer and is the Father of the Negroes.

“Though he was a rebel and AN ASSOCIATE OF LUCIFER IN PRE-EXISTENCE, and though he was a liar from the beginning whose name was Perdition, CAIN MANAGED TO ATTAIN THE PRIVILEGE OF MORTAL BIRTH. Under Adam's tutelage, he began in this life to serve God....he came out in open rebellion, fought God, worshiped Lucifer, and slew Abel.... “As a result of his rebellion, CAIN WAS CURSED WITH A DARK SKIN; he became the father of the Negroes, and those spirits who ARE NOT WORTHY to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to RULE over SATAN.”(Mormon Doctrine, p. 102)

According to the 3rd president of the Mormon church, John Taylor, Cain's curse of a dark skin marks the representatives of the Devil:

“And after the flood we are told that the CURSE that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through HAM'S WIFE, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? because it was necessary that the DEVIL SHOULD HAVE A REPRESENTATION upon the earth as well as God;...” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 22, page 304)

Inter-racial Relationships

Brigham Young: Death to inter-racial couples:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the AFRICAN RACE? If the WHITE man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the PENALTY, under the LAW OF GOD, IS DEATH ON THE SPOT. THIS WILL ALWAYS BE SO.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 110)

Slavery - A Divine Institution

A letter written by Joseph Smith, the first Mormon prophet, to the Messenger and Advocate, an early Mormon newspaper, deriding those who would end slavery. Later, this letter was printed in "History of the Church":

“DEAR SIR: —This place (Kirtland) having recently been visited by a gentleman who advocated the principles or doctrines of those who are called ABOLITIONISTS, and his presence having created an interest in that subject, if you deem the following reflections of any service, or think they will have a tendency to correct the opinions of the Southern public, are at liberty to give them publicity... I FEAR that the sound might go out, that 'an Abolitionist' had held forth several times to this community,...all, except a very few, attended to their own vocations, and left the gentleman to hold forth his own arguments to nearly naked walls. I am aware that many, who PROFESS to preach the Gospel, complain against their brethren of the same faith, who reside in the South, and are ready to withdraw the hand of fellowship, because they will not renounce the principle of slavery, and raise their voice against every thing of the kind. This must be a tender point, and one which should call forth the candid reflections of all men, and more especially before they advance in an opposition calculated to lay waste the fair states of the South, and let loose upon the world a community of people, who might, peradventure, OVERRUN OUR COUNTRY, AND VIOLATE THE MOST SACRED PRINCIPLES OF HUMAN SOCIETY, CHASTITY AND VIRTUE.... I do not believe that the people of the North have any more right to say that the South shall not hold slaves, than the South have to say the North shall. “How any community can ever be excited with the CHATTER of such persons, boys and others, who are too indolent to obtain their living by honest industry, and are incapable of pursuing any occupation of a professional nature, is unaccountable to me; and when I see persons in the free states, signing documents against slavery, it is no less, in my mind, than an army of influence, and a DECLARATION OF HOSTILITIES, against the people of the South. What course can sooner divide our union? “After having expressed myself so freely upon this subject, I do not doubt, but those who have been forward in raising their voices against the South, will cry out against me as being uncharitable, unfeeling, unkind, and wholly unacquainted with the Gospel of Christ....the first mention we have of SLAVERY is found in the Holy Bible,... And so far from that prediction being averse to the mind of God, it remains as a lasting monument of the DECREE OF JEHOVAH, to the shame and confusion of all who HAVE CRIED OUT against the South, in consequence of their holding the sons of Ham in SERVITUDE.... I can say, the CURSE IS NOT YET TAKEN OFF FROM THE SONS OF CANAAN, neither will be until it is affected by as great a power as caused it to come; and the people who INTERFERE THE LEAST WITH THE PURPOSES OF GOD in this matter, will come under the LEAST CONDEMNATION BEFORE HIM; and those who are determined to pursue a course, which shows an opposition, and a feverish restlessness against the DECREES OF THE LORD, will learn, when perhaps it is too late for their own good, that God can do his own work, without the aid of those who are not dictated by His counsel.” (History of the Church, by Joseph Smith, Vol. 2, pages 436-438)

More from the Mormon newspaper Messenger and Advocate:

“Where can be the common sense of any wishing to see the slaves of the south set at liberty,... Such a thing could not take place without corrupting all civil and wholesome society, of both the north and the south! Let the BLACKS of the south be free, and our community is overrun with paupers, and a reckless mass of human beings, uncultivated, untaught and unaccustomed to provide for themselves the necessaries of life— endangering the chastity of every female who might by chance be found in our streets—our prisons filled with convicts, and the HANG-MAN WEARIED with executing the functions of his office! This must unavoidably be the case, every rational man must admit, who has ever traveled in the slave states, or we must open our houses unfold our arms, and bid these DEGRADED AND DEGRADING sons of Canaan, a hear[t]y welcome and a free admittance to all we possess! A society of this nature, to us, is so intolerably DEGRADING, that the bare reflection causes our feelings to recoil, and our hearts to revolt....the project of EMANSIPATION IS DESTRUCTIVE TO OUR GOVERNMENT, and the notion of amalgamation is devilish!— And insensible to feeling must be the heart, and low indeed must be the mind, that would consent for a moment, to see his fair daughter, his sister, or perhaps, his bosom companion, in the embrace of a NEGRO!...(Messenger and Advocate, Vol. 2, pp. 299-301)

Brigham Young states that slavery is a divine institution:

“Ham will continue to be servant of servants, as the Lord decreed, until the curse is removed. WILL THE PRESENT STRUGGLE FREE THE SLAVE? NO; but they are now wasting away the black race by thousands.... “Treat the slaves kindly and let them live, for HAM MUST BE THE SERVANT OF SERVANTS UNTIL THE CURSE IS REMOVED. Can you destroy the decrees of the Almighty? YOU CANNOT. Yet our Christian brethren think that they are going to overthrow the sentence of the Almighty upon the seed of Ham. THEY CANNOT DO THAT, though they may kill them by thousands and tens of thousands.” (Millennial Star, Vol. 25, page 787; also published in Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 250)

Abolitionists are Nigger Stealers

John Taylor, who became the third President of the Mormon Church, had this to say concerning the abolitionist Horace Greeley after Mr. Greeley visited Utah:

“... I WOULD NOT TALK TO HIM: I FELT MYSELF SUPERIOR TO SUCH A MEAN CONTEMPTIBLE CUR. I knew he was not after truth, but falsehood. “This Greeley is one of their popular characters in the East, and one that supports the stealing of NIGGERS and the underground railroad....he is one of the prominent newspaper editors in the Eastern country, and he is a POOR, MISERABLE CURSE.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, page 119)

Denial of Equality

As part of a church instructional manual, Mormon church Historian B.H. Roberts, quoted from William B. Smith:

“Perhaps the most convincing book in JUSTIFICATION of the south in DENYING TO THE NEGRO RACE SOCIAL EQUALITY with the white race is the one written by William Benjamin Smith, entitled The Color Line, A Brief in Behalf of the Unborn, from which the following is a quotation:“'Here, then, is laid bare the news of the whole matter: Is the south JUSTIFIED in this ABSOLUTE DENIAL OF SOCIAL EQUALITY to the NEGRO, no matter what his (personal) virtues or abilities or accomplishments? “'We affirm, then that the south is ENTIRELY RIGHT in thus keeping open at all times, at all hazards, and at all sacrifices an IMPASSIBLE SOCIAL CHASM BETWEEN BLACK AND WHITE. This she must do in behalf of her blood, her essence, of the stock of her Caucasian race.... The moment the bar of ABSOLUTE SEPERATION is thrown down in the south, that moment the bloom of her spirit is BLIGHTED FOREVER,... That the negro is MARKEDLY INFERIOR to the Caucasian is proved both craniologically and by six thousand years of planet-wide experimentation; and that the commingling of INFERIOR with SUPERIOR must lower the higher is just as certain as that the half-sum of two and six is only four.' (The Color Line, pp. 7-12)” (First Year Book in the Seventy's Course in Theology, pages 231-233)

The Ideals of Segregation

Church leader Bruce R. McConkie claims that a human caste system is part of the gospel:

“Certainly the caste systems in communist countries and in India, for instance, are man made and are not based on true principles. “However, in a broad sense, CASTE SYSTEMS have their ROOT and ORIGIN in the GOSPEL itself, and when they operate according to the DIVINE DECREE, the resultant restrictions and SEGREGATION ARE RIGHT AND PROPER AND HAVE THE APPROVAL OF THE LORD. To illustrate: Cain, Ham, and the whole negro race HAVE BEEN CURSED WITH A BLACK SKIN, the mark of Cain, so they can be identified as a CASTE APART, a people with whom the other descendants of Adam should not intermarry.”(Mormon Doctrine, 1958, pp. 107-108)

The Secret Agenda of Blacks

The Mormon church owned Deseret News printed apostle and future prophet Ezra Taft Benson's words concerning civil rights:

“LOGAN, UTAH—Former agriculture secretary Ezra Taft Benson charged Friday night that the CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT in the South had been 'FOMENTED ALMOST ENTIRELY BY THE COMMUNISTS.' “Elder Benson, a member of the Council of the Twelve of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said in a speech at a public meeting here that the WHOLE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT WAS 'PHONY.'...“'The whole slogan of 'civil right' as used to make trouble in the South today, is an exact parallel to the slogan of agrarian reform' which they used in China,' he added....“'The pending 'civil rights' legislation is, I am convinced, about 10 per cent civil rights and 90 per cent a further extension of socialistic federal controls,' Elder Benson said, 'It is part of the PATTERN FOR THE COMMUNIST TAKE-OVER OF AMERICA.'“ (Deseret News, December 14, 1963)

At the 135th annual conference of the Mormon church, apostle Benson continued his diatribe:


Mark E. Petersen's Racist Talk at BYU

The Mormon apostle Mark E. Petersen gave a talk at Brigham Young University in 1954 concerning race relations. Here are select parts of that talk:

“Is there reason then why the type of birth we receive in this life is not a reflection of our WORTHINESS OR LACK OF IT in the pre-existent life?...can we account in any other of way for the birth of some of the children of God in darkest AFRICA, or in flood-ridden CHINA, or among the starving hordes of INDIA, while some of the rest of us are born here in the United States? We cannot escape the conclusion that because of performance in our pre-existence some of us are born as Chinese, some as Japanese, some as Indians, some as Negroes, some as Americans, some as Latter-day Saints. THESE ARE REWARDS AND PUNISHMENTS, fully in harmony with His established policy in dealing with SINNERS AND SAINTS, rewarding all according to their deeds....

Using the Chinese as an example:

"Let us consider the great mercy of God for a moment. A Chinese, born in China with A DARK SKIN, and with all the handicaps of that race seems to have little opportunity. But think of the mercy of God to Chinese people who are willing to accept the gospel. IN SPITE OF WHATEVER THEY MIGHT HAVE DONE IN THE PRE-EXISTENCE TO JUSTIFY BEING BORN OVER THERE AS CHINAMEN, if they now, in this life, accept the gospel and live it the rest of their lives they can have the Priesthood, go to the temple and receive endowments and sealings, and that means they can have exaltation. Isn't the mercy of God marvelous?

Concerning Africans:

“Think of the Negro, CURSED AS TO THE PRIESTHOOD.... This negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a BLACK SKIN, and possibly being born in darkest Africa—if that negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. IN SPITE OF ALL HE DID IN THE PRE-EXISTENT LIFE, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there AS A SERVANT, but he will get celestial glory.”

On civil rights. What people of African decent want:

“The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent, and then, of course, they have been persuaded by some of the arguments that have been put forth.... We who teach in the Church certainly must have our feet on the ground and not be led astray by the philosophies of men on this subject... “I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the negro is after. He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage. That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feeling to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace.'...

On segregation. A Godly principle:

“Now let's talk SEGREGATION again for a few moments. Was segregation a wrong principle? When the Lord chose the nations to which the spirits were to come, determining that some would be Japanese and some would be Chinese and some Negroes and some Americans, He engaged in an act of SEGREGATION.... When he told Enoch not to preach the gospel to the descendants of Cain who were BLACK, the Lord engaged in SEGREGATION. When He CURSED the descendants of Cain as to the Priesthood, He engaged in SEGREGATION.... “Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa? Was it some man, or was it God? And when He placed them there, He SEGREGATED them....The Lord segregated the people both as to blood and place of residence. At least in the cases of the Lamanites and the Negroes we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that He placed a dark skin upon them as a curse—as a punishment and as a sign to all others. He forbade intermarriage with them under threat of extension of the curse. (2 Nephi 5:21) And He certainly SEGREGATED the descendants of Cain when He cursed the Negro as to the Priesthood, and drew an absolute line. You may even say He dropped an Iron curtain there....

Mr. Petersen would that every person of African decent drive a Cadillac:

“Now we are generous with the negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. BUT LET THEM ENJOY THESE THINGS AMONG THEMSELVES, I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation? It reminds me of the scripture on marriage, 'what God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.' Only here we have the reverse of the thing— WHAT GOD HATH SEPARATED, LET NOT MAN BRING TOGETHER AGAIN.”(Race Problems as They Affect the Church, an address by Apostle Mark E. Petersen, delivered at the Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College Level, Brigham Young University, August 27,1954)

Surprise! Joseph Smith Ordained a Black Man to be a Seventy

Despite all the rhetoric, Andrew Jenson, who was the Assistant Church Historian, recorded that a man of African decent was indeed ordained to the Mormon priesthood in the early days of the church:

“Abel, Elijah, the ONLY COLORED MAN WHO IS KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN ORDAINED TO THE PRIESTHOOD, ...he was ordained an ELDER March 3, 1836, and a SEVENTY April 4, 1841, AN EXCEPTION HAVING BEEN MADE IN HIS CASE WITH REGARD TO THE GENERAL RULE OF THE CHURCH IN RELATION TO COLORED PEOPLE.... In Nauvoo HE WAS INTIMATELY ACQUAINTED WITH THE PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH... In 1883, as a MEMBER of the Third Quorum of SEVENTY, he left Salt Lake City on a MISSION to Canada, during which he also performed missionary labors in the United States. Two weeks after his return he died, Dec. 25, 1884, of debility, consequent upon exposure while laboring in the MINISTRY in Ohio. He died in full faith of the gospel.” (L.D.S. Biographical Encyclopedia, Vol. 3, p. 577)

In 1884 the Mormon newspaper Deseret News printed Elijah Abel's obituary:

“ABEL.—In the 13th Ward, December 25th 1884, of old age and debility, consequent upon exposure while laboring IN THE MINISTRY in Ohio, Elijah Able. Deceased was born in Washington County, Maryland, July 25, 1810; joined the Church and was ordained an ELDER as appears by certificate dated March 3rd, 1836; was subsequently ordained a SEVENTY as appears by certificate dated April 4, 1841; labored successfully in Canada and also performed a MISSION to the United States, from which he returned about two weeks ago. He died in FULL FAITH of the Gospel. “Funeral at 16th Ward Assembly Rooms Saturday, Dec. 27th, at 10 a.m. Friends invited.” (Deseret News, Dec. 26, 1884)

Good to see that at least one black, inferior man, (in the Church's eyes that is), made it into the Mormon Priesthood, but only because he was best buddies with Joseph Smith. I guess God allowed Joseph Smith to make an exception to the rule.

As I pointed out above, Mormon General Authorities are always the exception to the rule, can make an exception to any rule and answer to nobody. To bad that Abel had to die while on his mission due to exposure.

It looks to me like Joseph Smith sent him out on a mission to Canada, in the middle of the winter and that was what helped lead to his death. Yeah, some friend Joseph Smith was to Abel. He probably would have lived longer and happier, if he hadn't ever found the Mormon Church and his so called friend, Joseph Smith.

Now, in conclusion, after reading all of the quotes above, you tell me everyone, even you die-hard, brain-washed, super TBMS, Who is the RACIST/BIGOT?!!

Is it me, for simply sharing the messages and words/quotes of your beloved Prophets/Apostles, or is it they, who are the real BIGOTS and RACISTS?!!

Again, please keep in mind, that none of these words have ever been apologized for or repudiated, EVER!! These words above are apparently as true today and believed by Mormon Hierarchy as they were the day that they were spoken. I'm very happy that I no longer believe in such evil men and words and that I'm not associated with a bigoted and extremely racist organization. Wake up everyone!!


Samuel the Utahnite

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At Tuesday, July 25, 2006 5:45:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

when i was 19 years old i came home from church and started reading the book of mormon on my bed....after reading for about 2-3 mins an outside spiritual power came into my room and grew in intensity until it was as a rushing wind that filled my room and me with unspeakable joy. i did not imagine this, i did not pray for this experience; it just happened. the entire experience took about 15 seconds and then the spirit slowly disapated and left my room. you can say what you will about the lds church, but i know its true because the holy ghost bore witness of it to me on that sabbath afternoon. thank you

At Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:31:00 PM, Blogger Samuel the Utahnite said...


First I want to thank you, sincerely, for sharing your experience and other true believers in Mormonism, could learn a lot from you and how you have expressed yourself.

I want you to know, and this may come as a surprise to you; but I completely respect your right to feel and believe whatever you want to and I respect you even more, for respecting my right to do the same. It's nice to feel mutual respect. I never attack the average members, like you, that truly believe and are happy, just trying to do their best; rather the Mormon Hierarchy and the Mormon leadership. The purpose of this blog and my other blogs and podcasts, is to reach those that are seeking a change or want to know the truth of Mormon History that I've discovered.

I cannot dispute your spiritual experience and I would never do that or even try any more than you can dispute what I'm feeling and have experienced over the last year. I cannot explain why you felt what you felt, but it is your personal experience and your right to interpret your experiences, in ways that make sense to you and confirm the truthfulness of the Mormon Church.

Each of us has to come to our own conclusions about whether the Mormon Church or another Church or experience, is true or not. I've also had many spiritual experiences in my 30 plus years of Mormonism, that I thought proved the Church to be true, but in the last year, I've learned to understand what I felt and why. I believe that the testimony or feelings that I had, were based on lies or half-truths, therefore not valid and it goes much deeper than that, but I won't get into every detail.

Many would say that I've let Satan influence me and lead me astray, to now discount these experiences, but for me, my decisions on what I now believe versus what I used to believe, are based on facts, reasoning, logic, intense study(thousands of hours) and reality, not some unseen, evil being that has unduly influenced me. In fact, I just find that to be absurd and on par with Snow White really eating the poison apple.

So many people feel that it is impossible to have studied and learned things about the Church, then processed them and come to the conclusion that the Church is false, without having some big sin they didn't want to confess or Satan leading you astray. Why do most Mormons believe this? Because it is what they have been taught their whole life. Why would somebody ever walk away from the "only truth?" There has to be a good reason and it can't be study, because the Church is "the only true Church on earth", so that's impossible.

I just want to say Anon, that in the year I've been writing my blog and receiving Emails and comments, you are the VERY FIRST person, that I can remember, that just came out, told me that they believed the Church was true and why, while completely respecting my freedom to feel, believe and express what I think, without ad hominems and calling me every nasty name in the book, which most of the time begin with the F word.

I want to thank you for this, as you have restored my faith, that there are reasonable true believing Mormons out there, that I can talk to, without having to get all nasty. The interesting thing is, I don't seek them out, rather they seek me out and then pepper me with insults and then wonder why I'm so angry and respond in the same manner as they addressed me. You reap what you sow and get treated, the way you treat others, it's just that simple. If you want to be respected by me and other ex or anti-Mormons, then you guys should express yourselves like this Anon poster has and look to them as your example.

Like I said, these people could learn a lot from you and the fact that even though we disagree completely and totally, about the Mormon Church, we can still respect each other, but that respect must be a two way street and mutual, not a one way street, as it normally is with these folks.

Thank you again for sharing your feelings and for taking the time to let me and others know why you believe the Church is true. I respect everyone's right to believe in the Mormon Church or any other Church and it sure is nice when someone like you, returns that same respect and allows me to also believe what I want to believe, without condemning me or all others to hell, that don't believe just as you do.

You are a true example of a good person, and it wouldn't matter what religion you are just a good human being period and what this life is supposed to be all about!! Don't ever change!!

Take care and feel free to drop me an email anytime or leave more comments. Just let me know who you are or create a name, so that I can easily identify you, okay?



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