Mormon Steven Jones, The BYU Professor and 911 Conspiracy Theorist, Finally Quits, While On Paid Leave And Under Investigation For His Theories.
The BYU Professor Steven Jones, that personally believes that President Bush orchestrated, planned and carried out the 911 tragedy, by planting bombs in the towers and firing a missile at the Pentagon, finally quit BYU.(Praise the Mormon God!!)
He was put on paid leave and was under investigation by Jesus Christ's employees, for about the last month or so.(what was so damn hard to investigate) Is the Holy of Holies out of order or being remodeled? Did Jesus get stuck in a wormhole on his way to see Hinckley?
Maybe Jesus himself is investigating 911, as we speak, to see what happened, before giving his final report to Gordon B. Hinckley?
Anyway, He finally did the right thing and quit!! He says that he's going to use his time to study his conspiracy theories more. Maybe he can check out the "Bigfoot is Cain story", which Spencer W. Kimball related in his vile, destructive book, "The Miracle Of Forgiveness."
Now that he has more time on his hands, I look forward to what conspiracy he finds next as it should be a real adventure for a ll of us. This guy is a real gem.
So, let me get this straight; he sees a massive conspiracy theory on 911, but sees nothing in Mormon history that even raises an eyebrow?
Boy, that indoctrination and brainwashing from birth, can really do a number on people, even conspiracy theorists like this clown Steven Jones. He should start with Mormonism and then branch out...you know, the milk before the meat...LOL!!
Samuel the Utahnite
Labels: Mormon, Mormon LDS Mormonism cult brainwashing indoctrination fraud lies liars criminals joseph smith pedophile child rape adultery Thomas Monson Henry Eyring crooks vile assholes TBM apologists prophet evil
posted by Samuel the Utahnite @ 6:52 AM
23 comments
23 Comments:
I like Steve Jones, and yes, I agree with his 9/11 theories. But it is amusing (as you pointed out) that he can so blatantly see the ridiculous lies and propaganda/brainwashing in that scenario - and yet NOT with Mormonism. Whether or not you agree with him, if any good comes of this, it's that his quitting from BYU might signal the beginning of realizing the TRUTH about the Mormon faith. Let's hope he is smart enough to figure it out for himself.
I think Steve Jones is an interesting man, especially since he sees the war in Iraq as a war of agression, which is clearly is. That knothead we have in the White House started a war that nobody wanted. Let the Iraqi people get rid of their own dictator. The US does not need to police the world. George Bush is a damn liar and an absolute idiot. It is embarrassing to have that retard as our president.
Getting back to Steve Jones, he may have a screwed up theory about the twin towers, but his comments on the war are right on.
Bonnie
So you believe the Mormon Church is desperate to get Romney elected for the ir own purposes (some would call this a "conspiracy theory"), but refuse to look at the plethora of evidence that the WTC was brought down with pre-planted explosives? You need to do some more homework, and stop discrediting Dr. Jones just because he is a "Mormon"! I have spent hundreds of hours researching and Dr. Jones is absolutely 100% CORRECT!! It would seem sacred cows die hard, but CHENEY is the man to blame...Bush is too stupid! Start with these links and take off your blinders, man! My journey out of Mormonism started with learning about 9/11, and why Mormons continue to support this lying president and his administration...one thing led to another, and I stopped believing the lies I was being fed by the government, the media, and the Church. Maybe Dr. Jones will wake up to the lie of Mormonism also.
http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Preloader, http://www.v911t.org/SergeantLauroChavez.php, http://www.st911.org/
I woulda figured Samuel to be on the side of any guy who champions the cause of TRUTH in the face of overwhelming lies and cover ups.
STEVEN HJONES is a hero and a true American for standing up to the lies about WTC!!!!!
Just like Samuel saw throgh the lies of the mormon church, STEVEN JONEs saw the lies of the white house. He's one of the good guys.
maybe some day you'll see your both right. Gordon Hinckley and Goerge Bush are both liers!!!!!
You know guys, I'm a little surprised at how many of you are buying this crap. Do I think the US Government is perfect? No, of course not!! You say that Bush is a liar? The question is; is he also a mass murderer? I'm sure you think he is. Maybe you even think he's worse than the terrorists and some even compare him to Hitler, etc.
Do I think that President Bush and his Cabinet, led by Cheney, purposely set bombs in the World Trade Center and worked hand in hand with Bin Laden, to organize 911...hell no!!
I think it is absurd and I want you guys that are such die-hard believers in this non-sense, to clearly lay out for me and everyone else reading here, exactly how it was all done. If you are gonna make or support outlandish, hypothetical, conspiracy theories; then we need details, facts, how, who, when, why, and everything else.
The charges being made are very serious and deserve a very serious and thorough explanation, fully supported by documented facts and first-hand witnesses, that were deeply involved.
I don't just point fingers at Mormonism and the Mormon Hierarchy and shout fraud; rather I spend countless hours showing everyone why and how and that is the least I can expect from you guys, that support these 911 conspiracy theories.
To compare the obvious fraud of Mormonism, that is completely backed by facts, reality and truth, with the 911 conspiracy; is ridiculous. I mean seriously, bring forth the hard evidence, that all of these people were involved, which would probably at least be hundreds, if not thousands and I'll believe you.
At least bring forward one person, just ONE, that can detail how they did this and when the bombs were planted, etc. They will hit every talk show from Oprah to Don Imus and be very rich and then probably dead, right? Then again, maybe Bush and his guys already took out everyone that was involved, right?
The crash in Roswell, New Mexico apparently has more people willing to come forward than the 911 co-conspirators. I think you guys have just been drinking way too much Kool-aide.
You guys compare my discovery of Mormonism to 911 and I'm gonna compare those that can believe in Mormonism, to those that buy this conspiracy theory. There is a much better comparison for that, than the dots you guys are trying to connect.
I think that one of the problems us ex-Mormons have, is that once we realize we were lied to and duped our entire lives, unknowingly, by very corrupt men, with lots of power and money, that we trusted; we become very skeptical of everyone and everything, but I'm trying not to do that, because it isn't healthy to see conspiracies and have distrust in everything and everyone we know. Sometimes things are just what they appear to be.
I mean what are we gonna say next, that Bill Clinton personally organized and worked with the terrorists, to bomb "The Cole" and all of the Marine barracks? Was Bill Clinton behind the first World Trade Center Bombing back in, I think 1994? Is a US sponsored dirty bomb just around the corner? Will it say US Government on the side? Will they fire it at the Pentagon?
Is that why Clinton never even personally went there or did much about it or wanted to capture Osama Bin Laden when he was offered on a silver plater, as he admits in his own words? Was it because they were buddies and then that friendship continued on through Bush?
Of course Clinton would be lying now, about how he tried to kill Bin Laden so many times and that he just slipped away somehow.
I mean come on guys, what the hell are we talking about here and where does it end? Is everything that has ever happened some gigantic conspiracy? What's next? Will Bush and his guys or the next President, personally arrange through Iran or Al Qaeda, to Nuke the US for more political gain and power?
Do you guys even really know what you are supporting and some of the crazy ideas that Steven Jones and his 911 for truth people have? Steven Jones is a co-founder of this organization and is a chairman.
Here is a quote, that sums up a few of their other crackpot ideas:
"A study of the full extent of their claims is a journey into the increasingly absurd: Flight 93 did not crash in Pennsylvania but landed safely in Cleveland; desperate phone calls received by relatives on the ground from passengers were actually computer-generated voices from a laboratory in California.
The Pentagon was not hit by American Airlines Flight 77, but by a smaller, remote-controlled A-3 Sky Warrior, which shot a missile into the building before crashing into it."
I mean, my God, they landed safely in Cleveland and then Bush used "computer-generated voices from a laboratory in California", to create the desperate calls to their families? Are you guys serious?
I can't even explain how far gone someone has to be, in my opinion, to buy this shit. It is beyond insane!! I mean, it goes far beyond the towers. The US government, fired a missile into their own Pentagon? Wow!! You guys think that this bullshit makes more sense than the standard explanation of what happened? Really?!!
Like I said above, Steven Jones co-founded this 911 committee and is a chairman and is therefore responsible for everything they publicly say, believe and post, unless there is a retraction or correction and I haven't seen any.
My question is, where are all the survivors from the 2 planes that didn't crash in PA. and into the Pentagon. Did Bush have them executed or are they captive, being held prisoner in secret prisons?
Are they still alive? Are their families in on it or do they still think they are dead? Are these prisoners allowed to keep in touch with their families? Where are those two planes? Did Bush blow them up or just hide them somewhere? Maybe Steven Jones could go looking for those planes as that would be some damn hard, indisputable evidence, wouldn't it?
What hit the ground in PA? Was that a missile too? I'm guessing there were not plane fragments, not body parts, nothing? Wow, now that is a serious cover-up, isn't it? Then again, maybe they took all the passengers and tied them together, right at that spot and then hit them with the missile?
That whole..."Let's roll" thing was pretty cool, wasn't it? I wonder who wrote the script of the computer generated phone calls? If it was pre-recorded and the passengers played along and had to learn their scripts; it must have been at gun point, right? Then they killed them later, after the recording. I wonder how many takes it took? I wonder if they videotaped it? Maybe Steven Jones can find that tape or the scripts?
Steven Jones believes that the planes were just a "diversion" from the bombs, meaning that Bush worked with Bin Laden to accomplish their goals, or Bush found out about the hijackings, just let them happen and thought that they'd take advantage of the moment, to kill as many Americans as possible and plant bombs in the towers, just in case the planes didn't do the job. Are you guys seriously buying all of this?
I can't even fathom that you guys have spent countless hours researching this logically and have come to the conclusion that it's all true.
In my opinion, it's like being a realistic ex-Mormon, dealing with the facts or reality, or saying that everything Ed Decker says is the truth and relying on him. There is a huge difference, because he, for some reason, feels the need to fabricate lies and make things much more grandiose than they are, when we don't have to make anything up.
I mean get away from the "well science proves that it had to be an inside job" BS, because there are just as many, if not more scientists, that are proving this to be complete BS. Of course, I'm sure they are all on the Bush payroll, right? Just use common sense guys and try to THINK about it logically and how remote it would be, that these theories are actually true.
I mean, let's see, we have a 110 story building and let's just suppose for a moment that the intense heat from the jet fuel, melts the metal, or caused enough damage upon impact to weaken the structure of the metal.
Of course the floors above, are weighing down on the weakened support structure for what; an hour or so? Finally, it gives way and starts falling.
Now, why would it fall to the left or right or forward or backward? Wouldn't it make sense that it would fall just like a pancake, one floor to the next? I guess I'm just an idiot and can't see what you guys see, but, the way the buildings fell, makes perfect sense to me, using just plain old logic.
Had anything like this ever happened before? Has anyone done an exact test(before or after) of the plane exploding, all the jet fuel, all the weight, damaged metal(exactly as it was damaged when the planes hit), etc, to see what would happen?
Well, I think we saw what happened and it is what it is. If you guys truly believe that our government personally orchestrated this entire thing, to kill 3,000 innocent people, including many Americans and create the worst tragedy on American soil since Pearl Harbor; I'd be getting the hell out of the USA.
I'm not telling you to, I'm just saying that I sure wouldn't feel safe, where I knew that our President was best buddies with Osama and Al Qaeda and plotting to kill as many Americans as possible, to further his personal agenda. Do you really want to be around for the next Government orchestrated attack? I sure wouldn't want to be.
Was Pearl Harbor also arranged and set up by the US Government? Did we drop the bombs on Japan just to cover-up what we'd done, so that nobody would suspect? It sounds absurd, but makes about as much sense as this conspiracy BS about 911.
All I'm saying guys, is think outside of the conspiracy box, use common logic and analysis, before making conclusions that you know, without a doubt, that Bush and the US Government, orchestrated and planned these attacks and brutally killed thousands of innocent people. Also, let's not forget about the Oklahoma city bombing, which I'm sure you guys think was the US Government too, right?
You may just want to consider terrorism and terrorists in your equations, unless we, the US, are behind ALL of the terrorism around the world and are the "real Al Qaeda." Maybe Bin Laden actually has been working for us all along and that's why we can't seem to find him, right?
Keep in mind that we all once believed, with all of our hearts, minds and souls, that Mormonism was the "one and only true and living church on earth" and how did that turn out? We were dead wrong!! I'm just saying to think deeper and harder about it.
I seriously have no problem agreeing to disagree, I just wanted to share with all of you, why I think it is so ridiculous and absurd. The sun will come up tomorrow, unless of course, the US Government is plotting to blow up the sun or the US, then maybe it won't. If the sun doesn't come up tomorrow, it was nice knowing all of you...LOL!!
Take care,
Samuel the Utahnite
Sameul, you are being naive. There's tons of evidence out there, but I'm not gonna sit here and spell it out for you like a school lesson for a little kid - do the homework yourself.
There are dozens of books on the topic, dozens of documentaries, hundreds of websites. I mean, come on, if you wanted to know the truth - you would. The evidence is overwhelming and it's SO OBVIOUS you haven't researched any of it. Maybe a tidbit here and there and then thought you were informed. For instance try watching these videos on google video:
911 Mysteries
911 Eyewitness
Try reading "The New Pearl Harbor" by Edward Griffin, or "9/11 Synthetic Terror" by Webster Tarpley. Try visiting the numerous websites from scientists, scholars, educators, engineers, etc., which lay out how it was done. Try ACTUAL RESEARCH instead of mockery and blind faith in the government = tantamount to the blind faith we all once had in Mormonism.
Tons of people have come out, from CIA, MI5 and MI6, the Bush admin and former admins, and high ranking officials from other governments SAYING that 9/11 was an inside job. Ok? Just actually research with a half-open mind and figure it all out for yourself.
I don't have the time to sit here all day and spell it out for the skeptics that can't be bothered to research, view the evidence and learn for themselves. Either do it or don't. But don't pretend to be informed and act patronizingly to those of us who have researched this for YEARS literally.
End of story.
I respect what you do in regards to telling the truth about Mormonism, and I think despite differences of opinion we should get back to focusing on that. You are either alienating the 9/11 Truth community with your criticisms of Steve Jones (by the way, actually READ his scientific theories which are on the web), or else if you supported his views, Mormons might think you are a kook and not believe the TRUTH about the LYING MORMON CHURCH. So in reality, you can't win. Maybe better to just leave the topic alone. And I agree with another noter, don't attack Jones just because he's mormon.
Maybe you can't win on this subject. But for your own personal sake, I advocate research and getting a grasp on reality as it is.
It's time to open our eyes people! The church lied to us! The government lies to us! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! Wake up and see the truth and free yourselves!
Was Pearl Harbor also arranged and set up by the US Government?
Actually, yeah it was. Pearl Harbor was a conspiracy that was condoned and sanctioned by the war-mongering U.S. Gov't to get the U.S. into the War. It's common knowledge by now.
The RADAR operator at Pearl Harbor actually saw the planes coming and he was ordered by his commanding officer to ignore it.
So yeah, I guess you could say that 9/11 is the new Pearl Harbor and you would be right.
I agree with you on most of your blog but you are way off base with this one. Stick to Mormonism. At least you've done a littel research into that.
I hear you all. It's all fucked up. Conspiracy this and conspiracy that; fuck it all.
One thing that I do not like, no matter how you look at the Mormon issue: one who claims to be a Christian should not casually use the name of our Savior.
I know, I know; I say, "Goddammit," all the time, but it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to hear the name of our Lord and Savior used in vain. I could never and still can't do it, and I won't even do it when I'm burning in Hell.
Pearl Harbor may have given the Americans the real push, the overwhelming public support to formally join the war effort, but America was already involved behind the scenes, providing supplies and intelligence to the Allies.
I've also heard about the radar operator who saw the planes coming and was told to ignore them, but I view this as a tragic mistake and not part of some conspiracy. The U.S. only really needed to get attacked to get that public support thrust. They didn't need the entire base devastated. Rallying the air force to intercept the incoming Zeroes would have no effect on the U.S.'s decision to enter WWII other than saving lives.
I still think Jones' claims are very much worth looking into. The more and more that I look into the conspiracy theories and the more I compare them with the 'dubunking sites', the more I find the conspiracy points are valid. One thing that bothers me about Jones, though, is that he seems to get such pleasure in presenting his claims. If what he claims about 9/11 is true, then it isn't anything to be smirking about like he does when he talks about it.
That being said...take another look at his claims those of you who haven't or those of you who have set them aside and laughed them off.
If nothing else, I believe there is alot that is not being answered, and the gov't doesn't seem to be in any hurry to answer them.
~Brad
Agreed.
Steve Jones is a patriot and a hero. Sammy stepped way out of his comfort zone one this one.
- SJfan
Hey, "Effing Fan", dick Samuel here!!
So, what you are really saying, is that if people look at both sides of this issue and weigh both sides, they can only come to one conclusion; that Bush OBVIOUSLY and purposely butchered over 3,000 people, working hand in hand with Osama Bin Laden and that the evidence is 100% conclusive? It doesn't even make any common sense at all to me and well...I'm gonna call you a clown too and I don't care if you are my "Effing Fan." My intent is not to distance all of my "effing fans", rather to just state my opinions, which you don't have to agree with.
These comments regarding the 911 conspiracy, including your comment, "are the single most ignorant pieces of stupidity I have read in months." Are you best buddies with Steven Jones, or what? Have you met him personally, or any of the so called 911 Scholars for truth?
We are all entitled to our own opinions(at least I thought so) and I've expressed mine on this subject and you've expressed yours. You think I'm a dick and I think you're a clown. I guess that's the end of the discussion and we go our separate ways. Good luck to you and yours as I don't even know who the hell you are.
I'm glad that you support this group and think that the USA and it's government, are the real Al Qaeda and terrorists of the world. Good for you!! Is there any teaching of this group that you reject or do you suck it all up, hook line and sinker?
If you support this group, you also believe that we were behind the Bali and Madrid bombings and about every other terrorist attack that has occurred. But I'm the dick eh?
I would suggest that if you live in the USA, that you either find a new country to live in, or to go public in a big way, because the USA terrorists might be blowing up your town next and this country isn't safe.
If you guys think that most Americans believe the USA is really the head of Al Qaeda; you need to re-tabulate your polls and brains. I have looked at both sides and sprinkled in some common sense and basic logic and I've come to the opposite conclusion, so get over it!!
We are gonna all have to agree to disagree, as I'm not gonna change my mind and you aren't gonna change yours, unless you can all provide me with those names of CIA, FBI agents, etc, that have come forward and admitted that Bush did it all.
Please give me the links to these men or women that have come forward to admit how it was all done and what part they played in it. Also, if you can line up an interview with one of the people that were on the 2 planes that didn't crash, I will cut you in on the royalties and we'll get rich together.
Then again, Bush probably executed them, after the planes landed, so that probably won't work, will it? Damn!!
To the last poster, I'm glad that Steven Jones is your hero... congratulations!! I have knowledge on many other subjects outside of Mormonism and I'm right in my comfort zone on this one, you just don't like what I'm saying. Again, I don't care what you think, because I've come to my own opinion. I guess if I'm wrong on this, maybe I'm wrong on Mormonism too, right?
Oops, everybody go back to the Mormon church, because now I have zero credibility and I know nothing about anything...LOL!!
Seriously, I know that this is a very passionate topic for everyone and I have family and friends that live in New York and I come from a military family, with current family and friends serving in both Afghanistan and Iraq. It would be very hard to convince them that the USA is really Al Qaeda, with what they see every damn day.
For those that don't believe it; there really are bad guys and terrorists out there that hate America and the freedom that we or any other country has and they want to kill us and destroy us. I know it's hard to believe, but those are the facts and 911 was part of their terrorism, as hard as it is for you guys to swallow.
But please quit telling me how stupid and uniformed I am on this issue, as I probably know at least as much as you guys, if not more of what's going on, just through my family that have lived through it, both in New York and in the actual battle fields. What makes you guys the experts and so superior to me and others, on your knowledge of 911 anyway?
I have a friend, that had a gun held to his head, by a terrorist that slipped into their military camp in Iraq, in the middle of the night; Thank God the gun didn't go off and he then killed the terrorist. Tell him that the USA are the real Al Qaeda. Tell him that he is actually fighting for Al Qaeda and not against it!!
I suppose we are paying the terrorists to blow up our troops on a daily basis too? Where do these conspiracies end? You guys really need to think about these conspiracies more logically, just like you do with Mormonism and you might just come to a different conclusion.
Samuel
For Anon(Thursday, November 02, 2006 12:56:29 PM),
BULLSHIT!! Okay, I won't concern you with answering any of the above questions I asked, since you obviously don't want to answer them; but I need NAMES, not just some intelligent Anon stating that "tons of people have come out, from CIA, MI5 and MI6, the Bush admin and former admins, and high ranking officials from other governments SAYING that 9/11 was an inside job."
Surely it won't waste too much of your time to give us the exact names of who these high profile people are, so that I and others, can go see exactly what they've said, right? Just treat me like a brainwashed, Mormon, TBM, cult member, that is hopelessly lost. I want current people, not ex CIA or FBI, who may have an ax to grind, rather current people, right now!! I mean why isn't Ted Kennedy destroying Bush on this everyday? Was he, along with the Democrats in on this too. The 911 commission was a mix of both parties.
However, if you can lead me to "the truth" and these important people that are saying Bush did it and they have all of the details of the whole plan; I'll sit up and listen!! Everybody that reads my blog and listens to my podcasts, knows that I love "THE TRUTH", so show me "THE TRUTH!!"
Now, I'm saying that I want to know if every person listed on their website, fully supports ALL of their theories and I want to read where they've come out publicly and stated that they are behind this commission. What I read is mostly just personal opinion by these folks about one thing or another. What about the thousands of high ranking officials who haven't come out and stated that it was an inside job? What about the thousands of people that were DIRECTLY involved in the whole conspiracy? Where are they? Not one is willing to leak a single thing?
I need a scenario that works in all ways, in order to convince me. I need these high profile witnesses, I need strong hard evidence, facts, survivors from those other two planes or at least those that witnessed their imprisonment and/or execution or at least know where they are being held in a secret prison.
By the way, there are just as many well known, logical thinking scientists that say it 's all bullshit too. So, don't insult me and say that I haven't done the research, just because I've come to a different conclusion than you have. Quit hiding behind, "I'm not gonna spell it out", etc and SPELL IT OUT FOR ME. Obviously I'm the idiot here in your eyes, so help me see what you see and know what you know.
Give me the main talking points and respond to my questions. I want an explanation for every single detail, which these clowns that have so much evidence, do not clearly lay out.
Also, I'll talk about whatever the hell I want on my blog and since Mr. Steven Jones is Mormon and was a professor at BYU when he created this theory and posted them on BYU websites and was the co-founder of this organization; I'll link him to Mormonism all day long. If I lose these conspiracy theorists as supporters, so be it and and I have no problem with that. You have your opinion and I have mine and we both think the other is nuts. OH well, that's life!!
But, why isn't this front page news on every newspaper in the world and who was running the computer automated call center in California? Are you guys saying that there is only one possible conclusion here and that the evidence is overwhelming, 1000% in favor of Bush being a mass murderer on 911? Is it even possible that there are 2 sides to the story or is it that obvious? Shouldn't Bush be in Prison?
Obviously, I'm way too stupid and uniformed, to see what you guys see and I need some serious help. At least direct me to a site and shows who these high profile people are, that have blown the whistle and why aren't they in prison yet? When I say "blown the whistle", I'm not saying they have an opinion or theory, I'm taking cold, hard facts and absolute proof and explicit details of how, when and why!! PROOF guys!!
Where we behind the Bali bombings, the train bombings in Madrid, Spain, the Marine barracks, the USS Cole, etc? People on the committee you support say yes and compare Bush to Hitler. Do you guys believe this? In fact, they say we are behind all terrorism and all of the attacks in the whole world. Is that what you guys believe too?
Like I said, if it is, you may need to get out of the USA, because it isn't safe here for you or your families any longer.
Also, if Democrats take over the Whitehouse in 2009, will they continue that relationship with Al Qaeda and Bin laden, or is it just a Republican thing? I mean, it seems to me that this "the USA are terrorists BS" has been going on for a long time, which would include 8 years with Bill Clinton, according to you guys. So, is it a partisan thing or just an overall anti-government thing?
My goal is not to alienate people, rather state my opinion, based on evidence and the same things you guys are looking at . So, you guys are saying that, when weighing all of the evidence, from both sides, there is only one conclusion, right?
So, here is a brief synopsis of what you guys believe, if you support these guys, like ex-BYU Professor Steven Jones and University of Wisconsin Madison adjunct professor Kevin Barrett, both on the 911 Scholars for truth commission:
A missile had to have hit the Pentagon, not a hijacked plane with people on it? Bush planned out and orchestrated 911. The USA government, is the real boss of Al Qaeda and we are calling the shots and giving the orders to the terror cells and Osama Bin Laden? The two planes that supposedly crashed into the Pentagon and the field in PA, landed safely, one in Cleveland? The people on-board those two planes are either being held secretly somewhere or they were executed after the fact?
They have to be somewhere, right? They didn't just evaporate into some other dimension...then again......maybe they did, right? Why not? Anyone got a theory on that?
The calls to their loved ones where computer generated out of some place in California? So, they either matched their voices perfectly with the computer or the calls were pre-recorded before they were taken hostage or executed?
The 2 planes that these people were on, either A)were blown up and destroyed, in some top secret location or B) they are still hidden in some secret location or maybe even C) the identity of the airplanes was changed and they are still in service as we speak and nobody knows it, except those that are "in on it."
Now, if you guys think you are the majority and I'm the minority here in my opinions, you are also dead wrong. Then again, I'm sure Steven Jones and company, have taken their own polls and come out with some 99% of all the world believe it was an inside job.
Here is a great article that pretty much sums all of this up:
Guardian Article On Steven Jones And The 911 Conspiracy
Here is a link to the Popular Mechanics article, that debunks it all. Of course the 911 Scholars have re-debunked what they have said, because they are all on the Bush payroll over at Popular Mechanics.
Bottom line guys; we will never agree and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't care if you think I'm insane, crazy and out of my mind, in the conclusions I've reached; but don't be offended when I think the same of you and your conclusions, okay?
Samuel
Hey Samuel,
I find the 9/11 conspiracy theorists to be frighteningly convincing at times, but when you step back and look at the big picture, it's really hard to swallow the whole thing.
It might be more believable that the Bush Administration did not intercept the attacks just like a previous poster said s/he believes that the U.S. purposely allowed Pearl Harbor to be attacked. But even that idea is dubious.
Certainly, the Bush Administration has taken advantage of the attacks and they've used the attacks to push their own political and personal agendas passing legislation and taking action that had nothing to do with al Qaida.
However, one thing that upsets me is to see statements like this:
there really are bad guys and terrorists out there that hate America and the freedom that we or any other country has
Ask Joe Average American on the street why we were attacked on 9/11 and they won't have a clue. You'll get retarded answers like "they hate us because we have freedom".
And that's totally not the case.
The fact of the matter is, the United States has pretty much been making it their business to screw over the Arab world since World War II.
The Allies promised the Arabs independence and self-governance if they helped drive Hitler out of North Africa, and they delivered.
Then the United States screwed them by giving Palestine to the Jews.
Then the United States continued to screw them by giving money to Israel.
Then military support. Weapons. Technical advisors. Intelligence.
We got attacked because we kept sticking our nose in Arab business and screwing them over. And it was no accident that they attacked the World Trade Center. It was a symbolic attack against American greed.
Our greed led us to attack Iraq in the first Gulf War. For some reason, it's wrong for Iraq to invade Kuwait, but it's perfectly okay for China to invade Tibet.
Our entire country revolves around greed and materialism. Capitalism rewards greed. That's why we're in so much trouble with these big corporate scandals.
So they have a retaliatory reason for attacking us. And they have a philosophical reason for attacking us. And to be perfectly frank, they're both pretty good reasons.
I'm not condoning what they did. Clearly attacking and killing civillians is wrong. It's apalling when anyone does it, including the U.S.
Certainly, if the Palestinians used passive resistance like Ghandi or Martin Luther King and laid down in the streets, the Israeli's wouldn't dare roll their tanks over them. They'd be backed into a corner and the whole world would side against the Israelis.
Violence obviously isn't the answer here.
But to say they hate us because we have freedom.... well, I'm not gonna call anyone names, but at the very least, it's inaccurate.
Samuel - once again you spout off like an idiot. Firstly, not ALL 9/11 theories are sound. Some people believe there were nuclear bombs that hit the building. Some people believe there were NO commercial airliners at all! Obviously we could go to the twilight zone and back. NO, I don't believe in computer-automated voices and the more outlandish.
I DO BELIEVE (based on the EVIDENCE) that the US GOV worked in tandem with the 9/11 hijackers - in other words knew what they were planning and allowed them to do it, playing them as puppets. Yes, I do believe that the WTCs were brought down by controlled demolition. Watch the clips of WTC7. You'd have to be a fucking IDIOT not to realize that was controlled demo - especially since it was NEVER hit by debris, and it wasn't hit by a plane, had a tiny fire (smaller than the other ones) and fell in the late afternoon.
If a plane hit the pentagon ... where's the evidence smartass? You mean to tell me there's not ONE SINGLE video clip of it? With the hotel cameras, gas station cameras (that the FBI confiscated right away) and all the cameras on the pentagon? Oh yeah ... they realeased ONE VIDEO of what looks like a missile - you can't even see a plane!
And how did an airplane hit the most powerfully guarded building in the world anyway? OOPS! Guess it was all a "coincidence". Even though the US gov had over an hour to stop the plane which they knew was coming and had NORAD stand down.
As for Flight 93 - I really can't say. All I can tell you is that they didn't find ONE SINGLE BODY in the wreckage site ... compare that with even the WTC's where they are still finding remains today. But I guess that's just another "coincidence". Or the fact that the lead investigator said the site looked like " a giant hole had been dug up and parts thrown in it". But I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about, right?
Or the fact that the LAWN of the pentagon wasn't even damaged!! hmm ... a commercial airliner hits the pentagon and there's a tiny hole in the side of the building (before it collapsed) and there's not even a skid mark on the lawn? WHOA! That's some TERRIFIC FLYING!! That's not even possible by the laws of physics (the angles that is). Nevermind the fact that there was CORDITE found at the pentagon. What's that? GO RESEARCH IT FOR YOURSELF DUMMY!!
I could go on and on all day. Why don't you get a grip, pal? What people like you do is mock the rest of the brave men and women who are risking their lives and reputations to tell the TRUTH and do REAL RESEARCH and get the FACTS out the American public! What are you doing, you sniveling snot?
You watch a couple videos, read some "debunking" reports and then arrogantly act like you know it all! Well the Popular Mechanics article has been debunked itself - or didn't you know that? And just because the mainstream media takes a few outlandish theories, or a few silly arguments and blows them up to be the "BELIEFS" of the entire 9/11 truth movement means squat. You buy into it because you're too terrified to face the truth ... like the idiotic mormons that can't even see the truth about their church! KEEP ON DENYING PAL! Nothing sweeter than living in denial! Oh yeah!
Where's some of those "names"?
How about:
Ray McGovern - 27+ year CIA analyst
David Shayler - former MI5 agent
Annie Machon - former MI5 agent
William Rodriguez - employee at WTC (last civilian to be found alive in wreckage)
Cynthia McKinney - former congresswoman
I could carry on ...
How about researching the Carlyle Group? Or the connections to Marvin Bush - GW's younger brother in charge of security at the WTC's? Or the reports by FIREFIGHTERS of bombs going off? And of survivors?
What of the official whitewash .. oops, I mean report ... watch the video:
911 Press for Truth on googlevideo which was made by VICTIM'S FAMILIES!!!
Try watching "Terrorstorm" on googlevideo and learn about the history of government sponsored terrorism.
Learn about who had security at the airports and planes which were hijacked (connections to Bush and cronies again). TRY ACTUAL RESEARCH!!
Don't just read 'hit pieces' done by the MSM to brainwash you ... and then laugh it off because you're so blessed with superior skills of logic and discernment. Did you know that white-wash commissioned NIST still hasn't been able to cite why WTC7 came down??
How could everyone have kept quiet? GIMME A BREAK! It wouldn't take thousands, maybe even less than a hundred. You only need demolitions experts (and again, research how they got into the WTC's - common knowledge) and some people in high levels of government, some black ops, etc. The rest of the people involved probably didn't even KNOW they were involved! (Such is the restricted, compartmentalized nature of the intelligence agencies, etc). Also - hundreds of people worked on making the atomic bomb for years - and how long did it take for that to get out? Of course NO ONE IS GOING TO ADMIT TO IT! They would be killed, or laughed off, or disbelieved ... or charged with murder!
But that's right ... a bunch of Muslims getting directed from a CAVE had NORAD STAND DOWN, managed to hit the most guarded building in the world (and not leave any video evidence), managed to bring down 3 STEEL BUILDINGS from fires alone --- never happened in the history of the world -- and managed to do this under the nose of all US security and intelligence services. Yup. I bet. Even though some of the hijackers were trained at US ARMY BASES! WHOA!
Of course there are real terrorists. Of course there are bad guys, people trying to kill Americans, REAL extremists out there ... don't get me wrong. But the biggest terrorist is the US GOVERNMENT! THE GOVERNMENT (or special ops/factions) were behind 9/11! And yes, western governments were behind the bombings in Madrid and Britain. Before you laugh me off, try actually RESEARCHING real evidence - instead of just picking up bits here and there from a couple mocking MSM articles. Try thinking for yourself!!
Anyone who honestly researches it all, and looks at ALL the evidence, and keeps an open mind - will soon realize the truth! I can't even write more about it or I will get too angry and plus this will end up being a book.
Watch the documentaries! Read the books! Study the structural evidence! THINK FOR YOURSELVES! Come on idiots! You can do it!!
I admit I have not looked into this as much as anon seems to have. Even the little that I have done I think there is great cause for concern. If Steven is wrong about it, there goes his career and his credibility.
I can't imagine anyone with so much to lose as those above, would proceed WITHOUT some evidence to keep them going.
Samuel. You remind me of Brian Anderson
in his feeble attempts at defending Moism. He could have written your arguements for you. "It's my opinion and I'm stickin with it, and I don't care what you say". A typical Mormon arguement,don't you think? "My mind is made up! Don't confuse me with facts".
I agree with the above poster. Stick with Mormonism. You are GREAT at that!!
Ah! One more little thing:
Every professor that has been let go by BYU, or otherwise blackballed by that institution has been a hero of sorts to us exmo's. Steve has "offended" BYU
hierarchy by his research re: 911. We ought to be, IMO, supportive of ANYONE who offends these meglomaniacs at BYU.
Go Steve! Take it where ever it leads you, man!
Whether the conspiracy theory is true or not it is an interesting one and I find it impressive that a prominent mormon would speak out against the bush administration when he must surely know he would be fired or encouraged to leave BYU.
From the way he speaks, is ready to investigate and challenge strongly held beliefs and the fact that he has been shafted by church admin, I'm pretty sure it won't be long until he has his own exmo blog.
You Guys need to wake up and start searching for any other world organisation that would profit of all thats going on. There has been an organisation that has been controling all world goverments and when they do not comply 911 happens !!!!.......
Samuel,
I'm sorry but I think you are being naive (as I was), which is really good thing actually. It's sad to ponder that the USA, what we grew up thinking was the cradle of democracy and a beacon for the world, would attack its own people. But there are more than just theories out there, there are FACTS as well. Just one example. Have you heard of Operation Northwoods? It was a Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) APPROVED plan in 1962 to commit terrorist attacks on Americans in the US. This means that in addition to the JCS Chairman (4 star general), each service chief from the Army (4 star general), Navy (Admiral), Air Force (4 star general) and Marines (4 star general) signed off and AGREED with it. A CONSENSUS Samuel. A F-A-C-T. Specifically, a fact doumented in the official National Security Archive. Why this insanity? To mobilize the masses to support an overthrow of Cuba. Rationale: sacrifice a few for the good of the masses, the millions. The mind wants to tell you it's a conspiracy theory, doesn't it? Castro was a jerk, but our government would never make a plan to kill out own citizens to get him, would we? Proposterous. Try again. Like I said, it's a FACT acknowledged by your government. Download the .pdf I link below and read it for yourself. Reality is we have some very ruthless people running our government now. Was 911 an inside job? Don't know. But did motive exist. Absolutely. Mobilize the masses. Gee, didn't I just mention that a few sentences above. And guess what. The masses were mobilized. Maybe coincidence, but the desired effect was achieved.
I have been researching this for a while, but for me, the jury is still out. I force myself not to draw conclusions lightly on issues of this gravity, and neither should you. So, how did George Bush so easily win the benefit of your doubt? Anyway, I will agree there is a lot of BS out there on the conspiracy side. Sadly, it detract from those that make really good points. See that's the thing. If you just question one thing, you are not just questioning something, you magically become a conspiracy theorist. Which means a nut automatically. Does asking questions about things that seem odd make someone a traitor or a nut? The LABELING of people as conspiracy theorists has the same effect as we now see with the term 'liberal'. It's a mind game friend. Before the war fell apart, anybody who questioned the war didn't "support the troops" and wasn't a patriot. Forgot about that already? Of course, the lid is blown off that propaganda now. But back on the so-called 911 conspiracy theories. Personally, I can't stand one of the most popular theorists--Alex Jones. He is a radio talk show host, kind of like Rush Limbaugh's alter ego, who I feel is exploiting the issue to hawk DVDs, books, newsletter subscriptions--promotes himself as much as the cause. Loudmouth jerk. He is the guy who recruited Charlie Sheen to go public with his own conspiracy beliefs. But I have come across a couple of sources that I feel are quite genuine (every subject has both good and bad sources). Anyhoo, I recommend you check out a Google video by a Ph.D. Christian Theologist and "911 official story doubter" named Dr. David Ray Griffin, linked below. He is very articulate, calm, rational, and lays out his claims very straight forward==in my humble opinion. It is 90 minutes long though.
Operation Northwoods plan to commit terrorism against our own people link. Directly from the U.S. Government National Security archive, my friend --> http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf
Dr. David Ray Griffin --> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-275577066688213413&q=david+ray+griffin
I probably won't come back to your site. But e-mail me at bbsquad@hotmail.com if you want to pass on comments. I have another really good source of information. Put my name in the e-mail subject if you do mail me, as this is my spam address. See ya... JOHN
P.S. when I was in the Air Force, I was stationed in Norway for few years. My landlord rented an apartment under my garage to the local mormon church. I am a catholic, BTW. Anyway, we saw loads of girls on their missions pass thru. First mormons I ever met. I did seem to think these folks were very devout--Moreso than catholics anyway. My wife befriended almost all of them, and even stays in contact with a few after many years since we left...
It's true that to think that an idiot like Bush and a few others could pull off a thing like 9/11 and get away with it is ridiculous. But if you do your homework and discover who the “powers that be” are in our nation and world, and how absolutely powerful they are (as long as the mass majority is “dumbed up” enough to it all), it is easy to see how they could pull off a job like 9/11 if they wanted to (as well as all the other crap they have been doing for many years). Bush doesn’t run this nation; he’s just one of their many puppets.
Do some research on the Illuminati, Skull and Bones, the Bohemian club, New World Order, etc.
This site has a pretty good list of videos that are of interest here: http://www.mind-deprogramming.com/
Also, here are some links to a radio show where an ex-Mormon named True Ott was interviewed. He has some VERY interesting information and viewpoints on how Mormonism is sort of related to all this (as well as other general information).
Clip 1
Clip 2
I agree with the last poster (John). There are a lot of very valid points out there and a lot of hard evidence for many conspiracies, but there is also some kooky stuff (or if true, aren’t presented in the right manner) that you have to sort of weed through. BUT, if the so-called “Illuminati” controls the mass media as many believe (and as there is some evidence for), then they will somehow direct the media to help the public pass off ALL conspiracies as kooky. They would have THAT much power.
~Brad
Brad-
I was with Mr. Ott the Christmas eve 1979 that he refers to in his story you referenced. I have reviewed my journal written at that time and place. Mr. Ott's facts as to the activities of that day and night are not correct. True could always tell a good story......
It's great that you're exposing the truth about Mormonism. Organized religion as a whole should be your next target. If you haven't already, watch the movie at zeitgeistmovie.com
You will definitely find more to discuss and think about.
-Painful Salute
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