I love how Gordon B. Hinckley says that the Church never gets involved in politics but then I read the following from their "official policy":
Same-Gender Marriages:
The Church opposes same-gender marriages and any efforts to legalize such marriages. Church members are encouraged "to appeal to legislators, judges, and other government officials to preserve the purposes and sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman, and to reject all efforts to give legal authorization or other official approval or support to marriages between persons of the same gender"
When it says this in their official policy, that they encourage Church members "to appeal to legislators, judges, and other government officials", I call that getting politically involved. By encouraging their members to do this, they are in fact getting politically involved not to mention, encouraging their members to be bigots. We know as a fact that they spent millions in California and Hawaii to fight against gay marriage. It was organized through the Stake Presidents and Bishops. I sadly must say, that I used to agree with the Church and was opposed to gay marriage.
During the time I was in the process of learning and leaving the Church, I read two things that impacted me immensely and showed me the error of my ways. One was a letter from a former Mormon Bishop to Boyd K Packer in regards to his gay 13 year old son. The other thing, referenced in the letter, was a talk given at BYU, later turned into a pamphlet, by Boyd K. Packer called "To The One."
I was horrified to say the least and immediately realized that my views were wrong, heavily influenced by a homophobic, anti-gay Church and my entire perspective changed 180 degrees. It was very emotional for me to realize how I had allowed the Mormon Church to influence me so much as to make me basically a bigot and homophobic. I was sickened and saddened for who I had been, but then relieved to know that I had learned the error of my ways and that I wasn't that person anymore.
I felt like I was born again that day and became full of love, compassion and tolerance like I'd never had or felt in my life. I couldn't believe how evil the Mormon Church really was in regards to their anti-gay teachings. They are truly an abomination and the opposite of inspired by God!! Jesus taught tolerance and loving your neighbor, etc, not hate and intolerance. So, if they are truly the Church of Jesus Christ, then why do they teach the complete opposite of what Jesus taught? It is disgusting and repugnant!!
Also, I had read where Hinckley admitted in his interview with the San Francisco Chronicle that he didn't know if gay people were born that way or not, just that they had a problem. Then Boyd KKK Packer also admits that he doesn't know what causes it. So, their official stance is, "we don't know why people are gay", yet they want to punish them and not let them be together, marry or have sex for the rest of their life.
They claim to speak with the authority of God, yet they don't even know why people are gay? I'm sure that if they had any connection whatsoever to God, that God might try to help them out on this one. This just further proved to me that they indeed had no link whatsoever to God or any inspiration whatsoever.
Hinckley's SFC Interview:
http://www.tungate.com/GBH4.htm
**correction**-The SFC Interview touched on the Churches opposing gay marriage, etc but the actual quote that I referred to above was in the Larry King Interview from December of 2004. The actual question and answer were the following:
King: But as the morales have changed - for example, I know that the Church is opposed to gay marriage.
HINCKLEY: Yes.
KING: Do you have an alternative? Do you like the idea of civil unions?
HINCKLEY: Well, we're not anti-gay. We are pro-family. Let me put it that way.
And we love these people and try to work with them and help them. We know they have a problem. We want to help them solve that problem.
KING: A problem they caused, or they were born with?
HINCKLEY: I don't know. I'm not an expert on these things. I don't pretend to be an expert on these things. The fact is, they have a problem.
KING: Do you favor some sort of state union?
HINCKLEY: Well, we want to be very careful about that, because that - whatever may lead to gay marriage, we're not in favor of.
We - many people don't get married. Goodness sakes alive. You know that.
Many people who have to discipline themselves. If they transgress, they become subject to the discipline of the Church. But we try in every way that we know how to help them, to assist them, to bless their lives.
KING: It's hard to be a Mormon, isn't it?
HINCKLEY: No. It's wonderful.
KING: Not hard.
HINCKLEY: No, no. It's just wonderful. It's demanding. Great expectations. I should say so. But it's wonderful.
Here's the link:
http://www.tungate.com/2004_dec_lk.htm
Anyway, I just thought that I'd share these two things that helped me so much for anyone else out there that hasn't had a chance to read them. Get out a tissue for the first one and then get prepared to be very angry for the second one.
The Bishop's letter: http://www.lds-mormon.com/hardy.shtml
Boyd KKK Packers anti-gay talk: http://www.lds-mormon.com/tto.shtml
Samuel the Utahnite
that is ridiculous. Gays should have just as many rights as the rest.
ReplyDeleteI am a former LDS member myself, i am also a Lesbian in a domestic partnership. I was still a member when I came out and was dating a fellow LDS Lesbian. when I finally confronted my Bisop he told me I had a few options, one was evergreen and the other was excamunication. I chose niether of the two, instead I chose to uproot myself from my friends and family and start a new life, as me just me for who I was and what I stood for. I stand for equality and respect. Sadly the church drove me away at the young age of 19. I am now almost 21 and very happy with the choices I have made. I still talk to my family but they say it is hard for them to see me in this life style.
ReplyDeleteIn reguards to the statements you have posted and shared on this page it was refreshing to read. The letter to Boyd K. packer i had never read or heard of before now. but while reading it I noticed it sounded like me when I first decided to come out to my fellow church members. It hit close to home for me.
so anyways all in all, I think that the LDS church means well but doesnt do anything to support their fellow members. all they seem to do is try to fix things without trying to understand them first.
the LDS LGBT people have rights and we have voices and we should be heard and not hidden. and one day they will see the end, and I hope with all my might that there is a big fat rainbow at the end shining down on them all...
(samantha) hitava@gmail.com
I am a 19 year old member of the LDS faith, and I disagree with you. I'm sorry that you have left the church and misunderstand it's teachings so much. It seems to me that your grasping on every bad thing you can think of without looking at the good.
ReplyDeleteThe LDS church is against Gay Marriage because it is an attack, or can lead to an attack on good things like the family and relgion. Homosexuality is a sin, it has been since the beginning of time and forever will be, there are accounts of it in the bible, it is the abomination in the sight of God. But just like any other sin, it is recognized by the church and by God. The LDS church hates the sin, just as it hates the sin of alcoholism, or lying, but not the sinner. We are not intolerant of gays or wish to take away their rights. We just want to protect the sacred institution of marriage and the family.
Also there is the matter of what the passage of gay marriage can lead to. It changes the very definition of marriage from the union of two people, mind, soul AND body, to the union of "persons", which just means that the two people care for each other. The only difference between marriage and any other relationship is it's ability to unite a man and a woman on all three levels. No matter what Gays argue they cannot do this. If you were to change the definition of marriage to just a union of persons, by passing Gay Marriage laws, what's to stop it from progressing in the future to more than one person, polyamory.
Also if Gay Marriage is legalized then it can put pressure and take rights away from churches. We have already seen this in Massachusetts where Catholic owned adoption agencies have either had to go against their own teachings and knowledge of truth, or give up their license, because they won't give children to Gay couples. Other methodist churches have been stripped of their tax exempt status because they won't cater to Gay couples and their wishes.
We know in the LDS church that the family is the main unit of life, and that stable families with a loving mother and father are the most able to rear children with high morals and values. Sociologists have also established this fact. And our Government depends on those types of citizens. If families are unstable it increases the need for government aid and service which then gives the government more power and could lead to tyranny.
Gay marriage if legalized, will be forced upon children in schools, and if these childrens parents are against Gay marriage then these kids will be taught that their parents are bigots and discriminatory. What rifts will then come between father and son, mother and daughter, of people all around the nation, not just members of the LDS faith.
As you see the issue of Gay Marriage is far greater than just a fight for rights between Gays and the LDS Church. It is a moral issue, and a public social problem.
The church has asked that the argument on the issue be civil and polite and has kept their part of that request. The opponents of Gay marriage on the other hand have slanderized the church by making ridiculous ads on TV and other places, showing the church as a monster and bigots.
I hope this comment has been of some help, the Church is all about loving our neighbors, we love these people, but we know that the way for them to be able to acheive the highest level of happiness, is to live righteously before God, and have the opportunity to have a family, the way God meant for it to be done, with a mother and father and children.
I know these things to be true, and no insults or persecution will convince me, or millions of other members of the church otherwise. This is our testimony, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
Rubie Elizabeth-
p.s. I hope that you will have the decency to post this, I know you can chose not to, but to be fair you should allow all people to voice their opinions on your blog. thank you.
Hi Rubie,
ReplyDeleteI have to respectfully disagree with your precipitated conclusion that Samuel misunderstands the church's teachings. Had you taken the time to read his profile, you would see that he spent over 30 years in the church, served a mission, went to BYU and was obedient to the teachings. I too spent over 30 years in the church, attended BYU on an athletic scholarship, had a father who was a Mormon bishop for 8 years, and blindly followed for all of my youth and much of my adult years without ever questioning the life I was living and the tactics used to gain my obedience. It is a BIG MISCONCEPTION that everyone that leaves the church must have left because something "bad" happened to them or they misunderstand what the religion is about. In my case, and I am assuming in Samuel's case as well, that could NOT be further from the truth. You see, it is only when you TRULY DO understand and have really examined the treacherous teachings that you are able to see the "bad" as you refer to it. But when you don't accept that there can be and IS "bad" then you are allowing them to control your life, even when the damage that is done with that control is monumental. If your eyes are not opened to it and you are blindly following, of course, you will only see the good - which is EXACTLY what they are hoping for and counting on; the blind followers that obey.
I must also FERVENTLY DISAGREE with your reasoning for the church's stance on gay marriage. You are greatly discounting the fact that gay couples DO have families, DO have love, DO have commitment. How in the world can they be "attacking" something that they are participating in? How awful that you think this is an "agenda." Don't you see that they have the same dreams and hopes of building long-lasting relationships and families as any straight couple would? I also find it so curious that the bible is brought into the discussion. It's such a cop-out. It really is. If you want to start calling out bible references, then you MUST call out ALL of the inerrant parts of the bible - NOT ONLY this small section (Leviticus 18:22) that refers to homosexuality.
For instance, let's start with Leviticus 20:9 -
"For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him."
Shall we start lining people up for execution? Because according to your bible - it SAYS we should. Imagine what would happen today if we killed every child who was disrespectful to his parents.
Or this one:
"If a man lies with a woman during her sickness and uncovers her nakedness, he has discovered her flow, and she has uncovered the flow of her blood. Both of them shall be cut off from her people." (Leviticus 20:18)
Imagine what would happen today if we deported every man and woman who had ever had sex together while the woman was having her period.
Have you ever had a ham dinner? Or bacon for breakfast? (I'm a vegan, so I guess I'm good on this one - ha)
"...and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:7)
Or how about shellfish. Ever been to Red Lobster, Rubie?
"But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you." (Leviticus 11:10)
"The shellfish shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination." (Leviticus 11:11)
I think you would agree that there are MANY scriptures in the bible that you DO NOT adhere to, yet you don't preach from rooftops that they are sins. Why is it that you focus on Leviticus 18:22 so fervently? I believe that it is only so you can justify your prejudice and bigotry towards gays. You think it's so easy to spout out, "well, the bible SAYS SO, so we must obey." Yet, you do not hold subsequent instructions to the same regard. That just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe you can explain? Or is it that you really just want a justification for your disgust at the thought of gay people who love each being together??
You say that the LDS church HATES sin, but it seems to me that they hate SOME sins MORE than others, right? A sin is a sin - so why is one SO MUCH more important than the next??
I find THIS statement of yours truly laughable:
"We are not intolerant of gays or wish to take away their rights. We just want to protect the sacred institution of marriage and the family."
You most CERTAINLY ARE intolerant of gays and you DO want to and DID TAKE THEIR RIGHTS AWAY with the passing of Prop 8. How can you honestly say you don't WANT to take rights away when the WHOLE agenda was to do JUST THAT???? Do you understand what Prop 8 was? Did you support it? Then your statement above is a LIE!!
The California constitution already ALLOWED gays to marry in the state of California. The passing of Prop 8 TOOK THAT AWAY!! This was NOT a preventative amendment. The rights were there and NOW they are not. So what you said makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Please don't say that you want to protect the "sacred institution." Don't you understand that a religious wedding and a legal marriage are completely DIFFERENT. My husband and I did not have a religious figure marry us. We did not pledge our love in front of some invisible man in the sky. We entered into a marriage in the civil sense. Of course we love each other, but that marriage certificate is NOT a bond with god. It is a social institution under which two adults establish their decision to live together in a legal commitment. Don't force YOUR image of marriage onto people that do not believe it has anything to do with religion or imaginary higher beings; because under the Constitution, religion is completely left out of the equation and when you are thinking of it in regards to laws & rights, YOU need to separate that as well.
Your argument that if gay marriage is legalized, it will take away rights from churches is completely false!
Before Mormons helped to RIP AWAY rights from gays, the actual court decision regarding marriage specifically says “no religion will be required to change its religious policies or practices with regard to same-sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs.” This is an actual quote FROM the court decision. It cannot be any more clear, Rubie, can it be? If you see some discrepancy within this, PLEASE present it... because what you are saying is the same old, tired rhetoric that they used in campaign ads to try to "scare" fundamentalists into voting yes.
I now must contend with this statement of yours:
"We know in the LDS church that the family is the main unit of life, and that stable families with a loving mother and father are the most able to rear children with high morals and values."
Oh really? Is that all there is to it? Well, what must we do with single parents then, or widows/widowers, divorcees, or infertile couples? I do believe that there are examples of all of these family units within the LDS church. That seems very wrong to me to diminish their importance. Not to mention the fact that you are completely disregarding the fact that gay couples can and DO rear their children with high morals and values. In fact, I would think that teaching your kids not to be bigots and not to discriminate against certain groups of people would be a very important value indeed!!!
Once again, another of your statements is false, when you say:
"Gay marriage if legalized, will be forced upon children in schools" - NOPE! Wrong again, Rubie!! Don't you see that gay marriage WAS LEGAL already. Gay couples WERE married and getting married and none of these ridiculous statements you are making in regards to school instructions were going on. What was miraculously going to change? Nothing! The Yes on 8 organizers merely tricked people into thinking that things would suddenly change if they didn't strip away rights from gays; when in fact, gay marriage was already happening and there was NOT an epidemic of "gay issues being FORCED on kids at school." Not to mention the fact that the Superintendent of CA Schools, Jack O’Connell, assured parents that Prop 8 has nothing to do with education. What more do you want!!!??
You say that children's parents who are against gay marriage will be taught that their parents are "bigots and discriminatory" - ummmm... YEAH, they are! So either deal with it and face the fact that their kids will hear this said about their parents - or STOP being discriminatory bigots and you won't have to worry about that.
You say that "the issue of Gay Marriage is far greater than just a fight for rights between Gays and the LDS Church. It is a moral issue, and a public social problem." Again, you MUST learn to separate YOUR morals with law, legislation and the Constitution. NO church has the right to enforce their morals on society. You might wish it could be that way and you might feel superior because 85% of Americans are Christians. But you are forgetting a little thing called "SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE." As much as you wish this country was a theocracy, it is NOT and you must learn to keep your religious beliefs separate from laws. The constitution protects us from this. The founding fathers knew what it was like to have a church trying to tell them how they could live and they were trying to escape that. So when it came time to write the Constitution, they were SPECIFICALLY CAREFUL to protect us all from that ever happening again. They had seen it happen before, could foresee churches like the LDS Church trying it again in the future, and had the intelligence and fortitude to be sure that it could not happen. Just because the "majority" votes a certain way and THINKS they know what is best for society, the majority simply is NOT always right. It was not long ago that the "majority" thought it was ok to own slaves. It was not long ago that the "majority" thought interracial couples should not be allowed to get married. It was not long ago that the "majority" thought women should not be allowed to vote. But as you can see, sometimes the "majority" has bad ideas and lucky for us, the Constitution protects us from this "majority rule," as well as churches being able to force their beliefs onto society. I mean, if Mormons had it their way, nobody would have the choice to drink coffee, or drink alcohol, or shop on Sundays. These are things that the Mormons are just as adamant about upholding as they are with protecting from the horrors of gay marriage, yet you don't seem to trying to take these things away from society. If we let Scientologists instill THEIR morals on society, then their belief that psychiatric drugs should not be legal and thus, done away with, then the "Prozac Capital of the Country," otherwise known as Utah, would be quite offended and extremely depressed. Or if we let Jews instill their dietary rules on society, where meat cannot be eaten with dairy products, then many a Mormon casserole at a potluck relief society meeting would have to be thrown in the trash. Simply put, a church just CANNOT enforce their moral beliefs onto the society in which they live. That's what your worship services are for. They do NOT have a place in legislation and societal laws - they just don't!!
You say that the church has been slandered, yet everything spoken about them in advertisements is true. I find it interesting that you just can't handle seeing the church that you love so much exposed for what they really are. You are hurt by the church looking like a "monster," yet you think it's ok to vilify gay people and make it seem as though they have an "agenda" and are trying convert their children to the "gay side." Maybe it hurts to look in the mirror and see the truth, right? It's so much easier to cry "persecution" because it's your religion they speak about. Why can't you step outside of your box and see it for what it really is?
The church likes to paint the facade that they are "all about loving your neighbors," but the fact that you fall for this is apparent proof that they have worked their brainwashing magic on you, Rubie. You need to delve just a little deeper into what your beloved religion is really about. You need to examine the roots of the church's history and really study your scriptures. If you do that with an OPEN MIND, it won't be long until you see the hypocrisy and ridiculousness of the organization you are dedicating your life to. Gay people are and can be happy. They have an immensely more difficult struggle to achieve this when organizations that hate them and don't want them to be free, equal and fulfilled try SO HARD to stand in their way. Please reevaluate your ideals of life, family and happiness without the Mormon blinders on. You will see that the rhetoric used to win your brain over is so old and archaic. Use your mind and THINK about things. Think about love, think about fairness, think about equality. If you do, you will understand that the church stands for exactly the opposite of what you wish it did and have always been told that it does.
I know these things to be true. It is my testimony, in the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
- Jinxi
thank you jinxi. you blew it away ! i am a lesbian catholic who has drifted away from the church but still has belifs. i also have a LDS brother who just got back from his mission. i have come out to almost everyone i know but him (since he just got back and hasnt been up to date with everything). im hoping that even though he is strong in the church he will still be able to understand where i am coming from and still love me as part of his family. thank you for all of your input and help. i will use all of the information from you and the rest of the posts to the best of my ability !
ReplyDeleteCourtney