How Much CASH Is The MORmON PRophet Of Fraud Thomas S. Monson & His Gang Of Thugs & Goons Raking In On Just Garments & Temple Clothing Sales Annually?

 

3/7/2011-Here is a new video of the MORmON Temple Ceremony from Big Love(fast forward to about the 4:35 mark if you just want to see the temple ceremony part)..as the last 2 have been deleted by the MORmON CULT HIERARCHY. So I apologize in advance to this person, who will also have this video deleted from their account at some point in the very near future & most likely will have their entire account deleted as they've done to me & many of my friends, multiple, countless times.

Why do they do this? Because they're TERRIFIED of THE TRUTH getting out there exposing their pathetic CULT. Too late for you Mr. Tommy Boy & your 14 DUMB SHITS!! LOL!!

This is the best & most complete video yet though, as it also includes Barb meeting with her church leaders before going through the temple, then going through the temple & then her church court where they ask her about what underwear she's currently wearing(is she wearing her garments?), excommunicate her & call Polygamy a "misguided abomination" & "shameful practice in the modern church" & then use Boyd KKK Packer's classic teaching/words stating "Some things that are true are not very useful."

Barb then classically asks them why they want to lie, hide & cover-up their past history of polygamy. It's a real beauty folks & I'd enjoy it while it lasts, as I don't expect it to be around long, with the 7-10,000 hits I still get monthly on this blog, many still coming directly from church headquarters, at all times of the day, night & morning...including the middle of the night. Enjoying what you're seeing ASSHOLES?!!

I promise some new posts/podcasts are coming soon...just been too busy dealing with life & personally helping people out of the MORmON CULT. My research & studies never end & I can't wait to have more time to expose even more of MORmONISM than I already have, as I have so much to say.Enjoy everyone & thanks for all the comments, Emails & your support!!

I was searching the web today and came across some ex-Mormons having a discussion about this post. They lamented the fact that I didn't include the links to Brigham Young admitting that he hadn't EVER paid his tithing and to future PRophet John Taylor(an ASSpostHOLE at that time) being on the non-tithe payer list. 

Well, over the last 4 years, I've been pretty well known for always including the detailed links and proof to everything I post from MORmON history and doctrines and I dropped the ball on those 2 items...sorry about that guys...I must have been tired!! 

When I wrote it, I knew it was true because I'd just read it in my research; but you guys don't know that and probably haven't read or heard about it and I have now provided the links above and below, so that everyone can easily verify it and know that both statements are indeed 100% true and factual.

Hopefully this will help fuel the conversation, as these are 2 pretty big and important pieces of information, which again proves how dramatically things have changed in MORmONISM(and with their "GOD") over the years.

I encourage everyone reading this to spread it around to as many places as possible.

TBMs and MORmON apologists will of course vehemently deny that any of this ever happened and they'll call me a liar or worse...even though they mentioned and quoted the very book(directly from BYU's website)by E. Jay Bell(regarding something else I'll be exposing soon) that I quoted Brigham Young from, regarding not paying his tithing. I was researching something else and just happened to come upon that suprising statement...so THANK YOU BYU...LOL!!

Besides that, it was said in the MORmON's general conference in 1875...which I haven't found access to yet...but that makes it OFFICIAL!! I have access to records that go back to the 1880 General Conference until now...but not before 1880.

Thanks again guys for pointing this out and feel free to leave a comment or drop me an Email in the future, if I haven't included something in a post that I should have or if you have any questions. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the last time I bought a pair of secret & scared "MAGIC" Mormon garments/underwear, around 4-5 years ago; they were around $12 a pair, as the cost had just gone up. Maybe it was the cost of the type I bought, as I remember they had different prices for different types. I remember when they were around $7.00 a pair but of course that wasn't enough for the money hungry cult leaders/Jesus, who want every cent they can get their grubby hands on!!

If anyone has bought them lately and has a more accurate price range, or can access the LDS website that has all of the different prices; please share the info, so that I can be more accurate. It's too bad that Ebay won't let us sell them, as it would be a fun hobby and we could make a good living...selling Mormon magic underwear on Ebay...LOL!!

I'm guessing with the Salt Lake City, multi-billion dollar mall/downtown construction projects...the cost of garments will be going waaaay up, as someone has to pay for "Jesus'" shiny new malls(big and spacious buildings), right? I'm sure that "Jesus" will be having a very special meeting with Tommy Boy, in the Holy of Holies, regarding the much needed increase of the cost of Jesus' Magic underwear...LOL!!

In any case, if they are say $12 a pair and you have around 3 million active, temple going Saints(could be more or less), that buy say 10 pair a year...that would add up to 360 million dollars a year, minus their cost to make each pair which is what...50 cents or a dollar at most? They pay their workers minimum wage, so it could even be even less than that.

So, in my opinion, I would guess an accurate number would be somewhere between $200-400 million, based on the actual number of active temple goers, the actual cost per pair they buy & how many pair they buy per year. Could even be more than $400 million, which wouldn't surprise me at all...I just know it's in the hundreds of millions, even low-balling it in all of the categories that I just mentioned above.

That's why they want you to buy your garments from them exclusively and why you aren't allowed to make your own garments.(and make sure your cut out and burn the little Masonic marks in them when they wear out, so that you can use them to dust the furniture or wipe your car down, etc...LOL!) Amazing how much power those marks have eh...when there...garments are fully functional...when they're gone...garments are just rags and have lost all of their "MAGIC POWER"...LOL!!

God I was a brainwashed dumb ass to believe all of that bullshit and so is anyone else that does!!

Oh and let's not forget the "money changers" in the back of the temple(ching, ching) that are RENTING the temple clothes for a ridiculous price(what they call "a small cleaning fee"), considering what it actually costs them to wash all the clothes, at the end of the day, in one massive load, in Jesus' sacred and blessed washing machines. I'm sure the washer and dryer were included in the dedicatory prayer, right?("Protect ALL from any devastating influence, destruction, or defacement.")

Hey didn't "Jesus" kick the money changers out of the temple...oops!! THEY'RE BACK...time to return bad-ass "Jesus" and kick them out again...LOL!! I guess now he loves money changers...but we have to also add the daily rental money to the above mentioned profits. I'm sure they make tens of millions on the rental charges, mostly from Utah and all of the brainwashed cultists that reside there.

Even when I was a TBM, I was VERY uncomfortable(as were many of my family members and friends) with a cash register ringing up my temple clothes and costume rental costs and I often wondered how that made sense, knowing what "Jesus" thought of the money changers.

Funny how the cash register bothered me so much, but the death penalties and pantomiming my death(along with and beside my family and friends) by slitting my throat and chest and disemboweling myself, if I ever revealed "THE SECRETS" of the temple; was just fine...man, was I brainwashed!!

I was bothered and disturbed by the DEATH PENALTIES when I first did them(not knowing ANYTHING about them beforehand), but then moved quickly into acceptance, because after all...it was divine revelation while I was in "The Lord's House", that I should be murdered that way, directly from "Jesus" himself, through Joseph Smith and it was the "one and only true church."

In fact, I would deserve it(DEATH) I thought, if I did indeed reveal those SECRET/SACRED things to anyone else, which I promised I'd never do, with the fear and penalty of DEATH.

On top of the garments, let's also not forget the absurd cost of buying the temple ceremony clothes that you play dress up with and also the actual temple dresses and clothes that you wear under the dress-up clothes. It's Halloween baby, every day a MORmON temple is open.

I'd be surprised if the whole garment/temple clothing market of The Corporation Of The President didn't easily top a billion dollars annually! It's funny(in a pathetic way of course) that just that part of the corporation alone, could be its own successful, independent corporation in the real world.

In fact, in some of the poorest countries in the world, like in Africa; they don't even offer clothing rental and those poor people have to BUY their damn temple clothes. Couldn't they just let them use them FOR FUCKING FREE?!!

Of course not, as NOTHING IS FREE IN THE MORmON CULT!!

"They wouldn't appreciate it as much if they were able to use them for free and didn't have to work for it" is what they would say. Yeah, like the MORmON Hierarchy works for all of the money that rolls in, based on fears and threats of eternal separation from everyone they've ever loved?!!

First you have to pay your damn 10% just to get to "Jesus'" temple, then they nickle and dime you once you're worthy(garments) and then shamelessly once again when you get to the temple. It's a threefold hammer...WHAT A RACKET!!

When my Grandma died a few years ago, we went to the official church clothing store to buy her temple dress for her to be buried in(I was still a TBM at that time). They said they could have given her a discount if she was still alive, but since she was now dead...they'd have to charge us full price for the dress!!(It didn't even occur to the lady how offensive that statement was and just came out naturally, like most MORmON BS that they spew)

I believe the regular price was like $75 & they said that they could have sold us the dress for around $45 or something like that if she was still alive and that that was their official policy.

In other words...WE SHOULD HAVE FUCKING LIED!! Once again, the MORmON cult teaches you that lying is the best policy, just like they've done since 1820 until today.

I explained that she WAS DEAD and shouldn't have to pay more in her death, than when she was alive and that it was an absurd and unfair policy!! I asked "if we'd come in to buy the dress when she was on her death bed...would we have gotten the lower price" and her answer was "yes." I was even more furious at that point and I even told her I should have lied then", which she didn't appreciate!!

Then I told her that it was "outrageous that they were going to stick it to my Grandma like that when she was dead, just because of the fact that she was now dead!" I asked "why would you have such an obscene policy like that" and that "it didn't make any sense?" I then asked "is it because you now know you won't make any more money off of her?" I was PISSED!!

I was then, at the point, starting to seriously raise my voice and start to make the lady uncomfortable and cause somewhat of a scene in the otherwise "reverent" clothing store of the MORmON "Jesus."(again I was still TBM, but also very emotional and upset after losing my Grandma and I couldn't believe that "the one TRUE church" was doing this to my Grandma after her death and essentially punishing us for her death.) Where was the love and compassion?!!

It was more about the principle at this point, than the damn $30...kind of like when Bednar said "it was never about the earrings." The difference is that I'm telling THE TRUTH, Bednar was LYING!!

I said things like "I can't believe you're doing this to my Grandma", "are you kidding me", "you should be ashamed of yourself", "this is absurd", etc. She then told me to "please clam down" and relented and said that "even though she wasn't supposed to and could get in big trouble, that she'd go ahead and give it to me for the lower price." Of course she also asked me "to please not tell anybody." I was so FURIOUS and couldn't believe what I'd just experienced and I was having flash backs to the BS that I'd put up with on my mission.

Anyway, the bottom line is that this Mormon cult will admit to gladly PUNISHING and PENALIZING you and your family, EVEN AFTER YOUR DEAD, while trying to squeeze your loved ones for more cash and every last cent they can get. They are cold and heartless!! There is no depth that they will not sink to, in order to make a buck off of you(even after you're DEAD) and like the douche bag Lynn G. Robbins said a few years ago in General Conference:

No bishop, no missionary should ever hesitate or lack the faith to teach the law of tithing TO THE POOR. The sentiment of “They can’t afford to” needs to be replaced with “THEY CAN'T AFFORD NOT TO.”

One of the FIRST THINGS a bishop must do to HELP THE NEEDY is ask them to PAY THEIR TITHING. Like the widow, IF A DESTITUTE FAMILY IS FACED WITH THE DECISION OF PAYING THEIR TITHING OR EATING, THEY SHOULD PAY THEIR TITHING. The bishop can help them with their food and other basic needs until they become self-reliant. (Lynn G. Robbins, “Tithing—a Commandment Even for the Destitute,” Ensign, May 2005, 34)


Lynn G. Robbins, proudly and literally taking food out of children's mouths for "God."

I want EVERYONE to notice(and I'm pretty sure I'm the FIRST person to point this out) is that in the Ensign and on LDS.org, they've added "and other basic needs until they become self-reliant", after he said "the Bishop can help them with their food."

What's amazing to me, is that Lynn G. Robbins was already lying and then I guess Hinckley added another lie to that lie, by knowingly and falsely stating "and other basic needs until they become self-reliant." I guess they felt it was too harsh. But, you've heard the audio and read the "transcript" and you now know THE TRUTH!!

That statement alone by the asshole Lynn G. Robbins, should be enough for any decent human being to leave the church instantly and realize that it's a cult. Who would ask such a thing? When they are literally asking you to give your money to them(without ANY accountability whatsoever as to where it went) and to then literally STARVE your family, including babies, small children, etc...it's A DAMN CULT!!

What type of animal or beast would ask you to do this(it follows their teaching of always putting the church first and your family second)...as they then hypocritically use your money to build $500 million temples that are open "by appointment only", spend over $600 million dollars to bail out the "Jesus/MORmON" owned Beneficial Life, as they fly around the world in private jets, while eating the finest cuisine and being chauffeured around in luxury cars and building multi-billion dollar malls in Salt Lake and a $30 million luxury resort In Laie, Hawaii, etc, etc?!!

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!

Oh, and the last part referring to the Bishop helping, is a complete CROCK OF SHIT too and just ANOTHER LIE, especially when 99% of the countries the cult is in, have NO WELFARE PROGRAM whatsoever. Hell, they don't even help someone here in the U.S.A. that has faithfully payed their tithing for their entire life "until they become self-reliant."

It's all just another lie, as I have a best friend who has faithfully paid his tithing his entire life, just lost his job and was recently REJECTED by his Bishop for financial assistance of any kind.

Even if you get lucky and the Bishop helps you; it isn't until your "self-sufficient", since I have another friend who was told the limit now is 3 months and they're done with you and kick you to the curb. He was told it was the church's new policy and that was before the economic collapse...it's now probably one week or not at all, like my other friend experienced.

The Bishop told him to "have faith" and of course "to continue paying his tithing(in the spirit of Hinckley and Lynn G. Robbins) and that the 'Lord' would bless him." What a fucking insult and slap in the face...ASSHOLES!!

I of course told him to do the RIGHT THING and to stop paying it immediately and take care of his family and that money wasn't going to fall out of the sky. He ended up pulling out money from his 401K(which he didn't want to do because of the penalties and because it was a temporary problem) and he still paid tithing on it(he was too afraid not to and he seriously considers it his fire insurance...FOR REAL) and after 2 months, things were never worse and he went through hell...so now he's actually questioning, thank the Mormon God!!

Let's say that you've payed tithing for 20 years and averaged $4,000/yr. That would be $80,000(not including fast offerings and every other fund you've foolishly donated to) you've faithfully paid to the MORmON cult, no questions asked(even going hungry on occasions as they tell you to do), with absolutely NO accountability in return as to where it went and then, when you desperately need help(BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THAT EXTRA $80,000 THEY ROBBED FROM YOU)...THEY WANT A FULL ACCOUNTABILITY OF WHERE YOU'RE SPENDING EVERY CENT(EXCEPT WHAT YOU'VE GIVEN THEM OF COURSE) AND THEN THEY TELL YOU TO SHUT OFF YOUR CABLE, TAKE THE BUS AND TO GO FUCK YOURSELF!!

Did it ever occur to the bastard cult leaders that you're mainly in the situation you're in, because you've donated 10-15% or more of you income for you entire life, right into the black hole of MORmON Inc? OF COURSE NOT!! Imagine if you'd just saved half of that money or even 25% of that money...you'd have a nice savings account to help you out in a tough time.

What do you get for paying tithing? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but a pass to Joe's house of horrors, where you can dress up like a dumb ass, take orders from Satan and at least in the past(changed in 1990 and 2005)...agree to be killed by various gruesome death penalties and have your naked body fondled and touched right next to your genitals and for women, also on your breasts(which would have caused you to receive formal church punishment if you would've done to your girl/boyfriend, what they did to you in the name of "God" and Joseph Smith)

There really should be a class action lawsuit against the cult for the naked touching, which we didn't know about before it happened. Any Lawyers out there reading this interested?

For those who want to know more about the MORmON temple...please visit my good friends site, that has all of the audio and text of all the MORmON temple ceremonies, including a text comparison between the pre-1990 and post 1990 ceremonies. It shows how they actually GUTTED the temple ceremony and took out massive chunks and made gigantic changes and that it wasn't just "minor changes" as The First Presidency claimed and lied about.

Of course no one can talk about it, so everyone just accepted it and bowed their head and said yes, as trained to do in the temple. This is the same temple ceremony that is supposed to "NEVER CHANGE", EVER, without God punishing his cult. What a fraud eh?!!

Now, all of you non-Mormons out there, including Ex-Mormons, can easily learn all of the bullshit handshakes and what to say when you meet Joseph Smith at the Pearly gates and you'll be able to easily get into heaven, since the handshakes are the most important things to prove to Joseph Smith and the "MORmON GOD", that you're a MORmON...LOL...and you didn't even have to pay them 10% of your income to learn them and didn't have to dress up like a dumb ass!!

The ONLY reason MORmON temples even exist today and have been built at such a rapid pace the last few years...is for generating revenue. They are desperate once again for cash(running 90+ days behind on their bills for Jesus' billion dollar malls), just like the late 1800s, early 1900s and the early 1960s, as history is repeating itself once again, as they've gone on this massive building spree, like drunken lunatics. The world is wising up, more educated regarding MORmONISM and all religions(the Internet has a lot to do with that) and they've already saturated their markets.

In order to enter these "houses of horror", you have to be a full tithe payer, which wasn't even required until 1910.(the paragraph mentioning this, is right under the one I mentioned below) In the 1870s, even Brigham Young admitted that he NEVER paid his tithing and said "that neither himself nor anyone else....had ever paid their tithing as it was revealed." When they created a list in the early 1900s of all of the non-tithe payers, the future PRophet John Taylor was surprisingly on the list.(scroll down to the paragraph that has numbers 29 and 30) The paragraph says:

In early 1900 President Snow asked the Presiding Bishop to prepare a list "of non-tithe payers and about 10,000 names were in the record."29 Snow told the apostles that non-payment of tithing "was worse than the non-observance of the Word of Wisdom" prohibitions against tobacco and alcohol. The time had long since passed when general authorities were exempt from the obligation to pay tithing, and one apostle was shocked to learn that Apostle John W. Taylor's "name is on the Non-Tithing List!"30

In April 1910 the church president announced it was necessary to comply with this greatly reduced law of tithing in order to have temple recommends.31(The Mormon Hierarchy-Extensions of Power-D. MICHAEL QUINN)

By the way, the entire chapter 6 from his book, entitled CHURCH FINANCES, is available for everyone to read for free there and I highly recommend that everyone read it and then go buy the awesome book!!

Michael Quinn is an amazing man and absolutely brilliant when it comes to MORmON history and all things MORmONISM and he has created an amazing work...a masterpiece in that book, which is full of indisputable and 100% verifiable evidence that helps expose THE UGLY TRUTH OF MORmONISM to the world. Quinn's book is the MORmON Hierarchy's biggest nightmare!!

THANK YOU MICHAEL QUINN!!

Hmmm...I wonder why the perfect, unchanging "MORmON Jesus" didn't require tithing to enter the temple until 1910 and then changed it to something they "considered more important than the word of wisdom" and a MUST, in order to enter Joe's cult house of DEATH? If MORmONS didn't require tithing to enter the temple, they'd be no different right now than the reorganized church(The Community of Christ now), because they'd have no money and very few temples.

Notice that they have to use threats and the literal FEAR OF GOD and the literal and eternal separation from your family, friends and loved ones, in order to FORCE you to give them your hard-earned money and to sustain their fat asses, sitting on their thrones in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Like Lynn G. Robbins said in his conference talk, that I shared above, with Gordon B. Hinckley and Thomas S. Monson's proud approval:

"One of the FIRST THINGS a bishop must do to HELP THE NEEDY is ask them to PAY THEIR TITHING."

Why should faithful members have to be accountable for their money when they aren't accountable to them?!!

Aren't they supposed to be setting the example...YEAH RIGHT...DAMN HYPOCRITES...DAMN THIEVES!!

As a side note, as I just eluded to above; that statement by Lynn G. Robbins was never corrected(Hinckley was sitting right behind him and had no problem with anything he said and in fact, had pre-approved it beforehand), stands and is still on LDS.org(it was toned down though in the church news report of the talk to "Destitute families should pay their tithing first and then the bishop can provide food and other basic needs.)

It's truly sickening!!

Mormon Inc. is clearly, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a CORPORATION and a CULT, not a church and I rest my case!!

WAKE UP PEOPLE AND SMELL THE FRAUD!!

Samuel the Utahnite

The Missionaries Over At Mormon.Org, Are Getting A Little Upset These Days When Confronted By The "Real Truth." Remember Guys...Slow To Anger!!

I've taken the time over the last week, to confront a couple more missionaries or volunteers, or whatever they hell they are, over at Mormon.Org. The one I just talked to, was a complete asshole and just cut me right off, when I accused him/her of lying, which they were. Here is a link to the other chat I had, in case you missed it.

Gee, wouldn't a representative of Jesus Christ be kinder and more loving and want to see why I thought they were lying and then express to me why they weren't lying, despite all of the evidence showing otherwise? I guess not!! By the way, the name of the person I was talking to was Adrian. Anyone else have a run-in with the friendly Adrian?

How much longer will this charade last(the cat's out of the bag dumb asses), as they must be getting bombarded by ex/anti-Mormons every single day. How many real people are actually going there to talk to them.

It must be the same bullshit day after day, being confronted with the shocking truth, then not answering our questions and telling us to read the Book of Mormon; because if it's true, Joseph Smith was a Prophet, the church is true and nothing we are asking them even matters, which is exactly what they tell me and everyone else that ventures in there.

Anyway, I'll post the 2 transcripts below so that you can all read them. The first one is about Dallin H. Oaks saying that they can't Ever criticize their leaders, even if the criticism is true and I then worked in Mountain Meadows Massacre and his admission that "without a doubt" Mormon leaders committed the slaughter.

The second one is about how they claim they don't condemn other religions, while openly condemning them from the First Vision forward, especially in the Book of Mormon. Adrian actually denied it again, right in the chat...OOPS!!

These guys know they are lying, when the truth is so obvious and clear; but they just think we are all idiots and will easily believe their den of lies and want to join the cult tomorrow.

Also, the Mormon Hierarchy has disabled the cut and paste option that used to be there in the chats, so now, all you have to do, is go up to File and click on Save as, and save it as a text file. You will have to do some editing, but at least we can still post our conversations with these brainwashed Mormons, for all the world to read.

Conversation #1:

Speak With a Missionary-Thank you for taking the time to chat with us and for your interest in the Church. Please know that you are welcome to worship with us any time, request a visit from Mormon missionaries, order a Book of Mormon, or continue to browse our Web site to learn more answers to life's greatest questions.

Addie: Hello! What can I do for you today?

Samuel: Yeah, I was curious to know more about the Mormon faith, after watching the PBS documentary called the Mormons.

Addie: Yes. That was an interesting program. What were some of your questions/concerns?

Samuel: Well, I was wondering if you are ever able to criticize your leaders and if you are punished when you do? They talked about all of the intellectuals that were excommunicated for speaking out and that is very troubling to me. So, are you allowed to criticize your leaders, especially the Apostles or Prophet?

Samuel: From what I've discovered, Dallin H. Oaks is one of your Prophets and he said the following:

Samuel: Sorry, go ahead and then I'll post the quote by Oaks

Samuel: Are you still there? (I'd waited like 5 minutes with no response at all and there was at least a 2 minute gap after almost every question I asked them.)

Addie: We believe that when a prophet speaks he does so by revelation and speaks the word and will of the Lord. The members of our Church sustain our leaders, which means committing to support them in their decisions. Also,

Samuel: So, they can never EVER be wrong? They are perfect and infallible? Aren't they imperfect men, just like any other man? That's what I've always believed, that no one is perfect...

Addie: in that process, they have the opportunity to voice objections and oppositions to those leaders. However, there is a difference between voicing objections and speaking against established doctrine

Addie: Prophets are not perfect.

Samuel: So, you can criticize them publicly, if you feel they are wrong or out of line, without any problems?

Addie: However, when they speak as directed by revelation, which is not everything they say, we believe it is the word of God

Samuel: If Prophets are not perfect, then anyone should be able to criticize them in my opinion, including Mormons themselves, right?

Samuel: How do you or does the world know when they are speaking by revelation or just as common men that make mistakes?

Addie: We are encouraged to pray about their words when they speak. Always, they invite us to know for ourselves and asking the Lord if what they speak is the truth. They never ask us to blindly obey.

Addie: Also, they will usually inform us of their opinions

Addie: For this reason, I personally have never found reason to criticize them

Samuel: So, let's say that they are not speaking by revelation and say something that isn't true? Can you openly criticize them for it with no fear of punishment?

Samuel: So, it's all based on what someone feels, whether it's true or not? What if you feel it's revelation and someone else doesn't?

Samuel: They don't ask you to blindly obey? But what if you pray about what they've said and you feel that it's wrong? Then what? Is that a problem?

Addie: When prophet is speaking by revelation, they make it clear that revelation is the source.

Samuel: Here's my question again; if you feel, after praying, that the Prophet or Apostles are wrong in what they are saying; can you openly criticize them for it without being punished?

Samuel: Do they allow you to speak your mind, even if it's against what they are saying? You said they aren't perfect, therefore they could screw up and make mistakes, teach false things, etc, right?

Addie: Why would you want to be part of the church if you feel that the prophets and apostles are wrong?

Samuel: Well, you earlier admitted that they aren't perfect, therefore they could be wrong. Either they are perfect and infallible or they aren't, right?

Addie: I know, from personal experience that these prophets are men of God. I trust their judgment and accept that they are not perfect. But I believe that I can trust in the counsels that God gives to them.

Samuel: I'm just trying to understand this, I really am. I have a lot of friends that are Mormon and they seem to blindly obey, saying that their leaders can never make a mistake or lead them astray in anyway and that if they try, God will literally remove them, is this true?

Addie: The most important thing that we can do is to seek

Samuel: But you still haven't answered my main question; can you criticize them, ever?

Samuel: even if they are wrong?

Addie: God's guidance through prayer to know if the prophets are acting according to the will of God.

Samuel: By admitting that they are human, they can make mistakes and can you then state openly how you feel about those human mistakes and errors, thus criticizing them?

Samuel: So, you do follow them blindly?

Samuel: Why pray to understand them or know what they are saying is true, if they can't ever teach anything wrong? It seems very redundant to me to pray about something that you already know can't possibly be wrong, ever?

Samuel: Look, here's the quote from Oaks:

Addie: Samuel I'd love to answer your questions, but it's tough to answer four at a Time.

Samuel: "It's wrong to criticize leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true."

Addie: Can I answer them one at a time?

Samuel: 4 at a time? I've been asking you the same exact question over and over, without you being willing to answer it. Again, can you openly criticize leaders of the Mormon church? I'll answer it for you, since you refuse to, and the answer is...no, because Dallin H. Oaks says you can't, even if the criticism is true and that's what troubles me greatly as an investigator and someone trying to learn more about your church.

Addie: I'm glad that you've got sincere desires to learn.

Samuel: I consider myself to be an intellectual and inquisitive person, therefore not being able to ever object to anything these imperfect men say would be hell for me and would take away my freedom of expression and thought.

Addie: One thing that Jesus taught us in Matthew Chapter 6 is that we are not to cast judment on others whether they are prophets or not. We can disagree with views that they have, but criticism is really not necessary; that is a form of judgment

Samuel: I found that comment by Oaks to be so offensive, that I about fell off of my chair. It's like he thinks that he is God or Jesus Christ and cannot ever be criticized, even it the criticism is true. Those are not the words of man who sees himself as imperfect and that's not free agency or freedom at all.

Samuel: Would you ever state Addie that no one should ever criticize you, even if the criticism is true? Do you understand why this troubles me, when earlier you admitted that they aren't perfect, yet they say that they are beyond any criticism? It seems very contradictory to me in every way.

Addie: I understand perfectly. It's alright to express your concern with those whom you are concerned with. But that issue is between you and the person you disagree with. I welcome counsel and constructive criticism, but there isn't a point in pointing out.

Addie: weakness publicly whether prophets or not.

Samuel: Also, when talking about Mountain Meadows Massacre, Dallin H. Oaks said that:

"I have no doubt, on the basis of what I have studied and learned, that Mormons, including local leaders of our church, were prime movers in that terrible episode and participated in the killing."

Samuel: So, if you disagree with the Prophet or Dallin H. Oaks for example, can you go sit down with him and discuss it in private? Do they allow any member to meet with them?

Addie: They are always welcome to letters and other forms of communication.

Samuel: So, can you publicly criticize the Prophet with "constructive criticism?"

Addie: Can I ask, what do you understand a prophet to be?

Samuel: So, let me ask you this; Dallin H. Oaks openly admits that Mormon leaders killed all of those poor people at Mountain Meadows, but you aren't allowed to criticize them for the horrible murders they committed? According to Dallin H. Oaks, even if they murder innocent men, women and children, as he has now admitted to, you CAN'T criticize them...that's insane!

Samuel: He also hopes that the Lord will forgive these murderous Mormon leaders, when I believe murder is the unforgivable and unpardonable.

Samuel: I believe a Prophet is a man of God, who speaks and acts for God

Addie: Samuel, I don't feel that you're being very sincere about listening to theanswers to your questions. Those acts of those men who committed that horrible act were not endorsed by the prophet and when he heard of their acts he was very disappointed...

Samuel: Disappointed? 120 people were slaughtered by Mormon leadership and he was disappointed? I just don't know how to overcome these major concerns, as all my friends are trying to get me to take the missionary discussions and get baptized. That's why I'm here today, to see if I can resolve these concerns with you...

Addie: with them and they were excommunicated.

Addie: The real question you need to ask is to God.

Addie: If these men speak and act for God is there reason to criticize?

Samuel: So why did Oaks say that Mormon leaders were the "prime movers" and "participated in the killings?"

Addie: He was speaking of the local leaders, not of the prophets (so like a bishop). We do not consider such men to be prophets.

Samuel: So, it's okay to publicly criticize a Bishop then? Only John D. Lee was executed or excommunicated for those crimes and there were over 100 men committing the murderers.

Addie: Do you believe that God can answer prayers?

Samuel: Okay, let me ask you this, as I've been researching this Mountain Meadows tragedy....was John D. Lee guilty of murdering these poor people or not?

Samuel:I don't believe God has to answer questions that are already answered by the facts and truth, nor do I have to ask him if they answers are already obvious and clear.

Addie: I understand your concerns, but I know that all the questions you have will be answered by a much simpler question. "Is the Book of Mormon true?"

Samuel: What?

Samuel: Mountain Meadows Massacre is discussed in the Book of Mormon?

Samuel: I had no idea...

Samuel: What part?

Addie: If the Book of Mormon is true then the church is true and so are the prophets. That act was not an act of the Church, but of misguided men, and as such really doesn't effect a person's testimony of the doctrines of the church.

Samuel: I discovered that John D. Lee was also sealed to Brigham Young too, which is strange. Back then, men sealed themselves to each other in the Mormon temple?

Addie: If you find out that the Book of MOrmon is true you will still understand that this was a horrible act that should never have taken place, but you will also know that it was not an act of God, and that the church, which tried to stop it, is of God.

Addie: I would invite you to pray and ask god of if the Book of Mormon is true with a sincere heart. Will you do that?

Samuel: So, if the Book of Mormon is true, then the Mormon church is perfect and true and has never, ever made any mistakes and their leaders are infallible and can never, ever be criticized(even if the criticism is true), and they have never made any mistakes?

Samuel: Was John D. Lee a murderer?

Addie: Samuel, will you pray with a sincere heart?

Samuel: Answer my last question please

Samuel: I'm only asking you about John D. Lee, because I don't know if you are aware or not, that in 1961, the Mormon Hierarchy fully restored his blessings and forgave him for all of those awful and tragic murders he committed, of men women, children, even babies...and that also shocks me and troubles my soul deeply. Why would they do this?

Addie: I really don't know enough about that event to give you a difinitive answer, but I do know that this church is Jesus Christ's. If you will pray with a sincere heart and faith, you will find the same.

Addie: I hope you have a great evening.

Samuel: John D. Lee was the adopted son of Brigham Young, through their sealing together in the Salt Lake City temple and he was executed for his crime of mass murder and they've now forgiven him. Why?

Samuel: Praying won't answer these questions and you never told me if Mountain Meadows is discussed in the Book of Mormon, as you seemed to indicate.

Samuel: Do you not care at all about facts or evidence?

Samuel: So, is the Mormon church the one and only true church on earth?

Addie: I care about the spirit of God. I know the Book of Mormon is true and as such, I know that the Church of Jesus Christ is the only true and living church that is guided by God himself on the earth. If you simply find that out the other questions won't...matter anymore.

Samuel: Is my church really an abomination, with false doctrines and corrupt professors, as Joseph Smith clearly indicated. You are the only people on earth that have the truth? Everyone else is guided by Satan?

Addie: Please pray. I know you'll get an answer.

Samuel: The other questions won't matter anymore? Are you serious?

Addie then cut me off and abruptly ended the conversation, refusing to answer any of my questions, insisting that the only thing that mattered, was the Book of Mormon and that "If you simply find that out that it's true, then the other questions won't matter anymore."

Now, those are the true fruits of Mormonism folks. Facts, truth, logic and reality mean nothing and all that matters is that you believe the Book of Mormon is true, end of story, if it's true, it's all true, Joseph Smith was a Prophet and the church is true, and nothing else matters.

Conversation #2:

Speak With a Missionary-Thank you for taking the time to chat with us and for your interest in the Church. Please know that you are welcome to worship with us any time, request a visit from Mormon missionaries, order a Book of Mormon, or continue to browse our Web site to learn more answers to life's greatest questions.

Referral Support: Hello, My name is Adrian how can I help you?

Mike: Hey Adrian, where are you at?

Mike: Are you an actual missionary from the MTC?

Referral Support: were are in Utah

Mike: I figured that, but are you a student, a missionary, or what? I've heard that
the folks on here are from the MTC or BYU?

Referral Support: I am a member of the Church.

Mike: Uh yeah, I figured that too...I mean what are the odds that the Mormon church would put somebody on here that wasn't even a Mormon? So, I guess you can't tell me what you are, if you're a missionary, student or whatever, which is fine.

Mike: I just wondered where I was talking to, if you were in Salt lake, Provo, etc, but obviously you aren't allowed to share that information with the public.Well, hopefully you can help me out anyway and will be more forthcoming on my other questions...

Referral Support: you are correct, I am not to share that kind of information.

Referral Support: I will do my best to answer yor questions

Mike: Sounds a little paranoid to me, since it was just a general question, but okay, hopefully they'll allow you to speak freely regarding other things.

Mike: I've always heard how secret the Mormon church is, especially regarding the temple, and I guess it's true.

Referral Support: Ok mike , I dont want to give you information about myself that is all

Mike: Anyway, I've been Catholic all my life and since moving to Utah, I've become interested in learning more about Mormons

Mike: Yeah, because I might track you down, right? LOL

Mike: whatever man

Mike: But I've read in Mormon Doctrine, which was written by one of your Apostles and also I've been reading in the book of Mormon

Referral Support: I dont want. it is simple , I am not goint to ask about your personal information.

Referral Support: ok

Mike: and it looks like you guys have really issues with Catholics or any other religion

Referral Support: we dont

Mike: Looks like we got off on a very bad foot

Mike: You don't?

Referral Support: I was catholic

Referral Support: all my family is catholic, I love them

(For some reason at this point, we were suddenly disconnected. I quickly logged back in and happened to get Adrian again and so we continued on with out conversation for a little while longer. Adrian had no idea what happened and it certainly wasn't anything I did. It must have been that Mormon God, intervening to help his servant and representative...LOL.)

Referral Support: Hi mike, I dont know what happend

Referral Support: sorry we got disconected

Mike: Yeah, me either...it just disconnected...I thought you hung up on me

Referral Support: no I didnt

Referral Support: ok , so do you have some questions

Referral Support: ?

Mike: Anyway, like I was saying, it looks to me like you guys have serious issues with Catholics or any other religion

Mike: Maybe you can help me understand somethings

Referral Support: okay

Mike: First of all, do you believe that your church is "the one and only true church" on the planet earth?

Referral Support: yes I do.

Mike: I believe the First Vision of Joseph Smith says that Jesus said, that all other churches are abominations with corrupt professors(preachers) and wrong doctrines, or something like that...

Referral Support: they are not guided by God.

Mike: So, if you have "the one and only truth", what does that say about my religion and the religions of most of my friends and family? Why do we have to become Mormon?

Mike: So, you are telling me that my religion is not guided by God? By what authority do you tell me this?

Mike: You realize that's offensive, right?

Referral Support: well, that is what I believe (No apologies of course)

Referral Support: dont take offence on that

Mike: It's funny how Mormons and your leaders always say that they never cut down any other religion...but you clearly do, by saying that you have the only truth on earth and that all the rest are abominations, corrupt and wrong.

Mike: Yeah, but your church believes that everyone needs to be a Mormon, in this life or the next, right? That's why you baptize dead people.

Mike: So, if Mormonism is "the one and only true church" on earth, then all the other religions are indeed false, right?

Referral Support: We are the only true Church, I know that. we have prophets and apostles that recieve revelation from God. All other Churches are full of great people, great feelings and amazing teachings , but lack authority to act in God's name

Mike: Do you believe that Satan runs my church and that it's of the Devil?

Mike: You believe this why? (This was an answer to their last comment)

Referral Support: no, I dont think so.

Mike: Aren't you just making the same claim that most religions make?

Referral Support: well you tell me what do you believe?

Mike: You believe in the Book of Mormon, right? Joseph said it's the most correct book on earth or something like that didn't he?

Referral Support: what do you believe about the LDS church and your church?

Mike: I don't believe that you have to belong to one particular church in order to be saved...I believe it's based on the kind of person you are and how you treat others, not whose church you call home.
Referral Support: well you said you were catholic, and that is not what they believe

Mike: Well, we are talking about what you believe and preach, not what I believe and in the Catholic church, we don't go around openly condemning other churches, calling them the church of the devil and abominations, whores of all the earth and Mothers of Harlots and we try to be kind to everyone.

Referral Support: but what is your doctrine?

Mike: So, you tell me what my doctrine is, since you are so well informed about it

Referral Support: you certanly believe exactly what you are criticizing from the LDS church

Mike: That unless you are a Catholic, you're screwed? That's what I believe?

Referral Support: the catholic Church to be the only true church.

Mike: Well, at least we don't preach that Mormons and all other churches are the church of Satan and the whore of all the earth

Referral Support: we dont prach about anybody else, We actually dont preach about others at all. (Can you believe that shit? I can't believe they actually said this? Now tell me that they didn't know they were outright lying when they made this statement!!)

Mike: Still there?(There was a very long pause before their last comment and this comment of mine, as they both popped up at the same time.) You believe in the Book of Mormon, don't you? Well, it greatly insults me and any other religion out there, yet your church claims that we are all evil

Mike: Saying you don't preach about other religions is an outright lie and you know it

Referral Support: Mike , is not a lie, and please remember what your religion claims before you criticize the LDS church for what it claims

1 Nephi 14:10.....Behold there are save two churches only, one is the church of the lamb of God and the other is the church of the DEVIL, wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the MOTHER OF ABOMINATIONS; and she is the WHORE of all the earth.

1 Nephi 13:34...wherefore, after I have visited them in judgment, and smitten them by the hand of the Gentiles, and after the Gentiles do stumble exceedingly, because of the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that ABOMINABLE church, which is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS, saith the Lamb--I will be merciful unto the Gentiles in that day, insomuch that I will bring forth unto them, in mine own power, much of my gospel, which shall be plain and precious, saith the Lamb.

Referral Support: Take care

Mike: Where are you going?!! I wasn't done...

==========

That was the abrupt end of the chat. I guess they can't handle "the real truth", can they? Hypocritical jackasses!!

I look forward to everyone's comments on these chats.

Samuel the Utahnite

David A Bednar Picked A Peck Of Pickled Peep Stones..David A. Bednar's "PARABLE OF THE PICKLE." It's Touching And Guaranteed To Make Your Bosom Burn!!

(***Update***-As most of you know, my journey to the "REAL TRUTH", began after reading an article in the Salt Lake City Weekly(called Whitewash), with the help of fired BYU Professor Darron Smith, that exposed the racism of Mormonism, specifically Brigham Young. Now, thanks to the reference and comment today from Demon of Kolob(Kent), I can refer everyone to yet another great article in The Salt Lake City Weekly, that exposes all the details of the true Mormon "Pickle Conspiracy"...LOL!!

The contents are truly shocking, so I strongly caution everyone!! Thank you Bednar A. Picklehead for finally revealing to the world, the secret but precious and touching "parable of the pickle." I'm sure that countless souls all around the world have been deeply touched(after being dipped in Mormon blessed and consecrated Salt brine of course), with salty tears streaming down their faces. Stealing a line from the article, I think it's safe to say that now everyone has the right and duty, when they meet Bednar in person, to ask the question “Are you glad to see me, or is that a pickle in your pocket?”

From one pickle to another, this classic General Conference moment was truly crunchy and Vlastastic.***)

Well, it was close folks, but after an initial and preliminary count, it looks like pickle is the big winner, by a nose, just edging out cucumber 16-14, in the amount of times David A. Bednar used both words in his latest talk that he called "The Parable Of The Pickle." It appears that Cucumber has asked for a re-count and is pretty pissed off about the whole situation. How old is David A. Bednar anyways...like 5? How old does he think we are, like 2?

This had to be the dumbest, stupidest talk I've ever heard in a General Conference and Bednar thought he was some freaking, clever genius of some sort or even better, Jesus Christ reincarnated in 2007, speaking to all of us in "parables", because we are all too dumb to understand his words straight up. Yes, thank the Mormon God for the "parable of the pickle", or none of us would have had a clue what the guy was even talking about...LOL!! This talk is another instant classic.

I mean come on Bednar, "The Parable Of The Pickle?" Are you shitting me?!! The best part was when he asked at the beginning that the spirit of God be with him and us, as he spoke about "PICKLES and CUCUMBERS?" LOL!!I was actually doing quite well watching all the conference talks and actually staying awake, even with their hypnotic, rehearsed, monotone voices, until Bednar said PICKLE for the 10th time. That was when I passed out from grief and didn't wake up for like 2 hours, as I dreamed all about PICKLES...LOL!! I actually thought Bednar had become one and was an actual PICKLE, thus the inspiration for the above picture.

I mean has it really come down to this; speaking about pickles and cucumbers and comparing what they go through in their spiritual and temporal life, to human beings and what we must go through in the Mormon Church. So basically, all members start out as cucumbers and then are cleansed, soaked in a salty solution and turned into cleansed pickles?

My most famous post regarding Bednar, which ranks very high on Google searches, called him "The Kiss ASS Of The Century", which was even found to be too offensive for the angry Mormon Curtain and a post that was subsequently removed; which led me to ask for all of my posts to be removed since there is far worse all over the place over there and it was hypocritical and just a personal dislike and disdain for me, which I wasn't aware even existed.

I was just simply speaking the truth as I always do, with lots of passion and facts, which some just can't handle. Apparently my blog and Dr. Shades Mormon Discussion board, are about the only places I've found on the entire Internet, where I won't be censored or have my comments deleted. At least I have somewhere to freely express myself.

So now, I will become even more offensive, piss off even more people and officially call Bednar the "dumbass of the century" or the "picklehead of the century" and yes, most likely the future Mormon Prophet, if he can just out live all of the other old farts/frauds. Yeah, I know, many of you will probably be highly offended again, that I would dare speak this way about a "holy Apostle of God", in such a disrespectful way, but hey, it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it, with no apologies.

The Guy is an idiot, arrogant, condescending and acts holier than thou in every speech he gives. He gives every talk, as if he's preparing for his future Prophet-hood, building his legacy and he's a pompous ass, plain and simple.

Did anyone else notice that when he first told everyone that he was going to be talking about how a cucumber becomes a pickle, that people actually laughed their "polite Mormon laughter", because they thought the dumbass was just joking and trying to be funny? Sadly, I guess the joke was on them, as he was deadly serious about talking about cucumbers and pickles and went on to mention the words a combined 30 times...wow, what inspiration!!

I'll end with this bit of inspiration, directly from Satan himself(after I punched his time clock of course), that came to me in a miraculous vision:

David Bednar picked a peck of pickled peep stones; A peck of pickled peep stones David Bednar picked; If David Bednar picked a peck of pickled peep stones,where's the peck of pickled peep stones David Bednar picked?

That is the real question my friends and if anyone of you TBMS out there knows the answer, please let us all know, as we'll be anxiously awaiting...LOL!!

LONG LIVE "THE PARABLE OF THE PICKLE!!"

Samuel the Utahnite