Fanaticism, Blanket Condemnation And A Saint Called Eric Hoffman!! Eric Says, "As long as you believe Joseph Smith...you will lose your soul forever!!
Just to fully quote Eric Hoffman, at the end of his "living truth podcast #3", he said, word for word:
"As long as you believe Joseph Smith and believe his lies, you will lose your soul forever."
And:
"Believing this false doctrine that Satan taught and that Joseph Smith believed and that Brigham Young carried out to all the rest of the Prophets, will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven forever. These are dangerous grounds folks; to believe in Mormonism, it really is........
Today I received an Email from a person named Martin, who has had personal correspondence with Eric and his preacher buddy, over on Eric's new website and Martin has now been officially banned, for disagreeing with Eric and his preacher and for using an occasional bad word, which Eric uses all the time in his personal, "Not doing a Christian podcast or blogging" life.
Martin basically called Eric and his gang out and they couldn't and wouldn't respond, couldn't take the heat, so they booted him. So much for Eric saying and basically pleading, "Please Email me, leave a comment, if I have said or taught anything that is wrong or false, please let me know, I want to hear from you...everyone." So he begs for people to call him out or correct him and when they do, like Martin has done, he boots your ass right out of there, after grilling you on your motives, purpose, etc.
In any case, Martin entitled this article he wrote, "Fanaticism and a Saint called Eric Hoffman" and I added a few things to the title of my choosing. I'm giving Martin a forum and place to post his comments, since Eric will not allow him to post them there any longer. Again, Eric's hypocrisy shines bright, as he complains about how awful and judgmental Mormons are, how they excommunicate them, toss them aside, etc, while he is busy booting anyone out of his forums, that just disagrees with him. What a joke!! What a hypocrite!!
Just so everyone knows; anyone that is booted from Eric Hoffman's website, for simply having a different opinion(or for saying damn, hell or shit), that have something they want to say about him or his words and condemnations, are welcome to have me post them here, for all to read. Eric can shut you guys down in his little pathetic Christian world of condemnation and his little website, but he cannot silence you here and let me know if I can be of any help, to make sure that he doesn't silence you and that you are able to get your words out there.
Anyway, here is the unedited, word for word article by Martin:
Fanaticism and hypocrisy:
Mt 23:24-25-"Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."
Mt 15:18- "Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man."
In his time, Jesus met many people who were zealous in their strife for religious purity. However, Jesus did not agree to their zeal. Instead of striving for what is right and just, the Pharisees stressed things which are really unimportant. Instead of caring about purifying their hearts, they just strived for outward cleanliness. Being fanatic about unimportant things, while neglecting what is really important, is called hypocrisy.
I experienced one example of modern day hypocrisy recently, when I started to listen to Eric Hoffman's podcast, "Living truth podcast". I am a Protestant, not an LDS, but I was and am interested in Mormonism, as it can show how a religion develops from its beginnings; we have many good external sources about how the LDS faith evolved from its foundation in 1830, but we only have fragmented and mostly unobjective sources for the beginnings of Christianity.
When I listened to Eric's podcast, I was quite startled. On the one hand, he used many arguments Samuel also used in his podcast, but on the other hand, he always contrasted this with an idealized and white-washed version of Christianity which is scientifically untrue. As I have studied the origin of the Bible and Bible history from a scientific perspective a bit, I was amazed how biased his view on the Bible was.
Indeed, when I studied Mormonism, I recognized that most problems faced in this faith (and which e.g. Samuel complains about in his podcast) are also present in Christianity. Archaeological problems, problems with immorality of church officials, the general involvement of Christianity in wars, torture, human rights violations, etc. In many of these aspects, Christianity is not any better when compared to Mormonism.
However, as I listened to Samuel's podcast, I recognized that the LDS faith really has some aspects which are troubling, especially the psychological manipulation of its members, e.g. when men are brainwashed from childhood on to go on a mission. Samuel's podcast, at least in my point of view, has two main goals:
To point out the psychological manipulations and other injustices the Mormon church performs (he uses words like "cult" etc. to refer to this manipulative abuse of LDS members), thus also helping current members to recognize these topics; the other objective is to work things out for himself, for the experience that one has been betrayed almost one's whole life, by a group which one holds so dear is a great shock, which has to be mentally processed. I think the foul language he sometimes used is just an expression of this anger. In this point, his podcast is also "therapeutic" for himself.
Back to my main topic, the Pharisee Eric Hoffman:
Eric's approach is very different. Instead of pointing out the negative "cult attributes" of the LDS faith or working on his personal life story, Eric's only aim is to convert LDS members to his own notion of Christianity. However, as he does so, he develops the very same negative attributes he attacks in the Mormon church.
Absolute truth claim:
Eric claims to have THE correct interpretation of the Bible. When I presented him the fact that the Bible has numerous different interpretations and that indeed modern science often can show that the Biblical texts are not literally/historically true, but meant symbolically, Eric got extremely nervous and tried to change the topic as fast as possible, accusing me of bad motives, asking me why I was posting on his blog,etc. He did so because he could not answer my questions or refute my claims.
In this aspect, Eric Hoffman does not differ an inch from the absolute truth claim of the LDS church. He seems to believe that he is some kind of Pope. By doing a bit of reading in some conservative Christian commentaries on the Bible, he thinks he knows everything about the historical background necessary for understanding the Bible. The fact that he chooses the commentary and thus influences his own image of the Bible is not recognized by him.
Intolerance:
When Joseph Smith claimed that God told him all other denominations were an abomination in God's sight, Eric thinks this to be a big scandal.
However, Eric is amazingly intolerant towards the LDS faith. The statement that they will "lose their souls forever" is, in my personal opinion, totally unacceptable, in every moral regard.
And this is where the quotes from Jesus step in:
Eric claims that the denomination you belong to and the theological details you believe in, determine whether you get into heaven or hell.
It is not important how you act, because it only depends on Eric's personal image of God, whose grace can save you.
Eric complains that the Mormons believe to be saved by grace "after all they can do". Eric's own personal Evangelical, right-wing God, does not save anyone by grace either.
Instead, this right-wing God, only saves by grace "after they believe in exactly the same doctrine as Eric Hoffman". Thus, Eric as the sole interpreter of the Bible puts himself to be the greatest man on earth, far greater than Jesus, whose words Eric interprets according to his personal opinion.
Mission activities:
One aspect which makes the LDS church suspicious is its aggressive mission activities. Stories like "bogus baptisms" or "Blitz-baptisms" show that many converts are not informed sufficiently, before being baptized. Many converts have not read all the Canonical works before the baptism is scheduled.
Eric starts to imitate this mission behavior in a similar way when talking to LDS people in front of the MTC(Mission Training Center), or other places to prove his point.
While it is totally ridiculous to prove any point by asking a random person on the street (I bet I could do very funny and embarrassing interviews on the Trinity by randomly asking people on the street for explanations...), he doesn't care for relevancy as long as he can make his point. Actually, I found that in many interviews, his opponents where making as good of an argument as he did (or as bad of an argument as he did; that depends on your point of view).
Fanaticism, intolerance against other opinions:
As I made statements which did not agree with his view on the trinitarian right-wing Bible interpretation, Eric got extremely angry, trying to drive me away from his board, first by changing the topic and asking me about my belief, why I post on his blog, etc. I recognized that while on the facade, he claimed to be open for debate ("open forum"), he actually only wants to convert everyone to HIS PERSONAL faith, and does not tolerate any other opinion.
By now, he has banned me from his forum, probably for posting a link to a pornographic website, with some bikini girls on it. You might guess which porno-site I mean... So the name "open forum" is actually a lie.
Moreover he has published other posters' private emails on his blog without asking them (at least, one listener complained about this), while stating on his website that "all mails are confidential."
To put it in a simple and biblical term: He is a liar.
This is just another facet of his hypocrisy. While every nice Mormon housewife who raises a bunch of kids, giving all she can, being faithful, loving towards her whole family, always helpful to neighbors, nice and tolerant even to Non-Mormon people, this person whom anyone knowing her, would call an "angel" and imagine her to sit on an honored seat at Jesus' table, when she will one day pass away. Of course this woman, will burn in hell and "lose her soul forever", because she doesn't believe in the very notion of God that his only Prophet on earth, Eric Hoffman believes in, while a person like Eric, is lying, deceiving, condemning, betraying, and abusing. This person, Eric Hoffman, is of course saved by the grace of the Jesus of his own personal Bible interpretation, which all of humanity has to bow down to.
It is only my personal opinion on the topic, but this is my prophecy:
Eric, you will wonder on the day of judgment, you will wonder how many Mormons will actually enter into the glory of heaven, you will wonder how many homosexuals will enter into the glory of heaven, and then you will say:
"What, I should enter into that place? A place full of Catholics, Mormons, fags, Muslims,...? What the f... I'd rather go to hell." (Oops, you said the 4-letter word, Eric, that may cost you your soul forever...) And God, in his almighty mercy, will grant you this very last wish...
The aim of my post is not just to rant against Eric (OK, I am guilty on this point), but to warn everyone not to become a religious fanatic like him. As Samuel pointed out, some months ago, Eric was a nice and decent man, but in a short time, the circumstances and his belief in absolute truth, turned him into a religious fanatic ,who shares all the attributes of a cult member.
While it is true that Mormonism contains many bad aspects which justify Samuel categorizing it as being a cult, the LDS people are human beings like you and me, and many people are doing their best and living according to their ideals.
They don't drink coffee and alcohol, but who cares?
I think it is most appropriate just to criticize the negative aspects like indoctrination and restraint of personal freedom (e.g. by letting them wear corporate identity underwear), but accept and love them for the persons they are.
Instead of fighting against special denominations, we should focus on fighting against injustice, fanaticism and intolerance in every part of society. All these aspects are the evils of society, they are e.g. the roots of terrorism we nowadays experience in the Islamic world, but they can really be found everywhere.
Terrorism starts when you condemn your Mormon neighbor.
Terrorism starts when you as a Priesthood holder abuse your power.
Terrorism starts when you as an Atheist disrespect all believers.
Terrorism starts when tags like "Evangelical", "Baptist", "Mormon", "Catholic" become more important to you than the people behind these tags.
Be aware about the terrorism that starts in your own home.
By changing your own heart, we can make a start for more tolerance, mutual understanding, peace and harmony in the world.
Martin
=============================================
Well, there it is guys and I think Martin did an awesome job, articulating, exactly what is wrong with Eric Hoffman's and others fanatical views of absolute truth and condemnation of anyone that doesn't believe as they do. There is no place for this and it helps no one and it must be stood up to, whether they are Mormon, Christian or any other religion.
Thanks Martin for writing this and for allowing me to share it with Mormon Truth readers/listeners and I hope that people, especially those like Eric Hoffman, or those that support his condemning ways, will pause to ponder, if that is the best way to show people the true love, understanding and compassion, that they profess to stand for. Like Martin phrased perfectly, we simply want to "warn everyone not to become a religious fanatic like him", and that is our goal.
Best wishes everyone and as always, thanks for your support and Emails of encouragement, they mean a lot to me.
Samuel the Utahnite
Labels: Mormon, Mormon LDS Mormonism cult brainwashing indoctrination fraud lies liars criminals joseph smith pedophile child rape adultery Thomas Monson Henry Eyring crooks vile assholes TBM apologists prophet evil
posted by Samuel the Utahnite @ 11:12 AM
38 comments
38 Comments:
Neither of you seem to think knowing God as he is is that important. You limit your scope of morals to the human-interpersonal realm, and ignore the realm of ethics which concerns the supreme being, and the worship/honor/respect/love due to him. Your worldview presuppositionally prevents you from esteeming as improtant anyone's critique of a doctrine about the nature of God.
Jesus said that the greatest commandment was to love God with all our heart, and the SECOND was to love our neighbor as ourselves. Both should be practiced together, not just the second. God isn't interested in an ethic where the second commandment is obeyed but the first is spurned.
Grace and peace in Christ,
Aaron
I've been on erics site and you're simply not being fair. I doubt anyone will take your site serious with such bias and hatered. I know I won't.
Dang Samuel. I listened to your podcasts from the beginning, up through the joint interviews with you, Eric and Jared. I thought the interviews with Jared were really good, and you both handled it well.
But I noticed an increasing bitterness in your tone, and now your outright focus and rage on Eric is simply amazing to me. I don't know you, but I do know Eric, and your comments about him are truly unfair and unjustified.
I am sad to say that I will exercise my right to not listen to you any more... the venom is too thick to stomach.
I wish the old Samuel would resurface, I feel like I am losing a friend.
Anon, let's keep it very simple for you, okay?!!
Eric said the following, just in case you have somehow missed it, in the several times I've posted it or mentioned it:
"As long as you believe Joseph Smith and believe his lies, you will lose your soul forever."
And:
"Believing this false doctrine that Satan taught and that Joseph Smith believed and that Brigham Young carried out to all the rest of the Prophets, will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven forever. These are dangerous grounds folks; to believe in Mormonism, it really is........
So Anon, this is actually what Eric says and then, when given the chance to retract his comments, he did not, rather he confirmed them, and stood by them, while admitting that even his own Mormon, tithe-paying, temple going Father was indeed in trouble, of "losing his soul forever."
Do you Anon stand by these statements of Eric? How am I being unfair? Eric has now personally attacked me, by saying that I use 4 letter words(which most people would obviously consider to be the F-bomb), all over my blogs, that my sites are suddenly, "highly offensive" and not able to be linked to, as confirmed by his preacher buddy, since they are only filled with hate and that I used a pornographic picture on my Mormon Truth Uncensored website.
All of these things are lies, as everyone can clearly see and I am defending myself and my name. I couldn't care less, if you, Anon, take me seriously or not, especially if you are a big Eric supporter and feel that condemning innocent, good people(that are just trying to do their best and get through life and be happy), is the right path to be taking.
I do what's right, I fight for truth and justice, no matter how unpopular it is and I will always defend myself against people like Eric and the Mormon Hierarchy and their pathetic apologists.
The truth hurts, the truth embarrasses and as I always say, it sets us free, or in Eric's case, it throws you into bondage, when your version of truth is nothing but a pack of cold lies.
At this point, Eric has taken it to the personal attacks and I'm simply responding and defending myself, as I've clearly stated, for those that have even one iota of reading comprehension or common sense, outside of their die-hard Christian beliefs.
I was trying really hard, to stick to his statements of condemnation as the main subject and then he had to go and start trashing me and making up lies about me, in order to put me in the worst light possible and magnify himself in the process.
My pointing out the truth and defending myself against blatantly false statements about me and my blogs, is bias and hatred? You can't be serious!!
What is Eric's blanket condemnation of every person in the world, that will ever live, that doesn't believe as he believes? Oh, I guess that's okay, because you believe just like him, that you have the only truth and are completely justified in your condemnation of innocent, good people? I sure hope not that is not the case, I really do!!
Take a step back and please see, that condemning every person in the world, that doesn't believe as you do, is just wrong and not from any God or Jesus, but from your own fanaticism and arrogance.
You guys should all be over on Eric's new website, raising hell, for his blanket condemnations, but instead, you are over here, attacking me, for attacking his condemning words. Please explain how you justify this, as I and I'm sure many others, would love to know.
Now, Aaron, how is your "anti-Mormon, convert all Utah Mormons to my version of God/Jesus" doing? Eric told me that you were out here on a mission, specifically to try to convert as many Mormons as possible to your way of believing and thinking. Having great success? I sure hope not!!
But, if you adhere to Eric's blanket condemnations, as I'm sure you do(as you two are 2 peas in a pod), your success rate must be next to zero, or they don't really know what you believe yet and you are deceiving them.
I'm sure that when you do your street preaching, or interviews, or whatever the hell it is you do, that you don't tell them that they will "lose their soul forever", if they don't believe every word you say.
At least Mormon missionaries, in most cases, really don't know the truth and don't even know that they are deceiving people, unlike yourself, who actually knows what you believe, but withhold it, in order to try to get the conversion.
I find your interviews, with innocent Mormons,(like in front of University Mall, the BYU student and the teachers at the MTC), to be offensive and with only one main intention; to embarrass them and show everyone how stupid they are, how smart you are, and that you have the "only true path."
Every thing you say and every question you ask, is only to lift up your position, your agenda and your beliefs, which you feel everyone should have. I do not respect you or what you are trying to do, even one little bit Aaron.
You try to catch them off guard and only ask questions, that will try to funnel everyone directly to what you believe, thus showing that you are right and they are wrong. It is pathetic and I'm embarrassed for you, and Eric, that you actually feel good about your ambush style of interviewing.
Also, I just noticed your comment Brian and let me ask you the same exact questions, that I was asking Anon. Do you stand by Eric? Do you support his blanket condemnations?
Do you also condemn, out of hand, every single person in the world, "to lose their soul forever", if they don't follow you and your beliefs? I sure hope not!!
Do you support and have you even read what he is saying about me on his site and blogs? Do you even care, or is Eric just Jesus Christ reincarnate and can say or do anything he wants and still be this amazing guy? Other than you are both "born again" Christians, do you have one thing in common?
Do you expect me to stand by and not defend myself and allow this to go on indefinitely? Do you think I enjoy spending hours having to talk about some Christian guy named Eric, that I thought was my friend, trash and condemn the people that I love and am trying to help?
Would you mind Brian if I started spewing complete lies about you, your character, your website and outright trashing you for no reason? You okay with that? Of course I won't, because you haven't attacked me with lies, as Eric has and I wouldn't do that to you Brian.
Somehow, I think you would defend yourself if I did that to you and rightfully so. One thing I hate Brian and will fight every damn day of the rest of my life, is hypocrisy!!
You are not losing a friend Brian, you are seeing the pissed off Samuel the Utahnite, that absolutely hates liars, 2 faced backstabbers and guys that go around throwing out blanket condemnations on the very people that I live next to, live with, have as relatives, loved ones and friends.
Again, you find this acceptable? I think that you Brian, need to seriously take a 2nd look at Eric and his agenda, as does everybody else that is supporting him and actually read and listen to what he is actually saying and decide if that is what you want to support and be associated with.
If you want to support blanket condemnations, which is what Eric Hoffman supports, stands for and propagates; I wouldn't want anything to do with you anyway. Somehow, you seem like a good, nice guy, that wouldn't buy into this rhetoric and I'll be very disappointed if you do.
Drop me a personal line, or I'll drop you one and we can talk. I have nothing against you Brian, nothing at all, unless you too represent these horrific, blanket condemnations of everyone that doesn't think and believe exactly what you do and I sincerely hope that isn't the case.
What does Eric or anyone, hope to actually accomplish, by throwing out these condemnations? Does he think it will help these people that I love and am trying to help on a daily basis. Does he care that it will cause them more pain? He claims to have this huge heart for them, but where is it?
Brian, it's just like regular Mormons, taking everything I say about the Mormon Hierarchy personally, like I'm saying that they are frauds, liars, cult leaders, etc.
In the same way, I'm condemning Eric for his words and awful condemnation of great, innocent people and you in turn are taking it too personally, as if I'm insulting you. My issues are with Eric and anyone that supports his unwarranted statements of condemnation, which I hope doesn't include you Brian. This kind of hate and intolerance, has no place in what I'm doing.
If I can't stand up to hate and intolerance by others, like Eric, without being labeled the hater, then for you guys, there is no point in listening to my podcasts and reading my blogs, because you are the haters and the condemners, not me.
You guys, along with myself and other anti-Mormons, are labeled the same exact way, by everyday Mormons and their apologists and die-hards, because we are pointing out their hypocrisy, fraud and lies. That is all I'm doing with Eric Hoffman, but the difference is, you all support Eric. Something to think about Brian, isn't it?
So, don't worry Brian, after tomorrow, I will be done with Eric Hoffman and have no desire to speak of him any further, as it would be wasting my time and taking away from my main objectives.
I will allow Eric to continue to spew lies and untruths about me till the cows come home, because I have already revealed who he is and what he is all about and made my case to the public.
Those that can't handle my intense way of showing someone as a liar, can go on their merry way and life will go on. I wish those of you that can't stomach truth and reality, the very best. I do not live in fear of offending someone, when I'm fighting for truth and justice.
As Eric continues to trash me on his website, if he does, along with some of you and his preacher pal(who now seems to run the website and answer most if not all relevant questions), he will just make himself look worse and worse.
At least now that he finds me to be so "highly offensive" and has actually labeled and called me "DEMONIC", I guess that means he won't be plagiarizing my blog and podcasts any longer, which is great!!
Take care everyone and try to actually see where I'm coming from and how you would react, if some yahoo, who you thought was your friend, started to make up blatant lies about you and spread them around on his website. What would you guys do?
Let me guess, you would just turn the other cheek, over and over and over, right? Well, I decided to turn over the tables in the temple and let everyone know that I was pissed off royally, while setting the facts straight and defending myself, while exposing Eric.
You die-hard Christian activists, should take your passion that you have to fight Mormonism and use it and apply it to all injustices, even if that includes one of your very own.
What separates me from most, is I call a spade a spade, like it or not, no matter who you are. I don't take a popularity poll, to find out what I should be doing or saying, I just say it like it is.
If the person wants to keep escalating things and making them worse, I'll join you in the gutter and we can duke it out and see who has the truth and who is lying. It's always easier when the truth and facts, are on your side.
That is what has happened here and those of you who are strongly supporting Eric, while condemning me, can't deny what he has said, word for word and instead, ignore his words completely and lash out at me. For any logical individual, everything is crystal clear!!
I'll leave a light on for you guys who might want to change your stance, after looking at the facts and dealing with reality, no matter how painful it might be for you, to actually admit, that your beloved Eric is WAY WAY, out of line and not speaking truths.
Once again Brian, you have seemed like a great guy to me, that just wants to share his happiness with others, which is fine, but please don't start condemning people like Eric, or me, for condemning his words of condemnation. Stand up for what is right and do the right thing. I just hope that you aren't cut from the same cloth as Eric is.
Best wishes and good luck to all and may you seek and find the truth, in all of your daily dealings and have the courage to stand up for it, no matter how hard it may be,
Samuel
Samuel,
You can defend yourself, and be angry with what was said about you, but man, you've said it and said it and said it, please move on and stop this venomous rampage.
You are losing viewers man. I don't even think you care at this point.
Yeah, Eric's views stink, but...they are nothing more than his views. So what? I don't agree with them, so I don't think about them.
I miss the old you too.
Good God, what is wrong with you guys? Can you not read? Let me re-state, what I've said several times and this is what I just said in the very last comment, if you even bothered to read it:
So, don't worry Brian, after tomorrow, I will be done with Eric Hoffman and have no desire to speak of him or know of him, any further, as it would be wasting my time and taking away from my main objectives.
I will allow Eric to continue to spew lies and untruths about me till the cows come home, because I have already revealed who he is and what he is all about and made my case to the public.
Those that can't handle my intense way of showing someone as a liar, can go on their merry way and life will go on. I wish those of you that can't stomach truth and reality, the very best. I do not live in fear of offending someone, when I'm fighting for truth and justice.
As Eric continues to trash me on his website, if he does, along with some of you and his preacher pal(who now seems to run the website and answer most if not all relevant questions), he will just make himself look worse and worse.
At least now that he finds me to be so "highly offensive" and has actually labeled and called me "DEMONIC", I guess that means he won't be plagiarizing my blog and podcasts any longer, which is great!!
Did you get that Anon, whoever the hell you are? Do I need to say it again? Tomorrow is it, OKAY? Did you get it? Capisce? Do you understand? After tomorrow, I'm going back to normal, so you can exhale and breathe in a huge sigh of relief, okay?
Are you guys done, trying to tell me what I can and can't say on my own damn blog, because it's getting a little old for me too, having everyone bitching and moaning like a bunch of cry babies, about every damn thing I say, especially if it relates to Eric Hoffman, the golden child of all Christianity, I suppose.
My God, it's as if my audience is all Catholics and I'm ripping on the Pope or something and Eric says he's not in a cult.....LOL!! Damn!!
Is it okay for me to defend myself guys or is that way out of line? Is it okay for me to defend the good hearted, innocent, God-fearing, brainwashed Mormon people that I'm trying to help, while Eric condemns them to "lose their souls forever?"
Go start your own damn podcasts, if you are so unsatisfied with my course of action and show us what you've got.
Take 30-40, 50 + hours out of your week, on your own dime, to do what I do; answering Emails, writing blogs and comments, preparing, recording and editing podcasts, traveling to meet people, helping people one on one, in person, over the phone and then report back.
Then I'll come along and tell you what a pissant you are and see how you like it. I'll tell you what you can and can't write about and all final approval must go through me, some Anon that you don't even know. Wouldn't that just be fun?
Is it okay for me to respond to comments or do I need to comply with whatever you guys want me to say? Do you guys want to take over my blogs and podcast and run the show or what?
Let me share a little story, for those of you that are so lost in your rage against me and my defense of myself and all of the innocent people that are being condemned for no reason at all. This might just help you understand what the hell is going on, because you apparently don't have a clue whatsoever.
Eric is a person that I trusted and believed in, and I thought that he was truly trying to help Mormons and had a great heart. He claimed he had no agenda, we became friends, so I thought.
I allowed him to interview me, I agreed to help him out and do an interview with him and the Mormon apologist Jared. I helped him tremendously, to know so much of what he now knows, through my blogs, podcasts and personal conversation.
This guy praised me, my blogs, my podcasts, thanked me over and over, called me all the time, sent me Emails and messages on Skype, linked to my blogs, publicly praised me and thanked me for all that I was doing.
We spent hours and hours, over several months, talking and chatting, as he picked my brain and constantly asked for my help, links and inside knowledge of the Mormon Church. When I first met Eric in February, he knew very little and I enlightened him.
He told me that he had been reading my blog since November or December, you know, the blog that is full of 4 letter words and is now deemed "highly offensive" and not worthy of his new, pristine, Christian website. He listened to my podcasts, which all inspired him to start his own podcast and blog.
I shared personal experiences with him, even stayed online, at his request, to help him with his podcasts, and I mean during them(when I had other things to do), in order to feed him links and quotes, and help a friend out.
Why did I do all of this? Because I thought he was a pretty great guy, that truly wanted to help the Mormon people, as I stated above.
For some reason, when I first listened to his podcast number 3, I let that comment about everyone "losing their soul forever slide." I remember that I was shocked by it, when I first heard it, but I just let it go and pretty much forgot about it.
However, it ate at me, in the back of my mind and about a month or so ago, I decided to go back and listen to it, to see if that was what he really said and sure enough and sadly, it was.
I then, before going on the offensive, to be fair, gave Eric, the guy I considered my friend, every opportunity, to strike it from the record, correct it or soften it, right on his own blog and sadly, he only confirmed it stronger and stood by every word, including that his Dad was indeed on very dangerous ground.
Now, I have publicly disagreed very strongly with this comment and his blanket condemnation of innocent, good people and Eric's retaliation, was to publicly smear me and lie about me and my blog.
We went from a strong public disagreement on his statement, to my blogs are littered with 4 letter words, deemed to now, suddenly, be highly offensive, he doesn't like how I do things, I'm wasting my time, am not helping anyone, because all I do is swear and name call, that I have no passion, that I'm demonic, that I use a pornographic picture on my website and on and on.
So, did I have a problem, with this guy I considered to be my friend, smearing me, my blogs and hard work, all over the place? You're damn right I did and that is why I'm saying my peace.
The only reason this post of Martins was posted here, is because he was booted and banned from Eric's website, mainly for having different beliefs than Eric does and reportedly using an occasional swear word, which Eric has no problem with in his personal life.
My question is, why is it, those of you that say you support me so strongly and now must leave, love my passion and anger, against the injustice, lies and fraud of Mormonism, but can't stomach me calling out one Eric Hoffman, who has been flaming me to no end, on his blog, with lies?
If you love the Mormon people so much and are so concerned about them, as I am, I would expect you to be agreeing with me, that Eric's condemnation of them is wrong and unjust.
I have received plenty of personal Emails, from a lot of you, thanking me for standing up to Eric and that completely agree with me, using very colorful language to describe Eric and anyone that supports him. For some reason, here, in my comment section, most everyone is defending Eric, who is the one doing the condemning in the first place. Isn't it ironic, don't ya think?
So, either you guys bitching and moaning all day long, are either not my supporters and die-hard Eric supporters, simply posing, or, are just very confused, in my opinion.
In any case, this will be the last day of "Eric Hoffman is ridiculous and wrong" and then I will be moving on, so maybe you guys should be the ones to chill out.
There is something very wrong, when the one doing the blanket condemning of innocent people, is the one everybody gravitates to while giving him a pass and the one calling him out, is the one they take a dump on.
Quite frankly, every single one of you, that know the facts and still support Eric on these matters, please don't listen to my podcasts or read my blogs, leave comments, etc, I beg of you, because I don't want to be associated with people of your condemning nature.
I'm trying to run away from that, after 30 + years of Mormonism and don't need some fanatical Christians, who are worse than the Mormons, stalking me and heckling me from the back of the room, with Eric Hoffman as their personal cheerleader and Prophet of sorts.
I also don't have time to keep answering your comments and defending myself, as to why I would be upset with Eric for completely fabricating lies about me, while trying to make me look like a worthless piece of shit.
Now, of course, as I keep pointing out, over and over, which most of you have probably missed too; it's ironic that you are free to come and post here, whatever you want and I on the other hand, along with Martin and others, do not have the freedom over on Eric's new site.
I ask again, who is being intolerant and who is the one being the hypocrite? Is it me, or Eric?
Eric can take pot shots at me over on his blog now, all day long, because I can't respond and he feels safe and protected, with all of his supporters surrounding him and protecting him, starting with his Preacher pal.
So, what do I do? I respond here and everybody goes nutso, but everyone is allowed to respond to me and share their opinion openly, unlike Eric's website. Now, is Eric welcome here? Sure he is, but he is no where to be found.
So Eric can come here and say whatever he wants, respond, refute, defend, etc, but I can't go there and do the same. Instead of appearing himself, and leaving a comment, Eric sends his missionary pal Aaron, who he is very tight with, to come on over and leave a comment on behalf of him, addressing both myself and Martin.
Just some points to ponder people and to help you to actually understand what I'm dealing with here.
Again, for those that need to hear things like 8 times, for it to sink in, one more day, or even half a day and we are done with Eric Hoffman, got it?
Of course, if you think I'm so wrong on this, I'm probably wrong about Mormonism too and so it must be true, right? I can process perfectly, the flaws and fraud in Mormonism, but in other things, like this situation, I have no clue, right?
I mean, hey, it's okay to call them out, the Mormon hierarchy, but anything or anybody else, especially Eric, is just way over the top and can't be stomached.
What a freakin(7 letter word) joke!!
Take care everyone and please try to turn on your brains and see the light that I've left on for you, because it's really bright and all you are seeing is pitch black, for some bizarre reason. Maybe you have a blindfold on, so take it off and you will see the light, it's right in front of you.
Samuel
Hi Samuel,
thanks for posting my article.
Man, I really was astonished when I saw the image you inserted. I had the exact same idea and wanted to suggest it to you:
The parallel between Joseph Smith, the final judge of Mormondom, and Eric Hoffman, the final judge of, well, all people who believe exactly the same thing as he does.
That may be only a bunch of people, but maybe Eric can gain more followers and create his own cult like Jim Jones did.
Personally, I wouldn't mind those negative reviews in the comment section, as they are probably posted by only one or two persons under different accounts (anonymous, brian,etc)
To all of those posters, I have a simple question: Why are you here, what are your motives? If you don't agree to Samuels notion of tolerance, love and acceptance, why do you post here instead of going back to your narrowminded Eric-Jonestown?
Anyway, thanks Sam for being courageous,
Martin
Hi Samuel and readers,
I stand with Samuel 100%. A Christian condemning a Jew is no better that a white man condemning a black man. They are both awful. If Jesus had one message, it was the message of tolerance. When asked what the greatest commandment was, Jesus replied, "Love God and love your neighbor." LOVE = TOLERANCE It's ironic that the only people who Jesus publically condemned were the hyprocritical Pharacees. If you recall, the Pharacees were self-righteous pricks who wanted the whole world to see how right they were and how wrong everyone else is!
Eric, if you read this, please take it to heart. Christianity is not all about how right you are and how wrong everyone else is. If thats what you think it is, then you have grosly mis-read the Bible. CHRISTIANITY IS ABOUT TOLERANCE!!!!! Think of the adultrous woman who was brought before Jesus. Did he condemn her to hell and take away her soul? No, he forgave her on the spot and simply counseled her to forsake the sin. He did not use harsh and angry words at her. Instead, he made an example of the Pharacees who had brought her to him by declaring, "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone"! Eric, unless you are perfect and have never made a mistake in your life, then you have no right to throw any stones (or blanket condemnations as Samuel calls them).
Samuel, I admire you for your courage to stand up for what is right. I could never do it as well as you do. Drop me a line sometime.
Let's all remember tolerance. If the whole world was more tolerant, what a wonderful world it would be!
Just a quick follow up...
Anyone who thinks Samuel's Uncensored Podcast is pornographic had better not ever go to the beach or anywhere near a swimming pool! Stay away from the underwear section at Wal-Mart, don't look at women's clothing magazines, or even any girl wearing an outfit that is form fitting! Be careful of your next door neighbor who might be sunbathing!
I just had to laugh when I read that! If that's really the case, then every man on earth is going to hell!
Hey,
I also just got dunked from Eric's forum, lol.
Nevertheless, I somehow want to come to his defence.
As I had some mail conversation with him, I saw that he is not that bad and evil as he is depicted here in the forum.
He may have some radical opinion about Christianity as the "only true religion" etc., but apart from that he is quite a decent guy.
The problem, I think, is rather that he is incited by his new friend "Theophilus".
Indeed, I got kicked by this person, not Eric.
I was just arguing with another user about Aristotelian logic, when this Theophilus (don't know his real name) was only trying to demean me on a constantly basis. As I ignored his insulting posts, he demanded that I have to answer him,etc.
I complained to Eric about him, after which this guy posted a small excuse, but then he started bashing me again.
All in all, while Eric tried to deescalate the situation, I rather think that this person named "Theophilus" is the bigger problem of
intolerance and the unwillingness to listen to other person's opinion.
Maybe Eric just had a wrong choice of friends...
Well, just my impression on the situation.
Scientist.
First, I wanted to thank Christoph, Martin, Ray and Arbeiten for their support and comments regarding this issue.
I'm also not surprised that you, Scientist, got the boot too and this looks to be a good gathering place for "One Living Truth" rejects, that get booted for trying to debate and share views, in a place were debate and opposing views aren't welcome. Eric used to believe in free speech, and freedom but no longer, as that was the old Eric Hoffman.
I hope that those guys over there, running "One Living Truth"(Theo/Joe and Eric), can one day learn to not be so terrified and afraid of anyone that has strong, opposing opinions(just like they do), and that don't agree with exactly what they think.
If you are homosexual...your gone!! IF you are debating the Bible...your gone!! If you use a bad word....your gone!! If you are an informed critic....your gone!! What is the purpose of that place?
Maybe they should put up little circles with lines through them, with all of the items I listed above and every other thing that deeply offends them, like girls in bikinis, masturbation, personal freedom of choice, etc.
To be honest, "One Living Truth", makes FAIR and RFM, seem like the freest places on the earth for open discussion about Mormonism and that's a very sad statement.
In at least one of Eric's podcasts, if not more, he told everyone all about the censorship of The FAIR Boards and how wrong it was, how they unfairly deleted his threads, comments, etc. My oh my, how things change eh?
Wow, but what freedom eh? Why would anyone even bother going to a place, where you are only welcome, if you agree 100% with them and cannot debate the issues with an educated mind?
It kind of reminds me of Sunday School or Priesthood meeting on Sunday, in a Mormon Church....no thanks, been there, done that, but thanks Eric for the personal invite. I'd last about one post and I'd be booted for violating all of your rules.
Just so you know Scientist, Joe McCormick, Eric's preacher pal, from the interview in Living Truth Podcast #20, is THEOPHILUS and I think that's pretty clear, since the "Bible contradictions" thread.
Now, here were the comments that Joe McCormick left for Scientist, presumably, right before he got the boot:
Do not bother to respond. There is nothing else to dialogue about with me ... unless you are willing to concede to my posts.
Wow, so unless Scientist was willing to "concede his posts", "there was nothing else to dialogue about?" Sounds like an egomaniac preacher man to me. Maybe he is actually God/Jesus Christ and has begun his 2nd coming and nobody knows it but he and Eric...ya think?
Then, he followed up with the following and final comment:
Posted: Jul 19, 2006 17:20
I'm not even sure he is reading my posts.
Note: Skeptics are welcome, but if someone just wants to argue for the sake of arguing (critics) ... this probably isn't the forum you will want to go to.
"Scientist" wasn't a skeptic, he was a critic.
So, in other words, what Theo/Joe, is really trying to say, with Eric cheering him on in the background, is that they don't want any intelligent, well informed people(critics), that counter their agenda or opinions, just skeptics, that are willing to convert to their ever whim and comply with every word they say.
They are terrified that someone might come along and un-plant the seeds that they are desperately trying so hard to plant. I'm assuming the next step will be to start inviting everyone to Theojoe's Church in American Fork, so that people can learn all about this "one and only true Church", that is just so incredible and amazing. Remember, you heard it here first, as it would be a natural transition.
Truly amazing isn't it? Thank the Mormon God, or Eric's God or whoever, that I'm not involved with this man, or going to his Church. If his arrogance in his sermons, is as strong as it is in his posts...look out!!
Of course, Eric has basically put him in charge of his new forum and given him the authority to do whatever he wants, with Eric's full support.
So, Scientist, don't let Eric off the hook, by blaming TheoJoe, rather put the blame back on the guy who owns/runs the site and the guy that put TheoJoe in charge. Do you not think that Eric doesn't know every single thing that is going on there and loves every bit of it? Of course he does.
Now, I don't think that Eric is this horrible, rotten person, just a person that is extremely misguided, confused and right now, being heavily brain-washed and manipulated by this Theo/Joe dude, who wants everyone to concede every word he says, or get the hell out.
Eric has lost control of his own identity in my opinion and become someone that I don't even know, nor want to know, at all, which is very sad.
He has become a religious, Christian fanatic, with no tolerance for anyone to have any other belief, that differs from his.
Maybe TheoJoe is actually grooming Eric to be the next preacher, when he leaves or retires and that would be Eric's dream job.
So, yes Scientist, Eric is making a very poor choice of friends, that are making him look very, very bad.
The sad thing Scientist, is that Eric is choosing people like TheoJoe, to be his friends, because he believes and agrees with everything they are saying and doing, thus making them one in the same.
Eric is trying to be on his best behavior, since he is working hand in hand, side by side, with his preacher.
Eric went from someone that seemed to tolerate other religions and ideas, to now calling people, like me and many others, DEMONIC, for even criticizing the Bible or his "only truth." How sad is that?
I'm not sure, that if Eric truly believes this stuff, which is, that everyone that doesn't believe as he does "will lose his soul forever and that we are now all DEMONIC"; that we can actually say he is a decent guy. These are not characteristics of decent, good people and he doesn't understand how offensive his words are. He can't understand how everyone can't see these words as love. Something is very wrong!!
He is condemning you, me and everyone else, that doesn't believe what he does. I wouldn't call that decent, by any stretch of the imagination. Do you Scientist, really, think that is decent?
I want to publicly say that I did like Eric at one point, even considered him a friend, thought that he had good intentions, but he has gone so hard-core in the last 2 months, I don't even recognize him anymore and I do actually hope that he is okay.
I care about him as a person, and wish him only the best, but I just couldn't stand by and let him condemn the very people I love, that I'm trying to help. As you all know, I very strongly disagree with his awful words of condemnation, but I still wish him the best.
This will probably be one of my last comments on Eric Hoffman and his "One Living Truth" debacle, as I just don't have time to deal with it any longer and it will be of no significance to Mormon Truth Readers/Listeners.
I've stated the facts and the truth and each person can decide what to believe, as I think it's pretty clear.
I just had to stand up for the people that I truly want to help, and not allow some right-wing Christian fanatic, to attack them with blanket condemnations and I have accomplished that.
Again, I thank everyone that has left comments of support and sent me Emails, understanding why I had to do this and expose the truth one more time. I may have to occasionally go off topic, if some other person or religion, starts to attack the average, good person/Mormon, that I'm trying to help, because there is no need for that and I will not tolerate it. How can someone profess love and condemnation, at the same time?
Also Mormon Truth Uncensored #3 is out, which deals in more detail, with the brutal rape of the 2 Mormon Sister Missionaries over in South Africa. I encourage everyone to listen to it and leave comments.
http://mormontruthuncensored.blogspot.com/
***Caution-I do have a very pornographic picture on the website(girls in bikinis) and as I've been told, "it may make you want to get off." It was also said that "people might just be going there for that reason." Again, beware of this guys, because it too, could cost you to "lose your soul forever" and is "very dangerous ground!!" LOL!!***
Take care everyone and I'll talk to you soon,
Samuel
Hi Samuel,
I am very worried about Eric. Now that you pointed out that Theophilus is Joe McCormick, I see the dots connect.
- A decent, tolerant guy turning into a intolerant fanatic in short time.
- A nondenominational Christian promoting going to a special church.
- A host letting other persons moderate his own forum.
- A normal christian talking about sectarian ideas such as "spiritual warfare".
Folks, I hear them ringing, the SECT-alarmbells...
I suppose Eric got sucked into a "nondenominational" fanatic church led by Joe McCormick. This explains why he changed his opinion so fast.
The opinion that sceptics of the bible are demonic and fighting a spiritual warfare, as Eric claimed in his new "Oxymormonic" podcast is a sure sign of fanatic sectarianism. It is the very same behaviour Mormons are indoctrinated with. In LDS terminology, this is called "Anti-LDS". Whenever something is anti-LDS, a True Believing mormon is conditioned to avoid it at all cost.
The ears are sealed, the brain is shut down.
Eric develops exactly the same attitude. All people questioning the bible on logical or other grounds are "evil Anti-LDS" oops, I mean "evil anti-nondenominational-McCormicks".
This is why, in the last few days, a whole bunch of people have been banned from his forum. Joe McCormick, as a sectarian leader, has to shut down a reasonable and rational debate at all costs, because reasonable and rational debates could reveal the TRUTH *alarm-bell-ringing*.
Eric, if you are reading this:
Wake up, dude. You got sucked into just another sect which seems to be as evil as Mormonism. You might not be forced to wear sacred panties, but Joe McCormick is brainwashing and influencing you in the same way every Mormon is brainwashed.
Did you hold the "spiritual warfare" doctrine before you went to Joe's church?
Did you condemn everybody because of their beliefs before you went to Joe's church?
Did you always change your opinion so fast and radical as you did in the last months?
If not, take these signs and recognize that this guy is heavily manipulating you. He might call his church "christian" or "nondenominational", but he presents a distorted, fanatic picture of Christianity that is characterized by spiritual wars, evils, demons, etc., when all there is is some manic selfclaimed prophet who just wanted to have fun with more than one girl and who wanted to solve some contemporary bible problems.
The problem are not demons, the problem is that you are seriously mentally disturbed by the fanatic preachings of your new pal.
In the past, you wanted to help Mormons leave their cult, now you have turned into a cult member as well, leaving your brain at the counter, handing the moderator rights of your own website to your preacher/prophet/revelator.
Wake up and turn around before it's too late.
Eric, remember, the truth shall set you free, but don't search it in the fanatic sermons of your sectarian preacher bud.
As an aside, here is a wikipedia link to several cult-check lists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_checklist
In Eric's case, we find several signs of a cult:
hypocrisy, censorship, paranoia, wisdom or knowledge claimed by leaders,
etc. pp.
Thanks, Samuel for pointing that out.
I hope Eric reads this before Joe installs a webfilter on his PC.
Scientist.
Eric's new sect
---------------
Hi everyone,
Being worried about Eric's new friend Joe McCormick, I have done some research on the "Calvary Chapel" non-denomination,
and found some troubling articles.
Especially for you Samuel, as a former Mormon, these facts will ring the sect-alarm bells.
The first one talks about the church leadership which is totally unaccountable to its members.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/119/12.0.html
The interesting point are the following statements:
[Chuck] Smith had resisted the oversight of his denomination, and he now teaches that the senior pastor is solely accountable to God. "The pastor is ruled over by the Lord and recognized by the congregation as God's anointed instrument to lead the church, with the board guiding and directing"
"Under the Calvary structure, pastors and elders have little or no requirement to disclose finances or decisions to church members."
Sam, do these unaccountable structures ring a bell to you? I bet so.
The next link is a whole wiki which deals with the abuse inside Calvary Chapel.
http://calvarychapel.pbwiki.com/
I will just pick out one interesting fact:
Chuck Smith, the Calvary Chapel founder, predicted that Jesus would return to earth in 1981.
In this manner, Calvary Chapel is as sectarian as the Jehovas Witnesses which had several wrong predictions of Jesus supposed return.
Anyway, just to put this out and warn anyone not to follow Eric's suggestion to go to Mountain View Calvary Church in American Fork,
unless you want to join another Christian sect with false prophets and unaccountable leaders.
The truth shall set us free.
Scientist.
Bleach!! Thank you Scientist! I always appreciate knowledge. I'll steer clear.
Thanks.
I do not have much experience with Mormonism, so I don't know if I should post here.
But I attended Calvary Chapel for several years before changing to another denomination.
I am glad I am out of this cult.
On the outside, it seems to be a Christian church. They read the bible, sing hymns etc.
But behind the scenes, this system is very abusive and oppressing.
Instead of being uplifted and supported, the pastors only stress how sinful you are, that you have to pray more, study the scriptures more, witness more, be more faithful.
Once you are drawn into this, you lose contact to other friends, as they are not faithful enough and do not believe in the right doctrines.
Also, as the previous poster mentioned, the financial practices are very obscure. I never knew where one cent of the donated money went.
I am now attending a more liberal protestant church, and feel really free and uplifted.
It is like a burden that has been taken from me, like a heavy stone that has been lifted from my back.
Now I understand what the evangelist John meant when he said:
"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."(John 8:36)
I have a good reference I found helpful when recovering from my change.
It is the "Rick Ross Institute for the study of destructive cults, controversial groups and movements" located in New Jersey.
http://www.rickross.com/
A list of quotes, many of which I find applicable to the Church I visited, can be found here:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/calvary/calvaryvisitor.html
As I said, I don't know much about Mormonism, but from what I read I think it is equally destructive to Calvary Chapel.
So I appreciate your work, Samuel (funny name!).
Beth Johnson.
Scientist,
I first wanted to thank you for your last 2 posts, which were very insightful and helpful to all of us, in trying to understand the sudden and unexplainable change in Eric and his behavior.
I did 2 podcasts on cults(2 hours), using the checklist from the main website and I suggest that Eric goes back and listens to these podcasts, since he loved them at the time and even called them "powerful." They may be of some help for him now.
Part 1-Cults
Part 2-Cults
I went down a 15 point checklist for the Mormon Church and it appears that Eric's new cult, would also fit that list quite well.
Interesting isn't it, that Chuck Smith has the same last name as Joseph Smith. I wonder if their is any relation between the two? Now, as scientist mentioned, "Chuck Smith, the Calvary Chapel founder, predicted that Jesus would return to earth in 1981" along with other years as well. Of course it kept changing, as the year 1981 came and went with no return of Jesus, just like so many other cults.
I will be posting on this blog, a post with the webpage of where you can see these quotes, most of which were in books that he wrote and then I will also post the audio, of Chuck Smith on a radio show, denying that he ever predicted when Christ would return.
So, in other words, this slimy Chuck Smith guy, is a liar and is the founder of Calvary Church, and is just like Joseph Smith in the lying category which always really pisses Eric off. It will be good to know that his founder, is also a liar, among other things, which I'll get into in the post I'm writing.
This guy, Chuck Smith and his "Calvary Chapel Network", is as much of a cult, as the SDV's, JW's, Mormon's, etc. Chuck Smith also appears to be as much of a nut as Joe Smith was, along with being a liar, as I mentioned above. Does Eric even know anything about the founding of his Church or the founder Chuck Smith?
Eric's Church, "which began in 1965 in Costa Mesa, California. Calvary Chapel's pastor, Chuck Smith became a leading figure in what has become known as the 'Jesus Movement.'"
As Scientist mentioned, there are big problems with money, especially in New Mexico, where it is the largest Church in the state, with around 14,000 members.
That first link that Scientist left us, was a link to that story, which all who are interested should read.
Unnacountable At Calvary Chapel
In lieu of Eric's blanket condemnations of everyone that doesn't believe as he does, as well as his drastic changes in personality, I think it is extremely important to dive into and reveal, what this Church he goes to, is all about, in order to give us all a better understanding.
I again thank Scientist for doing the leg work and finding out what he did, which has already helped to answer a lot of questions that I've had about Eric and his sudden changes in personality and beliefs.
It's funny how Eric scrutinizes and outright condemns Mormons, mainly for their history,mis-statements, false prophecies, for controlling their members, for being a cult, brainwashing, etc, when his Church fits every one of those categories to a T and was just created in 1965 by this guy "Chuck Smith."
I have much more research to do on Eric's Church before I can say much more, but from what I've read, they have serious problems at the top, with sex scandals, financial fraud and Joe McCormick is one of their official yes men and cult leaders. I'm assuming that Joe knows the history of his Church and does indeed cover it up, just like Hinckley does for the Mormons.
I wonder if TheoJoe ever told Eric or his congregations, that Chuck Smith, predicted that Jesus would return in 1981, 1988 and several other times? What makes this bogus sect/cult, any different or less dangerous than Mormons, which Eric considers to be "very dangerous ground", even for his own father?
It looks to me like Eric needs to follow these links and study up on his own Church, who founded it and all of the other sorted things that Chuck Smith has been involved with and it ain't pretty folks.
Right on the website, for Eric's Church, which became Calvary Mountain View, Joe says, "Our desire has been to show 'love without compromise.'" Does Theojoe's attitude running Eric's website, booting people out left and right, fall in line with this?
Does Eric's blanket condemnation, that all Mormons or anybody else, will "lose their souls forever and will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven forever", if you don't believe as they do, fall into the "love without compromise" category? It's obvious that he learned this from good ol' Joe and his statements are supported by TheoJoe, Eric's cult leader.
Anyway, guys, this is just good information for all to know, especially Eric and those that are his followers and supporters. Maybe they will be able to help intervene and help Eric, to remove himself from this awful cult, led by Joe McCormick.
If you Brian, F2K and others, are really Eric's friend, please reach out to him and help him, because he needs it desperately.
Take care everyone and stay tuned for more details.
Beth, I just saw that you left a comment and I first want to say hi, welcome to Mormon Truth and thank you very much for your comments and links.
I'm going to go check them out and then I'll leave a response for you. It sure looks like a cult to me and what you had to say, only confirms that and I have much more to study and read about this cult called Calvary.
Rick Ross is a great source and one that I used extensively, when I was first studying up on Mormonism and wanting to know the truth...thanks Beth.
If you have any more insights Beth on the "Calvary Church", feel free to leave them and congrats on getting out and for finding a place where you are now happy.
Here is the active link for everyone, that Beth just left us, to go check out:
Rick Ross On The Calvary Church
Take care everyone,
Samuel
Hey everyone, here is another great link on Rick Ross' website, with more stories about this "Calvary chapel" and how people have been treated and their personal feelings and experiences. To me, this erases any doubt, that it is a cult.
Comments On The Calvary chapel
Also, there is no doubt that Eric Hoffman's "Calvary Mountain View Chapel", is of the same network as has been mentioned above.
If you guys go to the main website of Calvary Chapel and search for Eric's Church(zip code-84003), there it is, in American Fork, Utah, with Pastor Joe McCormick....BINGO!!
So, if anyone tries to claim, that Eric's Calvary Mountain View, shouldn't be held accountable for all of these unhappy people, the scandals in other places like New Mexico and what Chuck Smith has said, well, it has to be, just like all Mormon ward, branches, stakes and districts, link back to Salt Lake City. It is the same exact thing.
Just like Mormonism, the problems are mostly at the top and then filtered down through the leadership, as each Pastor has the ultimate authority, can do whatever they want and report to nobody about anything. I think in many ways, this Church sounds worse than Mormonism or is at least just as bad and damaging.
Once again, just like any cult, it is the average good person/member, that is the one that suffers the most, with the treatment they receive from their God-complex preachers, who can do no wrong and answer to nobody.
We can clearly see this arrogance and overbearing power and authority/God complex, over on Eric's new site/forum with TheoJoe's heavy handed tactics. As TheoJoe said on one of his posts...either you concede every point I've made or don't bother responding....now isn't that exactly what we are talking about?
Also, the, "we want skeptics, not critics", was a very telling comment that was very revealing to me, about this mans character, before I even knew what I learned today.
Here is the link to Eric's Church, right off of the main Calvary Church website
Thanks again Scientist and Beth, for the great links, and for enlightening all of us, maybe even Eric, as this was all new to me today. I think we are finally getting somewhere and can now understand better what has been happening with Eric and why he has changed so much.
Talk to you guys later and please leave any more comments or experiences with this cult, for those that have the knowledge or have been personally involved with it, as I'm sure it will be able to help somebody.
Take care,
Samuel
I listened to Eric for a long time until his comments turned into condemnation of people instead of a love for Christ. He may end his podcasts and posts with the phrase "grace and peace", but when the entire message is one of intolerance, the words ring hollow.
Eric may be a nice guy, I don't know, but when I began hearing his message of intolerance, WHAM, right then I thought of a four letter word, cult.
I do not know or even care much anymore about what Eric is doing. I am simply finished listening to his message of intolerance. His message does not seem Christian to me, no matter how often he invokes the Bible or the name of Christ. He seems like one more bigot. I am too old to spend my time reading or listening to him, particularly when he sounds more like a cult leader than did any of the Mormon leaders.
So goodbye to Eric, I hope he fares well. I do not hate him or wish him ill, I just simply do not wish to read his new websites or listen to his podcasts.
Bottom line, this is Samuel's blog and podcast, and he has a right to say whatever he pleases. I am glad that he expresses himself so freely.
Samuel had my 100% support. keep up the great work Samuel!
Bonnie
Hey Bonnie,
I mostly agree to you, but also have one slight point of disagreement.
First of all, you are right that
"He may end his podcasts and posts with the phrase "grace and peace", but when the entire message is one of intolerance, the words ring hollow."
and that
"His message does not seem Christian to me, no matter how often he invokes the Bible or the name of Christ."
There is a nice bible verse which talks about this:
"Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men" (Isa 29:13)
Eric preaches a totally superficial religion. As long as you stick to the right denomination and beliefs, Eric's God's grace will save you. But he teaches only the precept of men, that is, his personal interpretation of the bible, and everyone has to "bow his head and say yes", or he/she will be condemned.
Reality is far more complex than this black-white thinking.
For example, if you study Buddhism closely, you will find that many precepts Jesus taught in the bible can also be found there. Even if Buddhism seems to be very different on the surface, because there is no personal (shall I say anthropomorphic?) God, behind this surface, you will find more similarities, even statements which are almost literally identical between Buddha and Jesus. When now such a Buddhist who lives up to all of Jesus' ideals, which are also contained in Buddha's teachings, will stand at the Gate of heaven, will he be invited by a loving Jesus, or will he be resented by a hateful Eric Hoffman???
Thus, we should try to see the essence of people, and not only their labels.
Your statement that you just don't listen to Eric's condemnation-podcasts anymore is good and honourable. I think that it is nevertheless important that Samuel covers this topic for the following reason:
When a person is raised in the LDS faith, he/she will incorporate a passive attitude of accepting any doctrine from the leadership. If this wasn't the case, there would be much more LDS people asking about doctrines of past prophets and questioning their leadership.
As Samuel will most probably agree, coming out of this attitude of passive acceptance is hard work, and takes a lot of time. It is painful and takes a lot of effort.
What is the relation to other cults like Joe McCormick's Calvary Chapel?
The transition between two cults is much easier, as the person only has to change the doctrines, but not his/her attitude of passive acceptance. What such a person really needs to do is self-responsible thinking and making one's own decisions.
Therefore, there is always a great danger that a person entrapped in a cult, instead of really becoming free and self-responsible, will just change the cult and its doctrines.
There are many examples in history which prove this tendency.
One example is the Anti-Mormon Bill Schnoebelen.
He changed his religion several times, but what stayed constant is his fanaticism and radical belief in whatever he may adhere to at that moment.
He was as fanatic a Satanist, a Freemason, a New Age adherent, a Mormon as he now is a fundamental Christian (and he believes in UFOs as well).
This dangerous tendency to change only the surface doctrine instead of the deep attitude of free thinking is therefore an opportunity for every cult to recruit members from other cults. That's why, often radical Christians like Ed Decker or Joe McCormick try to convert
Mormons, because they are good "material" for new fanatic members.
Therefore, I think that it is important that Samuel points this out, so that LDS people do not just exchange their cult for another, but really become "free at last".
Greets,
Scientist.
I do sometimes have difficulty reading your blog because the anger level is a little high. The feeling of betrayal from the Mormon church is understandable, but you also have to know when it comes to things like this you are quite literally preaching to the choir.
Dear Samuel,
In my opinion, you should not refer to that person Eric Hoffman any more?
Why?
Because his new podcast is highly pornographic.
I have just visited the new webpage of him and his boyfriend Brian, and oops,
he had posted a picture of a couple in holy garments.
http://www.smithbusters.com/OxyMormonics/OMOTW/7A3AA81D-8348-4FE5-9457-88A2385E3856_files/garment.png
I find that picture extremely repulsive, because it is highly pornographic.
If my son visited this website, he might be led to masturbating, which in turn inevitably leads to the grossest sin of homosexuality, as we all know.
Therefore, I plead you not to mention this person, who propagates such pornographic pictures on his websites, again.
I mean, I almost lost my soul forever when seeing this picture, but thanks to God (mot the trinitarian one), I had my own garments on protecting me from lusting.
Anyway, be careful of that guy, he is a wolf in sheep's clothes,
preaching against pornography, yet practicing it.
Linda Guernsey.
Sinister Porpoise,
Is anyone forcing you to read my blogs? Why don't you just stop and then you won't have to deal any longer with "anger level that is a little too high" or "my preaching to the choir." This blog is not for everyone and wasn't created to be for everyone and I'm not taking polls on what it should or shouldn't be. Some things may be of value to others that aren't of value to you and vice versa.
As far as my preaching to the choir, well, just because you know something, doesn't mean that others do. As you can see from the comments (that didn't come from Eric Hoffman or his supporters), most people are grateful that I would point this out and expose this Christian for his awful blanket condemnations, while professing his love and heart for the Mormon people. Somebody had to take out the trash, so I did, proudly.
Look, I will discuss anything I want to on my blog, that's why it is my blog and the reason that I started it. I wanted a censorship free place to come to and say whatever I felt like saying or was feeling, so why would I care that you don't like it? Again, you don't like it, can't stomach it, then move on and don't read it, but it ain't changing. I will continue to say or express whatever I want to and it has been that way since I started it and will always be that way.
There is a little X, in the upper right hand corner, and all you have to do is click it and this page just goes away. If you don't like what you read here, then I make the suggestion that you use that X.
Also, my style or "anger", which I call "intense passion against fraud, injustice, lies and deceit", is what has made this blog so popular and what people love or hate about it. I would say that overall, I receive about 8 or 9 positive comments or emails to every negative one, so obviously, it's working. I always try to use the facts and truth, to come to my opinions, whether they are popular or not.
I have people everyday, that email me that say thank you, I understand your pain and anger, because I have it too and that they are glad to know that someone understands. I have people that thought I was too angry, and then a few months later, after their wife left them or family wouldn't associate with them, due to their disbelief, understood why I was so pissed off.
I don't know what your situation is Sinister, or if you were ever Mormon, but unless you've been through what many of us have, in losing so much, in order to have the truth in our life, you don't have a clue what we are talking about or why we are so angry.
Again, my blogs and podcasts are mine and are firstly, to help me express what I'm feeling and thinking and secondly, through my personal expression, to help others out there, that need the help, which has been very effective to this point.
Also, I tried linking to your blog, through your name, but there's nothing there? When are you gonna start your blog, as I'd be very interested in reading what you have to say.
As always, you and everyone else is free to express their opinions, unlike Eric's new site and many others out there and I, of course, am free to express my opinions and disagree.
Take care and best wishes....or as Eric or Aaron always say...before they condemn you to "lose your soul forever"...
Grace and peace,(LOL!!-sorry, preaching to the choir again...I know..I know!!)
Samuel
Linda Guernsey,
I loved your post and thank you so much for pointing out this obvious hypocrisy, which is one thing I detest. I hate the "do as I say, not as I do" people. Ironic isn't it? That picture of two people in their garments, is far worse than 4 girls in bikinis. I mean, at least bikinis are legal to wear in public, but underwear, as far as I know, is not.
I hope that Eric is not tempted to "get off" when he sees two people wearing their Mormon garments or he may "lose his soul forever" and then have to go confess to Joe McCormick, his local cult leader.
Also, do they think, that by using that picture, that they will be able to help more Mormons and endear themselves and prove to them how big their heart is for them? Won't that picture be very offensive to the very Mormons they profess to love so much?
Thanks for pointing out how ridiculous and hypocritical Eric is, in saying that my site will now be a place for guys to go, to masturbate and "get off" on my "highly pornographic" and "highly offensive" website. He went from "somewhat pornographic" to "highly pornographic", in describing my picture of Joseph scoping out the babes.
Hey, any of my readers here, that are actually using the picture on my "Mormon Truth Uncensored" to masturbate? Please let us know!! LOL!!;)
In any case, I laughed my ass (3 letter word) off, reading your comments and I thank you for writing such a great comment, pointing out how absurd this man has become, in his new fanatical beliefs, that are so disconnected from all reality.
But, as you said, "Anyway, be careful of that guy, he is a wolf in sheep's clothes, preaching against pornography, yet practicing it."
Can we get a big AMEN?!!
Thanks again Linda and feel free to comment anytime.
Take care everyone,
Samuel
Samual, take a deep breath, relax. I have yet to see a post of yours that isn't ranting. I came her for a fairly innocent purpose -- to get links to other blogs who participate in the Carnival of the Veil.
Your response to me is indicative of what I was talking about. I never said you didn't have the right to do so, just that you fail to understand your position. You are changing no one's mind if you're stated intention is to convince people that the Mormon church is a fraud. Instead, your street preacher style causes people to retreat into their own comfort zones. Your site is not one I'd recommend to someone who has questions about church history or doctrine.
I believe it was Voltaire who said, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Since you take it upon yourself to attack anyone with whom you have a disagreement you must be prepared for this kind of response. You have a right to post what you want. It's your blog. You have the ability and the right to delete any comments you don't like. As the administrator, you also have the responsibility to remove/report any posts that might be suspicious. If you don't like what I say, you are free to remove any comment of mine.
I've been a moderator on message boards, I won't complain unless it's something stupid like Blogger chaning "the LDS church" to the "Church of Jesus Christ" like they did on my own blog. (And I did, like you'd expect rant about that. I can't even imagine why they did it. It was a stupid and senseless edit.) But, I recognize anger when I see it, I spent a good portion of my early adult life angry at every thing and my reactions were much like yours are now. It's not an easy thing to get over, but you must get over it if you'll ever find any peace with your own Mormon past. (Assuming Mormonism is the issue for you.)
Samuel,
Your obsession with Eric Hoffman has rendered you incapable of moving on. You said in an earlier post “that this was it.” You were not going to say anything else. You also said; and I quote you, "You guys can try really hard to censor me, control me and manipulate me, but you will fail, so don't even try." So should we try to censor you or not???? I am confused. Point is you are no better than Eric Hoffman. You condemn people that do not agree with you. How is this any different?
So after this will be your mile long rant on how I can just go somewhere else or “go follow Eric.” I used to really enjoy your podcast, but have come to realize you are rather unstable.
Greets,
-Tasha
Sinister Purpoise,
Everyone has their way of expressing themselves, everyone has their level of passion or fire and this is mine. Again, if you don't like it, don't read it. You are obviously a very calm person, no matter what is happening or going on and that's fine. As they say, different strokes for different folks, right?
I on the other hand, get very upset at injustice, lies and fraud, such as those that are perpetuated by this evil Mormon cult and their hierarchy. I am also amazed by those that know the whole truth and see the damage that this cult is causing daily, even to their loved ones and do very little about it or have a "so what, who cares" attitude.
Every person can make a difference and that is what I'm trying to do. It is draining at times, but then the Emails of thanks and support, make up for it and confirm to me that I need to continue on.
I started this blog last August and I've had 53,901 page views and just this year alone, I've had 35,481 page views and 22,965 people come here. Many weeks, I receive over 100 Emails, most in support of my blog and what I'm doing and since last August, I've received over 2,000 Emails.
I express myself clearly and with passion and you consider that to be ranting and that's fine, call it what you like, but that is me and people thank me for it everyday. I don't write my blog searching for approval, especially from the 1 or 2% of people that write me, that find it offensive. I wouldn't even care if 70% of people found it offensive, because it is mine and it is me.
It just worked out that most people love my passion, how I write and you aren't one of them, which is fine and doesn't affect me at all. I won't delete your comments, I'll just freely express my opinion regarding your opinion; is that okay? Do I have to agree with you? Do you have to agree with me? Do we have to disagree calmly, with no emotion, in order to be acceptable?
Just because you don't like it, wouldn't ever write like I do, etc, has nothing to do with the rest of the people that read it and thank me daily. Oh, I'm sorry, was I just ranting again? (I'm not actually sorry if you considered that ranting)
You said:
Your response to me is indicative of what I was talking about. I never said you didn't have the right to do so, just that you fail to understand your position. You are changing no one's mind if you're stated intention is to convince people that the Mormon church is a fraud. Instead, your street preacher style causes people to retreat into their own comfort zones. Your site is not one I'd recommend to someone who has questions about church history or doctrine.
My main purpose Sinister, is not understood by you, even a little bit. My purpose, is first to help myself, by having a censorship place to come to and "rant" or express my opinions and thoughts freely and secondly, to help those that are searching for the truth, just as I was. There are plenty of people, that feel just like I do, you just haven't met them I guess.
I'm not trying to reach the innocent TBM, that stumbles onto my blog, but if that happens, great!! They, however, are not my target audience as you should be able to plainly see.
My blog of truth, would have greatly offended me, when I was TBM, due to the fact that I felt the Mormon Church was the "one and only true Church on the planet." RFM, Mormon Discussion, any blog in the "carnival of the veil", The Tanners, Mormon Truth, or any site that spoke one negative word or was considered to be "anti-Mormon", would have deeply offended me, regardless of the tone of the writer. Do you understand that?
So, just because what I write, may cause you or a few people you know, to retreat into their corner, has nothing to do with those that this doesn't happen to. Do you have numbers on this?
I understand my position perfectly and I'm very happy with what I've been able to accomplish for myself and for all of those that I've been able to help over the last year, just as they are. I'm also grateful for all of those that have helped me in my journey, which is a long list of people, that I highly respect.
I couldn't care less if you recommend my site to anybody for any reason. One thing you will find on this site, is FACTS, LINKS to the facts and plenty of passion and opinion behind those FACTS without holding back. If people don't like it, then don't read it, it's just that simple. I have had between 5,000-9,000 page views each month this year, without you recommending my site, so that will not make a difference.
For you to say that I'm not changing anyone's mind is laughable, since you don't even know me at all, haven't read any of my Emails that I receive and have absolutely no clue whatsoever what I've done to help people through Email and personal interaction, either in person or over the phone or through my blogs and podcasts. You are stating a definitive opinion, without one shred of factual evidence. In fact, it is very TBM like and sometimes those behavioral traits, are hard to overcome, for all of us.
How did you suddenly become an authority on what my blogs have accomplished or will/will not accomplish? Do you have some inside info that I'm not aware of? If you do, it's dead wrong.
Since you take it upon yourself to attack anyone with whom you have a disagreement you must be prepared for this kind of response.
Well, it appears that I can't strongly disagree with you or anyone else, without you considering it to be an attack? I frankly don't care what kind of response I get, because I can respond right back and state my opinion too, which is what it's all about, right? You state your opinion and I state mine, as each of us sees fit. If you want to tell me to go F myself...fine, I really don't care. You are free to say what you want and so am I.
The only comment I ever censored, was when some ignorant dumb-ass, accused my awesome guest Joy, in podcasts 18-20, of being drunk. Joy was emotionally spent, after crying and telling the story of her homosexual, Mormon friend, that had just recently committed suicide.(This poster couldn't have cared any less)
Once Joy responded publicly, I posted the comments. It wasn't fair for someone to accuse her of something false, when they didn't know her at all and had no compassion and were more worried about the fact that her friend was gay, like many were.
Joy deserved the first chance to respond to that comment, without it just sitting there, making her look bad, with no response. If the comment had been about me, fine, I would have left it and responded, but she wasn't even aware of it, until I told her about it.
But, I recognize anger when I see it, I spent a good portion of my early adult life angry at every thing and my reactions were much like yours are now. It's not an easy thing to get over, but you must get over it if you'll ever find any peace with your own Mormon past. (Assuming Mormonism is the issue for you.)
Now my anger is controlled, focused on Mormonism and I understand it, as do many others. My anger doesn't carry over into other parts of my life. As a person right now, I've never been more at peace and happier. When I write about the Mormon Church and hear, day after day, the injustices that they continue to committ...yeah, I get pissed off and this is my outlet, along with my podcasts. When I'm not doing these things, I live a normal life.
Maybe Sinister, you just don't have the personal contact with people that I do and therefore, can't understand why I'd be upset with Mormonism. I hear too many stories and meet too many people, to not be upset and want to let the world know what this evil cult is doing, each and everyday.
Again, you have the right to feel however the hell you want to feel and so do I. I have the right to express myself anyway I want, just as you do. For you to say that my way is wrong, in your opinion, therefore wrong for everyone...is well, just ridiculous, because you don't speak for everyone, anymore than I do.
Now, I don't understand your final comment of "Assuming Mormonism is the issue for you?" What are you saying? Do you want to accuse me of having some sin too or some other issues, not related to Mormonism and I'm just using this avenue to express my anger? Are you now my psychologist too?
Have you actually read my story about how I left the Church or anything on my blog, about my mission experiences, experiences with family and friends, etc. You may want to do some homework, before you think you know everything about me, okay? It's very obvious, that you know next to nothing, but think you know a lot.
You are truly amazing Sinister and appear to be the all powerful one, who knows what is up with me, how wrong what I do is, how it isn't helping anybody, that I might have some other problems, etc. To coin a familiar Mormon hymn.."I STAND ALL AMAZED!!"
Maybe you should actually try to get to know me, before making sweeping generalizations and presenting them as facts. Ya think?!!
Now, I went looking for your blogs and came across
Sinister Porpoise
I see that you have ads on there, like:
Look At Me
Hi, I'm Lina and i love to get
naked in front of my webcam.
Adult Dating
Find people who want to meet for
sex in United States
Personally, I wouldn't put this on my blog and it may be very offensive to many people, especially TBMS; in fact, far more offensive than anything I've got on my blogs or in my podcasts. So, is this your blog?
You may want to clean this up, if you actually intend to reach TBMS and help them and I'm not sure that you do...just saying, that sex ads probably won't help, even if you are getting paid a little something for them.
I could also put ads on my blogs, but I choose not to, due to the fact that I will have no ability to control the content of the ads.
Again, it is not a requirement, rather something that you have to sign up for, so I would assume that you are okay with this content, if it is indeed your blog, which it seems to be.
It even includes a link to my blog, as one of the "carnival of the veil" participants, which was quite shocking to me, considering how you feel about it.
Maybe you need to drop Gunner a line to make sure I don't host it again, as he has been an Internet friend of mine since last August and even wrote a couple of posts about my podcast and others, stating in the last one, that mine was one of the best. He appreciates my passion and the fact that I use FACTS, to make my passionate points and that I back up what I say.
Maybe you need to do some additional research Sinister, before concluding that my efforts are offensive and basically worthless and making everyone "retreat to a corner." You are certainly in the small minority Sinister, not the majority.
I do wish you the best and I'm sorry that you have found my blog and passion, to be so offensive. Like I said, my blogs/podcasts, are not for everyone and this obviously includes you.
Samuel
Thanks Christoph for your response to Tasha and I'll just let that stand.
Some people just don't understand life, or the need for anyone to speak out against anybody, no matter how wrong someone may be or even if they are condemning innocent people, while pretending to love them.
In their eyes, the person speaking out against the injustice, then becomes the bigger problem, for calling out the person that is obviously in the wrong and for criticizing their blanket condemnation of innocent people. They obviously just don't understand the basic concepts in life or are just defending their belief that the condemner is correct in their blanket condemnations.
It's obvious that Tasha either fits into this category or is a huge Eric Hoffman supporter or just doesn't care in general for justice and truth, or she supports people that spew "bigotry, self-righteous 'holier than thou' attitudes and abuse of power." I sincerely hope that it's none of the above, I really do.
In my life, I've met many people that are book smart and life stupid, as they have no common sense or ability to discern or differentiate between right and wrong, injustice or justice and they just want to live in a "warm and fuzzy, let's make love not war world." It is sad, but all too common.
I'm glad that I and many others, including you Christoph, have the courage to stand up to these people like Eric Hoffman, who are hypocrites in every sense of the word and preach one thing with their mouth, while doing the complete opposite.
As far as my continuing to comment on Eric Hoffman...well, what am I supposed to do; ignore every comment about him, including yours Tasha? Maybe if you Tasha, quit bringing him up, I'd stop talking about him and so would others. Your comment, kept it going and required Christoph and myself to comment. Ironic, isn't it? You want it to end, but commented anyway. So, if you respond to these comments, we'll probably have to comment some more, okay? I don't care if we end up with 100 comments on this post, as long as everyone gets to say what they want to say.
I will continue to answer every comment that rolls in and I don't care how long it goes on. If people have something to say, they should feel free to say it, even it makes you Tasha and others so uncomfortable.
Also, after I made the comment that I would stop talking about Eric, new information rolled in from Scientist, regarding Eric's "Calvary cult" and cult leader, Joe McCormick.
I'll probably continue talking about Eric, when the subject arises, along with whatever else I want to talk about, like Van Hale only reading a small part of my Email on his show tonight and lying about what he'd said earlier in the show, in order to make me look as bad as possible. He has done the same thing to Deconstructor and Randy Jordan. Van Hale is one of the biggest double talkers/Mormon Apologists, that has ever lived.
I'll be releasing my full Email that I sent him and his actual comments tonight, for all to read and hear. He likes to pick and choose what he reads or posts from my Emails, in order to slant it to his favor and be as deceitful as possible.
Anyway, gotta run, thanks everyone for your comments and participation and I'll have my new post up tonight, about whose worse, die-hard Mormons or die-hard Christians and yes, it does include Eric Hoffman and his cult leader, so beware, those of you that can't handle anymore of this truth, especially you die-hard Eric Hoffman supporters and followers. You guys should all start your own cult, seriously, since you love this guy so much and hang on his every word. He will gladly be your Prophet, Seer and Revelator, I'm sure, since he already pronounced his authority to decide who keeps their soul or "loses their soul forever."
Take care everyone,
Samuel
I've posted a few times on Eric's board. Granted, I haven't taken the time to check out all the other posts and responses, but in Pastor McCormick's (AKA Theophilus) defense, he has taken his time to answer my questions, regardless of whether or not I plan on ever attending his church (or ever could, since I live in AZ). Does this sound cultish? I don’t think so. He is only trying to help others with what he himself has found valuable in his life.
Yes, maybe there are problems with his church's history and founder, but this isn't to say that he himself is corrupt like the rest are. I have found him to be very kind in his responses to me, not trying to minimize my concerns about the Bible. He has given some interesting facts, which I plan on researching some more…maybe you and everybody else here should do the same.
Seriously, Samuel…why don’t you move on? Yeah…Eric’s condemning of people to hell (like in the 3rd podcast) are a little harsh…not the style I would ever take if I were Christian, but I take it with a grain of salt…kind of like I take a lot of your harshness towards people who mean well (like your criticizing of Molly in your South Africa podcast – she may be blind about her faith, but that doesn’t give anybody the right to make fun of her name and stuff).
Brad,
I'm glad that you have had a great experience over on Eric's new website and forum...congrats, because I've got a least 4 people here in my forum, that have been booted by this great and kind man, while being accused of all kinds of things, but most of all, for disagreeing and challenging him.
I have been reading a lot over on Eric's site and I have found the opposite. This man Joe, is extremely rude and flat out stated to Scientist that the only choice he had, was to concede everything he had said and in another case, with someone else, to admit that everything they had said, was wrong.
Again, I'm glad that your experience has been so pleasant and wonderful. Maybe more people that think Joe is wonderful, could come on over here and tell us all about it.
Also, the way Eric has become so radical and has changed so dramatically, so quickly, also tells me that this man must be influencing him greatly. He runs his website, decides who stays, who goes, is the ultimate authority on everything, has all the truth, kicks anyone out who wants to debate, bans all critics(only skeptics allowed) posts more than Eric and so on.
The bottom line is that if it is a cult, it's a cult and if Joe is a leader in a cult, then he is a cult leader. Just like Eric uses all of the flaws in Joseph Smith, the founder, I'm doing the same thing with Chuck Smith. Eric then condemns every Prophet since and calls them a cult leader, just like I call Joe McCormick a cult leader. Seems fair to me.
"Condemning people to hell is a 'little harsh?'" Why are you over here, telling me to lighten up? Have you told Eric and Joe, how you feel about their condemnation of everyone in the world, that doesn't believe as they do? I sure hope so.
As far as Molly's name in podcast 3...all I can say, is that growing up all my life, the name for a goody, goody Mormon girl, has been and is called, "a Molly Mormon." Everybody in the Mormon culture knows this. Her parents had to be aware of this, but named her Molly anyway..which is almost cruel. It's usually a joke...people joke around all the time about Molly Mormons and that's within the TBM Mormon culture.
I've never heard of a die-hard Mormon named Molly and I found it both ironic and funny. Like a die-hard Mormon, named Molly, could ever give an impartial opinion...like I said, it would be hard to get past the name.
I was simply pointing out that they are obviously a very die-hard Mormon family, to name their daughter Molly. It was a very small part of the podcast Brad and something that I just mentioned, as I found it surprising and a little weird.
What amazes me Brad, is no mention from you about the actual content of that podcast. What about Molly saying, "Bad things happen everywhere and it's unfortunate. My heart goes out to those poor sisters and their families
but the work must go on."
You okay with that? What about Brock, her Father, reassuring everyone, just like his daughter did, that it was a very safe place, time of day, etc, in the rape capital of the world, that ranks 2nd in the world in crime and murder? You okay with that too?
What about Brock saying, "Now, they're getting the best care money can buy. When this is over, they plan to remain in South Africa and complete their missionary work." Did that show love and compassion, or was he just covering the ass of himself and his cult, that he is a mission president for.
I find these statements by father and daughter to be outrageous and lacking compassion and love. "When this is over?"Oh, when will that be? After they receive the counseling to heal both mentally and physically...good God!!
What about Ballard's statements? Do they bother you, or are you okay with them too? I'm just asking Brad. You write a comment, bring up that podcast and that I made fun of her name, but don't address anything that I just mentioned. Ballard doesn't even care who dies or who gets sick and on my mission, I saw that perfectly. They don't care, never have and never will!!
Did these things just whiz right past your head, in your concern and defense for Eric Hoffman and TheoJoe and the fact that I mentioned that her name was Molly and thought it was funny and ironic?
That stuff means more to you than these two girls that just got brutally raped at knife point for 2 hours and the Church they represent doesn't give a damn, because the work must go forward? It appears that the entire point of that podcast, when way over your head Brad, but I hope that I'm wrong.
I guess that it would be best for you to go back and keep talking to Joe, because he is a warm, fuzzy Teddy bear and so nice to you. All I can say, is count yourself lucky, because that isn't what I've seen.
Why are your problems with me and not these injustices and harsh blanket condemnations of Eric, Brad? That is what I'd like to know. It seems to me that you have your priorities out of whack, depending on what your purposes are, as a Christian.
I wish you the best Brad and as always, you are free to come here and say whatever you want and I will say whatever I want. I'm not running some "debate free, only talk like Jesus is here" comment site or blog.
I allow people to truly express themselves, debate, call me whatever they want, disagree with me, use foul language, be critics and that you will never ever find over on Eric's site and you know it Brad.
So, if you ever have something that you just need to get of your chest and say, or if they mistreat you over there, come over here and say it, because if it is different from TheoJoe and Eric's opinions and verges on...gasp.....debate....please God no....you will be banned in a heartbeat.
Best wishes everyone and don't be a stranger Brad. You may not agree with everything I say or do, but maybe you can still learn something from me, who knows. All I can say, is that I found your comments puzzling-not for what you did say, rather what you didn't.
Samuel
LOL Samuel,
I too have never heard of a Mormon named Molly. Jack either! I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but maybe they are converts.
The thing about cults is that you can't judge whether it is a cult or not by how nice the people are. I have no doubt that Eric and McCormick have nothing but good intentions. That doesn't mean what they are doing is right, but I personally believe that they want to help people. Eric wants to help people; Mormons want to help people. It seems like everyone's definition of "helping" people really means "making them believe what I believe". Samuel's helping of people is different because he has no hidden agenda; he is not trying to be a recruiter. He is not threatening anyone's salvation. He is simply trying to expose all cults and help people get out and recover. Whatever they believe is completely up to them. Samuel condemns the cult, but not the innocent members, which is how it should be.
It's easy to spot a cult... as long as you're not in it! Even if you are in a cult, it is easy to spot someone elses! As a Mormon, it was so obvious to me that the JW's were deceived. To JW's it's obvious that Mormons are deceived. It's crazy! Now, it's obvious to me that all religion is cultish to some degree! Beware of cults. They are everywhere.
Samuel,
I wouldn’t listen to your podcast if I didn’t get anything out of it. You bring up good points, and good issues (like you mentioned about the South Africa story – which I absolutely agree is scary to hear how zealous they are to get those sisters ‘moving the work forward’). I’m only saying that there are times when I have to take comments of yours with a grain of salt, like when you start attacking people personally.
Did Eric advertise his message board as a place where anybody and everybody can spout off whatever they like? No…he obviously has a goal in mind which is to help convert people to Christianity (not necessarily to Calvary Chapel). So if somebody doesn’t want to take an honest look at Christianity, why go there in the first place? Don’t they have better things to do? There are plenty of other places one can go to argue what they like. Eric set his rules, and it is his message board and his bandwidth, so why shouldn’t he have the right to enforce those rules?
Pastor Joe has invested a lot of his personal time responding to my questions and rebuttals. He’s doing what he feels his purpose is, just like you are doing what you feel yours is. If he feels that somebody doesn’t want to take an honest look at what he’s trying to convey, then why should he waste his time?
If I ever feel offended on Eric’s message board, maybe I’ll come tuck tail to you crying for help…but until then, I will continue exploring Christianity with an open mind. If I decide that Christianity isn’t for me, then I will have no reason to hang out there anymore.
I know where you are coming from, Samuel, I’ve had so many of the same feelings as you have had while coming to grips with my life-long Mormon beliefs. But if I assume that all religions are cults like you seem to have done (sorry if I am making faulty assumptions here), just because somebody feels passionately about what they believe, then I feel I will have made a big mistake.
Keep digging for the dirt…I like your passion, but also keep in mind that a lot of the people you are degrading have only the best of intentions (regardless of whether they are right or wrong). Of course, I agree that you should call them on things you don’t agree with, but why not more tastefully and respectfully?
~Brad
BTW, I've known several Mormons named Molly, and the stereotype has fit them all to a T! They probably WANT them to fit that stereotype, which is why they name them that in the first place! :o)
Brad and Ray, I appreciate your comments, thanks. I hope that you Brad, took no offense at my comments. I had already read several of your threads and comments over there, but didn't link you with them, until I refreshed my memory.
I just want to make it clear one more time, for everyone, that I have no problem with anybody believing in any religion, that doesn't promote death and destruction and the killing of innocent people for their God or some other horrific thing, like the evil 9/11 terrorists and the like. These people kill for their God and feel justified in everything they do and it is revolting.
The radical extremists blow themselves up and kill innocent men, women and children, because they think they have virgins waiting on the other side and that it is a great honor to kill the infidel. This is how they were raised and they feel it is correct and God's way and that their reward awaits them.
Brigham Young, as many of you know, taught blood atonement and proliferated the execution of any black man, that mixed his seed with a white women. These are awful and evil teachings. The Mountain Meadow Massacre, had to be one of his greatest achievements, that he was most proud of, which is disgusting, but he was a vile, evil man.
However, people have their free choice to believe whatever they want and do whatever they do. Sadly, most cults, like Eric's or Mormons, or many others, in the end, believe that all of these people, if not in line with them in heaven, are completely screwed and will be deeply regretting the day they rejected THEIR truth.
This I find to be unacceptable for me and I openly express my views on this as you know. It is complete intolerance at the highest level. Now, just because I'm attacking this intolerance, I'm accused of intolerance, which is amazing. I guess there is no right or wrong and God forbid anyone every stand up to it right?(I'm not referring to you Brad, but several of the other Yahoos on here or Eric supporters, that came down on me for being intolerant and a hypocrite, for not allowing his condemnation to stand unchallenged.)
I think it is highly arrogant, for anybody, to act as proxy for God and state, "you will lose your soul forever", if you don't follow me. Who gave this person, whoever they may be and from whatever religious affiliation they may be from, the authority, to judge my soul and determine what becomes of me, my loved ones, good Mormon people and everybody else on the planet.
If that isn't a GOD COMPLEX, I don't know what is and they should all be ashamed of themselves and not pretend to love those that they condemn.
I basically did that for over 30 years, not as openly and arrogantly as some, but in my heart, I always felt bad for those that didn't have "MY TRUTH", which was, in my opinion, THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE CHURCH ON EARTH.(D&C 1:30) I taught for 2 years on my mission, that we had "the only truth" and that is was they only way that they could be "eternal families."
It disgusts me to think I was so damn narrow minded. These were awesome people and I thought that they couldn't be together after this life, just because they weren't Mormon..wow...I'm glad that I woke up from my slumber!!
I have no problem with Eric or Pastor Joe, believing whatever they want and booting out anybody that doesn't see like they do and they do have that right because, like you said, it is their bandwidth.
If however, Brad, you had been following Eric since February, when I "inspired" him so much and worked with him a ton, to help him get his blogs and podcasts started, you would see that he has flipped 180 degrees. Also, I was attacking his condemnation and then he took it personal, making up flat out blatant lies about me and my blogs, podcasts, etc. I also didn't enjoy being called demonic, because I didn't believe as he did...yeah..I won't lie, that pissed me off.
So, you have a friend, that thanked you all the time, loved your blogs and podcasts, looked to you for inspiration and answers and now he is condemning your soul and calling you DEMONIC...I would call that a big change.
Even in that clip where he condemns everyone, he is asking for anyone that thinks he is wrong, teaching false things, etc, to please leave a comment or email him and tell him what they think.
Now, that person is quickly booted. Can you see what I'm saying?
He used to be open to talking to others, exploring things, learning, respecting others right to believe what they wanted, etc, but no longer, as Joe is the hatchet man in his forum and has been given carte blanche to kick anyone out that is a critic.
As Joe says, you must be a skeptic, not a critic, or you are gone. In other words, a skeptic, that is willing to believe everything he says in the end.
I think that's a one way street and anyone that has left Mormonism, could just head on back, if that's how Joe's Church is. Also Brad, the beliefs of Eric's Church are not your standard Christian beliefs, as they differ quite a bit in a few areas and I would study that out.
There are many flavors of Christianity, as I'm sure you know and Calvary Church, is just one of many and listed as a cult on cult websites, as mentioned in other comments.
Wouldn't Mormons, that recently left the faith, that tuned in, be critical and desiring answers? I just don't think they understand what their purpose is over there, I really don't and neither do many of the people getting booted.
Again, like you say, that's their choice, but don't pretend to be willing to have discussion and call a forum, "OPEN" or have a forum for complaints, when you just end up booting anyone that is a critic or that complains, or doesn't believe what you are saying.
What I do have a problem with Brad, is when these same people say things like, "I have a huge heart for the Mormon People", "I love the Mormon People", "I only want to help the Mormon people", when first of all; they have never been Mormon and have no clue what that means and also, at the same time, are condemning them, completely and totally (the Mormons that they love so much), if they don't come on over to their side. Now, that to me is one of their OxyMormonics if I've ever heard one or OxyChristianic?
Now, do I believe that all Churches are cults? No and I've never said that. I believe that any Church, that perfectly fits the cult checklist, are definitely cults, like Eric's Calvary Church and the Mormons and so on.
There are many Churches, out there, that allow people to believe what they want, don't condemn them, cause them depression, beat the hell out of them mentally, psychologically and spiritually, rather just encourage them to be good people.
I did two podcasts on cults, mainly dealing with Mormonism, but it's not hard to spot a cult and I'm glad that people have gone to great lengths, to help point them out.
I was in a cult for over 30 years, like so many others and didn't know it...Eric has been in his for about 8 months or so, so maybe when he's in his 50's, he'll realize it, but I hope it's sooner than that.
Now, as far as Eric Hoffman goes, I may have taken it a little more personally than I normally would have, because I considered the guy to be my friend and we spent hours on the phone, on Skype, on podcasts, etc. His sudden turn about, was somewhat shocking to me but you live and learn.
He says that he still has a heart for me, is still my friend, will always be there for me, etc, but, at the same time, believes I will "lose my soul forever and that I'm now DEMONIC." Where I come from, that isn't much of a heart or friend and I'm sure that most would feel the same way. Who needs friends like that, right?
Honestly, I think the guy needs help from someone and I hope he gets it, to at least help him to see, that other people can be good people, and happy, if they don't believe what he does. There is another world out there, beyond "Calvary Church" and "Joe 'Theo' McCormick", whether he thinks there is or not. I hope he finds it!!
Now, as far as Bible contradictions go Brad(it was laughable to hear ol'Joe, "throw down the gauntlet", as he said, that there are absolutely no Bible contradictions-I'm still laughing). Well, here are a few good links to check over and I'm sure that bringing up too many of these, will raise Joe's blood pressure through the roof and get you booted..LOL..so be very careful!! Like Theo says, "only skeptics, no critics and you are a critic-so don't even bother responding." As they say in Spanish...OJO EH!!
Infidels-Jim Merritt
atheists.org
A listing of 365 Biblical contradictions.
So, best wishes Brad and I hope that you find what you are looking for, I really do. In my world, everyone has that right, to believe what they want(I think they call it free agency), too bad others don't believe in freedom of religion and that each person can choose what is best for them and their families. Anyone that claims to have the ultimate truth and the only way to God, actually has no clue at all and there is a 99% chance, that they're in a cult.
Bottom line--religion is big business baby and a lot of people are getting very rich on their claims of "we have the only truth", which includes Gordo and the big 15 and yes, even Chuck Smith, the head of "The Calvary Church!!"
Samuel
Hello Brad,
basically, I was kicked from Eric's homepage because I am homosexual.
The second reason was, I was asking rational questions.
Both is unacceptable to fundamentalists like Eric ("Bikini") Hoffman and Joe ("Chucky") McCormick.
Joe does only have discussions when the discussion has a certain form:
He preaches his personal gospel,
you answer by bowing your head and say "Yes".
You can see that also very clearly in the discussions of Scientist and the thread about aristotelian logic.
Joe, aka. Theophilus, does not only insult persons who don't share his point of view or threaten them with enforcing his policies, he does not make any substantial arguments, but demands that everyone answers him, because else he will kick them.
It is also interesting that he labels all people who disagree with him "Martin the homosexual".
That reminds me of Hitler who saw Communism as a dirty trick of the Jews: All enemies were concentrated in one group. Of course it is convenient to belief that every person who has a different opinion is homosexual, I mean, they have a different opinion from Joe (=God), so they must be sinning (rings a bell to Mormons!)
Anyway, I suppose you were sent by Bikiniboy and Chucky Smith to promote Calvary Chapel in this forum.
I wish you good luck, but you will not succeed, Brad.
Greets,
Martin.
Actually, I wasn't sent here...I had no idea of these posts until yesterday.
Check out these couple of podcasts when you have the chance:
A Christian and an Atheist
Bill Moyers on Belief & Reason
Both provide a balanced view on both sides in an intelligent discussion format. Both promote tolerance from the different perspectives.
Particularly check out the episodes from the first link on Hell. Since this is a difficult topic in general for Christians to deal with and since this topic has come up in this discussion.
Also, check out the discussion with Mary Gordon in the second link.
Both of these Christians (Norton in the 1st, and Mary Gordon in the 2nd) provide views of Christian belief that I can swallow. I like the fact that if I come to the conclusion that Christianity is what I believe, then I can adopt an intelligent and tolerant mindset like these two individuals have.
Just food for thought. Oh, and the homosexual discussion on the first link is a good one, too (since you brought it up, Martin).
The topic of this podcast/blog is not Christianity, Atheism or Homosexuality.
The main topic of this podcast are the problems of the Mormon Church.
The fact why Samuel created the subtopic "die-hard Christians" is that he sees in them the exact problematic behaviour he sees in Mormons.
And they are even worse than the Mormons.
In fact, if you are not a Mormon, you will not go to hell and lose yourself forever, but, if you lived a good life, you just get into a lesser degree heaven.
I think that is a wonderful concept. What it really says is the following:
"We Mormons claim to have the absolute truth. That is the optimum you can get. If you don't follow that optimum but live according to another Christian tradition, you don't reach the optimum, but nevertheless can live a good life. That's why you get into a lesser degree heaven."
On the other hand, die-hard Christians such as Eric Bikini Hoffman send everyone to hell which do not believe in Calvary Chapel.
Once in his podcast or on his blog, he stated that Catholicism is a sect, too. So besides 12.5 million Mormons, he also condemns 1 billion catholics.
So in contrast to Eric Hoffman, who sends everyone to hell, Mormonism can really be called a highly tolerant church.
So the topic is not Christianity or Atheism, but intolerance and hatered of Christian fundamentalist.
It would be nonsense if Samuel criticized the Mormon hierarchy for their behaviour, yet accepted the even MORE RADICAL and HATEFUL behaviour of his former friend Eric Bikini Hoffman.
That would be bigotry, but Samuel can in no way be called a bigot.
He has moral values, and he fights for them at all costs.
And thank you, I am not interested in people discussing about my homosexuality who have basically no clue and understanding of the topic. I mean, the catholic church clearly has a high competency when it comes to homosexuality, as their clergy is made up of many homosexuals, but she has no competency to deal with it, as all clergy members live a life of sexual suppression which is not healthy.
So, inspite of your intention to water down Eric's radicalness,
I would like you to take a stand now:
Do all people who do not believe in Calvary Chapel or orthodox Christianity lose their soul forever and burn in hell, as Eric Bikini Hoffman claims?
Please make a clear statement about that.
And if you disagree to this statement, explain to me why you can accept this "ultimate intolerance" as you seem to do.
Greets,
Martin
P.S.: Shuumitsu, that was really a great post, though I am not very familiar with Buddhism.
Martin,
Maybe the view of Hell being a place of "fire, brimstone, and eternal punishment" isn't the view of all Christians. I don't know what stand Calvary chapel takes. Check out that "Hell" podcast. I learned that such a view isn't always held.
Samuel the Utahnite,
Im sorry to see that first of all you have gone senile, and second of all if not, then "wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell"!!! (2Nephi 9:34). The only liar here is you, you cant even back up your false claims. This foolish rampage you are on will not succeed in the least, i pitty help you at judgement day, GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED!!!! P.S The church still is, has always been and will always be absolutely true!!!
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