Chatting With A Mormon Missionary!! Taylor Said: "When Faced With The Two Options, Either Unfaithfulness To God, Or Death, It Is Better To Die."

THE MORMONS DISGRACEFUL AND DESPICABLE "BETTER OFF DEAD" TEACHING IS STILL ALIVE AND WELL FOLKS, JUST ASK A CURRENT MISSIONARY!!

First I wanted to give a shout out to Demon of Kolob, for letting me know about this "chatting with a missionary" option(just click "ask a question" in the upper right hand corner), since it's something I've been wanting to do for a very long time. I'm guessing this is something fairly new and I encourage all of you ex-Mormons out there to take advantage of it.

The busier we keep these clowns, dealing with us anti/ex-Mormons, the less time they have to lie and deceive the honest and sincere people of the world, that don't know they are being bamboozled and deceived at every turn.

I will gladly post transcripts of everybody's experiences, which should be fun. Just drop me an Email if you too have a conversation with the missionaries, that is worth reporting and you want me to post it.

Also, for those that want to speak to a live Mormon missionary, over the phone, you simply call 1-888-537-6600 (in U.S. and Canada only).

At the bottom of the page, it says:

"This feature(the chat or calling them) is not intended for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to contact Church headquarters. Church members should discuss questions or personal matters with their local leaders." (So, I would harass the shit out of them as often as we can.)

Anyway, this is the transcript of the conversation and I'm also doing an audio version of this experience for a new podcast, reading the transcript and adding my comments and thoughts. I'll post the audio both here and on my Mormon Truth Uncensored Podcast, which you can all easily subscribe to and download through iTunes.

Also, once you click to chat with a missionary, a disclaimer pops up to say that the people you are speaking with "don't speak for the church." So, who are they speaking for and who do they represent? Do they have JWs or Catholic Priests doing the chats or what? Give me a break!! What's the point of chatting with them, if you're and investigator and they "don't speak for the Mormon church." In other words, they are completely WORTHLESS!!

Of course, it's just the Mormon Hierarchy's way of covering their ass once again, while using incompetent, clueless, brainwashed, lying missionaries to do their dirty, filthy work of shame.

I mean hell, The Journal of Discourses aren't official(but often quoted in General Conference), Conference talks aren't official scripture anymore, Official Mormon History books aren't even official, Dead Prophets and their teachings are worthless shit now(unless quoted in General Conference of course)...because it's all about the living Prophet, kissing his ass, thanking God for a "Prophet", etc, etc. What a joke and what a damn, pathetic cult!!

To me, this whole chat thing is a sign of their desperation and it's already backfiring big time. I wonder how long before they end it? Was this Danny Boy and the More Good(BULLSHIT) Foundation's idea? Oh, I forgot, he doesn't even work for the church at all and they don't pay him for his apologetic studies either....my bad. Yep, everyone at FARMS works completely free, like a calling to clean shitters or something, right? I mean hey, when the modern day Moses calls.......

Anyway, this was my experience with Taylor, the Mormon missionary, from earlier today. Enjoy everyone!!
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Thank you for taking the time to chat with us and for your interest in the Church. Please know that you are welcome to worship with us any time, request a visit from Mormon missionaries, order a Book of Mormon, or continue to browse our Web site to learn more answers to life's greatest questions.

Samuel:

Hey Taylor, are you a missionary?

Taylor:

Thank you for contacting the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. How May I Help You?

Taylor:

Yes, I am.

Samuel:

I'm 32, just moved to Utah from California and all my neighbors are Mormon and they're talking to me a lot about the church, if I want to talk to the missionaries, take the discussions, etc. I have 2 children under the age of 7 and a neighbor gave me a copy of The Miracle Of Forgiveness, that was written by Spencer Kimball, who was a former Mormon Prophet, right? Since then I've been reading the book and doing extensive research and I'm very troubled by what I'm finding.

Samuel:

I'm always hearing how much Mormons love people, teach about families, etc, but according to this awful book, it's true then that the Mormon Church truly believes and teaches that you're literally better off dead than immoral?

Taylor:

Yes, Spencer W. Kimball was a Prophet. What's troubling you?

Samuel:

Kimball says that in the case of a woman being raped, that "it is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle." So, in other words, if a woman is raped and lived, she didn't fight hard enough? She is actually better off dead? Would the 2 Mormon sister missionaries that were brutally raped at gunpoint, (one was actually shot) in South Africa a while back, be "better off dead", because they didn't actually die that day and lived through their horrific rape that lasted for hours.

Samuel:

this hurts me.

Samuel:

I can't imagine wishing that my daughter, wife, sister or friend was dead.

Samuel:

Another former Mormon Prophet, David O. McKay is quoted in this book as having taught:"...Your virtue is worth more than your life. Please young folk, preserve your virtue even if you lose your lives. Do not tamper with sin...do not permit yourselves to be led into temptation...."

Taylor:

I think you might be misunderstanding what was meant by President Kimball.

Samuel:

Is this true? I can't believe this is for real and I find it horrifying!

Samuel:

What am I misunderstanding...it seems pretty clear to me.

Taylor:

We know that victims of rape are innocent.

Samuel:

The other quotes support my interpretation.

Samuel:

He actually says they are innocent "if she has not cooperated" and "contributed to the foul dead." So how does a woman contribute to "being RAPED?"

Samuel:

I'm looking at the book right now and typing exactly what he said.

Samuel:

If they are innocent, how could they make the Rape happen and be better off giving up their lives fighting off the rapist?

Samuel:

It makes no sense at all.

Samuel:

I also found another very disturbing quote that was taught by a former Mormon Apostle, that supports these comments:

Taylor:

Obviously a woman does not contribute to being raped. These prophets are stressing that if there is a way out of a compromise then they should take it.

Taylor:

They are trying to emphasize the importance of chastity that when compromising situtations occur they should expend all their efforts.

Samuel:

Bruce R. McConkie the former Mormon Apostle taught:"Loss of virtue is too great a price to pay even for the preservation of ones life - BETTER DEAD CLEAN, THAN ALIVE UNCLEAN. Many is faithful the Latter-day Saint parent who has sent a son or a daughter on a mission or otherwise out into the world with the direction: 'I would rather have you come back in a pine box with your virtue than return alive without it.'"

Samuel:

Would your parents and family, rather see you come home dead, in a pine box, than immoral? I sure hope not!! That is sick and disturbing in my opinion and I'm just blown away by these teachings and disgusted.

Samuel:

Again, everything I'm quoting to you, says that opposite of what you're saying. You may believe what you are saying, but it's obvious that the Mormon Prophets and Apostles do not believe as you do and believe exactly what I've quoted.

Samuel:

Do you personally believe this? I think these teachings are pure evil and would lead the youth or anyone to depression and suicidal thoughts and even suicide. What do you think?

Taylor:

The point is, being true to God and being True to the faith is more important than willfully giving up. There are situations where a person can do nothing about what is happening and that case God will take care of things.
Samuel:

So, you do agree with Kimball? You would want a loved one in your family to fight the rapist and die, then to play dead, let him rape her and live? Is that what you're saying? I hope it isn't, but you seem sympathetic to this teaching.

Samuel:

This is some awful stuff man, it really is and I think about my young daughter and I can't imagine wishing her dead, EVER.

Samuel:

I don't know how anyone can defend it in the name of God or their church...I really don't. Do you have kids? Do you hope they die if they are attacked or that they do what it takes to live? I just don't get it at all.

Taylor:

***Well I don't think the teachings of the Church would lead anyone to suicide or depression if they follow the teachings. I would never wish either of these things on anyone.***

Samuel:

So a woman that is raped, can actually be committing a sin, if she doesn't fight hard enough and she is literally "better off dead?"

Taylor:

Also I believe these prophets were referring to adultery not rape in this book.

Taylor:

No, not at all. These prophets are just emphasizing the importance of morality. The rapist victim is never at fault.

Samuel:

I disagree...if a young person is raped or has sex and then they read this book and the horrible quotes in it, that would easily lead to depression and possibly suicide, especially in a very impressionable young person. You can't see that?

Taylor:

The church teaches that and ***it has programs to help those who have been raped or suffered any kind of mental or physical suffering.***

Samuel:

Actually, as I said above, Kimball actually says they are innocent "if she has not cooperated" and "contributed to the foul dead." So how does a woman contribute to "being RAPED?"

Samuel:

What kind of programs...."better off dead" programs?

Taylor:

She doesn't contribute.

Samuel:

Well, I guess you disagree with your former Prophet Kimball then, which I'm glad to hear.

Taylor:

***Let me transfer you to someone else. Just a second....*** (I then sat there for about 5 minutes waiting, after saying the comments below, that I didn't want anyone else. It was obvious that they were moving me to the 2nd or 3rd level of contact, since I was blowing the mind of the pathetic level one missionary. I'm pretty sure that they changed missionaries on me at this point.)

Samuel:

why?

Samuel:

I don't want to talk to anyone else?

Taylor:

Okay.

Samuel:

Let me ask you this...my friend tells me that General Conferences are considered scripture and he invited me to watch the last Conference with his family, which I did. Is it true that what they say is considered scripture?

Samuel:

You can't or don't want to answer my questions anymore?

Taylor:

Yes, what the prophets and apostles teach are received by revelation, and are considered God's word for us today. What did you think of what they said?

Samuel:

They said a lot of good things and I learned a lot. I noticed they really stressed tithing and forgiveness. I really loved the talk by one of the apostles about cucumbers and how they become pickles...that seemed very inspired.

Taylor:

I am glad that you enjoyed what you heard. What did you feel as they spoke?

Samuel:

But the reason that I ask if Conference talks are considered scripture, is because, while doing my research of Miracle of forgiveness and the quotes, former Mormon Prophet Heber J. Grant was quoted regarding this "better off dead" teaching and doctrine and I traced the quote to a Mormon General Conference in 1944, from the Tabernacle in Salt Lake City, which would be considered scripture, right?

Samuel:

Well, I'll assume that it is considered scripture and He said: "There is no true Latter-day Saint who would not rather bury a son or a daughter than to have him or her lose his or her virtue-realizing that virtue is of more value than anything else in all the wide world."

Taylor:

***Virture is of more value than anything in the world, including life itself.*** Before you get excited about that let me explain.

Samuel:

okay...you are just confirming everything I've been quoting, you really are.

Taylor:

Let me try and explain it to you, if you don't mind.

Samuel:

yes

Samuel:

Go ahead

Taylor:

We should never willfully compromise our own standards, and when able, to remain true to God and His commandments.

Samuel:

I know you are going to explain it, but why would I want to join a church that teaches me and my children, that they are better off dead than immoral? As I said above, I find this incredibly evil, vile and destructive. I hear the suicide rates are very high in Utah, would this be why? Are people killing themselves, because the Mormon Prophets and Apostles have told them to, even in General Conference talks? Can you help me understand this? Do you believe it yourself?

Taylor:

I am trying to help you. Please listen to what I have to say.

Samuel:

So, in cases were we are faced with death, rape or immorality, we should choose death?

Samuel:

Sorry, I'm just so upset and angry about this

Taylor:

I understand.

Taylor:

Let me give you an example.

Samuel:

okay

Taylor:

When a woman is enticed by someone and submits to him having the opportunity to escape or to decline, then it isn't a true rape situation. It is that situation President Kimball is talking about. When there is a choice, we should always choose to be clean.

Taylor:

Now, most rapes, are not that case.

Taylor:

Women are physically forced.

Taylor:

The trauma itself numbs them to their situation. They have no will in those situations. They are innocent, and are the victims.

Samuel:

Yeah, but he says point blank:

Samuel:

"it is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."

Taylor:

What constitutes a struggle? Only God is the judge of that.

Samuel:

Plus all of the other quotes I've given you, stating that you are better off dead clean, that alive unclean and that any Mormon Parents would rather see their son or daughter dead in a pine box, than immoral. Do you agree with these highly disturbing teachings?

Samuel:

"Many is faithful the Latter-day Saint parent who has sent a son or a daughter on a mission or otherwise out into the world with the direction: 'I would rather have you come back in a pine box with your virtue than return alive without it.'"

Taylor:

Being unclean is referring to wilfully submitting and compromising standards.

Taylor:

It does not refer to those who have attempted in vain. Again, God is the judge of that.

Samuel:

Even your current Prophet Hinckley, in 1969, reiterated this teaching, when he talked to a soldier in Vietnam, and he told Hinckley that his Mother would rather he come home dead than immoral. Hinckley agreed...

Taylor:

You are misunderstanding what is meant by being immoral.

Samuel:

Okay, well, what if you have a kid or a friend or loved one that goes out and has sex with someone, willingly...are they better off dead?

Samuel:

I understand perfectly what is meant by immoral. I'm 32 and a father of 2 and you don't think I know what immoral means? That's fairly insulting, it really is.

Taylor:

Samuel I apologize, I did not mean to offend you.

Samuel:

No problem...I'm just saying that you don't have to be a Mormon or a genius, to know what Immoral means....I think most people in the world understand this...it's not some new term.

Taylor:

The point is, that the standards and commandments and being faithful to God, is more important than life itself. When it is it a clear choice between life, and being faithful to God, it is better to be faithful to God. The reason for this, is we believe in a life after death! This life is not the end.

Taylor:

Those that die being faithful to God, are received by God.

Taylor:

Most of us, however will fortunately never face that situation.

Samuel:

So this life doesn't matter that much, because we'll live on the other side? I'd like for you to tell that to someone that has lost a child or a loved one.

Taylor:

I didn't say that this life was not worth much. I said our faithfulness to God is worth more.

Taylor:

That shows you how important it is to be faithful to God!

Samuel:

I also read in the September 1981 Ensign, in the message from the Prophet:

"You young people, may I directly entreat you to be chaste. Please believe me when I say that chastity is worth more than life itself. This is the doctrine my parents taught me; it is truth. It is better to die chaste than to live unchaste. The salvation of your very souls is concerned in this."

Taylor:

Life is very important!

Samuel:

"Please believe me when I say that chastity is worth more than life itself."

Taylor:

Samuel, being chaste is being faithful to God, in that sense it is more important than life. A woman raped, is not unchaste.

Samuel:

So, the conclusion I'm reaching here, is that you and your Mormon Church and leaders, do indeed believe that people are better off dead or in a pine box, than immoral...this saddens me greatly, being a Christian man. I don't know how any church could teach these awful things and it certainly isn't from Christ, that's for sure!!
(The meltdown now begins for Taylor)

Taylor:

Samuel, I think you are missing the point and are taking this way out of context. We seem to be going in circles.

Samuel:

I've given you how many quotes stating this? 5? I mean it's undeniable and not a religion that I want any part of and I will spread this word to others, because it is so wrong and outright evil.

Samuel:

I'm taking it out of context?

Taylor:

Yes

Samuel:

Do I need to re-post each quote and let you respond to each one?

Taylor:

***When faced with the two options, either unfaithfulness to God, or death, it is better to die.*** (BINGO!!)

Taylor:

That is what is meant.

Taylor:

If people are immoral, they can repent!

Taylor:

That is what the miracle of forgiveness is. Christ died and suffered so that those who make mistakes can indeed repent.

Samuel:

So, they are all saying it, you agree with it, but it doesn't mean what they are actually saying...it's something completely different? Who's talking in circles? I'm stating facts, things that I've found and read in Miracle of Forgiveness, an official Mormon book, from a former Prophet.

Samuel:

Yeah, but what if they are dead before they repent, because after reading that they "are better off dead in a pine box than immoral", they kill themselves in shame?

Samuel:

It's hard to believe that anyone would defend these teachings, it really is.
Samuel:

If it's all about Christ and what he did for us, why would they teach something so awful, when they can repent as you say?

Taylor:

Samuel, you are not listening to me.

Taylor:

People can repent in this life.

Samuel:

No, it is you that is not listening or using any common sense or decency.

Taylor:

Anyone who is immoral can repent!

Samuel:

My wife was raped when she was younger and I'm glad that she didn't die fighting off her rapist and now I read that Mormons believe she should be dead and I'm deeply offended as she is, rightfully so. He said what he said and he meant what he meant and it's disgraceful!!

Samuel:

When they speak of being immoral, they are speaking of sex, fornication, adultery, masturbation, etc, etc, and nothing else.

Samuel:

One other thing...why does Kimball teach on page 78, edition 19, that masturbation leads to group masturbation, which leads to homosexuality, which then has a "snowballing" effect and leads to bestiality? Do you believe this too?

Samuel:

I mean seriously, the deeper I dig on the Mormon religion, the uglier it gets and I'm shocked by what I'm finding. How could anyone believe this nonsense and such evil things like this.

Taylor:

Samuel, I am not goin to address this. I have tried to talk with you, but have not made any progress. ***I invite you to read the Book of Mormon(BINGO!!) and pray to God to know if it is true.***

Samuel:

Why won't you address my last question? What does the Book of Mormon have to do with any of this?

Samuel:

Will that answer all my questions that I've asked you? Does the Book of Mormon address the masturbation-group masturbation-homosexuality-bestiality teaching of your Prophet Kimball?

Taylor:

The Book of Mormon is a testament of Jesus Christ and is proof that God called Joseph Smith to be a prophet.

Samuel:

Why would I need to pray about any of this, when it's all so wrong and evil? Common sense tells me it's all false, especially with better off dead teachings.

Samuel:

So, what are you saying, if that's(the BOM) true, then everything else I've talked about today is true too?

Taylor:

Samuel, your interpretation of it might not be, but the what was original taught is.

Samuel:

So everything Kimball said is true...the quotes by McKay, McConkie, Grant, etc? It's all true?

Samuel:

My interpretation?

Taylor:

In their original intent, yes.'

Samuel:

Better off in a pine box dead? Give me another interpretation please...

Taylor:

I have tried to explain it to you, but you do not listen.

Samuel:

Actually, it is you who does not listen or have any common sense at all.

Taylor:

I tried, you refused to listen.

Taylor:

I wish you the best, and hope you have a wonderful day!

Samuel:

It is sad to see someone so blinded or brainwashed, to the point of actually wishing people were dead in a pine box, than immoral by Mormon standards. How can you defend these horrific teachings and feel good about yourself? This religion is a complete disgrace and so are you for defending it and these evil, vile teachings....you should be ashamed of yourself Elder Taylor. These are the fruits of Mormonism and I will spread the word to everyone I can!!
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Anyway, I'll just let you guys comment on this. Amazing isn't it, how very few of my questions or the quotes were even addressed and then in the end, it all came down to "I invite you to read the Book of Mormon and pray to God to know if it is true." WTF?!!

The BOM had absolutely NOTHING to do with any of my questions at all. This shows what a pathetic cult they are. After reading other's chats with these missionaries, they all got the same exact response I did, no matter what they were bringing up and that was of course to read and pray about the Book of Mormon.

In other words, NOTHING any of us say even matters if the BOM is true. Joseph Smith can be a child rapist, a murderer, a thief, a pedophile, a fraudulent treasure hunter, an adulterer, a pervert, a polygamist, a liar, a fraud, etc, etc, but it doesn't matter, because if the BOM is true, Joseph Smith was a true Prophet of God and the Mormon cult is the one and only true cult on earth.

So, intelligence, logic, common sense, facts, truth and reality have nothing to do with whether Mormonism is true, as it is STILL and ALWAYS HAS BEEN about that Goddamn burning bosom. What a joke and what an embarrassment for those that buy it and have ZERO ability to get out when they learn the truth and facts.

Nothing has changed since my mission and I wonder how long they can keep this bullshit racket going, since we are now living in the Internet and information age, where there are no more secrets and the truth regarding the fraud of Mormonism is EVERYWHERE and spreading fast, like that big rock, rolling through the earth that Mormons love to compare themselves to all the time.

At some point they, the Mormon cult Hierarchy, are going to have to change their modus operandi, or the Mormon cult will stagnate completely, only keeping those in membership, that have been brainwashed since birth. Considering their extremely poor retention rate now, that's about all they have at the moment anyway and it will only get worse.

In the very near future, I'm going to try to spread the "Mormon Truth" in Argentina even more than I and my friends already have and little by little, these other countries, province by province and town by town, are going to learn the "real truth" about Mormonism and get the hell out.

Keep up the great work all you ex-Mormons out there and let's help free those that are currently in bondage to this damn cult, that are questioning and help all the future converts, that are currently studying or will be studying with the Mormon missionaries not to join.

Thanks everyone for your continued support and all that you do!!

Samuel the Utahnite