This will be a daily log on the happenings of the Mormon Church. I will share my opinions and viewpoints without holding back. The Mormon Church is a fraud and I will be exposing them on a daily basis. They can run and cover up but they can't hide from the "REAL TRUTH!!" Have no fear, the truth is here!!
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Thursday, March 22, 2007
The Live Mormon Truth Skypecast Begins In About 40 Minutes. Hope To See Everyone There!!
Samuel, I don't understand why you are so mad at us evangelicals. Isn't the purpose of your blog to help people out of Mormonism?
Now that we are trying the same thing, that is, to help people who are caught up in this cult, instead of supporting us, instead of helping us, you get mad at us. I don't understand your motives.
Anyway, I don't think that your exposal will have much of an impact, as the average Mormon does neighter read your blog nor the FAIR board, which is only read by a few apologetics.
Samuel, we are on your side, helping people who are deceived by the fraud of the LDS church.
Give us a chance. If you cannot be friends, at least make peace with Eric Hoffman, whom I know to have the best of intentions.
And you will see that after tomorrow, many people will leave the LDS church and its deception.
To be honest, the chances of very many Mormons leaving the church to become "real Christians" is very low. It's just like someone giving you a Buddhist DVD and expecting you to convert. Believe me, Mormon indoctrination is VERY STRONG and if they receive a DVD that goes against their church, 99% of them will end up in the garbage. So don't get your hopes up but we'll see what happens tomorrow.
I was just reading your article on Church Tithes etc on your blog .
I was looking at the churches donation record to Humanitarian Aid . According to LDS.org they donated $95 million dollars in 2004 to Humanitarian Aid .
Divide that between 12 million supposed members and it works out at $8 dollars per member for the year .
If you take out 6 million inactives and possible 2 million kids , that still makes it $24 dollars per member for that year on average .
It's hardly a staggering amount and definately not as Dramatic as the Headline church figure would suggest . Although it's really good that Mormons donate additional to their Tithes in this fund . But shows that helping the needy in these countries is not a priority .The priority seems to be funding itself as a corporation .
I don't want to critisize the ordinary Mormon though , the demands on their finances are very high and I too donate to the church's Humanitarian Aid and Fasts BUT NOT TITHE . I sometimes wonder that the average member is just being exploited.The presure to fund everything is so great .
I'm only an investigator and I brought up the 'Burning' issue ( mentioned in D&C and in the Gospel Principles book )in Gospel Principles sunday School class once . I asked does it mean Non Tithe Payers will be burned ? .. literally set on fire ! Of course no one gave an answer as usual .
I could see how weaker vulnerable people would get threatened easily from this .
I have found that despite everyone encouraging me to ask questions , they all too soon decide they don't have any answers to most of my questions .The usual excuse is we will know when the veil is removed.What will we know ? probably that mormonism was a con ! lol
Tithing is a good way to fund the church but many do get into financial difficulties . The church is so wealthy it can spend $1.5 billion on property development supposedly without using tithe money . So they must own alot of income producing assetts that members don't know about !
Does anyone ever inquire or ask . I ask but no one seems to know . I'm suspicious when finances are kept from the average member .If I was a Tithe payer , I'd like to have a copy of the main accounts including how much goes in Wages and expenses for the Hierarchy and others . They always are surrounded by luxury and expensive surroundings when I see them .
Thanks for that comment. Would you mind posting it on my comment board so that readers there (if I even have any) can see it?
And I would say that $24 per member (per year) sounds about right. Each fast Sunday they ask members to go without a meal or two and then donate the cost of the missed meals to charity. In my opinion, it is a good program. In a way, it's good that it is funded by the members, but then the church has no right to claim credit for it. Even if they matched, dollar for dollar, what the members donate it would double the amount of help they could provide, and then the church could claim partial credit for the donations. But like I said, they are a non-profit organization and so they are not in need of any tax breaks; therefore, they donate nothing out of their own pockets.
No one asks. They just assume that every penny is spent under divine revelation. Money for most people is hard to come by and if I'm going to hand over 10% to anyone, I damn well want to know where it's going.
Hi Sam, It's Keith, from the podcast last week. I saw this headline, http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2978283&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312, and tought you would get my twisted take on it. Maybe the way to end the Mormon church, is to get Moron...um...er, Moroni hooked on latte's, and then the rest will adopt it as doctrine and follow suit. They'll be so jazzed up on the 'feen that they won't be able to sit still long enough to attend anymore. Just a thought.
Even though I'm not an evangelical or "born again" christian, I get a kick out of anything that exposes the mormon church as a complete and utter fraud.
I sincerely doubt that many TBMs will bother to watch the DVD though...they're programed to avoid anything not "faith promoting" and will toss it in the trash, just like Ray said.
Ray said: the chances of very many Mormons leaving the church to become "real Christians" is very low. It's just like someone giving you a Buddhist DVD and expecting you to convert.
The difference between our campaign and a Buddhist handing me a DVD is that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior, while the Buddha was a rich kid who was sick of his boring life in the palace. As Jesus Christ himself will touch the LDS people's heart when they watch the DVD, many will turn away from their church and enter into the body of Christ. Through the power of the holy spirit, they will be healed from their ignorance and will get to know the true Christ.
Believe me, Mormon indoctrination is VERY STRONG and if they receive a DVD that goes against their church, 99% of them will end up in the garbage.
Mormon indoctrination might be strong, but Mormon opinion is often rather wavering. Take a look at a recent Salt Lake Tribune article: "Utah's LDS no longer firmly back Iraq war" http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5517138
You see that the LDS church and its members are flip-flopping. Instead of keeping an opinion to the end, they waver. So they will to with their faith.
On the other hand, evangelicals and other true Christians like baptists are strong in their determination that it was good to invade Iraq, because after the war is over and peace and democracy comes to the Iraq and Afghanistan, it is possible to send missionaries there to bring them into the flock of Christ. Most of the casualties are not Christian but Muslims; they are but pawns in the chess game of life. So you have those flip-flopping Mormons and us Christians who stand strong in the Lord.
Lets see how we will do today. Have a nice sunday.
Your comparison between Jesus and Buddah is interesting. The only reason Sidartha was a spoiled rich kid was because his father tried to hide the truth of illness, disease, and death from him. As soon as he discovered the truth, he gave up his princely life.
My question is, if Jesus is the true lord and Buddah is just a bratty kid, why do Buddhists outnumber Christians by a large amount?
You are entitled to believe whatever you want. Seeing as how I used to be Mormon, (I assume you have not) I can tell you that the only spirit they will feel is the spirit of the devil trying to lead them astray from the true church.
Their comparison will be much like yours... "Our Jesus speaks to living prophets, while your Jesus is silent in heaven. Besides, your church has apostatized and is lead by men."
I am not meaning to disagree with you. If a few Mormons find your truth to be better than their truth then great. I am just trying to help you understand how Mormons think. Just remember this, they believe their religion just as much (if not more) than you believe in yours.
Good luck today. I'm hoping a DVD ends up on my porch.
Samuel, I don't understand why you are so mad at us evangelicals.
Isn't the purpose of your blog to help people out of Mormonism?
Terrence, I'm very pissed off at you Fanatical Evangelicals, because you openly and often condemn ALL(including many of my friends and family) Mormons to literally burn in hell for all eternity and gnash their teeth with Satan, if they don't follow your way, your path, your Jesus, your Biblical interpretations...just ask your best buddy Eric Hoffman about that?
Do I need to post Eric's personal condemnation audio again?
The purpose of my blogs and podcasts, is to help people who are questioning or doubting, to get the hell out of Mormonism, and to have a place for them to come, where they can freely and openly express themselves, ask questions, learn and find others that share and understand their pain, and not be condemned to fry with Satan for all Eternity in the process. I mean hell, how low will you guys go? Love and compassion? Where?!!
Now that we are trying the same thing, that is, to help people who are caught up in this cult, instead of supporting us, instead of helping us, you get mad at us. I don't understand your motives.
My motives are to expose to the world, the true, condemning, fanatical Evangelicals that many if not most of you are, especially the ministries that are set up specifically, to condemn ALL Mormons.
Why would I ever want to help or support you people, that I now find more vile, repulsive and disgusting than even the Mormon apologists? You must be living in a real fantasy land dude!! You guys in all your gusto to openly condemn ALL Mormons to burn in hell(with love of course) for all eternity, make Mormonism look pretty damn normal.
If I had to choose between you guys and Mormonism, I would go back to Mormonism in 2 seconds, without even having to think about it and that's a pretty sad statement about you guys, considering how strongly I feel against Mormonism, as you and everyone knows.
Don't you realize the freaks that you are making of yourselves? You really think that your pathetic condemnation methods will make the average Mormon want to come over to your side? Give me a break!! And Eric says that I'm wasting my time and helping nobody? I think that would accurately describe what you guys are doing, not me.
Anyway, I don't think that your exposal will have much of an impact, as the average Mormon does neighter read your blog nor the FAIR board, which is only read by a few apologetics.
Well, according to your good buddy Eric and also Aaron, my exposing of your "secret DVD plan" is now being considered a blessing from your God. So which is it? It will have an impact or it won't? I mean you guys can't have it both ways.
First you think that Satan is attacking you guys, so that most of the other Christian churches won't help your pathetic plan and you're asking everyone to pray, that their hearts will be opened. Then I expose your plan and it turns out to really be a "blessing", but now you say I won't have any impact? Don't you see how ridiculous you sound, with the contradictions flying everywhere? I'm working for Satan, now I'm a blessing.....LOL...pick one and stick with it man!!
Who's the spokesperson for you guys anyway? Chip? Is it you? Eric? Aaron-the Mormon God the Father might have been a homosexual drag queen and oh, here's a picture of what he might look like, but hey, I mean no disrespect...really?!! What an asshole!!
Yeah, I'm sure the Mormons will love that one and feel the spirit of your Jesus/God, saying to follow you, after you mock their God. You support that too Terrance? Do you approve of Aaron's methods?
Your comments about the "average Mormon" are laughable, because you guys don't have a clue about Mormons period. The average good Mormon is terrified of DVDs like the one you are handing out and they might only watch it, due to innocently thinking it might be a good DVD, due to your disingenuous, don't talk to anyone, make it look nice approach.
Through your deception is the only way most Mormons will want to watch it and most of them will quickly turn it off and toss it in the trash once they realize what it is.
The only Mormons you might impact at all, are those that are already questioning, or have already left and trying to figure out where to go. I'm trying to help those folks realize that moving from one cult to another and then having to openly condemn all of their friends and family that are still Mormon; isn't a very good idea.
Samuel, we are on your side, helping people who are deceived by the fraud of the LDS church.
Let me be PERFECTLY CLEAR...WE ARE NOT ON THE SAME SIDE AND WE NEVER WILL BE!! NOT EVEN CLOSE!! I will NEVER support your or what you are doing, in trying to threaten and force Mormons, through more fear, to either follow you or fry like bugs.
These Mormons that are lucky enough to have escaped, are trying to escape that very fear and abuse, that they've lived with for their whole life and then you guys come along, claiming to love them so much, while condemning them. Are you guys really that clueless and heartless?!!
Give us a chance. If you cannot be friends, at least make peace with Eric Hoffman, whom I know to have the best of intentions.
And you will see that after tomorrow, many people will leave the LDS church and its deception.
Terrence Malick
I will not give you a second chance, nor a first chance as I think you guys are lower than scum, especially Eric Hoffman. Making peace with Eric Hoffman? Dude, seriously, don't make me laugh man, as you are seriously deluded and delusional and obviously don't have the slightest clue about what has gone on between Eric and I.
This man has personally condemned me, all my friends and family, everyone her in Mormon Truth and even his OWN DAD, to burn in hell forever, lose our souls forever, gnash our teeth forever, if we don't follow him.
He has personally called me "DEMONIC" and lied about me, my blogs, told people that I use pornographic pictures(girls in bikinis), and that he can "see people come to my sight just to get off."
He has personally threatened me, saying that he could reveal my true identity(which he doesn't even know) and that if he was me and knew that someone knew what he did about me, that he'd "shut up." I can release the voice mail on that one too, if he again calls me a liar publicly and claims he never said it, like when he lied and claimed with the "get off" comment.
I think it's funny that you brainwashed Evangelicals honestly think that your DVD is going to suddenly convert good, happy Mormons, over to your "my way or burn in hell highway to hell." If that isn't delusion, I don't know what is. Your DVD will have less impact than you claim my revealing of your plan had. Haven't you seen that FAIR already prepared a point by point response to your DVD?
Yeah, that would still be a couple weeks away, if I hadn't revealed your "secret plan" and I know that wasn't planned for, thus all the need for secrecy and warning that "no Mormons are to know about this or see the DVD, etc.
The difference between what you do and what I do, is what I do is genuine and I sincerely want to help people that are on the fence or that have recently left or questioning. Beyond that, I have no agenda at all. I actually allow(I know this must seem foreign to you) people to find their own path and direction and do and believe whatever they want to and to do whatever is best for their family. You however, want to reveal the truth of Mormonism and then tell them, "follow me or burn and you'll be sorry for eternity."
I'm sure that everyone out there can see the difference and see who has the agenda the size of Mount Everest and who doesn't, once we reveal the fraud of Mormonism, and it ain't me. The only reason you do what you do, is to gain more converts to your belief system and cult and there's no love, compassion or decency involved.
This DVD project was a complete waste, will be a complete bust and some ex-Mormon/Evangelical is now out around $250,000 +. Oh well, I guess as long as you guys think it was a smashing success, that's all that matters, right? I hope you come to my house, I really do!!
Oh yeah, is it true that you guys are actually going to call the cops on any Mormons that go around removing DVDs from people's doors?(as someone stated on my blog)Now that doesn't sound like Christlike love to me and in fact, it sounds pretty damn vindictive and like REVENGE!! Once again, your true colors shining through, for all to see.
Imagine that scene for a moment, in a quiet Mormon neighborhood, on a Sunday...police everywhere, Evangelicals shouting at Mormons, Mormons shouting at Evangelicals, people in handcuffs and sitting in the back of police cars....WOW!! Sounds Christlike to me!!
So, now you love Mormons so very much, that you want to get them arrested and put in jail? Just make sure that the towns where you are calling the cops...allows door to door soliciting, or you may be the ones getting arrested. Just thought I'd help you out, so that you don't make a bigger mess of things and embarrass yourselves more than you guys already have.
Please report back on how many lost Mormon "soon to burn souls", find your Jesus Christ and are saved today. How many counselors are really going to be standing by on the phones? 1 or 2? From the way you guys talk, you should have rented out the Delta Center, just to set up your call center...LOL!!
Samuel, I cannot understand you. Have you never read the bible? We evangelicals have not invented the idea that people who do not believe in Jesus will go to hell. It is a biblical teaching, and true Christians trust the bible, believe in the bible and its teachings.
You said: Why would I ever want to help or support you people, that I now find more vile, repulsive and disgusting than even the Mormon apologists? You must be living in a real fantasy land dude!! You guys in all your gusto to openly condemn ALL Mormons to burn in hell(with love of course) for all eternity, make Mormonism look pretty damn normal.
We are not living in a fantasy land, we are just stating what God has revealed to us in HIS word.
Here is what the bible teaches (mind, the BIBLE, not us evangelicals):
Jhn 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
Jhn 3:17-18: "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
Mt 9:28-29: "And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you."
Lk 11:32-35 "The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light. The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness. Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness."
Rom 3:19:"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: ..."
You see, it is not us evangelicals who condemn the world and all those who do not believe in Jesus Christ, it is the bible.
We are condemned by the law, for we are all sinners. But we can be made righteous in the sight of God by believing in our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him alone is the way to God.
True Christians like us do merely proclaim this truth which is written in this sacred texts since two thousand years, Samuel. It is not our private opinion, it is the bible which speaks this truth.
Who's the spokesperson for you guys anyway? Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior; and the Bible, his Holy Writing.
He has personally threatened me, saying that he could reveal my true identity(which he doesn't even know) and that if he was me and knew that someone knew what he did about me, that he'd "shut up." I can release the voice mail on that one too, if he again calls me a liar publicly and claims he never said it, like when he lied and claimed with the "get off" comment.
To be honest, I don't blieve you,Samuel. You are only slandering Eric, who is an honorable Christian and who would never blackmail people. Blackmail is a criminal and sinful act, and I am sure Eric Hoffman would never do such a thing. If you still hold such bold claims, prove it. I'm sure you cannot back your claim up.
This DVD project was a complete waste, will be a complete bust and some ex-Mormon/Evangelical is now out around $250,000 +. Oh well, I guess as long as you guys think it was a smashing success, that's all that matters, right? The DVD project will be a great success. Mass-baptisms are scheduled for next sunday in several evangelical and baptist churches to welcome our brothers and sisters to the body of Christ. Of course I don't know the exact number yet, but we estimate 10.000-25.000 people converting due to the DVD project nationwide. Isn't this worth the effort and money? I bet it is.
How many counselors are really going to be standing by on the phones? 1 or 2?
Samuel, you are only mocking us, and by this, you mock your Creator and Savior, Jesus Christ. I let you know that we have sufficient professionals to deal with the telephone calls and enough councelors helping with theological issues former Mormons might have when entering the body of Christ.
Ok, so much for now. For my case, this was an already successful sunday. God bless you all. Terrence Malick.
Hey, I'll let Eric call me a liar AGAIN and then I'll release the audio AGAIN, proving who the REAL liar is, AGAIN. How many times does it take? Oh wait, you don't really care, do you?
By the way guys, here are a couple links to our famous Evangelical "Terrence Malick."
What an honor to have a 2 time Oscar nominee and best director from the Cannes Film festival posting on my blog. Isn't that awesome?!! Wow, and to think I thought he was busy with his movies and stuff...LOL!! And who knew that this guy was best buds with Eric Hoffman too...WOW!!
It looks like our nutjob posters are back, using different names now. Jose, that you? Billsjane? Eric? Aaron?
Notice that they don't have a blog or anything set up? Anyway, just thought I'd let everyone know the true identity and accomplishments of "Terrence Malick", the die-hard Evangelical, who is so pumped about this DVD project.
It's my advice we that we shouldn't respond to anymore of his comments and encourage him, since he's insincere and a liar and just one of these anons that's fucking with us all once again, pretending to be something and someone that they obviously aren't. I guess it's time to go create yet another name...get a life guys...seriously!!
The thing about all the scriptures you quoted, Terrence, is that they are all based upon whether or not the Bible is true. Most of us here now believe that the Bible is BS! Therefore, quoting out of it will gain you nothing. In fact, it just makes you look like a gullible sucker. You believe anything the Bible says, just because it says so.
What proof do you have that Jesus is the true lord and Buddah isn't? Just because the Bible says so? Come on! You preach that the Mormon's scripture isn't true, but they all believe it because it says it's true. Do you start to see how your religious beliefs are really no different than theirs?
The problem, is that Mormons and Christians (if there really is a difference) both believe in a damn myth. Jesus may have been a real man but stories evolve and Jesus went from being a man to being a saviour and a god. It is impossible for anyone to walk on water and I'll NEVER believe it until I see it. Why should I believe in BS that is based on claims that are absurd?
People don't float up and down from heaven.
People can't walk on water.
No one can command the wind and the waves.
Dead people don't come back to life.
If you bother using one ounce of brain power, you will realize that it is a load of bull shit! Sorry, but there's no other way to say it. It's a lie and it has never been proven true and will never be proven true. Jesus will not make his grand appearance at the second coming. I wonder what the excuses will be in 300-400 years from now? How come Jesus hasn't come yet? I'm sure there will be a million and one reasons to justify and explain it away.
Christianity is a cult no different than Mormonism. You believe in lies and the more you defend them, the more you look like an idiot. Again, spouting off a load of, said so, scriptures is not going to have one bit of effect here. Do you have any other argument besides the Bible? Sadly, no. The Bible is thousands of years old and has no relavence at all, to us today. NONE. That is why your argument is so weak. Because it is not only based on bull shit, it is based on VERY OLD bull shit.
10,000-25,000...LMAO!! We will see next sunday who is right, you mocking Christianity or our Savior Jesus Christ who himself led many Mormons out of their cult into true Christianity.
By the way guys, here are a couple links to our famous Evangelical "Terrence Malick."
Yes, my name is Terrence Malick, and NO, I am not the famous film director, nor am I closely related to him. Can you imagine that several people share the same name? If you don't, go to youtube and have a search for our friend Eric Hoffman. You will find people from their early teens to their eighties. Or go and visit all Joseph Smiths in America and tell them: "No, you are not Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith died centuries ago." How childish you are.
Malick is an old family name, formerly written Malek or also Melek. It is also related to the hebrew word "Melech" which means king. It once also was a title of one of the pagan gods, nowadays rendered as "Moloch" (Amos 5:26). There are many Maleks or Malicks in America, especially many immigrated after World War II.
Now to Ray: The thing about all the scriptures you quoted, Terrence, is that they are all based upon whether or not the Bible is true. Most of us here now believe that the Bible is BS! The bible is God's Own word, it is holy and inerrant, it speaks truth.
Therefore, quoting out of it will gain you nothing. In fact, it just makes you look like a gullible sucker. You believe anything the Bible says, just because it says so. Of course I do, because I am a Christian. Our faith is based on the gospel proclaimed in the bible. Without the bible, we have nothing.
Jesus may have been a real man but stories evolve and Jesus went from being a man to being a saviour and a god. It is impossible for anyone to walk on water and I'll NEVER believe it until I see it. Why should I believe in BS that is based on claims that are absurd? Jesus himself said that he was God, that God and himself are one person. Also, other people testify that Jesus was God, not a mere human being:
Then saith [Jesus] to Thomas "Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." And Thomas answered and said unto him "My Lord and my God".(John 20:27-28)
Christianity is a cult no different than Mormonism. This hurts me very much, comparing this cult Satan created with the True Church Jesus himself created. It is like comparing black and white and seeing no difference. How blind are you?
I didn't know that this is an atheist blog, but from what Ray stated, this seems to be the case. I feel pity for you, Samuel and Ray, for you don't know Christ.
This is a mormon truth blog and anyone here is free to form their own belief system after discovering the mormon fraud. I am not atheist. I believe in some sort of a higher power or else I would not be alive, just not the Christian god. When I state my opinions, I am talking for myself, not the group.
In the past, whenever I have talked with Christians, I always try to show them the flaws in the Bible (like they try to do with the Mormons and the Book of Mormon) and they always brush aside everything I bring up and never comment on it (just like the Mormons do). You believe the Bible, but why? Just because it says so? What proof is there, at all, that anything the Bible says is literally true?
This is why the Christian argument is weak, because it is based on a weak book that they don't even know how to defend (If they do know how, I have never see it). So I am challenging you, Terrence, to explain to me in great detail why you believe the Bible is true. And I won't accept stuff like, "It says it is," or "it just is," or "Jesus said it is", etc. If you believe there are certain points in the Bible that have been proven, please share and document it.
Mormon to Christianity is not black to white, it is more like gray to gray. Really, how are they so different? You both believe in books that are bogus; you both think your truth is the only truth; you both think your Jesus will save you; you both think the other is wrong; in spite of mountains of evidence to the contrary, you both still blindly believe in your religion. Any argument that you give will be the exact same argument that a Mormon will give. For example, if you say, "My Jesus is the true Jesus," so will the Mormons. If you say, "My church is true," so will the Mormons. If you say, "All other churches are false," so will the Mormons. There is no difference between you and them and yet you think it is black and white? No it is just one false branch of Christianity debating another false branch. They are both so busy screaming how right they are, that they forget that it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong.
And Thomas answered and said unto him "My Lord and my God".(John 20:27-28) Again, just because the Bible says so doesn't make it literally true. Remember, a Mormon can use that exact same verse to show that HIS Jesus is lord and god. That is why I keep asking for a better explanation because everything you say is exactly what a Mormon would say, which once again shows that there is no difference between the two of you.
Jesus himself said that he was God, that God and himself are one person.
Well, Buddah said he was enlightened. Joseph Smith said he was king of the world. Again, just because the Bible says that Jesus said something does not mean anything. I'm sorry but you need a stronger argument than that. As long as you keep up with "The Bible says this," and "Jesus said that," you will never convince me of your point.
Here's an example, by your logic, if something says it's true, then it's true. The Book of Mormon says many times in many places that it is true. I am sure the Koran (spelling) says it's true. And every other religion with their own "holy book" probably says it's true too.
Now I know what you will say... "The Book of Mormon says it's true but that's because it is trying to deceive people. Same with the Koran. But the Bible says it's true because it is true!" PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME THE DIFFERENCE!
If you are like every other Christian who I have talked to, you will just ignore everything I've said here (just like the Mormons do) and just keep spouting off scriptures. If you're not going to respond with a decent answer, then please don't waste your time.
"Just because it says so," is a pathetic defense of Christianity. Can't the truth stand up to any criticism? If your Jesus is so powerful, then confound me. But you can't, because Jesus is a myth and Christianity is just a cult.
I have issued a smiliar challenge to TBM's to have their Mormon god fry me with a lightening bolt, but guess what?!?! I'm still alive and kicking! No bolts, no nothing! Read the writing on the wall... you believe in a damn lie.
The Bible currently says that Jesus said he was god and people called him god. But this is a book of which the origins are unknown and of which there are several hundreds of years of gaps in the history of the New Testament. A lot can change over a 2000 year period, don't you think? So how do we really know that Jesus said anything the Bible says he does? In fact, how do we know Jesus even lived at all?
Here's an interesting piece of information... Jesus' language was Aramic, so we would expect the original documents of the New Testament to be written in Aramic, right? Although the original manuscripts are forever lost, experts agree that the original language was Greek. Now isn't it a bit odd that it was originally written in a language that Christ did not speak? If Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John knew Jesus personally, we must assume they spoke his language (Aramic) and would have written it in that language to preserve it they way he said it. This strongly shows that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did not know Jesus personally, AND there is evidence that the gospels were written some 150-200 years after the time of Christ. Think about it, each book says "The Gosepel According to so and so". It doesn't say, "The Gospel BY so and so!" The evidence for what I have shared is overwhelming. And there is much more!
I have no trouble with Evangelical Christians, or anybody, for that matter passing out DVD's to people.
What I do have a problem with is Evangeical Christians, or anybody for that matter, telling people to do things their way or go to hell.
Why can't people just get along?
It doesn't matter if Jesus exists or not, if the LDS church or the Evangelical churches are true or not...isn't it time to let go of all this nastiness and begin feeling love and compassion towards one another?
I think Samuel is doing a huge service to Mormons on the edge of leaving by exposing the truth. I never get the feeling that he is telling Mormons how to live their lives, but rather how HE sees the lies and fraud of the Mormon Church.
He is not telling people what to believe--he is telling people how HE believes.
For Christians to tell people that they will burn in hell if they do not believe in Jesus does not seem one bit Christlike.
In fact, the more I listen to Christians discuss what Christ would or would not do, I do not want anything to do with their Christ. He seems mean and vindictive.
I would love to see peace and harmony and love. That I do not see in any church, not Mormon, not Christian, not any of them.
I have come to see religion as a way to control people, not a way to love and enlightenment.
Religion is supposed to be all about love, but I have to agree with you completely... religion creates differences and contention.
Remember John Lennon's song Imagine. If people would just forget their differences and love each other, we can't imagine how much better the world would be.
I guess we are all guilty to a degree, especially me. In my last few comments I called Terrence a "gullible sucker" so, Terrence, if you're still here, I apologize for saying that.
I'd like to refer everyone back to the the last post I did and the comment that Rich just left, not responding to one thing I said and now calling me a racist and personally mocking me, what I do, claiming that I don't help anyone(Have I helped anyone here?), or do anything worthwhile, etc. He claims my logic is "feeble"...LOL!!
This guy doesn't know me at all and has no idea what I do in my personal time or who I help or how, nor does he really care. His agenda is "THE CULT IS TRUE", and beyond that, nothing seems to matter, which is usually the case with these Mormon Apologists.
He has completely melted down and fully exposed himself as the pathetic, true, Mormon apologist that he is, by spewing a bunch of bullshit that has nothing to do with the topic and then attacking me personally with things that aren't true and have nothing to do with the subject at hand or the post or my comments.
If anyone has anything to say to Rich, I'd appreciate it, as I've pretty much said everything I can to the brainwashed, racist, Mormon Apologist idiot. This guy is truly as dumb as a box of rocks and actually I'd give a nod to the rocks.
He accuses me of nothing more than "spreading my own brand of religious intolerance, racism, and hatred." Meanwhile, he defends Mormon racism as if it's nothing and defends and justifies it all, in the spirit of "little flicks of history" Gordon B. Hinckley. But I'm the racist? Oh yeah and he sees no problem, even now, in 2007, calling black people the N-word. What a great guy!!
He then also admits to only "skimming" my posts, which would explain his utter stupidity and lack of knowledge, since I'm sure what he does with my blog, is an example of what he does with everything he reads, which shows in his astounding ignorance.
Anyway, I just thought I'd let you guys know about his comment in case you wanted to respond.
Thanks Bonnie for your comment. I wanted to say that my issue was never with the actual DVD itself, rather those dispersing it and their dishonest, underhanded methods and their arrogant agenda, and shameful condemning of ALL Mormons to burn in hell for eternity.
Like I keep saying; if you are so damn proud of your Jesus and condemnations, why the "secret plan" and hiding in the shadows and trying not to engage anyone.
These are the same guys that put out and supported the Godmakers and shout people down at Conference and the Manti Pageants and other pageants in Clarkston, Utah, Arizona, New York, etc? I guess they were trying to use the ol' bait and switch eh? We know these guys are hardcore and are not nice guys and they just wanted to try to appear nice and suck them in, before slamming them and threatening them with hellfire and damnation.
Anyway, I've said all I want to say about it, as everyone clearly knows how I feel about the project itself and those who are involved. It was also disappointing to me to see Sandra Tanner involved in this DVD project and it appears that I was in denial and naive in thinking that she wasn't actually one of these self-righteous soul condemners, but birds of a feather flock together and sadly, she is.
At least she isn't in your face and doing what these guys do, but she is helping their cause, which I guess is her cause as well. You can't tell me that she isn't aware of and supportive of their tactics and I guess that's why they all call what they are doing a "ministry."
I'll always be appreciative of what she's done to expose Mormonism, but disappointed with who she has chosen to associate with and the agenda she's pushing to all of those that actually leave Mormonism. Why can't people just love their Jesus/God, be happy and not have to go out of their way to condemn everyone that doesn't believe what they believe, which they claim to be "the one and only truth?" This is the very thing they condemn Mormons for and they are all hypocrites!!
Take care everyone and thanks for all of your comments!!
Samuel wrote: Why can't people just love their Jesus/God, be happy and not have to go out of their way to condemn everyone that doesn't believe what they believe, which they claim to be "the one and only truth?"
Some while ago, I have read about "Memetics". You probably all know evolution theory.
An animal is born, grows up, reproduces with another individuum. The child then is a mixture of its parents. Sometimes, due to mutation, the genetic code changes. Over the millenia, the species changes, new species are born, others die out.
Memetics is the application of this concept to ideas. Ideas are "born" in someone's mind. They "create children" if a person tells another about this idea. Some ideas die out, some mingle with others, some become strong and influencial. It is crucial for an idea to spread, or it would die out.
Lets apply this to religions.If there was not a way to transfer the religion from one individuum to another, the religion would soon die out. This is what happened for example to the greek pantheon. I guess that noone (?) nowadays believes in the greek gods.
How can religions prohibit their own death? They have to reproduce and spread. They perform this in two main ways: 1) Parents raise their children in their religion. Thus, a tradition is established. Mind that this is especially good for religions when people have many children. Guess why Mormonism promotes child-bearing and rearing so much? 2) Missionaries convert people who do not yet believe. This is another major means to growth. Christianity became influencial mainly through missionaries. Nowadays, the Jehovas Witnesses and Mormons are very active in proselytizing.
You see, a religion needs to apply methods to "reproduce", that is, to gain new members. One trick is to promise a nicer heaven if you believe in that particular religion. What is so special about this is that believing is quite easy. You don't have to behave well, you just have to believe in Jesus, that's all. And that's quite simple.
To conclude, those fanatic people who believe their religion is the only truth are but containers for ideas. The ideas of religions are like parasites which feast in their victim's body. In order to "infect" more people, the idea urges its victim to convert others by promising a better future in heaven.
So people like Sandra Tanner or Eric Hoffman are not guilty themselves, they are rather to be seen as being ill, ill with a parasite which has entered their brains and which tries to promulgate, using its hosts.
I don't know if it makes sense to you, guys. Just my thoughts.
I do not see that big of problem with the Christians and their DVD, the tactics are no worse the bad things I was told to do on my mission. As long as Mormons are out there bothering people like me don't these guys have a right to annoy the Mormons. For the record I do not agree with anyone pushing their belief's on someone else be they Christian or Mormon.
My two cents: I see no problem with the handing out of DVD's. I agree that it sounds like some of their methods are a little shady or dishonest, which is what I think bothers Samuel most - that and the condemning. I haven't seen the DVD, so I don't know how condemning it is. Simply talking about the Bible and asking for a change of faith isn't all that condemning, but threatening hellfire and eternal damnation is ... so, I guess we'll see what it says (I'll have to watch later).
In my opinion, the Mormons are deluded, and the Christians are deluded. However, that being said ... I have little to no sympathy for the mormon cause in this incident because: a) Mormons harrass people constantly, and I sure as hell wish that someone had left a DVD on my door instead of two missionaries that converted me to the cult. I'd take that anyday! b) Mormons are just as deceptive in their tactics (with the missionaries) ... not telling the whole truth, "milk before meat", etc., and converting people to a faith which turns out to be 180 degrees of a turnabout from what they expected.
So no, I don't have sympathy for the mormons. They think everyone else is going to hell or the 'terrestrial kingdom' for eternity (along with all sorts of awful ppl from history), they decieve and manipulate at your door, they harrass you with phone calls, visits and coming when unwanted ... so I don't give a damn about a DVD.
I will agree that the methods sound a little underhanded, and from the sound of it - these evangical nutjobs are certainly hypocrites and not ones to be preaching (from what I know of Samuel's dealings with them), which I think makes this even more ironic and stupid.
I'm glad if they get some people out of Mormonism ... if they turn to the cult of Christianity, so be it. I think Samuel's annoyance comes in at the characters who are involved with this, who sound like absolute idiots lacking compassion and respect. I don't respect anyone less for handing out the DVD's, but if they are having dealings with these characters ... then yes, my respect must drop somewhat.
At the end of the day, Christianity and Mormonism are emotional crutches used by weak people. Some days I want a crutch to lean on too, but I instead use my common sense, intellect and my own personal morality and love of my neighbour. I just wish that everyone would gather the courage to desire TRUTH, research the facts, and accept the obvious conclusions. Maybe then we could progress into a truly civilized society.
So, one one hand, you "do not agree with anyone pushing their belief's on someone else be they Christian or Mormon", but then on the other hand, you "do not see that big of problem with the Christians and their DVD, the tactics are no worse the bad things I was told to do on my mission" and "As long as Mormons are out there bothering people like me don't these guys have a right to annoy the Mormon."(After the experiences you shared with all of us last night in the "private/invitation 'haters only...LOL' Skypecast" we had, I now completely understand why you feel this way. I think if I'd experienced the asshole Mormon missionaries that you have, I'd feel the exact same way you do!!)
For the record, once again, I'm strongly against BOTH and not supporting either!! I agree that Mormon missionaries are taught and programmed to lie, deceive and defraud everyone they meet(unbeknownst to most of them of course) and I'm against that big time, as everyone should know by now.
Although, I do think that they are more straight forward(by at least being willing to talk to people and give them a choice of whether they want a BOM, etc), than a bunch of Evangelicals running around hanging unwanted DVDs on people's front door, and then cutting and running, trying not to talk to or engage any Mormons at any cost, since those are the direct orders from headquarters.
Several things here are ironic and very hypocritical. First of all, these Evangelicals running the show and organizing this "secret DVD blitz”, from the Living Hope ministries here in Utah, always go around pointing their finger at Mormons for their "secret combinations." So what was this "secret plan" about guys? The direct order was to make sure that "no Mormons knew about it or saw the video before March 25."
That was just another reason that I chose to expose their stupid little plan. I mean hey, if they have nothing to hide, then it shouldn't be a problem, right? ============
I wrote this comment the other day Demon and I know we talked about this last night, but I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of these guys and what they accuse Mormons of, when they are doing the same thing and even worse in my opinion. Like I said last night; the world would be a far better place without either group or any group going around spreading their bullshit. They're all a bunch of fanatical, religious hypocrites!!
The world would be far better off without 52,000 + Mormon missionaries telling the world that their church is an abomination, with corrupt professors and false teachings, just as it would be without these nutjob, fanatical, radical, insane Evangelicals running around telling everyone(ESPECIALLY MORMONS), that they(and all their friends and family) are all going to burn in hell and gnash their teeth in hell/Hades/lake of fire and brimstone for all eternity, if they don't become Jesus freaks and follow them and their interpreted beliefs.
At least when Mormons condemn the rest of the world, they actually try to be nice about it and offer alternative “kingdoms of glory”(even though that means no eternal family and eternal separation from all loved ones, friends and family)...as the Evangelicals could learn something from the Mormons on how to properly and nicely condemn people, couldn’t they...LOL!!?
Anyway, all of this just shows what a joke and fraud all religion is, as everyone believes that THEY have the only truth. How many people have been killed, slaughtered, raped and brutalized in every way, in the name of God or hey, even at the supposed direct command of God through his supposed Prophets like Moses.
Maybe one day people will pull their head out of their ass and realize that their God commanding the mass slaughter and execution of innocent men, women and children isn't moral or inspirational. Then again, for some, sadly, that is inspirational and they live their lives accordingly.
Take care guys and thanks everyone for the awesome Skypecast last night and thanks Demon for your comments and insights.
Samuel, I don't understand why you are so mad at us evangelicals.
ReplyDeleteIsn't the purpose of your blog to help people out of Mormonism?
Now that we are trying the same thing, that is, to help people who are caught up in this cult, instead of supporting us, instead of helping us, you get mad at us.
I don't understand your motives.
Anyway, I don't think that your exposal will have much of an impact, as the average Mormon does neighter read your blog nor the FAIR board, which is only read by a few apologetics.
Samuel, we are on your side, helping people who are deceived by the fraud of the LDS church.
Give us a chance.
If you cannot be friends, at least make peace with Eric Hoffman, whom I know to have the best of intentions.
And you will see that after tomorrow, many people will leave the LDS church and its deception.
Terrence Malick
Terrence,
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, the chances of very many Mormons leaving the church to become "real Christians" is very low. It's just like someone giving you a Buddhist DVD and expecting you to convert. Believe me, Mormon indoctrination is VERY STRONG and if they receive a DVD that goes against their church, 99% of them will end up in the garbage. So don't get your hopes up but we'll see what happens tomorrow.
Hi Ray ,
ReplyDeleteI was just reading your article on Church Tithes etc on your blog .
I was looking at the churches donation record to Humanitarian Aid . According to LDS.org they donated $95 million dollars in 2004 to Humanitarian Aid .
Divide that between 12 million supposed members and it works out at $8 dollars per member for the year .
If you take out 6 million inactives and possible 2 million kids , that still makes it $24 dollars per member for that year on average .
It's hardly a staggering amount and definately not as Dramatic as the Headline church figure would suggest . Although it's really good that Mormons donate additional to their Tithes in this fund . But shows that helping the needy in these countries is not a priority .The priority seems to be funding itself as a corporation .
I don't want to critisize the ordinary Mormon though , the demands on their finances are very high and I too donate to the church's Humanitarian Aid and Fasts BUT NOT TITHE . I sometimes wonder that the average member is just being exploited.The presure to fund everything is so great .
I'm only an investigator and I brought up the 'Burning' issue ( mentioned in D&C and in the Gospel Principles book )in Gospel Principles sunday School class once . I asked does it mean Non Tithe Payers will be burned ? .. literally set on fire ! Of course no one gave an answer as usual .
I could see how weaker vulnerable people would get threatened easily from this .
I have found that despite everyone encouraging me to ask questions , they all too soon decide they don't have any answers to most of my questions .The usual excuse is we will know when the veil is removed.What will we know ? probably that mormonism was a con ! lol
Tithing is a good way to fund the church but many do get into financial difficulties . The church is so wealthy it can spend $1.5 billion on property development supposedly without using tithe money . So they must own alot of income producing assetts that members don't know about !
Does anyone ever inquire or ask . I ask but no one seems to know . I'm suspicious when finances are kept from the average member .If I was a Tithe payer , I'd like to have a copy of the main accounts including how much goes in Wages and expenses for the Hierarchy and others . They always are surrounded by luxury and expensive surroundings when I see them .
Elder Joseph
Thanks for that comment. Would you mind posting it on my comment board so that readers there (if I even have any) can see it?
ReplyDeleteAnd I would say that $24 per member (per year) sounds about right. Each fast Sunday they ask members to go without a meal or two and then donate the cost of the missed meals to charity. In my opinion, it is a good program. In a way, it's good that it is funded by the members, but then the church has no right to claim credit for it. Even if they matched, dollar for dollar, what the members donate it would double the amount of help they could provide, and then the church could claim partial credit for the donations. But like I said, they are a non-profit organization and so they are not in need of any tax breaks; therefore, they donate nothing out of their own pockets.
No one asks. They just assume that every penny is spent under divine revelation. Money for most people is hard to come by and if I'm going to hand over 10% to anyone, I damn well want to know where it's going.
Hi Sam,
ReplyDeleteIt's Keith, from the podcast last week. I saw this headline, http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2978283&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312, and tought you would get my twisted take on it. Maybe the way to end the Mormon church, is to get Moron...um...er, Moroni hooked on latte's, and then the rest will adopt it as doctrine and follow suit. They'll be so jazzed up on the 'feen that they won't be able to sit still long enough to attend anymore.
Just a thought.
Friends
Keith
I hope I get one of those DVDs tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteEven though I'm not an evangelical or "born again" christian, I get a kick out of anything that exposes the mormon church as a complete and utter fraud.
I sincerely doubt that many TBMs will bother to watch the DVD though...they're programed to avoid anything not "faith promoting" and will toss it in the trash, just like Ray said.
Ray said:
ReplyDeletethe chances of very many Mormons leaving the church to become "real Christians" is very low. It's just like someone giving you a Buddhist DVD and expecting you to convert.
The difference between our campaign and a Buddhist handing me a DVD is that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior, while the Buddha was a rich kid who was sick of his boring life in the palace.
As Jesus Christ himself will touch the LDS people's heart when they watch the DVD, many will turn away from their church and enter into the body of Christ. Through the power of the holy spirit, they will be healed from their ignorance and will get to know the true Christ.
Believe me, Mormon indoctrination is VERY STRONG and if they receive a DVD that goes against their church, 99% of them will end up in the garbage.
Mormon indoctrination might be strong, but Mormon opinion is often rather wavering.
Take a look at a recent Salt Lake Tribune article:
"Utah's LDS no longer firmly back Iraq war"
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5517138
You see that the LDS church and its members are flip-flopping.
Instead of keeping an opinion to the end, they waver.
So they will to with their faith.
On the other hand, evangelicals and other true Christians like baptists are strong in their determination that it was good to invade Iraq, because after the war is over and peace and democracy comes to the Iraq and Afghanistan, it is possible to send missionaries there to bring them into the flock of Christ. Most of the casualties are not Christian but Muslims; they are but pawns in the chess game of life.
So you have those flip-flopping Mormons and us Christians who stand strong in the Lord.
Lets see how we will do today.
Have a nice sunday.
Terrence
ReplyDeleteIf I send the address of my TBM relatives would you send the DVD?
Terrence,
ReplyDeleteYour comparison between Jesus and Buddah is interesting. The only reason Sidartha was a spoiled rich kid was because his father tried to hide the truth of illness, disease, and death from him. As soon as he discovered the truth, he gave up his princely life.
My question is, if Jesus is the true lord and Buddah is just a bratty kid, why do Buddhists outnumber Christians by a large amount?
You are entitled to believe whatever you want. Seeing as how I used to be Mormon, (I assume you have not) I can tell you that the only spirit they will feel is the spirit of the devil trying to lead them astray from the true church.
Their comparison will be much like yours... "Our Jesus speaks to living prophets, while your Jesus is silent in heaven. Besides, your church has apostatized and is lead by men."
I am not meaning to disagree with you. If a few Mormons find your truth to be better than their truth then great. I am just trying to help you understand how Mormons think. Just remember this, they believe their religion just as much (if not more) than you believe in yours.
Good luck today. I'm hoping a DVD ends up on my porch.
Samuel, I don't understand why you are so mad at us evangelicals.
ReplyDeleteIsn't the purpose of your blog to help people out of Mormonism?
Terrence, I'm very pissed off at you Fanatical Evangelicals, because you openly and often condemn ALL(including many of my friends and family) Mormons to literally burn in hell for all eternity and gnash their teeth with Satan, if they don't follow your way, your path, your Jesus, your Biblical interpretations...just ask your best buddy Eric Hoffman about that?
Do I need to post Eric's personal condemnation audio again?
The purpose of my blogs and podcasts, is to help people who are questioning or doubting, to get the hell out of Mormonism, and to have a place for them to come, where they can freely and openly express themselves, ask questions, learn and find others that share and understand their pain, and not be condemned to fry with Satan for all Eternity in the process. I mean hell, how low will you guys go? Love and compassion? Where?!!
Now that we are trying the same thing, that is, to help people who are caught up in this cult, instead of supporting us, instead of helping us, you get mad at us.
I don't understand your motives.
My motives are to expose to the world, the true, condemning, fanatical Evangelicals that many if not most of you are, especially the ministries that are set up specifically, to condemn ALL Mormons.
Why would I ever want to help or support you people, that I now find more vile, repulsive and disgusting than even the Mormon apologists? You must be living in a real fantasy land dude!! You guys in all your gusto to openly condemn ALL Mormons to burn in hell(with love of course) for all eternity, make Mormonism look pretty damn normal.
If I had to choose between you guys and Mormonism, I would go back to Mormonism in 2 seconds, without even having to think about it and that's a pretty sad statement about you guys, considering how strongly I feel against Mormonism, as you and everyone knows.
Don't you realize the freaks that you are making of yourselves? You really think that your pathetic condemnation methods will make the average Mormon want to come over to your side? Give me a break!! And Eric says that I'm wasting my time and helping nobody? I think that would accurately describe what you guys are doing, not me.
Anyway, I don't think that your exposal will have much of an impact, as the average Mormon does neighter read your blog nor the FAIR board, which is only read by a few apologetics.
Well, according to your good buddy Eric and also Aaron, my exposing of your "secret DVD plan" is now being considered a blessing from your God. So which is it? It will have an impact or it won't? I mean you guys can't have it both ways.
First you think that Satan is attacking you guys, so that most of the other Christian churches won't help your pathetic plan and you're asking everyone to pray, that their hearts will be opened. Then I expose your plan and it turns out to really be a "blessing", but now you say I won't have any impact? Don't you see how ridiculous you sound, with the contradictions flying everywhere? I'm working for Satan, now I'm a blessing.....LOL...pick one and stick with it man!!
Who's the spokesperson for you guys anyway? Chip? Is it you? Eric? Aaron-the Mormon God the Father might have been a homosexual drag queen and oh, here's a picture of what he might look like, but hey, I mean no disrespect...really?!! What an asshole!!
Yeah, I'm sure the Mormons will love that one and feel the spirit of your Jesus/God, saying to follow you, after you mock their God. You support that too Terrance? Do you approve of Aaron's methods?
Your comments about the "average Mormon" are laughable, because you guys don't have a clue about Mormons period. The average good Mormon is terrified of DVDs like the one you are handing out and they might only watch it, due to innocently thinking it might be a good DVD, due to your disingenuous, don't talk to anyone, make it look nice approach.
Through your deception is the only way most Mormons will want to watch it and most of them will quickly turn it off and toss it in the trash once they realize what it is.
The only Mormons you might impact at all, are those that are already questioning, or have already left and trying to figure out where to go. I'm trying to help those folks realize that moving from one cult to another and then having to openly condemn all of their friends and family that are still Mormon; isn't a very good idea.
Samuel, we are on your side, helping people who are deceived by the fraud of the LDS church.
Let me be PERFECTLY CLEAR...WE ARE NOT ON THE SAME SIDE AND WE NEVER WILL BE!! NOT EVEN CLOSE!! I will NEVER support your or what you are doing, in trying to threaten and force Mormons, through more fear, to either follow you or fry like bugs.
These Mormons that are lucky enough to have escaped, are trying to escape that very fear and abuse, that they've lived with for their whole life and then you guys come along, claiming to love them so much, while condemning them. Are you guys really that clueless and heartless?!!
Give us a chance.
If you cannot be friends, at least make peace with Eric Hoffman, whom I know to have the best of intentions.
And you will see that after tomorrow, many people will leave the LDS church and its deception.
Terrence Malick
I will not give you a second chance, nor a first chance as I think you guys are lower than scum, especially Eric Hoffman. Making peace with Eric Hoffman? Dude, seriously, don't make me laugh man, as you are seriously deluded and delusional and obviously don't have the slightest clue about what has gone on between Eric and I.
This man has personally condemned me, all my friends and family, everyone her in Mormon Truth and even his OWN DAD, to burn in hell forever, lose our souls forever, gnash our teeth forever, if we don't follow him.
He has personally called me "DEMONIC" and lied about me, my blogs, told people that I use pornographic pictures(girls in bikinis), and that he can "see people come to my sight just to get off."
He has personally threatened me, saying that he could reveal my true identity(which he doesn't even know) and that if he was me and knew that someone knew what he did about me, that he'd "shut up." I can release the voice mail on that one too, if he again calls me a liar publicly and claims he never said it, like when he lied and claimed with the "get off" comment.
I think it's funny that you brainwashed Evangelicals honestly think that your DVD is going to suddenly convert good, happy Mormons, over to your "my way or burn in hell highway to hell." If that isn't delusion, I don't know what is. Your DVD will have less impact than you claim my revealing of your plan had. Haven't you seen that FAIR already prepared a point by point response to your DVD?
Yeah, that would still be a couple weeks away, if I hadn't revealed your "secret plan" and I know that wasn't planned for, thus all the need for secrecy and warning that "no Mormons are to know about this or see the DVD, etc.
The difference between what you do and what I do, is what I do is genuine and I sincerely want to help people that are on the fence or that have recently left or questioning. Beyond that, I have no agenda at all. I actually allow(I know this must seem foreign to you) people to find their own path and direction and do and believe whatever they want to and to do whatever is best for their family. You however, want to reveal the truth of Mormonism and then tell them, "follow me or burn and you'll be sorry for eternity."
I'm sure that everyone out there can see the difference and see who has the agenda the size of Mount Everest and who doesn't, once we reveal the fraud of Mormonism, and it ain't me. The only reason you do what you do, is to gain more converts to your belief system and cult and there's no love, compassion or decency involved.
This DVD project was a complete waste, will be a complete bust and some ex-Mormon/Evangelical is now out around $250,000 +. Oh well, I guess as long as you guys think it was a smashing success, that's all that matters, right? I hope you come to my house, I really do!!
Oh yeah, is it true that you guys are actually going to call the cops on any Mormons that go around removing DVDs from people's doors?(as someone stated on my blog)Now that doesn't sound like Christlike love to me and in fact, it sounds pretty damn vindictive and like REVENGE!! Once again, your true colors shining through, for all to see.
Imagine that scene for a moment, in a quiet Mormon neighborhood, on a Sunday...police everywhere, Evangelicals shouting at Mormons, Mormons shouting at Evangelicals, people in handcuffs and sitting in the back of police cars....WOW!! Sounds Christlike to me!!
So, now you love Mormons so very much, that you want to get them arrested and put in jail? Just make sure that the towns where you are calling the cops...allows door to door soliciting, or you may be the ones getting arrested. Just thought I'd help you out, so that you don't make a bigger mess of things and embarrass yourselves more than you guys already have.
Please report back on how many lost Mormon "soon to burn souls", find your Jesus Christ and are saved today. How many counselors are really going to be standing by on the phones? 1 or 2? From the way you guys talk, you should have rented out the Delta Center, just to set up your call center...LOL!!
Samuel
Samuel, I cannot understand you.
ReplyDeleteHave you never read the bible?
We evangelicals have not invented the idea that people who do not believe in Jesus will go to hell.
It is a biblical teaching, and true Christians trust the bible, believe in the bible and its teachings.
You said:
Why would I ever want to help or support you people, that I now find more vile, repulsive and disgusting than even the Mormon apologists? You must be living in a real fantasy land dude!! You guys in all your gusto to openly condemn ALL Mormons to burn in hell(with love of course) for all eternity, make Mormonism look pretty damn normal.
We are not living in a fantasy land, we are just stating what God has revealed to us in HIS word.
Here is what the bible teaches
(mind, the BIBLE, not us evangelicals):
Jhn 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
Jhn 3:17-18: "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
Mt 9:28-29: "And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you."
Lk 11:32-35
"The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.
The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness."
Rom 3:19:"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: ..."
You see, it is not us evangelicals who condemn the world and all those who do not believe in Jesus Christ, it is the bible.
We are condemned by the law, for we are all sinners. But we can be made righteous in the sight of God by believing in our Lord Jesus Christ.
Through him alone is the way to God.
True Christians like us do merely proclaim this truth which is written in this sacred texts since two thousand years, Samuel.
It is not our private opinion, it is the bible which speaks this truth.
Who's the spokesperson for you guys anyway?
Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior;
and the Bible, his Holy Writing.
He has personally threatened me, saying that he could reveal my true identity(which he doesn't even know) and that if he was me and knew that someone knew what he did about me, that he'd "shut up." I can release the voice mail on that one too, if he again calls me a liar publicly and claims he never said it, like when he lied and claimed with the "get off" comment.
To be honest, I don't blieve you,Samuel. You are only slandering Eric, who is an honorable Christian and who would never blackmail people. Blackmail is a criminal and sinful act, and I am sure Eric Hoffman would never do such a thing. If you still hold such bold claims, prove it. I'm sure you cannot back your claim up.
This DVD project was a complete waste, will be a complete bust and some ex-Mormon/Evangelical is now out around $250,000 +. Oh well, I guess as long as you guys think it was a smashing success, that's all that matters, right?
The DVD project will be a great success. Mass-baptisms are scheduled for next sunday in several evangelical and baptist churches to welcome our brothers and sisters to the body of Christ.
Of course I don't know the exact number yet, but we estimate 10.000-25.000 people converting due to the DVD project nationwide.
Isn't this worth the effort and money? I bet it is.
How many counselors are really going to be standing by on the phones? 1 or 2?
Samuel, you are only mocking us, and by this, you mock your Creator and Savior, Jesus Christ.
I let you know that we have sufficient professionals to deal with the telephone calls and enough councelors helping with theological issues former Mormons might have when entering the body of Christ.
Ok, so much for now.
For my case, this was an already successful sunday.
God bless you all.
Terrence Malick.
Yeah, okay "Terrence
ReplyDeleteMalick"...LOL!! 10,000-25,000...LMAO!!
Hey, I'll let Eric call me a liar AGAIN and then I'll release the audio AGAIN, proving who the REAL liar is, AGAIN. How many times does it take? Oh wait, you don't really care, do you?
By the way guys, here are a couple links to our famous Evangelical "Terrence Malick."
Terrence-IMDB
More on Terrence, including a picture
What an honor to have a 2 time Oscar nominee and best director from the Cannes Film festival posting on my blog. Isn't that awesome?!! Wow, and to think I thought he was busy with his movies and stuff...LOL!! And who knew that this guy was best buds with Eric Hoffman too...WOW!!
It looks like our nutjob posters are back, using different names now. Jose, that you? Billsjane? Eric? Aaron?
Notice that they don't have a blog or anything set up? Anyway, just thought I'd let everyone know the true identity and accomplishments of "Terrence Malick", the die-hard Evangelical, who is so pumped about this DVD project.
It's my advice we that we shouldn't respond to anymore of his comments and encourage him, since he's insincere and a liar and just one of these anons that's fucking with us all once again, pretending to be something and someone that they obviously aren't. I guess it's time to go create yet another name...get a life guys...seriously!!
Samuel
The thing about all the scriptures you quoted, Terrence, is that they are all based upon whether or not the Bible is true. Most of us here now believe that the Bible is BS! Therefore, quoting out of it will gain you nothing. In fact, it just makes you look like a gullible sucker. You believe anything the Bible says, just because it says so.
ReplyDeleteWhat proof do you have that Jesus is the true lord and Buddah isn't? Just because the Bible says so? Come on! You preach that the Mormon's scripture isn't true, but they all believe it because it says it's true. Do you start to see how your religious beliefs are really no different than theirs?
The problem, is that Mormons and Christians (if there really is a difference) both believe in a damn myth. Jesus may have been a real man but stories evolve and Jesus went from being a man to being a saviour and a god. It is impossible for anyone to walk on water and I'll NEVER believe it until I see it. Why should I believe in BS that is based on claims that are absurd?
People don't float up and down from heaven.
People can't walk on water.
No one can command the wind and the waves.
Dead people don't come back to life.
If you bother using one ounce of brain power, you will realize that it is a load of bull shit! Sorry, but there's no other way to say it. It's a lie and it has never been proven true and will never be proven true. Jesus will not make his grand appearance at the second coming. I wonder what the excuses will be in 300-400 years from now? How come Jesus hasn't come yet? I'm sure there will be a million and one reasons to justify and explain it away.
Christianity is a cult no different than Mormonism. You believe in lies and the more you defend them, the more you look like an idiot. Again, spouting off a load of, said so, scriptures is not going to have one bit of effect here. Do you have any other argument besides the Bible? Sadly, no. The Bible is thousands of years old and has no relavence at all, to us today. NONE. That is why your argument is so weak. Because it is not only based on bull shit, it is based on VERY OLD bull shit.
Hello Samuel,
ReplyDeletehello Ray,
10,000-25,000...LMAO!!
We will see next sunday who is right, you mocking Christianity or our Savior Jesus Christ who himself led many Mormons out of their cult into true Christianity.
By the way guys, here are a couple links to our famous Evangelical "Terrence Malick."
Yes, my name is Terrence Malick, and NO, I am not the famous film director, nor am I closely related to him.
Can you imagine that several people share the same name?
If you don't, go to youtube and have a search for our friend Eric Hoffman. You will find people from their early teens to their eighties. Or go and visit all Joseph Smiths in America and tell them: "No, you are not Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith died centuries ago." How childish you are.
Malick is an old family name, formerly written Malek or also Melek. It is also related to the hebrew word "Melech" which means king. It once also was a title of one of the pagan gods, nowadays rendered as "Moloch" (Amos 5:26).
There are many Maleks or Malicks in America, especially many immigrated after World War II.
Now to Ray:
The thing about all the scriptures you quoted, Terrence, is that they are all based upon whether or not the Bible is true. Most of us here now believe that the Bible is BS!
The bible is God's Own word, it is holy and inerrant, it speaks truth.
Therefore, quoting out of it will gain you nothing. In fact, it just makes you look like a gullible sucker. You believe anything the Bible says, just because it says so.
Of course I do, because I am a Christian. Our faith is based on the gospel proclaimed in the bible. Without the bible, we have nothing.
Jesus may have been a real man but stories evolve and Jesus went from being a man to being a saviour and a god. It is impossible for anyone to walk on water and I'll NEVER believe it until I see it. Why should I believe in BS that is based on claims that are absurd?
Jesus himself said that he was God, that God and himself are one person. Also, other people testify that Jesus was God, not a mere human being:
Then saith [Jesus] to Thomas "Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing."
And Thomas answered and said unto him "My Lord and my God".(John 20:27-28)
Christianity is a cult no different than Mormonism.
This hurts me very much, comparing this cult Satan created with the True Church Jesus himself created.
It is like comparing black and white and seeing no difference. How blind are you?
I didn't know that this is an atheist blog, but from what Ray stated, this seems to be the case.
I feel pity for you, Samuel and Ray, for you don't know Christ.
Terrence.
Hi ,
ReplyDeleteIf anyone is interested in the Evangelical DVD which was targetted at mormon households in Utah on Sunday the 25th March , here is a link to view it
http://www.goodnewsforlds.org/video.html
I think its quite good and should make some Mormons think a little if they are open minded enough .
I think its a noble effort on behalf of Evangelicals who truly believe the Mormons are deceived .
I think Mormonism is a Con myself .
ElderJoseph
Terrence,
ReplyDeleteThis is a mormon truth blog and anyone here is free to form their own belief system after discovering the mormon fraud. I am not atheist. I believe in some sort of a higher power or else I would not be alive, just not the Christian god. When I state my opinions, I am talking for myself, not the group.
In the past, whenever I have talked with Christians, I always try to show them the flaws in the Bible (like they try to do with the Mormons and the Book of Mormon) and they always brush aside everything I bring up and never comment on it (just like the Mormons do). You believe the Bible, but why? Just because it says so? What proof is there, at all, that anything the Bible says is literally true?
This is why the Christian argument is weak, because it is based on a weak book that they don't even know how to defend (If they do know how, I have never see it). So I am challenging you, Terrence, to explain to me in great detail why you believe the Bible is true. And I won't accept stuff like, "It says it is," or "it just is," or "Jesus said it is", etc. If you believe there are certain points in the Bible that have been proven, please share and document it.
Mormon to Christianity is not black to white, it is more like gray to gray. Really, how are they so different? You both believe in books that are bogus; you both think your truth is the only truth; you both think your Jesus will save you; you both think the other is wrong; in spite of mountains of evidence to the contrary, you both still blindly believe in your religion. Any argument that you give will be the exact same argument that a Mormon will give. For example, if you say, "My Jesus is the true Jesus," so will the Mormons. If you say, "My church is true," so will the Mormons. If you say, "All other churches are false," so will the Mormons. There is no difference between you and them and yet you think it is black and white? No it is just one false branch of Christianity debating another false branch. They are both so busy screaming how right they are, that they forget that it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong.
And Thomas answered and said unto him "My Lord and my God".(John 20:27-28) Again, just because the Bible says so doesn't make it literally true. Remember, a Mormon can use that exact same verse to show that HIS Jesus is lord and god. That is why I keep asking for a better explanation because everything you say is exactly what a Mormon would say, which once again shows that there is no difference between the two of you.
Jesus himself said that he was God, that God and himself are one person.
Well, Buddah said he was enlightened. Joseph Smith said he was king of the world. Again, just because the Bible says that Jesus said something does not mean anything. I'm sorry but you need a stronger argument than that. As long as you keep up with "The Bible says this," and "Jesus said that," you will never convince me of your point.
Here's an example, by your logic, if something says it's true, then it's true. The Book of Mormon says many times in many places that it is true. I am sure the Koran (spelling) says it's true. And every other religion with their own "holy book" probably says it's true too.
Now I know what you will say... "The Book of Mormon says it's true but that's because it is trying to deceive people. Same with the Koran. But the Bible says it's true because it is true!" PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME THE DIFFERENCE!
If you are like every other Christian who I have talked to, you will just ignore everything I've said here (just like the Mormons do) and just keep spouting off scriptures. If you're not going to respond with a decent answer, then please don't waste your time.
"Just because it says so," is a pathetic defense of Christianity. Can't the truth stand up to any criticism? If your Jesus is so powerful, then confound me. But you can't, because Jesus is a myth and Christianity is just a cult.
I have issued a smiliar challenge to TBM's to have their Mormon god fry me with a lightening bolt, but guess what?!?! I'm still alive and kicking! No bolts, no nothing! Read the writing on the wall... you believe in a damn lie.
The Bible currently says that Jesus said he was god and people called him god. But this is a book of which the origins are unknown and of which there are several hundreds of years of gaps in the history of the New Testament. A lot can change over a 2000 year period, don't you think? So how do we really know that Jesus said anything the Bible says he does? In fact, how do we know Jesus even lived at all?
ReplyDeleteHere's an interesting piece of information... Jesus' language was Aramic, so we would expect the original documents of the New Testament to be written in Aramic, right? Although the original manuscripts are forever lost, experts agree that the original language was Greek. Now isn't it a bit odd that it was originally written in a language that Christ did not speak? If Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John knew Jesus personally, we must assume they spoke his language (Aramic) and would have written it in that language to preserve it they way he said it. This strongly shows that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did not know Jesus personally, AND there is evidence that the gospels were written some 150-200 years after the time of Christ. Think about it, each book says "The Gosepel According to so and so". It doesn't say, "The Gospel BY so and so!" The evidence for what I have shared is overwhelming. And there is much more!
I have no trouble with Evangelical Christians, or anybody, for that matter passing out DVD's to people.
ReplyDeleteWhat I do have a problem with is Evangeical Christians, or anybody for that matter, telling people to do things their way or go to hell.
Why can't people just get along?
It doesn't matter if Jesus exists or not, if the LDS church or the Evangelical churches are true or not...isn't it time to let go of all this nastiness and begin feeling love and compassion towards one another?
I think Samuel is doing a huge service to Mormons on the edge of leaving by exposing the truth. I never get the feeling that he is telling Mormons how to live their lives, but rather how HE sees the lies and fraud of the Mormon Church.
He is not telling people what to believe--he is telling people how HE believes.
For Christians to tell people that they will burn in hell if they do not believe in Jesus does not seem one bit Christlike.
In fact, the more I listen to Christians discuss what Christ would or would not do, I do not want anything to do with their Christ. He seems mean and vindictive.
I would love to see peace and harmony and love. That I do not see in any church, not Mormon, not Christian, not any of them.
I have come to see religion as a way to control people, not a way to love and enlightenment.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBonnie,
ReplyDeleteReligion is supposed to be all about love, but I have to agree with you completely... religion creates differences and contention.
Remember John Lennon's song Imagine. If people would just forget their differences and love each other, we can't imagine how much better the world would be.
I guess we are all guilty to a degree, especially me. In my last few comments I called Terrence a "gullible sucker" so, Terrence, if you're still here, I apologize for saying that.
I'd like to refer everyone back to the the last post I did and the comment that Rich just left, not responding to one thing I said and now calling me a racist and personally mocking me, what I do, claiming that I don't help anyone(Have I helped anyone here?), or do anything worthwhile, etc. He claims my logic is "feeble"...LOL!!
ReplyDeleteThis guy doesn't know me at all and has no idea what I do in my personal time or who I help or how, nor does he really care. His agenda is "THE CULT IS TRUE", and beyond that, nothing seems to matter, which is usually the case with these Mormon Apologists.
He has completely melted down and fully exposed himself as the pathetic, true, Mormon apologist that he is, by spewing a bunch of bullshit that has nothing to do with the topic and then attacking me personally with things that aren't true and have nothing to do with the subject at hand or the post or my comments.
If anyone has anything to say to Rich, I'd appreciate it, as I've pretty much said everything I can to the brainwashed, racist, Mormon Apologist idiot. This guy is truly as dumb as a box of rocks and actually I'd give a nod to the rocks.
He accuses me of nothing more than "spreading my own brand of religious intolerance, racism, and hatred." Meanwhile, he defends Mormon racism as if it's nothing and defends and justifies it all, in the spirit of "little flicks of history" Gordon B. Hinckley. But I'm the racist? Oh yeah and he sees no problem, even now, in 2007, calling black people the N-word. What a great guy!!
He then also admits to only "skimming" my posts, which would explain his utter stupidity and lack of knowledge, since I'm sure what he does with my blog, is an example of what he does with everything he reads, which shows in his astounding ignorance.
Anyway, I just thought I'd let you guys know about his comment in case you wanted to respond.
Thanks Bonnie for your comment. I wanted to say that my issue was never with the actual DVD itself, rather those dispersing it and their dishonest, underhanded methods and their arrogant agenda, and shameful condemning of ALL Mormons to burn in hell for eternity.
Like I keep saying; if you are so damn proud of your Jesus and condemnations, why the "secret plan" and hiding in the shadows and trying not to engage anyone.
These are the same guys that put out and supported the Godmakers and shout people down at Conference and the Manti Pageants and other pageants in Clarkston, Utah, Arizona, New York, etc? I guess they were trying to use the ol' bait and switch eh? We know these guys are hardcore and are not nice guys and they just wanted to try to appear nice and suck them in, before slamming them and threatening them with hellfire and damnation.
Anyway, I've said all I want to say about it, as everyone clearly knows how I feel about the project itself and those who are involved. It was also disappointing to me to see Sandra Tanner involved in this DVD project and it appears that I was in denial and naive in thinking that she wasn't actually one of these self-righteous soul condemners, but birds of a feather flock together and sadly, she is.
At least she isn't in your face and doing what these guys do, but she is helping their cause, which I guess is her cause as well. You can't tell me that she isn't aware of and supportive of their tactics and I guess that's why they all call what they are doing a "ministry."
I'll always be appreciative of what she's done to expose Mormonism, but disappointed with who she has chosen to associate with and the agenda she's pushing to all of those that actually leave Mormonism. Why can't people just love their Jesus/God, be happy and not have to go out of their way to condemn everyone that doesn't believe what they believe, which they claim to be "the one and only truth?" This is the very thing they condemn Mormons for and they are all hypocrites!!
Take care everyone and thanks for all of your comments!!
Samuel
Samuel wrote:
ReplyDeleteWhy can't people just love their Jesus/God, be happy and not have to go out of their way to condemn everyone that doesn't believe what they believe, which they claim to be "the one and only truth?"
Some while ago, I have read about "Memetics". You probably all know evolution theory.
An animal is born, grows up, reproduces with another individuum. The child then is a mixture of its parents. Sometimes, due to mutation, the genetic code changes.
Over the millenia, the species changes, new species are born, others die out.
Memetics is the application of this concept to ideas. Ideas are "born" in someone's mind. They "create children" if a person tells another about this idea. Some ideas die out, some mingle with others, some become strong and influencial.
It is crucial for an idea to spread, or it would die out.
Lets apply this to religions.If there was not a way to transfer the religion from one individuum to another, the religion would soon die out. This is what happened for example to the greek pantheon.
I guess that noone (?) nowadays believes in the greek gods.
How can religions prohibit their own death? They have to reproduce and spread. They perform this in two main ways:
1) Parents raise their children in their religion. Thus, a tradition is established. Mind that this is especially good for religions when people have many children. Guess why Mormonism promotes child-bearing and rearing so much?
2) Missionaries convert people who do not yet believe. This is another major means to growth. Christianity became influencial mainly through missionaries. Nowadays, the Jehovas Witnesses and Mormons are very active in proselytizing.
You see, a religion needs to apply methods to "reproduce", that is, to gain new members.
One trick is to promise a nicer heaven if you believe in that particular religion. What is so special about this is that believing is quite easy.
You don't have to behave well, you just have to believe in Jesus, that's all. And that's quite simple.
To conclude, those fanatic people who believe their religion is the only truth are but containers for ideas. The ideas of religions are like parasites which feast in their victim's body. In order to "infect" more people, the idea urges its victim to convert others by promising a better future in heaven.
So people like Sandra Tanner or Eric Hoffman are not guilty themselves, they are rather to be seen as being ill, ill with a parasite which has entered their brains and which tries to promulgate, using its hosts.
I don't know if it makes sense to you, guys.
Just my thoughts.
And sorry for my strange english, I am japanese.
Hideyosi Takada.
I do not see that big of problem with the Christians and their DVD, the tactics are no worse the bad things I was told to do on my mission. As long as Mormons are out there bothering people like me don't these guys have a right to annoy the Mormons. For the record I do not agree with anyone pushing their belief's on someone else be they Christian or Mormon.
ReplyDeleteMy two cents: I see no problem with the handing out of DVD's. I agree that it sounds like some of their methods are a little shady or dishonest, which is what I think bothers Samuel most - that and the condemning. I haven't seen the DVD, so I don't know how condemning it is. Simply talking about the Bible and asking for a change of faith isn't all that condemning, but threatening hellfire and eternal damnation is ... so, I guess we'll see what it says (I'll have to watch later).
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, the Mormons are deluded, and the Christians are deluded. However, that being said ... I have little to no sympathy for the mormon cause in this incident because:
a) Mormons harrass people constantly, and I sure as hell wish that someone had left a DVD on my door instead of two missionaries that converted me to the cult. I'd take that anyday!
b) Mormons are just as deceptive in their tactics (with the missionaries) ... not telling the whole truth, "milk before meat", etc., and converting people to a faith which turns out to be 180 degrees of a turnabout from what they expected.
So no, I don't have sympathy for the mormons. They think everyone else is going to hell or the 'terrestrial kingdom' for eternity (along with all sorts of awful ppl from history), they decieve and manipulate at your door, they harrass you with phone calls, visits and coming when unwanted ... so I don't give a damn about a DVD.
I will agree that the methods sound a little underhanded, and from the sound of it - these evangical nutjobs are certainly hypocrites and not ones to be preaching (from what I know of Samuel's dealings with them), which I think makes this even more ironic and stupid.
I'm glad if they get some people out of Mormonism ... if they turn to the cult of Christianity, so be it.
I think Samuel's annoyance comes in at the characters who are involved with this, who sound like absolute idiots lacking compassion and respect.
I don't respect anyone less for handing out the DVD's, but if they are having dealings with these characters ... then yes, my respect must drop somewhat.
At the end of the day, Christianity and Mormonism are emotional crutches used by weak people. Some days I want a crutch to lean on too, but I instead use my common sense, intellect and my own personal morality and love of my neighbour.
I just wish that everyone would gather the courage to desire TRUTH, research the facts, and accept the obvious conclusions. Maybe then we could progress into a truly civilized society.
Kent,
ReplyDeleteSo, one one hand, you "do not agree with anyone pushing their belief's on someone else be they Christian or Mormon", but then on the other hand, you "do not see that big of problem with the Christians and their DVD, the tactics are no worse the bad things I was told to do on my mission" and "As long as Mormons are out there bothering people like me don't these guys have a right to annoy the Mormon."(After the experiences you shared with all of us last night in the "private/invitation 'haters only...LOL' Skypecast" we had, I now completely understand why you feel this way. I think if I'd experienced the asshole Mormon missionaries that you have, I'd feel the exact same way you do!!)
For the record, once again, I'm strongly against BOTH and not supporting either!! I agree that Mormon missionaries are taught and programmed to lie, deceive and defraud everyone they meet(unbeknownst to most of them of course) and I'm against that big time, as everyone should know by now.
Although, I do think that they are more straight forward(by at least being willing to talk to people and give them a choice of whether they want a BOM, etc), than a bunch of Evangelicals running around hanging unwanted DVDs on people's front door, and then cutting and running, trying not to talk to or engage any Mormons at any cost, since those are the direct orders from headquarters.
Several things here are ironic and very hypocritical. First of all, these Evangelicals running the show and organizing this "secret DVD blitz”, from the Living Hope ministries here in Utah, always go around pointing their finger at Mormons for their "secret combinations." So what was this "secret plan" about guys? The direct order was to make sure that "no Mormons knew about it or saw the video before March 25."
That was just another reason that I chose to expose their stupid little plan. I mean hey, if they have nothing to hide, then it shouldn't be a problem, right?
============
I wrote this comment the other day Demon and I know we talked about this last night, but I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of these guys and what they accuse Mormons of, when they are doing the same thing and even worse in my opinion. Like I said last night; the world would be a far better place without either group or any group going around spreading their bullshit. They're all a bunch of fanatical, religious hypocrites!!
The world would be far better off without 52,000 + Mormon missionaries telling the world that their church is an abomination, with corrupt professors and false teachings, just as it would be without these nutjob, fanatical, radical, insane Evangelicals running around telling everyone(ESPECIALLY MORMONS), that they(and all their friends and family) are all going to burn in hell and gnash their teeth in hell/Hades/lake of fire and brimstone for all eternity, if they don't become Jesus freaks and follow them and their interpreted beliefs.
At least when Mormons condemn the rest of the world, they actually try to be nice about it and offer alternative “kingdoms of glory”(even though that means no eternal family and eternal separation from all loved ones, friends and family)...as the Evangelicals could learn something from the Mormons on how to properly and nicely condemn people, couldn’t they...LOL!!?
Anyway, all of this just shows what a joke and fraud all religion is, as everyone believes that THEY have the only truth. How many people have been killed, slaughtered, raped and brutalized in every way, in the name of God or hey, even at the supposed direct command of God through his supposed Prophets like Moses.
Maybe one day people will pull their head out of their ass and realize that their God commanding the mass slaughter and execution of innocent men, women and children isn't moral or inspirational. Then again, for some, sadly, that is inspirational and they live their lives accordingly.
Take care guys and thanks everyone for the awesome Skypecast last night and thanks Demon for your comments and insights.
Samuel