This is truly another amazing story and example of what the Mormon cult is really all about, at its core. Lyndon Lamborn has been excommunicated by his Stake President, for simply discussing with others, like family members, "the real truth" of Mormon history, found in "official Mormon sources" and I felt that everyone should read this story and have a place to comment on it.
I can't wait to hear what you TBM/Mormon apologists have to say, in defense of your cult this time. There's already a Mormon apologist nut-job(ironically using the name "Mystified Mormon") going to town over on the East Valley Tribune website and I get nauseated just reading his excuses and justifications of his Mormon cult leaders.
I guess to you clueless clowns, NO Mormon leader has EVER said or done anything wrong and they are literal deity, right? Oh yeah, but you don't worship your leaders, rather Jesus Christ, right? What a joke!!
Anyway, it's good to be back writing on my blog and I apologize to everyone for my long absence, while I was dedicating myself to getting my YouTube videos up and running strong, which they now are.
In just over 2 months, thanks to all of you out there, I've had over 240,000 hits and over 7,000 comments, on the 142 videos now posted there, along with 157 subscribers, which will continue to grow and help expose the Mormon cult for the fraud it is.
I also want to give a big thanks to Chimyron, Demon of Kolob, JHuston7, Elder Joseph, Bringumyoung and all of the other ex-Mormons who are doing an outstanding job over on YouTube and other places, exposing the Mormon cult through their videos and allowing me and others to post their videos, while also posting my videos and commenting on them. The greater the exposure, the better!!
I'd also like to give a special welcome to Euilibrium83 who just joined the mix by exposing his former, asshole, masturbation and fear obsessed mission president Allan Pratt, who presided over the France Toulouse Mission. I'll be posting those videos here in the next day, so that you can watch them all here, so check back.
Anyway, you'll all be hearing a lot more from me in the next few days and future, as I'm going to once again dedicate myself to my blogs, podcasts and Skypecasts, with a lot of exciting things coming up, which I'll be letting you all know about soon.
Here is the article regarding Lyndon Lamborn's experience with the Mormon cult's witch hunt of him, ensuing excommunication and then their goal of public humiliating and trashing of him, his character and family. The Mormon Hierarchy's goal, is to publicly DESTROY, DISCREDIT and EMBARRASS anyone that discovers the "REAL TRUTH" and then talks about it publicly, with others or even their own family.
Like Lyndon says in a comment, responding to the article:
"When I first confronted my bishop about my findings and questions, he immediately went into 'damage control' mode. I mentioned in confidentiality that I had been discussing the issues with my brothers. The following week, my bishop had contacted the bishops of ALL my brothers, and they each received a visit from the 'Men In Black'. I honestly felt I was in 1939 Nazi Germany. Real life is stranger than fiction!"
Like Hinckley always says..."isn't it wonderful?!!" NOT!!
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Mormon Ousted As An Apostate
Lawn Griffiths, Tribune
Being excommunicated for apostasy by the Mormon church is one thing, but Lyndon Lamborn is livid that his stake president has ordered bishops in eight Mesa wards to take the rare step of announcing disciplinary action against him to church members today.
“I thought if he could go public, so can I,” said Lamborn, a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who said his research into church history gave him “thousands of reasons the church can’t be what it claims to be.”
Stake President R. James Molina acknowledged Friday he intends to have Lamborn’s excommunication announced to the wards at men’s priesthood meetings and womens Relief Society gatherings, even with Lamborn now taking his case public. Molina, as well as officials at church headquarters in Salt Lake City, call such a public warning about an ousted member extremely rare.
They say, however, church members must be protected from what discordant ex-followers may say to damage the church.
In a letter to Lamborn dated Sept. 2, Molina noted that a disciplinary council had been held Aug. 19 and excommunication was ordered. Lamborn, 49, a Mesa resident who has been a priesthood leader for 20 years, was informed he was no longer a church member, could not “enjoy any membership privileges, including the wearing of temple garments and the payment of tithes and offerings.”
He could attend public meetings if his conduct is orderly, but would be denied giving any talks, offering prayers, partaking of the sacrament or voting.
“Because of the nature of your excommunication and your involvement with people in this area, an announcement will be delivered to the Melchizedek Priesthood quorums and Relief Society in each of the wards in our stake ... on Sunday, September 23, 2007, that you have been excommunicated for apostasy,“ Molina wrote.
“We need to let people know if there is a danger to them, such as him teaching doctrine that is contrary to what is taught by the church,” Molina said Friday.
Lamborn, a member of the Thunder Mountain Ward, said his Mormon roots go back generations, with a great-grandfather in the famed Mormon Battalion that trekked from Iowa to San Diego in 1846 and 1847.
Lamborn served a two-year Mormon mission in 1977-79 in Belgium, was elders quorum president four times and led a Mormon Boy Scout troop. Most recently, he said he was assigned to teach older men in his ward and held other roles.
But everything changed in early 2005. Lamborn, an engineer employed at Boeing in Mesa for nearly 25 years, was asked by a work colleague about the wives of church founder Joseph Smith. She had read “Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith” by John Krakauer and asked Lamborn if what she had read was accurate.
Smith, the first LDS prophet and president, had at least 33 wives by many accounts.
“Well, I had no knowledge of multiple wives, so I did some research, including using the church’s own genealogical Web site, familysearch.org,” Lamborn said.
He found the information concurred with the book. “Nonmembers seemed to know more about the personal life of Joseph Smith than me,” he said.
Lamborn conducted further research, which led him to question many church teachings. He said he went to Molina with his questions, but received no definitive answers.
Lamborn has been attending the three-hour ward meetings with his wife and 16-year-old son. His two daughters, 22 and 24, “are totally out of Mormonism.”
He said he learned that his five brothers “were doing the same research and arriving at the same conclusions” and doubts, he said. The same was true for his best friend since childhood. In a meeting earlier this summer with Molina, Lamborn acknowledged that he wanted to give up his church membership.
“I was planning to leave the church quietly, but was denied that opportunity, presumably because I was speaking openly to other members about my findings and (was) writing things down,” Lamborn said.
Lamborn has compiled his research into a lengthy testament called, “Search for Truth 6/07,” in which he states: “There comes a time in the life of many church members when the desire to know the truth about the church becomes stronger than the desire to believe the church is true.”
He said he intends to continue to accompany his wife, Nancy, to ward services. “It is tough to go, tough to attend, but I enjoy the fellowship,” he said.
He said he has no desire to join another church, adding that the Mormon faith has many merits, such as its strong family values and its internationally recognized welfare system to help those in need.
The public announcement of his excommunication will be toughest on his wife, Lamborn said. “There’s the embarrassment,” he said. “Friends won’t know how to treat her. The awkwardness. It is going to be tougher on her than anybody.”
Clark Hirschi, manager of the area relations division in Salt Lake City, said Friday he talked to Molina after the stake president was contacted by the Tribune.
“Despite the fact that he has told you this is going to happen, it is up to the priesthood leaders,” Hirschi said. “There may be a letter read to some of the adult members this Sunday. It might be in a few weeks. It may not happen. That is going to be at the discretion and call of the stake president.”
Hirschi said he has never been in a meeting in his own 20 years as a Mormon where a public announcement about an excommunication has been made. He said he had only heard of one being made in a neighboring stake.
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I tried posting the following comment over on the East Valley Tribune site, where the article is located, but I guess the comment is too long, as it wouldn't allow me to post it.
Anyway, here is the full comment that I wrote, addressing this issue and publicly inviting Lyndon to come on the "Mormon Truth Podcast" and tell his story:
Lyndon, I first want to say that I'm sorry your going through this and I also commend you on your courage to take on the Mormon cult and their lies regarding their true history and teachings, which they pretend don’t even exist, were never taught, etc. I also came to same shocking conclusion you did back in 2005, once I discovered “the real truth” regarding Mormonism and it’s history, teachings and doctrines.
I’ve spent the last 2 years of my life, time and money, passionately writing on my blogs, recording podcasts and posting videos, that expose the Mormon cult for what it truly is. The horrific racist teachings of Brigham Young(along with many other Mormon Prophets and Apostles) regarding blacks being cursed as “the seed of Cain” and “cursed with a flat nose and black skin”, “being literal representatives of Satan on earth” was what put me on the path to “the real truth.”
It was devastating to me and my family and I’ve lost several family members and friends from my life for asking them simple questions like, “did you know that Joseph Smith was a polygamist?” They told me that I should be ashamed of myself for speaking such lies about their beloved Prophet Joseph Smith(who only had ONE WIFE EMMA and who would never do something so awful and evil), especially being a returned missionary and they cut me and anyone that associates with me, out of their life instantly....as it was just that simple for them, as the church ALWAYS comes first, even before family and loved ones..
My niece had just been taught in seminary that year, that polygamy started and ended with Brigham Young and was just to help out the widows. And some of you Mormons out there wonder why people don’t know that Joseph Smith was a polygamist? Where does the Mormon Church and hierarchy, in it’s official history, books, manuals or teachings, state that Joseph Smith was a polygamist.
In 30+ years of membership, including lifelong, devout church attendance, 4 years of seminary, 2 months in the MTC and 2 years on my mission and 5 years at BYU institutute...never once did they teach a single word about Joseph Smith’s polygamy...so don’t be so quick to judge us Mormons. When have they ever discussed publicly, the polygamy of Joseph Smith and details of who his wives were, how old they were, that they were happily married to other men, etc? Have they ever taught this in General Conference? Why not?!!
I challenge ANY of you die-hard Mormons and Mormon apologists out there reading this(melting down and screaming LIAR...LIAR), to go to the official Joseph Smith website...JosephSmith.net...and show the world where it openly discusses Joseph Smith’s other wives and emphatically states that Emma WASN’T his only wife and that it wasn’t just a “Joe and Emma” love affair, as they present to the world. I then want you to explain to everyone why there is no mention of his other wives, on the “official” Joseph Smith website, if they are indeed so open and honest about it and have NOTHING to hide.
Oh, by the way, My wife and her entire family were also lifelong members and had NEVER heard about Joseph Smith’s polygamy and the same is true for almost all of my family and friends, who have called me a liar and cut me off, as they are taught to do. Just associating with or sympathizing with an “evil apostate” like me or Lyndon, is forbidden and will get you excommunicated, because we’re so dangerous with “the truth” we now know.
In fact, on the interview with Larry King, when asked about polygamy, current Mormon Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley said “I condemn it, yes, as a practice, because I think IT IS NOT DOCTRINAL. It is not legal. And this church takes the position that we will abide by the law.” “It is not doctrinal?” Really? What was Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and all the others doing then?
Oh and by the way, it was illegal back in their time and they were clearly violating the laws of the land. Also, why did Joseph Smith publicly deny and lie about being a polygamist till his death, calling those that accused him of it to be perjurers? So, Joseph Smith is a proven liar, using his own words...and I again challenge anyone to prove what I’ve said to be false!! Warren Jeffs is the modern day version of Joseph Smith, following Joe’s teachings to a perfect T and if Joe was around today, he’d be rotting in prison and on trial too, just like his buddy and follower Warren Jeffs.
These are the lies that Lyndon and all of us ex-Mormons/apostates are talking about, that terrifies the Mormon cowards/apologists like this Stake President R. James Molina, who is a disgrace in the cover-up of the Mormon cult and all of the skeletons in their closet, that are currently falling all over the ground, for the world to clearly see(which the Mormon hierarchy denies repeatedly). Does Jimmy actually believe that Lyndon is lying? Really?!!
Does Mr. R. James Molina even know that Joseph Smith was a polygamist, married to 14 year old Helen Mar Kimball, against her will and that of her mother, holding her entire family’s eternal life and destiny in the balance, basically threatening her and her parents with damnation and fear?
What about all the happily married women, as mentioned in the article, that Joseph Smith forced to marry him? They don’t exist either, right Mormons? So Familysearch.org is also lying and now considered to be anti-Mormon as well?
Yes, us apostates are the liars and completely delusional, right? How can the Mormon Hierarchy and leadership consider “OFFICIAL MORMON DOCTRINE and HISTORY” to now be anti-Mormon? Maybe they should be excommunicated for lying about it every single day? Aren’t they just condemning and further embarrassing themselves in their attempts to blatantly lie and cover-up further than they already have?
So, you can now be excommunicated from the Mormon cult for just discussing their “actual, real history”, that is currently being sold and profited from at Mormon owned and run Deseret/Seagull and BYU bookstores? Shouldn't they seriously be held to the same standards as the members are and be excommunicating themselves, starting with Gordon B. Hinckley and Sheri L. Dew, for even allowing this evil “anti-Mormon literature” to be sold at THEIR bookstores? Give me a break!!
If we aren’t even allowed to even discuss “REAL, OFFICIAL” Mormon history now and will be singled out and publicly excommunicated for it; why should they be allowed to sell it and profit from it? What HYPOCRITES!!
Lyndon, I want to offer you the opportunity and forum to be able to tell your COMPLETE, UNEDITED STORY to the world through an interview on my "Mormon Truth Podcast", available to the world through my blog and iTunes. Just follow the link here to my main blog, which links to my podcasts or Google “Mormon Truth” or “Mormon Truth Podcast” and you’ll easily find me, my blogs, podcasts and Email address if you are interested. There will be no time limit and you can either just record your story yourself, on your own time and forward it to me or do an interview directly with me. You can also search the term “Mormon”, under “podcasts” on iTunes and find my 4 podcasts in the top 25.
The 3 part interview that I did with Joy was very revealing, as she was able to tell her story of how they treated her and her gay friend, who eventually, through his depression, tragically committed suicide. Joy’s father is currently married to TWO LIVING WOMEN(divorced civilly from her Mother), at the same time, in the Mormon temple, which is another secret the Mormon Hierarchy desperately try to cover up(despite Hinckley having to sign off on it and approve of it), that proves they still believe and allow polygamy as we speak.
Lyndon, I get over 30,000 downloads a month of my podcasts and growing and this will be a GREAT opportunity for you to get your story and experiences out there, for all to hear, if you would like to do that. I just wanted you know that you will ALWAYS have a place to tell your story when you're ready and that I'm 100% in support of you and on your side!!
Thanks again Lyndon for having the courage to go public and tell the world “The TRUTH”, about the Mormon cult and how they’ve treated you, I wish you the best and I hope to hear back from you soon.
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As always, I look forward to everyone's comments!!
Samuel the Utahnite
I applaud your efforts to spread the word of the ridiculousness and fraud of the Mormon cult. I feel for Lyndon and those in his position because I know precisely how it feels to be a devout Mormon and come to the realization of the utter sham of Mormonism while your wife has not or cannot. Unlike you, I was not a lifelong Mormon. I was a lifelong Christian and even briefly a member of the clergy. I was an active Mormon for about fifteen years after I converted in the late seventies. Although I realized after ten years that the Mormon Church is based on lies, I stayed with it to keep peace with my wife. Eventually I could not live the lie any longer. In the early nineties I asked to have my name removed from the roles of the church. Even then the brethren had to convene a Bishops court that ended in my excommunication. They want there to be as much stigma and suffering as possible for those who make the decision to leave. I rejoined the church for my wife's sake a couple of years later because the pressure on her was too great. To rejoin after excommunication requires an interview with a general authority. It was amusing to me that he warned me that God would reveal to him any insincerity on my part even though nearly everything I said to him was a lie. Since then I have merely discontinued my involvement. I am sure that some day the brethren will learn of my apostasy and make a huge deal about it. I'll probably be excommunicated again. Perhaps my wife will be more prepared for it then. I haven't kept my feelings and thoughts a secret from her.
ReplyDeleteMy own blog is aimed more at the absurdity of the entire concept of religion and God but I recognize the unique problems of Mormonism. Lyndon touched on one of the main reasons many people refuse to even look at the evidence against Mormonism. It is very family-oriented and the community is generally close-knit and supportive. The Mormons do take care of their own. The Mormon people are generally wonderful people aside from their delusion but woe unto those members who dare to speak out against it. Anyway, keep fighting the good fight.
Cheers
Welcome back I have a few emails about this article some currents are scard by what they did to Lyndon and having it happen to them.
ReplyDeleteWelcome back
ReplyDeleteHi Samuel ,
ReplyDeleteI can see the Mormon Cult has fired you up again ! they are so good at getting people angry and then wonder why the Leaders are hated so much ....
Its amazing how yet another devout member like Lyndon Lamborn has found out the real truth of the church after all this time ... i think there are loads of members who are getting to hear the real history and are on a very fine line between staying and making a clean break from it .
You can only go so long with the real truth when the various meetings will actually start to annoy you as I've found recently .At first it was easier going to church after finding out it was all baloney as I was having some fun , but after a while it starts to make you angry and thats when the exit comes ...
The church is loosing its faithfull lifelong members and by excomminicating people I think its not doing them any good really . At least Lyndon will remain on the bogus membership figures as he didn't have the chance to resign before hand , but I bet they still count the resigned ones as well !
Its started to fall apart and the sooner the better ....and hopefully we get rid of the Big Asses in life like Allan Pratt Mission President who gets Porno Pop ups on his PC ( seemingly from LDS.org )unless he's been browsing elsewhere ...lol
Good post, Samuel. I have also caught on to this story through the postmormon.org message board. Someday I will get enough time to join you on youtube and make some videos, or learn how podcasts work.
ReplyDeleteWhen I left the church, I was just starting to tell my bishop some things about church history that bothered me, and he was shoveling out his standard 'read, ponder, and pray' spiel. I looked him straight in the face and told him that if this was the best advice he could offer, then I might as well leave now, because reading and studying and praying is what got me to this point in the first place. I never came back to church after that, and sent in my resignation letter a few days later. What happened to Lyndon could have happened to me just as easily, as I have NEVER been quiet about Mormonism since. My TBM family avoids the topic and sometimes 'forgets' to invite me to family gatherings, so I won't cause a 'contentious spirit'. I haven't managed to convince them to leave yet, but I keep on blogging anyway. I haven't been in contact with anyone from the ward in the four years since I left (the closest ward is a 30 min drive and most everyone that attends comes from out of town somewhere else) so I doubt that I would have been deemed much of a threat to the rest of the group, since I ceased attending. I think the SP in Lyndon's case new fully well that he intended to keep attending services, and that's when he decided to shove a cork in Lyndon's mouth by excommunicating him first, thereby discrediting him and limiting his influence. Ironically, doing that made the church more vulnerable to scrutiny, and to exposing the very secrets they seek to protect their members from learning, like Lyndon did. And he got punished too, didn't he? He is no longer ALLOWED to wear the sacred underpants. He is no longer ALLOWED to pay 10% of his income to the church. He is no longer ALLOWED to be assigned talks, teach classes, give prayers, or comment in class. Sounds to me like he just got a vacation AND a raise!!
I hope he is doing well, and that his wife will join him one day in leaving the Cult of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Vacation and a raise ... Love that. I have my own big long story to tell. I was excommunicated when I was 26 years old. An elder showed up on my doorstep instructing me how to vote against, obviously, the Equal Rights Amendment and I told him not to darken my doorstep again. I could go on and on and some day will. I am now 61 years old. I started deconstructing the Mormon church when I was 14. Oh wow, that's the same age as Joseph was when he invented this nonsense. I am so glad to see so many people coming to their senses at last
DeleteI just can't thank you enough for all of your efforts in getting the word out about Mormonism. You really have done your homework. I was born and raised a Mormon and I now am a Christian. I hope that one day I would be able to get the word out as strong as you are. I wish I could view your videos more often than I do, I have slow internet connection. Yahoo!!! for you.
ReplyDeletehttp://mormonnomore.blogspot.com
Not trying to offend but as an official Jack Mormon, I am surprised that you did not know about Joseph Smith's wives. I didn't think I had any special fountain of knowledge though I knew that info from a very young age. Now, many details I am certain I still don't know.
ReplyDeleteThis is Lyndon Lamborn. I took a straw poll of my High Priest Group, asking how many knew that Smith had married at least 20 women in this life. As I recall, no hands were raised, and there were about 20 present. Russell Bowers spoke up and said that he had been taught that Smith had many women sealed to him after his death, but was unaware of the marriages in the flesh. This is exactly what I had been taught, and I spread this lie as a missionary in France and Belgium. I feel bad about it.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, based on the data I have gathered, I would guess that less than 25% of the TBM membership is aware of the polygamy, and fewer than 10% are aware of the polyandry. If anyone has better data, I would love to see it.
Mr Samuel the Lamanite, I think I am ready to do the podcast or whatever you have in mind. Things seem to have settled down. Contact me at lclamborn58@yahoo.com.
I found your site via your posting of Sean Wakeland's Documentary "Legacies"
ReplyDeleteSince you have mentioned people who have run afoul of the LDS church for speaking of history this may site may be of interest. (and a podcast guest)
http://connellodonovan.com/lgbtmormons.html
His site said that he was excommunicated in 1991, not sure if that was for being gay, or his research into homosexuality and the LDS church.
I just came upon this site and have read some of the comments quickly. I find it incredable that life long LDSers never knew that JS had multible wives. Don't people read any history? Once people start reading about organized religion of any stripe one realizes the atrocities committed in God's name. I personally question anyone who claims they know the truth about God. The quest for truth is what makes man spiritual and trying to take the parts of what so called prophets taught that enable man to better himself and those around him are worthy goals but placing blind faith in any man is dangerous at best.
ReplyDeleteAs a recent discoverer of this blog, I've tried not to comment but can't help myself on this topic. As a young woman in seminary I asked many of these questions and was given less than satisfactory answers.
ReplyDeleteD&C 132:52 52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
Black and white, from the "mouth of god" Emma was commanded to allow Joseph to have multiple wives.
v 54: "...But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law."
Maybe the men didn't grasp that, but as a 14-year old young woman, I sure did.
As a grown adult over twice that age now, I greatly appreciate the things that never sat right with me being discussed openly.
Thank you for your voice. It doesn't go unheard. There are always witnesses.
It's too bad that you have such a negative perspective on the churches history. In my experiance when I have come across doubtful feelings about the Church all I had to do was pray about the question and immediately I was edified with a strong assurity that the church is true. I searched harder for the answers to even the hardest questions and always left with peacefulness in my thoughts about the church.
ReplyDeleteI would say that it is easy for a person to find false statements about the church, but I am up for the challenge to find the truth that lies under the surface, and it comes to all of us word upon word, and precept by precept, Here a little and there a little.
There are multiple reasons why members become dissatisfied with the Church. Whatever your reasons may be, it all started from small and simple things that develops over time, and then eventually leads to "falling away" from the faith. I too have done extensive research into the early leadership, and doctrine of the Church that is somewhat shaded, but I always take a step back, and look at the bigger picture, the Church as a whole, and cannot deny the truthfulness of the Gospel. I have prayed for it, and I feel it, and have literally seen it. It is sad that as soon as members get out of the Church, they do not find "neutral ground." They're intention is to weaken or destroy the Church, no matter the cost. This has been prophesied. So I am not the least surprised. Just want to thank you though for all the partial and misrepresented truths that you have written. They do nothing, but solidify my convictions of the Gospel. Perhaps, you don't know that you are probably helping the honest and pure in heart to be more refined, and to come into the Gospel.
ReplyDeleteWhow!
ReplyDeleteAs a member of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints I was very ignorant up unitil 2-3 years ago about Mormonism being equel to despotism. I've been introduce unwillingly to the world of Mormonism by the conversion of my brother. I had a bad feeling about it to begin with.
Everything you say about Mormonism being controling is correct as far as I can see, having never been a member of the Utah Mormon church...
To my thinking, Jesus Christ allows men to come to Him, or go of their own free will.
James 1:5 says the God will never upbraid us... So you see, Mormonism marketed in Jesus Christ's name, when put into practice in truth is antichrist and contradicts Biblical teaching.
When a church tries to control it's memberships thinking and actions, to my thinking it smacks of the satanic.
That said, I wanted to insert my ten pence upon how many of you use the English Language around one particular word. The word is Cult!
If you want to call the Mormon church a bad name, use the word Ocult!
The word Cult, by Websters deffinition means Church, Organization, Lions Club, The Masons, Rotary Club or any organizations who upholds an ideal or belief... In short the United States of America can by this deffinition be considered a cult!
I know you probably don't care. But I do. Words contain great power to influence. Only my poor hummble opinion! Let me suggest we get our words and deffinition right people!
You can't call the Mormon church a cult/church and expect people to shiver in their bones!
That said, you've done wonderful work!
Sincerely
James Brian Marshall
To Just A Girl: You obviously don't understand how to read scriptures and how to figure translation. You skipped like HALF of that entire quote that you posted in D&C. Yes Joseph was commanded to take in multiple wives and God stated that he would be as Abraham(who also had multiple wives) in order to help the Church grow. Emma was commanded to 'cleave unto her husband' even though he was commanded to partake of such a hard task of taking in widowed mothers and wives. As hard as it was for her, she still obeyed. I understand it would be hard for ANY wife to hear such a command. I KNOW that Joseph Smith was a prophet. You may have 'grown twice your age' but you're still half as smart.
ReplyDeleteAll you ignorant people who have 'done research' have the lost the true principle of how to gain a divine witness....which is to test their fruits.
And JAMES, I have family in Missouri and i've spent time among the RLDS Faith and you guys are so complacent and such pushovers that you let the doctrines of ''today's'' Christian Faith dictate your belief. You're church denied the Book of Mormon just so you can get financial help from the Christian Coalition? Shame on you! I've been in your swirly temple in Independence and it's not sacred at all....when in all the history of Temples become a art museum?
And can you explain this?
"James 1:5 says the God will never upbraid us... So you see, Mormonism marketed in Jesus Christ's name, when put into practice in truth is antichrist and contradicts Biblical teaching"
Mr. Lamborn...you are utterly retarded! You were in the Church for soooo long, served a mission, attended BYU, and have NEVER heard of Joseph Smith practicing polygamy? You must be both deaf and blind! I am a devout member of the Faith and have known that for the longest time. It still doesn't shake my Faith. From the outside looking in, anyone can be disguisted at the practice of having multiple wives. But the lesson is this....when someones math level is basic geometry, you don't give them a calculus book and tell them to teach out of it. The same principle stands here! You are so ignorant and hopeless, that you speak as if you've done 'all the research in the world' to prove the church is wrong.
ReplyDeleteYou can try and try, and like they say in the scriptures, 'kick against the pricks' but the time you've invested is worthless and will do you no good. The Lords work will move fowrard WITH or WITHOUT you.
The stake president is wrong for announcing your excommunication publicly. I apologize for that. But Nowhere in the church manual does it state that it's done that way. ITS NOT. So don't take one event and blame the whole church as if everyone practices the process of excommunication that way.
I feel bad for your wife and kids.....
I decided that the Mormon church wasn't for me at about age 15. Up until then, my mom forced me to go to church and every event even if I was deathly ill. My entire family on my mother's side is Mormon and they have even published a book of their lineage to prove it. At any rate, I read the book "Stolen Innocence" by Elissa Wall, who although she is FLDS, it hit on a lot of points that I didn't understand growing up. It took a long time to get rid of the church as far as "Visiting Teachers" busting down my door as well as my mother updating my phone and address with the church every time I moved. That has finally stopped. I married a black man 18 years ago and we have two children. With me leaving the church and "marrying out of my race," we are no longer part of my mother's family. She has never acknowlegded my kids as being her grandkids. Has anyone ever experienced this behavior where the religion means more than family? I would think that they could just fake being Christian! Growing up Mormon, we always considered ourselves Christian because we believed in Christ. This is beyond any Christian behavior I know of!
ReplyDeleteThanks for the blog. I see that it's several years old and my comments are thus after-the-fact.
ReplyDeleteBut, nevertheless ...
I'm so sad for the situation that Mr. Johnson has to go through. I commend him for sticking by his wife and not letting his issues with the LDS church destroy his marriage. That is noble and courageous.
That being said ... it is such a said state of affairs when a person is persecuted for seeking the Truth. The Truth should not be something that we are ashamed of. The Truth is not a shame. The truth should be something that is what we all want and seek to find. It's not something we want to hide under a barrel and pretend is not there.
I just don't understand how a people who claim to be Christian (or are "the Truth" for that matter) aren't open to discussing the Truth. Or at the very least don't welcome someone elses quest in that most noble of quests. It blows my mind.
If the LDS Church is true ... as It itself claims ... it should have nothing to hide. It should embrace inquiry. Otherwise ... something stinks.
The Truth shall set you free.
I am an avid student of Church History. I will freely admit that I have uncovered things that disturbed me. But the same can be said about almost any other institution. Where many people stumble is that they try to judge the past based on the culture of the present. They find isolated incidences and then cast judgement on the whole. This is very dangerous.
ReplyDeleteI am fortunate to know Richard L. Bushman, the author of Rough Stone Rolling personally. His son, Karl, is one of my best friends. Dr. Bushman is an LDS apologist, as I am, but he does not sweep historical facts under the carpet.
Was Joseph Smith a polygamist? Undeniably. Did he marry married women? Almost for certain. Lucy Harris was one. What were his motives? That is anyone's guess. But you have to look at his whole life and the life of his followers. You mention the Whitneys and the Kimballs. If they were so shocked about plural marriage, then why did they not lose their faith? They did not. And many others did not. In fact, both Newel K. Whitney and Heber C. Kimball became polygamists, even though the idea was initially repugnant to them.
You want to use anti-Mormon accounts as primary sources. Why not look at the people and what they said at the time? We are fortunate that there were so many avide journal writers in the early days of the Church. Have you bothered reading their accounts? Wilford Woodruff, Parley P. Pratt, William Clayton and many others wrote extensively about the subject. Are you giving fair sway to their writings?
When studying history, you must be very careful. Don't let your Church membership be threatened by one alarming revelation. I would suggest that you do as I did and read many accounts. Ponder about it. Pray about it. The Apostle Paul said, "By their fruits, ye shall know them."
You cannot deny some of the mighty miracles that have happened to the Mormon people, even after polygamy. How do you account for the miracle of the quail? How do you account for the great priesthood power that Joseph Smith exhibited to help bless the sick Saints in Commerce, Illinois? And this was after he took his first plural wives. How do you account for the miraculous way the Saints tamed a desert and built a civilization? By their fruits ye shall know them.
I don't know why the Lord commanded plural marriage. The leaders including Joseph Smith knew that this law would bring about even more severe persecution. The main source for the Church's persecution in Nauvoo was due to rumors of polygamy. Read the first and only issue of the Nauvoo Expositor. That's what William Law, former Second Counselor in the First Presidency, was all upset about. Joseph introduced the principle to him and he freaked out.
I could go on and on. I have read about it, studied it, reread about it, and prayed about it. I am at peace. I truly believe that the Lord introduced the principle for a variety of reasons, chief of which was to try his people. Heber C. Kimball and Brigham Young took plural wives of all sorts. Many were widows who did not have the ability to provide for themselves. Some were young British converts. Some were Joseph's own plural wives. I chose a certain path to review history. I would suggest the rest of you do the same. Don't be intellectually weak and only listen to what critics might say.
I don't know why this guy didn't already know about the past in regards to polygamy, nor do I know why you make it sound like the church is covering it up. In "Church History In The Fulness Of Times student manual Religion 341 through 343 second edition", which happens to be published by the church. Pages 424 through 450 talks all about the entire incident. It's not a secret, on the contrary it is a published fact that plural marriage can, and does exist in the in the Celestial Kingdom, even though not many people speak of it, no one is disputing that. What President Woodruff did by making his declaration effectively ending the ability of a man to take care of more than one wife at a time on Earth. Marriage is Celestial, and that bond is eternal, so if a man marries, then for some reason the couple has to be "unsealed", and he remarries it may count as him only having one wife on Earth, but Heavenly Father still considers that to be him being married to two women for eternity. That is what the original intent of the revelation was. If you notice it was only Joseph Smith's first wife Hale that wasn't destitute, or a widow, same with President Young. President Woodruff just reworded it. It's like what happened in the 1970's in regards to men of African descent obtaining the priesthood, it took an act of revelation to make it more clear. After all that you have said I still have a testimony that the church is true, and Thomas S. Monson is a prophet to help and guide us today.
ReplyDeletePolygamy has NEVER been of God (Jacob 2:23-24, and Jacob 3)
ReplyDeleteJoseph Smith's unrepentant, lustful, controlling actions caused the church to be cursed for four generations. Basically, he experienced seven good years influenced by God (equal priesthood of women and all men, no polygamy, no masonry, no alteration of the Book of Mormon, etc.) and seven bad years influenced by Lucifer (polygamy, masonry, revoking priesthood of women and black, control, lies, blood atonement, alteration of the Book of Mormon and Book of Commandments with the added D&C132 fiction).
Today the church is Babylon as foretold by Isaiah and fulfills 1 Nephi 13 as the "MOST Great and Abominable Church" due to the abominable actions and follies of Joseph Smilth.
He was warned in D&C 3:1-11 against "following his own will and CARNAL DESIRES or he would FALL". He did FALL!
Award-winning LDS historian D. Michael Quinn (excommunicated due to his report regarding the full priesthood given to women in the early PURE years of the church), documents that Joseph Smith repented of polygamy and masonry in Origins of Power, pg, 655 and 656. However, when Joseph Smilth FAILED to flee to the Rockies to complete his repentance, fearing man more than God, and went "like a lamb to slaughter" then had ALL of his sins come back on him. Thus he died in a fallen state, similar to the life of King David who also got into polygamy, murder, etc. although called of God.
The church is condemned for its "follies and abominations which it does do...saith the Lord" (D&C 124).
The "Cleansing of the Lord's House" prophesied through the waking up of the blindly-obedient members. D&C 112, D&C 64, began with the "whirlwind" that hit downtown SLC, UT in 1999 as prophesied in D&C 112.
There are thousands of artifacts which validate the Book of Mormon as seen upon research of the "Hopewell Culture" which parallels the same timeline of the BoM. It is the BoM which prevents more people from fleeing the "Great and Spacious Buildings". Truth Seekers are leaving the church in droves and hopefully, hold to the rod of the word of God and don't get into the "muddy waters" as prophesied by the Lehi and Nephi's visions.
The wicked King Noah/President of the Church was the "type and shadow" of wicked King Hinckley (ac/dc, murderer, thief who justified stealing from wealthy members through the satanic oath of secrecy and consecration to the church ~rather than to God who taught us to NEVER swear an oath as required in all LDS temples "as it comes from evil".
Please use the scriptures to wake up the "Saints" as the Book of Mormon is a warning of the apostasy that the "most great and abominable church" is now in!
www.mormonstruth.org, www.bridgingtruth.com www.originalbookofmormonrestored.com www.stopzion.com www.citiesofpeace.com
(Jesus IS God the Eternal Father ~ Alma 11:23-40, Mosiah 15:1-5, Ether 3:14 and all over in the original BoM which was altered in 1837, 2nd printing by the "learned men" as the church took out the "plain and most precious truths" of God! (1 Ne 13, etc.)
The LDS church IS the MOST corrupt OCULT church on the earth today and is under condemnation by God and will fall!
Gag me! Tommy Monson attempted to rape Gail Smith while he was a Bishop! Gail has told the exact same account of this for years. She also mentions that Bishop Monson told her, "Don't you know that I'm going to be the Prophet some day"... This was NOT prophesy, but rather the elite's use of satanic Masonry, bloodline, and authenticated CIA MKUltra mind control (exposed by Senator Frank Church in 1979 ~research on the internet).
ReplyDeleteWhy does Tommy act like a child? Much like Michael Jackson, Marilyn Monroe, or why Marie Osmond admitted to sex abuse as a child and focuses on her dolls with children messed up due to what they have experienced.
Research the deplorable controlling actions of Tommy who has never prophesied anything and you will see that he is an example of the "liars and hypocrites" that will be removed by the people as seen in D&C 64.
Hi!,
ReplyDeleteBrian Marshall again!
No Joseph Smith never was commanded to take multiple wives. Here is why.
One must consider there there is a lie told by the Utah Church. The lie is polygamy. The Book of Mormon testifies against this lie in seven major places. (Jacob Chapter 2 RLDS D&C,/ Jacob 2:23 LDS ) not being the least of these.
God calls multiple wives an abomination. God is an unchangeable God. ( see Malachi 3:6 ) Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever, see( Hebrews 13:8 ).
If God does not change, but obeys His own laws of righteousness, why would He command Joseph Smith to commit an abomination?
So who lied? Did God lie? Did Joseph Smith lie? Or did the Book of Mormon and D&C lie?
If God lied, according to all scripture, He would cease to be God. Being He God lacks the infinite ability to remain on one eternal course of truth without end, without change. Without playing games with people souls. Without lying.
If Joseph Smith lied, then Joseph Smith lied against the Book of Mormon, committing the unpardonable sin, not only denying the Holy Ghost, but teaching against the Holy Spirit which gave utterance, that same Spirit which gave us the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants. Of which that same Holy Spirit of truth confirms the 2 Books true.
But there is a real problem with the two books. The Utah Book of Mormon teaches Polygamy is evil without exception! The Utah LDS D&C section 132 contradicts the Book of Mormon. Where as the RLDS D&C and Book of Mormon adheres to the original copy writes? How can this be?
Getting back to who lied... If Joseph Smith taught a doctrine against the Book of Mormons teachings, then did Joseph Smith truly believe in the Book of Mormon? By everything Joseph Smith said and did, it would seem he did.
But everybody LDS says Joseph Smith did teach polygamy as a revelation.
If this is true this makes Joseph Smith a lier, a fraud and a false prophet!
Aha! But what about Joseph Smiths prophecies which he declared would come to pass, which did come to pass? Does that not prove he was inspired of God?
My answer is yes it confirms Joseph Smith was inspired by God. A man cannot predict and foresee the future accurately, without contact with Him who is without time, Who knows all, and sees all, even before it comes to pass.
So Joseph Smith could not have been a false prophet. Which proves he also was not a lier.
So how come Joseph Smith was commanded by God to teach,preach and expound upon the doctrine of polygamy as being Holy and of God? Joseph Smith never taught such.
I submit you some interesting quotes from Joseph and Emma Smith dealing with polygamy. They both agree.
Emma Smith said:
"No such thing as polygamy, or spiritual wifery, was taught, publically or privately, before my husbands death,that I have now, or ever had knowledge of"
( Emma Smith Feb 9, 1879, Church History Vol. 3, p.355. )
Joseph Smith said:
"I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives.... I am innocent of all these charges....
What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers."
Tyson Kuresa said...
ReplyDeleteTo Just A Girl: You obviously don't understand how to read scriptures and how to figure translation. You skipped like HALF of that entire quote that you posted in D&C. Yes Joseph was commanded to take in multiple wives and God stated that he would be as Abraham(who also had multiple wives) in order to help the Church grow. Emma was commanded to 'cleave unto her husband' even though he was commanded to partake of such a hard task of taking in widowed mothers and wives. As hard as it was for her, she still obeyed. I understand it would be hard for ANY wife to hear such a command. I KNOW that Joseph Smith was a prophet. You may have 'grown twice your age' but you're still half as smart.
~~~~
Joseph didn't have a "hard task of taking in widowed mothers and wives." He was a man of the flesh who couldn't keep it in his pants. His second wife was Fanny Alger, the nanny of his and Emma's children. By all accounts, Emma adored her and treated her as a daughter, until Joseph knocked her up (having previously secretly "married" her without Emma's knowledge) and Emma drove her from the house.
Quite a number of the women he was married to, had living husbands they were happily married to.
I may still be half as smart, but at least I'm smarter than you and willing to look for the truth and question what's being shovel-fed at me. It's called independent thinking. You should try it sometime.
Emma said are husband did not practice polygamy. She truly did! And that's the big-short of it ... the beginning and the end. I for one choose to respect Joseph's wife; they are one.
ReplyDeleteAs for Abraham and Sarah and what D&C 132 has to say about it, I know that it is false doctrine for the Lord has revealed the Love Story of Abraham & Sarah to me. And here's how it goes ...
God did not command that Sarah give her handmaid to her husband (as otherwise stated in Doctrine and Covenants 132). Sarah did that all on her own … by her own FREE WILL. "For God had Forgotten Sarah. And when He turned around and Saw that she had given her handmaid to her husband, God WEPT … because He Realized that He had Forgotten her. And He said to Himself, “I’m sorry Sarah, but don’t you worry … because I’m going to make things right. And you’re going to become a Symbol of the Handmaid of God, herself!” And then God called down to Abraham and He said, “Abraham … with you I am well pleased … because you have loved and obeyed your wife … and that makes you CHOICE among men. So I’m going to make my covenant with you. And your wife Sarai … she’s going to have a Son in her old age … and his name shall be Isaac.
"“And Abraham took a second wife, after his wife Sarah had died, and her name was Keturrah. Now Keturrah had some big shoes to fill … because of Sarah. Sarah might as well have been the Mother of God in the eyes of Keturrah … because of Isaac. And every time Keturrah saw Abraham look at his son, Isaac, Keturrah knew how much Abraham had loved Sarah … and it grieved Keturrah so. 'If only God would do unto me as he has done unto Sarah,' Keturrah said to herself, 'then my husband will love me as much as or as equally as he did Sarah.' And so, one by one, time and time again, Keturrah brought her handmaids to her husband, Abraham. And each time Abraham obeyed his wife … for he truly loved her … and to refuse her would have been a humiliation for her as it would have been for Sarah. (For to offer your handmaid to your husband was a grievous act, indeed, done out of desperation and to be refused in such … utter humiliation and thus death by grief). But, what Keturrah could not produce in one son, she tried to produce in many sons, so it happened, through her own womb and the wombs of her handmaids. But, none … even in sheer numbers … could ever match the brilliance of Sarah’s son, Isaac. For as much as Isaac is a Symbol of the Christ, so to is Sarah a Symbol of the Handmaid of God … and Abraham …”- the Holy Ghost.
God is Love. God is Beauty.
Being an older (disaffected) LDS member, I'm amazed that there are members who don't know that JS was an enthusiastic polygamist! He STARTED polygamy in the church, for heaven's sake! I thought that was common knowledge. I had little curiosity about this earlier, but looking into it revealed a sinister morass of evil, including asshat JS marrying other men's wives and boinking them-- also a few teenagers as young as 14 (also boinked.) He was a serial sex criminal, essentially. This, and the fact that the Book of Mormon is a complete fabrication, many proofs for that.. And I am an instant non-believer. I just haven't been blabbing my findings to those around me, so no furor yet. I'd love to resign, but family entanglements wrought by this evil empire prevent that at present.
ReplyDeleteThe LDS's biggest cover up dates back to the 1857 massacre of 150 emmigrants from Arkansas at Mountain Meadows in Utah Territory. I wrote a book informed by this cover-up titled A Mormon Massacre. I'd like to present it to ex-Mormons. Any suggestions where I should or who I should contact? It's available on Amazon and I'll send anyone who wants to review it a free copy. Thanks
ReplyDelete