"I have no doubt, (based on)what I have studied..that Mormons, including local leaders of our church, were prime movers/participated in the killing."

MP3 File

This is the audio clip of Dallin H. Oaks, from "The Mormons", declaring:

"I have no doubt, on the basis of what I have studied and learned, that Mormons, including local leaders of our church, were prime movers in that terrible episode and participated in the killing."

He then also says:

“I pray that he(The Lord) can find a way to forgive those who took such a terrible action against their fellow beings.”

In reality, the Church has already completely forgiven John D. Lee, the only man ever held accountable, who was executed for the crime, while over 100 other men were never held accountable by Brigham Young or anyone else, due to their “vow of silence”, which would result in death if broken.

In 1961, the Mormon First Presidency reinstated all of John D. Lee's blessings, including his temple blessings, meaning that they, the Mormon Hierarchy and Prophet, have indeed completely forgiven John D. Lee, as if he did nothing at all and his sins are now white as snow.

"For more than a hundred years, the families of John D. Lee have borne the opprobrium of the massacre alone. For that reason, they have welcomed every effort to probe the question; certainly no truth could be worse than the stories to which they were subjected. Now they have special cause to rejoice, for on April 20, 1961, the First Presidency and the Council of Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints met in joint council, and: 'It was the action of the Council after considering all the facts available that authorization be given for the reinstatement to membership and former blessings [temple marriages] to John D. Lee.' Word of this was sent out to members of the family, and on May 8 and 9, the necessary ordinances were performed in the Salt Lake Temple. A complete record is in the files of the Latter-day Saints Genealogical Society." (Mountain Meadows Massacre, p. 223)

It's hard to understand this reinstating of John D. Lee's complete blessings, when Joseph Smith and Mormon doctrine clearly teaches that Murder is unforgivable, let alone MASS MURDER. Gee, I wonder how they explain this?

I beg all TBMS and Mormon Apologists, to enlighten all of us evil ex-Mormons, as to how this can be. Doesn't this contradict your beloved Joseph Smith and his teachings?

Joseph Smith supposedly received the following revelation from Jesus Christ:

SECTION 132

27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.

To further support what was recorded in the D&C, Joseph Smith also clearly taught that murderers cannot have eternal life, cannot be saved, cannot be baptized for the remission of sins and that they will all literally go to hell, which must be outer darkness, since hell is not a Mormon glory.

Joseph Smith said:

“A murderer for instance, one that sheds innocent blood, cannot have forgiveness.” (Teachings Of The Prophet Joseph Smith-Page 339)

I also hope that since, Dallin H. Oaks and the Mormon Hierarchy, have now finally admitted that “Mormons, including local leaders of our church, were prime movers in that terrible episode and participated in the killing”, that this will free up the families of those who were brutally executed that day at Mountain Meadows, to finally be able to file a class action lawsuit against the Mormon church and the current Hierarchy.

This statement by Dallin H. Oaks, admitting fault, also contradicts Hinckley, who said the following on Sept 11, 1999:

"No one can explain what happened in these meadows 142 years ago. We may speculate, but we do not know. We do not understand it. We cannot comprehend it. We can only say that the past is long since gone."

and

"That which we have done here must never be construed as an acknowledgment of the part of the church of any complicity in the occurrences of that fateful day."



It looks like Hinckley, the current Mormon Prophet and Dallin H. Oaks, current Mormon Apostle, need to have a private meeting and discuss the descrpencies that exist their public statements.

Also, based on the other comment by Dallin H. Oaks, which I just posted the other day, clearly stating that, “It's wrong to criticize leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true”, this means that even though he has now admitted that church leaders "were prime movers in that terrible episode and participated in the killing” of around 120 innocent men, women and children; you cannot criticize them for it and in fact, he probably wants you to follow his lead and pray that they will all be forgiven, just like they’ve forgiven John D. Lee.

Samuel the Utahnite

Mormons Teach That You Are Better Off "DEAD" Than To Have Any Degree Of Sexual Relations Before Marriage!!

Now, to follow up my disturbing Temple Post from yesterday, I thought I'd share another very disturbing and very evil Church Doctrine. By the way, if you go to the Church museum in Salt Lake City, Utah, you will find a shrine to President Kimball with his book, "The Miracle of Forgiveness" taking center stage. It says something like, "this book has helped so many people around the world", etc. Of course it fails to mention the people that committed suicide after reading it and feeling completely worthless and hopeless.

In my opinion, that book, "The Miracle of Forgiveness", is one of the most evil books ever written, especially within the Mormon Church. I believe very strongly that that one book has done much more damage than it has ever done good. It has destroyed lives and families and continues to do so. It is the standard response from the Bishop to any horrible,sinning, fornicator or masturbator. It is nothing to be proud of and should be taken out of print and removed from display in the Churches Museum. The book is pure evil!!

I'm not sure who the last story came from but I found it somewhere on the Internet several months back and thought it was worth sharing. It is a perfect example of the fear mongering that the LDS Church participates in on a daily basis. This "better off dead" teaching is pure evil and the whole world should know what this damn Mormon cult has been teaching through the years and still is, by recommending such an evil book for people to read after committing some moral sin. It is a tragedy!! How could this so called "Church" teach something so hurtful and so evil. How do the General Authorities wake up in the morning and look at themselves in the mirror. It is becoming clearer and clearer to me that these men must not have any conscience whatsoever and are evil men destroying lives on a daily basis.

By the way, they have never rescinded these comments, never apologized for them and therefore stand by them to this day. Any doubt that this is an evil cult?

Here's what church leaders have said about death being better than experiencing sex before marriage:

"You will recall Alma’s teaching his son Corianton that unchastity is the most serious offense there is in the sight of God, except for murder or denying the Holy Ghost. (See Alma 39:5.) President Clark, in a conference address in October 1938, said: 'Chastity is fundamental to our life and to our civilization. If the race becomes unchaste, it will perish. Immorality has been basic to the destruction of mighty nations of the past; it will bring to dust the mighty nations of the present. You young people, may I directly entreat you to be chaste. Please believe me when I say that chastity is worth more than life itself. This is the doctrine my parents taught me; it is truth. It is better to die chaste than to live unchaste. The salvation of your very souls is concerned in this.' Now, my dear friends, we know there is nothing new in what we have said. These things are time-tested; they are true. To this we testify."
-LDS First Presidency Message "We Believe in Being Chaste," Ensign, Sept. 1981, 3

"Loss of virtue is too great a price to pay even for the preservation of ones life - better dead clean, than alive unclean. Many is faithful the Latter-day Saint parent who has sent a son or a daughter on a mission or otherwise out into the world with the direction: 'I would rather have you come back in a pine box with your virtue than return alive without it.'"
Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine (all editions), page 124.

President David O. McKay is quoted in Kimball's book as follows:
" . . . Your virtue is worth more than your life. Please young folk, preserve your virtue even if you lose your lives. Do not tamper with sin . . . do not permit yourselves to be led into temptation."

Heber J. Grant is also quoted in Kimball's book:
"...There is no true Latter-day Saint who would not rather bury a son or daughter than to have him or her lose his or her chastity -- realizing that chastity is of more value than anything else in all the world."

Later in the same book, President Kimball again addresses the matter of Chastity with the elsewhere mentioned paragraph:

"Also far-reaching is the effect of loss of chastity. Once given OR TAKEN OR STOLEN it can NEVER BE REGAINED. Even in forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. IF SHE HAS NOT COOPERATED and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a MORE FAVORABLE position. There is no condemnation where there is NO Voluntary participation. It is BETTER TO DIE in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle." (emphasis mine)

This "better dead than.." teaching has been around a long time in Mormon Seminary and Institute.

I feel sorry for the ignorant Mormons who believe it.

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It was during the plane crash simulation. That long funky room with the accordion doors between the chapel and the gym represented the plane. The bishop announced the "plane" just crashed and made us think really hard about where we would end up that night if it were true. Then they sent the youth through the telestial kingdom, (the junior Sunday school room), the terrestrial kingdom, (the relief society/multipurpose room), and finally, voilà!, the celestial kingdom (the chapel).

We were told the telestial kingdom was as far as we could progress if we had had sex, and that our parents would rather have us DEAD than for us to lose our chastity. Girls were told to fight rapists to their DEATHS rather than lose their virginity.

In the terrestrial kingdom, we were told which lesser sins were allowed that would land us there.

In the celestial kingdom, our parents and families were secretly waiting for us for a surprise testimony meeting. That was how it would be--joining our loved ones in the CK if we didn't sin. Many tears were shed and wayward girls and boys were set straight and narrow again.

I remember being scared to death because I was going to end up in the telestial kingdom for masturbating.

Samuel the Utahnite