Thursday, August 04, 2005

When will the church abide by their Simon Southerton precedent, and excommunicate Joseph Smith posthumously for ADULTERY?

This is a post that was originally posted by Tal Bachman, my response and then his response to what I said. I normally will only be putting my opinions on here but when I find something this awesome by somebody, I will gladly post it. It is still posted over on if anybody wants to go read the whole thread. I couldn't have said it any better. I thought he hit the nail right on the head!!


The spectacle of a church founded by a guy who had sex with over thirty women, not ONE of whom was his legal wife, excommunicating a guy like Simon Southerton for having an "innapropriate" relationship with a woman, is really grotesque, and is only further testimony to the blindness and hypocrisy induced by Mormon ideological fanaticism.

Joseph Smith did NOT "marry" his plural wives (many of whom were already married to other men) in accordance with "the law of the land"; he had sex with them in DEFIANCE of the laws of Illinois. By any definition, then, religious or legal, and even Mormon at that time, his actions constitute adultery. There is no way around this. When will he be posthumously excommunicated for this sin? Answer: NEVER, because Mormonism is his cult, and there is NOTHING that cult members could ever find out about their cult founder which would ever convince them to boot him out posthumously. My own mother told me that even if Joseph lied about all his stories, that "the church would still be true".

Besides, if adultery weren't enough to constitute an "inappropriate" relationship, what about him having sex with the 14 year old daughter of Heber Kimball? How "appropriate" is that? Joseph Smith was THIRTY NINE when he had ILLEGAL SEX with this frightened girl, a girl who later said she had been "deceived", since she had no idea that this "marriage" would ever entail sex, or prohibit her from marrying another man for time and all eternity. Is THAT "appropriate"? For cult members, YES. Joseph could have slit the quivering young Miss Kimball's throat and then eaten her, and Mormons would still take no posthumous action against Joseph Smith - because after all, "the church is true, the church is true, the church is true" (repeat ad infinitum).

Truly sick.


Hey Tal, I agree with every word you said. I think this is the best post yet. It is all so true and so unbelievable. I mean, to think that the Morg is worshiping this adulterers Birthday makes me physically ill. I went to the party and I'll return and report on that later. Joseph Smith was a monster!! He was an adulterer, child molester, wife stealing pedophile who prayed on the young and naive. He promised Eternal life in the name of God for sex. He was basically God's pimp. He destroyed many women, families and lives and his legacy lives on. It is very sad and also disgusting. He was complete scum!! As Mr. Hinckley would say, "so what?"

The sad thing is that I have already ran into a few "TBM's" that say exactly what you said, that the Church is still true even though Joseph Smith was a polygamist, etc, etc. The programming by the Morg goes several layers deep and all we can do is try to take off one layer at a time. I guess it took their whole life to be programmed so deeply so it will take time to deprogram them. They continue to destroy lives and families with their stances on masturbation, sex, gays, etc. It is just one lie after another. They don't care who they destroy!!

The Churches new "Joseph Smith Website" is the exactly what we are talking about and a complete joke. As we all know, not one mention of polygamy, just Joseph and Emma, two little lovebirds just as happy as can be. No mention that Joseph was about to be killed or slain by an angel with a sword. No mention from D&C 132 about God destroying Emma if she didn't go along with her little Joe's adultery. Not one mention of his other wives, children, etc. I guess that they don't matter.

Now I'm starting to really get pissed as the deceit just rolls on. The Morg truly knows no shame. Hopefully this pride, lying and deceit will one day cause a complete implosion of the Morg as we know it. One can only hope!!

Samuel the Utahnite


Yeah Samuel - NO mention on that website of the bitter tears Emma cried over her serial adulterer of a husband, or of her comment, after finding out years after his assassination of just how prolifically Joseph had lied to her, that Joseph "deserved to die" for his betrayal! I mean, we're talking a seriously dysfunctional couple here.

Let's not forget, either, that it was JOSEPH SMITH who believed that Emma tried to POISON HIM AND MURDER HIM! Is THAT on the church website? That Emma was so distraught that, at least in Joseph's mind, she was guilty of ATTEMPTED MURDER?

What's the most insane of all is that you can actually read all about this sick, dysfunctional, stomach-churning garbage that I wish I had never even heard of, this completely abusive relationship, in books sold in the church's official bookstore! Both "Mormon Enigma" and "Mormon Polygamy: A History" are for sale there. At one point, Emma Smith was drafting anti-polygamy statements with her Relief Society counselors, completely unaware that her husband was secretly screwing both of them! And I actually sat in Ken Godfrey's institute class as a young man and listened to him talk about disgusting crap like this, and somehow managed to make it okay in my mind.

I don't think I'll ever live down having defended the church so often in public and private, on radio, in print, amongst friends. In the name of truth, I defended an organization which hates it, and assaults it at every possible opportunity, even smugly so, and then demonizes anyone (as it has from the beginning) who dare to take issue with the deception. Its behaviour is nearly sociopathic, perhaps just what you would expect from an organization whose founder seems to fit exactly the description of a sociopath: charming, winning, and completely unconcerned about who he has to hurt or defame to satisfy his lusts.


I had to add one more thing!! Here are a few comments from Polygamy Porter plus an addtional list of names of men that should also be excommunicated posthumously. I agree wholeheartedly with the comments and the list!!


Invite the Mutal kids... lets posthumously excommunicate all of those sick bastards in the mormon past

Brigham Young
Heber C. Kimball
John Taylor
Wilford Woodruff
Lorenzo Snow
Joseph F. Smith
Heber J. Grant

Plus all of the men who practiced it.

The fact of the matter is polygamy was always against the law.

Therefore all who were engaging in the illegal extra marital unions were doing nothing more than cheating on their first wife, aka ADULTERY, FORNICATION... any under 18? CHILD RAPE..

Polygamy Porter

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At Sunday, August 06, 2006 5:53:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Umm! Any man having sex with a girl under 18 at that time frame would include alot of other men not in the church. The age 18 thing for marriage is new. Girls were considered of marriagable/sex when they began having periods. Be careful of what you shout at!

At Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:13:00 AM, Blogger Samuel the Utahnite said...

Anon, really need to educate yourself, instead of telling me to be careful what I shout at. How did you arrive at your knowledge that is was acceptable for 37 year old men to be having sex with 14 year old girls, back in Joseph's day? Is that what your leaders have taught you? I would call that the blind leading the blind.

Of course he did promise the girl and her whole family eternal life in exchange for her body, and I'm sure that was normal, everyday behavior as well, right?

Also, I don't give a damn about the other men back then that were having sex with girls under the age of 18, because we are talking about the Mormon Hierarchy, supposedly called and directly led by God, not just any guy.

Furthermore, marrying multiple teenagers, with a 20+ year age difference, in addition to other men's wives, some even pregnant, along with mother/daughter and sister combos, was certainly not normal in any sense of reality, for anyone back then, except perverted, sex freak, pedophile Mormons like Joseph Smith.

So, I ask you Anon, to show me the proof that this behavior, by your beloved founder and Prophet of God, the man your literally PRAISE in song, was just common everyday behavior all over the United States. I'll anxiously await your answer and I hope that you can enlighten me.

Also, here is a great link to read all about the average age of menarche (first menstruation) back in 1840. If you have conflicting evidence that this is wrong, please forward it to me, okay? Again, I'll be anxiously awaiting.

When did girls have their first menstruation in 1840

Since you are so sure that this was all normal behavior, I'm gonna shift the burden of proof back to you Anon, to back up your claims and statements, since they are so far from any reality or true facts.

Were homicidal angels with flaming swords, that would kill Joseph Smith if he didn't become a pedophile polygamist, also considered normal by mainstream society? Please show me where...I can't wait to see your evidence. Happy hunting!!

Take care,


At Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:20:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, nice re-direct... I was almost on board until I got to the following sentence...
"Laura Ingalls Wilder, from Little House on the Prairie fame,"...

You have got to be kidding... like I said nice re-direct, maybe you should of read the entire page :)
oh well, as long as you are trying to save the free world from ?, well anyway... crazy huh.

At Tuesday, February 12, 2008 12:01:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said... and their excuse to screw anyone they want, when they want. That is what the Mormans are about. They want to contribute their sexual desires beyond what God has created on an "enlightenment" from God. Give me a break. This was, and is, their way of excusing their sexual desires that most men have...but most have more success from turning away from. What a joke. God wouldn't tell anyone to treat other humans that way!! And, why do men feel they have the capital on the market of what is right for humanity? God doesn't speak to you men any more than he speaks to women. And, he has told me that your thinking is all in your dick!

At Sunday, March 02, 2008 4:18:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I totally agree, power mad men will always want to feed their need by doing whatever they want! Including using and abusing young, impressionable girls. I think Joseph Smith fed on the need of lonely, desperate people. I don't blame any of his followers for believing the things they said, America back then were in desperate need for something to believe and someone to follow, Joseph Smith took advantage of that, praying on the needy.. All you have to do is read the book of mormon, and the facts about how it was written to know that he was a fraud. Malicious, money grabbing, paedophile! And whats with this thing I hear about baptising people into the mormon church after their that like, if the mormons aren't getting into heaven we're not letting anyone else either...? Sorry to sound so negative but the whole thing mind boggles me! My partners mother is mormon and she had the nerve to throw out a bottle of alcohol he had recieved as a present for christmas (unopened, he wasnt sitting getting drunk on it) yet she keeps a jar of coffee in her cupboard.....what?!!
One last thing, have you got any refernce links I can use that show Joseph smith had a criminal record and married under aged girls? I need actual proof rather than just speculation to show some friends...? Thanks

At Monday, May 02, 2011 2:49:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is nothing wrong with pedophilia anymore than being attracted to a flat chested woman and using it as an attack is illogical and nonsensical, especially as an atheist, especially if you believe in evolution, which is amoral. What is wrong, because there is a God who is moral, is adultery, plaizlust for someone you aren't married to, fornication and molestation.

And why did you become an atheist? So sad that the Pharisees who crossed land and sea to convert you made you twice a child as Hell as them, but hopefully there is still hope for you.

At Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:39:00 PM, Blogger Nik said...

It's so hard coming out of Mormonism because they're so brain-washed. Praise God He found me; I'm so disgusted at all the things that are kept hushed and hidden from the LDS community. Thank you for shining a light on the deep darkness.

At Tuesday, August 09, 2011 12:43:00 PM, Blogger lovernotafighter said...

Hey Mr.Tal,could you provide sources for the information you've provided here? I don't ask this to challenge the validity of any of your claims. Its just that quotable proof of the things you've said here is hard to find on the internet, and I feel that simply taking your word for it would be making the same mistake made by the young girl in your story.

At Tuesday, October 01, 2013 1:13:00 PM, Blogger LJ Thomas said...

I recommend 2 wonderful movies which give a true perspective on the Church of JC of LDS (Mormon)and its effect on its members.

"Latter Days" and "The Falls" both of which are available on


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