Friday, October 21, 2005

Here Are Some More "Classic Hinckley Moments" From "The Mormon Prophet", To Include On The List Of Embarrassing Quotes From National Interviews!!

First I just want to say that is one of my favorite subjects; Hinckley's Interviews. These interviews are what directly led me to leave the Church. After reviewing them all back in April, it led me to research all the questions that I had and well, here I am. It started out innocent for me but I found them to be so disturbing, both in what he said and didn't say, I would say that Gordon B. Hinckley is 100% responsible for my new gained freedom and discovering that the Mormon Church was a complete fraud. Thank you GORDO!! Here are a few things I'd like to add to this list of Hinckley's greatest interview blunders.

This was Gordon B. Hinckley's interview in Winter of 2002, prior to the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Olympics, with a German TV reporter. Here are some of the highlights but I highly recommend that for those that haven't watched this interview, watch the whole thing, it's very revealing.

Check out the DNA question. I have a pretty good source telling me that that question was never supposed to be asked and was added right before the interview after he suggested it. I have links at the end.





























Here is the video link(requires Windows Media Player):

Here is the Text link:

I also wanted to add a couple of statements from his San Francisco Chronicle Interview:

Q: You are the president, prophet, seer and revelator of the Mormon Church?

I am so sustained, yes.(Laughter)

Q: Now, how would that compare to the Catholic Church?
Do you see yourself as Catholics would see the pope?

A: Oh, I think in that we're both seen as the head officer of the church, yes.

Q: And this belief in contemporary revelation and prophecy? As the prophet, tell us how that works.
How do you receive divine revelation? What does it feel like?

A: Let me say first that we have a great body of revelation, the vast majority of which came from the prophet Joseph Smith. We don't need much revelation. We need to pay more attention to the revelation we've already received.

Now, if a problem should arise on which we don't have an answer, we pray about it, we may fast about it, and it comes. Quietly. Usually no voice of any kind, but just a perception in the mind. I liken it to Elijah's experience. When he sought the Lord, there was a great wind, and the Lord was not in the wind. And there was an earthquake, and the Lord was not in the earthquake. And a fire, and the Lord was not in the fire.
But in a still, small voice. Now that's the way it works.

Q: The church has issued a statement concerning the campaign for legal recognition of same-sex marriages in Hawaii and other states. And the church has asked its members to write to their legislatures opposing this.

A: Yes. We've been involved in some action against same-sex marriages. Now, we have gays in the church. Good people. We take no action against such people -- provided they don't become involved in transgression, sexual transgression. If they do, we do with them exactly what we'd do with heterosexuals who transgress.

We have a very strong moral teaching concerning abstinence before marriage and total fidelity following marriage. And, regardless of whether they're heterosexuals or otherwise, if they step over that line there are certain sanctions, certain penalties that are imposed.

What about gay people who feel God made them that way? You're saying they must lead a celibate life?

Well, yes, I suppose, essentially. A lot of people live a celibate life. Lots of them. A third of the people in the United States are now single. Many of them live a celibate life.

Q: But what homosexuals say is they don't have the opportunity to marry and be monogamous and faithful.

A: We believe that marriage, of a man and a woman, is that which is ordained of God for the procreation of children. That's a very sacred thing and is ordained of God and ought to be observed.

Q: One more question: A few years back, the church excommunicated some dissidents. Is the church large enough to put up with having a loyal opposition?

A: It has always had that. We believe in intellectual curiosity. We carry it on constantly. We maintain the largest church-owned university in America.
We believe in education, in thinking, in doing things. But when somebody goes out and publicly fights the church, opposes the church, then we move in.

Now, we had six excommunications, as I remember. That same year, in the state of Utah, we had more than 5,000 convert baptisms. Six versus 5,000 convert baptisms. Now that's the picture. But these are blown all out of proportion. They attract the media.

Link to San Francisco Chronicle Interview:

Now one more amazing exchange that I never get tired of Sharing. This one was just last December on Larry King Live:

King: But as the morales have changed - for example,
I know that the Church is opposed to gay marriage.


KING: Do you have an alternative? Do you like the idea of civil unions?

Well, we're not anti-gay. We are pro-family. Let me put it that way.

And we love these people and try to work with them and help them.
We know they have a problem. We want to help them solve that problem.

A problem they caused, or they were born with?

I don't know. I'm not an expert on these things. I don't pretend to be an expert on these things. The fact is, they have a problem.

KING: Do you favor some sort of state union?

HINCKLEY: Well, we want to be very careful about that, because that -
whatever may lead to gay marriage, we're not in favor of.

We - many people don't get married. Goodness sakes alive. You know that.

Many people who have to discipline themselves.
If they transgress, they become subject to the discipline of the Church. But we try in every way that we know how to help them, to assist them, to bless their lives.

KING: It's hard to be a Mormon, isn't it?

HINCKLEY: No. It's wonderful.

KING: Not hard.

HINCKLEY: No, no. It's just wonderful. It's demanding. Great expectations. I should say so. But it's wonderful.

Here's the link:

Samuel the Utahnite

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Thursday, October 20, 2005

I Just Wanted My Readers To know Where "Mormon Truth" Ranks On MSN And Google Under Different Searches, Thanks To All Of You!! Let's Keep It Going!!

I just wanted to do this post to thank everyone that is reading my blog and for the high rankings that we are enjoying on many searches that people are doing. I'm also doing this post to point out that even a simple blog like this one can get very wide exposure in a very short amount of time. In just over 2 and a half months, we have over 8,000 hits and I think that is awesome!! I would say that at the moment, 90% of the people that are finding my site for the first time, are doing it through MSN or GOOGLE searches under a variety of different subjects and searches. Let me share just a few of the rankings of "Mormon Truth" based on specific searches that people are doing. Also, we will soon be listed on a website called high class blogs which should get us even more traffic and visibility.

First of all, this blog, "Mormon Truth", has been ranked number one and number two on MSN when somebody simple searches for "Mormon Truth", for at least the last month and a half. Here are several examples of where we are ranked and how the word is spreading thanks to all of you guys. I've only had this blog for about 2 and a half months, so I'm honored to be so highly ranked, so quickly. You guys are awesome!!


Web Results (Ranked number 1st and 2nd)

Page 1 of 343,849 results containing "Mormon truth"

Mormon Truth!!
... Amazon, where you can buy it for $16.47. For anyone that is hedging, wants to know the truth about the Mormon Church or on the fence, take the plunge for 16 bucks and you'll be glad you did. This book ...

Mormon Truth!!: Some Interesting Tidbits On The Mormon Church(AKA, The ...
Notify Blogger about objectionable content. What does this mean? BlogThis! Mormon Truth!! This will be a daily log on the happenings of the Mormon Church. I will share my opinions and viewpoints ...

Web Results (Ranked number 1)

Page 1 of 22,824 results containing "Mormon abuses"

Mormon Truth!!: How the Mormon Church abuses and takes advantage of ...
... from the "real truth!!" Have no fear, the truth is here!! Sunday, August 14, 2005 How the Mormon Church abuses and takes advantage of the Elderly!! Earlier tonight on the recovery from Mormonism ...

Web Results (Ranked 1st and 2nd)

Page 1 of 41,395 results containing "alcohol and Mormons"

Mormon Truth!!: Mormons, Pornography, alcohol, hypocrisy, Marriott's ...
... the "real truth!!" Have no fear, the truth is here!! Wednesday, September 21, 2005 Mormons, Pornography, alcohol, hypocrisy, Marriott's and tithing!! Here is an article that I wrote on June 28th of ...

Web Results (Ranked 3rd and 4th)

Page 1 of 68,716 results containing
"Mormon fraud"

Mormon Truth!!: What were the things that proved to me that the Mormon ...
... of the Mormon Church. I will share my opinions and viewpoints without holding back. The Mormon Church is a fraud and I will be exposing them on a daily basis. They can run and cover up but they can't ...

Web Results (Ranked number 1 and number 2)

Page 1 of 4,432 results containing "1978 revelation moron church" (0.31 seconds)
Mormon Truth!!: Forget Moroni's Promise, Put Hinckley's Promise To The ...
... face the matter—either the Church is true, or it is a fraud ... without ever receiving any revelation or warning from God or even the ... having the Priesthood until 1978 because they were the "seed of ...

Web Results (Ranked number 1)

Page 1 of 6,067 results containing the "Marriott and Mormons"

Mormon Truth!!: Mormons, Pornography, alcohol, hypocrisy, Marriott's ...
... truth!!" Have no fear, the truth is here!! Wednesday, September 21, 2005 Mormons, Pornography, alcohol, hypocrisy, Marriott's and tithing!! Here is an article that I wrote on June 28th of this year ...

Web Results (Ranked 12th and 13th)

Page 1 of 152,423 results containing
"real truth of missionaries bad"

Mormon Truth!!: Elder Mickelsen Can See Your Inner Light?! My Personal ...
... they can't hide from the "real truth!!" Have no fear, the truth is ... so amazing that us innocent missionaries were actually a little scared ... and know if we were good or bad, if we masturbated or not ... Cached page

Mormon Truth!!: Mormon Missionary Takes Disgusting Picture Of Himself ...
... can't hide from the "real truth!!" Have no fear, the truth ... not too far from the truth. We wonder who the missionaries are teaching and why the ... say that it's just as bad for me to show this picture ...

Web Results (Ranked 1st and 2nd)

Page 1 of 69,042 results containing
"Mormon mission experiences"

Mormon Truth!!: Another One Of My Many Mormon Mission Experiences In ...
... Have no fear, the truth is here!! Wednesday, September 14, 2005 Another One Of My Many Mormon Mission Experiences In Argentina!! Well, I've shared several of my mission stories but I felt that I ...

Web Results (Ranked 17th and 18th)

Page 1 of 98,580 results containing "what is owned by the Mormon church"

Mormon Truth!!: Some Interesting Tidbits On The Mormon Church(AKA, The ...
... How to Contact Us This site is owned and operated by Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day ... in your life as far as the Mormon Church goes, but I hope that this post ...

Mormon Truth!!: Does The Mormon Church Lie About Gambling Being A Big ...
... The other day, somebody on Mormon recovery , mentioned that their Bishop owned several casinos, so we know that the ... Once again, it is the Mormon Church saying do as we say, not as we do. The ...

Web Results (Ranked 1st and 2nd)

Page 1 of 34,525 results containing
"famous Mormon quotes or Famous Mormon Apostles"

Mormon Truth!!: Famous Mormon Prophet's/Apostle's Quotes--The Mormon ...
... real truth!!" Have no fear, the truth is here!! Tuesday, September 20, 2005 Famous Mormon Prophet's/Apostle's Quotes--The Mormon Hall Of Shame-Volume 1!! Man, there are so many, I don't even know ...

Mormon Truth!!
... Mormon Hall of Shame volume 1 page" and decided that these quotes by famous Mormon Prophets and Apostles deserved to have their own page. It just seems fitting after my pages on the Church deciding to ... Cached page
Show more results from "".

Web Results
(Ranked 8th)

Page 1 of 2,931 results containing
"Simon Southerton"

Mormon Truth!!: When will the church abide by their Simon Southerton ...
... sex with over thirty women, not ONE of whom was his legal wife, excommunicating a guy like Simon Southerton for having an "inappropriate" relationship with a woman, is really grotesque, and is only ...

Web Results (Ranked 1st and 2nd)

Page 1 of 4,488 results containing "Gordon b Hinckley fraud"

Mormon Truth!!: Gordon B. Hinckley knows the "real" truth, isn't it ...
... the truth is here!! Sunday, July 31, 2005 Gordon B. Hinckley knows the "real" truth, isn't it obvious ... is that obviously he knows that it's all a fraud and is basically trying to tell us it is ...

Mormon Truth!!: Time For Another Mormon Prophet Post Featuring Gordon ...
... occur. If it did not, then this work is a fraud. If it did, then it is the most important and wonderful work under the heavens. Now from Gordon B. Hinckley's speech, “Loyalty,” Ensign, May 2003, 58 ...

Google Searches

Web Results
(Ranked 19th)

1 - 100 of about 13,900 for
Elise Soukup

Mormon Truth!!From Elise Soukup I'm fact-checking my story about Joseph Smith and I'd like you ... Anyway, here was the more information that I promised on Elise Soukup, ... - 513k - Cached - Similar pages

Web Results
(Ranked 8th) (1st on MSN)

1 - 96 of about 149 for
"excommunicated Mormon sister missionaries for adultry"(Also, this search mispelled "adultery."When spelled correctly on MSN, it ranks 8th and 9th and around 35th on Google

Mormon Truth!!

I find this behavior by these Mormon missionaries to be despicable, ... That last
statement I just made would get me excommunicated from the Mormon bigot ... - 513k - Cached - Similar pages

Web Results
(Ranked 5th)

1 - 100 of about 2,440,000 English pages for
"Mormon truth."

Mormon Truth!!
Mormon Truth!! This will be a daily log on the happenings of the Mormon Church. ... For anyone that is hedging, wants to know the truth about the Mormon ... - 513k - Cached - Similar pages

Anyway guys, I didn't write this post to boast or brag as we still have much to accomplish. Rather, I wrote this post simply to show all of you out there how much progress we can make in a very short period of time. I simply wanted to share my exitement with all of you out there that make this stuff happen. Most of the people reading this blog are either EX-Mormons or people that are searching for the truth. I am very stoked that this site, our site, is so highly ranked under so many different searches. Whether it's this site or Recovery From Mormonism(RFM)/The Mormon Curtain/Joseph Lied/The Church is not true/REthinking Mormonism/Utah light house ministry/Real Mormon History/Helping Mormons/LDS-Mormon/Tungate/Mormon No More, plus many more sites, we all have the same goals. With all of these great sites out there, it is becoming harder and harder for this Mormon fraud of a cult to continue hiding their skeletons. The higher ranked these site are when people do their searching, the greater the chance that they will discover the truth just like we all did. That's what this is really all about.

The last site that I mentioned, Mormon No More, is Kathy Worthington's site and she walks people through exactly what you need to do when you are ready to resign and how to write you resignation letter. I highly recommend her site and commend her for her efforts in helping so many people to freedom.We in the EXMO community, with websites, are united in wanting to help people to discover the "real truth." We want to expose the Mormon Church for the fraud they are but also help people that are making that very difficult, emotional transition from the Mormon Church and into reality and real life. We try to provide the "real truth" and uncover and share the "true history" that the Mormon Church has been trying to hide for over 175 years.

What makes the Mormon Church so difficult to leave is the fact that for many people, the Mormon Church has been their entire social structure for their entire life. It involves their immediate Family, Extended Family, Friends, Employer, Employees, etc. When People leave the Mormon Church, a lot of these people will turn on them or see them as lost or deceived by the Devil. This creates a very difficult path from the very beginning.

The Mormon Church, by it's teachings, destroys and divides Families and Friendships on a daily basis. It is indeed a very destructive, mind controling cult!! I've already had this experience in my own life. Lets keep in mind from a Mormon doctrine perspective, anyone that isn't active Mormon, is an abomination and on the devil's side. They are, in affect, now an enemy and advesary to God and anyone that belongs to his one and only true church. You can see the difficulty this can create and it's a very sad commentary on the Mormon cult and the effects it has on it's current and former members.

Thanks again guys for reading my blog and spreading the word. Tell as many people as you can about this site and the ones that I mentioned above. Lets counter the Mormon multi-level corporation of fraud with our own multi-level company of truth. WE have nothing to hide, they have everything to hide. WE have nothing to fear, they have everything to fear. It's always easier to fight a battle like this when we have truth on our side. The more people that find these sites, the more people will be able to free themselves from the Mormon cult. Keep up the great work everybody!!

Again, for anyone that has personal experiences or knowledge of something that you would like me to share, even anonymously, just Email me and share it with me. Again, I really appreciate everyone's Emails and words of encouragement. For those that I have helped in anyway and for those that have Emailed me their thanks for helping them, I'm just glad that I could help and thank you for your thanks which keeps me going and shows me that my efforts are worth it and paying off. I also want everyone to know that writing this blog is also my way of healing and helping myself. If I can help others in the process, fantastic!!

The EXMO community is like one big family and we are growing by the day. We may have different ideas or opinions on various subjects, but ultimately, we all have the same basic goals. Take care everyone and thanks for all that you do.

Samuel the Utahnite

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005

OK Guys, Check Out This Ultimate Use Of Fear And Threats, Instilled By A Mormon Bishop To The Congregation At A Ward Conference!!

UPDATE-Feb 17 2009-I didn't reveal this asshole Bishop's name back in 2005, but I will reveal it now, so that he can be ridiculed, mocked and shamed publicly; the way he threatened, mocked and cursed these people back in 2005.

The Bishop's name was Bishop Stephenson of the Lenexa, Kansas Stake. I'm not sure which ward it was exactly in that Stake, but I'll do further research on that.

Meanwhile, if anyone reading this knows who I'm talking about and which ward he was in; please let us know in the comments...thanks!!

This is one of the greatest abuses of Authority, by a Mormon Bishop, from the pulpit, that I'm personally aware of in my 30 + years of being associated with the Mormon Church. This statement comes directly, word for word from a missionary currently out in the field, that sends a weekly Email to his Family, who then forward it on to friends of the Family. I know that we have several archived threads in RFM on "missionary abuse", but this is definitely "member abuse."

I've been debating on whether to reveal the ward location and the name of the Bishop to the whole world, in order to show what an abusive coward this piece of garbage Bishop really is. I'm still shaking my head in astonishment over his arrogance. What's even more amazing, is that I'm assuming the brainwashed Morgbots just sat there and said nothing as he threatened them and tried to scare them into action. No member of any Church deserves this type of mental, emotional and psychological abuse.

This reminded me of Tal Bachman's story about General Authority William R. Bradford comparing people that were called to be Stake missionaries as Grade A or grade B berries VS. the rotten, damaged berries and calling them 'culls'. He then said,
"So what do you do with them? You have to put them somewhere, so 'the culls' end up getting called as stake missionaries. It happened every time. There was nowhere else to put them. But they didn't really do anything there either, so we just eliminated the whole program".

Here is the link to that entire story. I highly recommend that everybody read this very revealing story if you haven't already. Thanks Tal for sharing your personal experiences with all of us:

May the Mormon God help any Bishop/Stake President/General Authority, that ever makes a statement like this, or the one that I'm about to share, in a meeting where I'm in attendance. I think for now, I'm going to keep the location and Bishop's name private, but let me know what you guys think should be done about this. I want the whole world to know what this horse's ass is saying.

Anyway guys, here is the statement and I look forward to your responses and suggestions:

"Sunday was crazy we had our stake meeting with XXXX stake at 7:00 am. We then went straight to church at 9:00. It was ward conference and Bishop XXXX talked on some things that the ward needs to work on.The last thing that he spoke of was missionary work. HE said that the Lord is not pleased with the lack of missionary work that the members are doing. HE said that the Lord is WITHHOLDING BLESSINGS and that if they did not start doing their missionary work that THE LORD WOULD BRING DOWN A CURSING UPON THEM. I think that it was the first time that I have heard a bishop or anyone in church prophesy."

Well, there it is guys!! The Bishop has both promised and threatened the members of this ward that if they don't "start doing their missionary work", that "THE LORD WOULD BRING DOWN A CURSING UPON THEM." Furthermore, I find it disgusting and unbelievable that this missionary is so giddy and happy about hearing someone "prophesy" for the first time without any regard for what this "prophecy" was.

I guess if it is the first time for him, to ever see anyone prophesy, he must not get too much out of Hinckley or General Conference, but we all knew that already. What has Hinckley come up with? Women can't wear two earrings and let's cancel all missionary farewells and homecomings because, frankly, they don't deserve them!! He should be asking himself, why does a Bishop "prophesy" and the Prophet of God, of the one and only true church on the face of the earth, doesn't?

I think that these remarks, by this Bishop, shows us how DESPERATE the Mormon Church is getting. Was this the Bishop's statement, did it come from Salt Lake or the Stake President or the Area Presidency? Is this their new modus operandi? Are they now at the point of threatening and scaring members with "a cursing" from the pulpit in order to get their numbers and further fill their coffers with more tithing and fast offering funds?

I wonder how these members felt when they went to ward conference to feel the spirit and maybe try to get closer to God and ended up leaving with the promise of a cursing from God, prophesied and relayed by their Bishop, if they didn't start doing their missionary work?

I can say that where I live and in several other areas where I have contacts and friends or family, it is beginning to hit the fan big time. I think that the articles in the Tribune this week prove that they are going full throttle right now to find all of the so called "in transit" members. I mean, they now have call centers, etc, it's unbelievable.

They are now having special meetings both on the local and stake levels to organize their all out efforts to begin reactivating and finding the "lost souls." I get reports every week and they are planning their attack as we speak and this Bishop's remarks confirm what we all know is coming and planned. What happened to free agency? Oh yeah, I forgot, you don't have any when you belong to a damn cult!!

Samuel the Utahnite

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Monday, October 17, 2005

More Mormon Missionary Insights And Experiences Straight From The Mission Field From Current Mormon Missionaries Along With My Opinions And Comments!!

I'm currently keeping tabs on 3 current Mormon Missionaries who are out in the Mission field as we speak. They all have a year or longer to go, so I should have plenty to write about and share over the next 18 months. Two of them are in the United States and the other one is in Peru. Their letters and words continue to astound me. It's hard to believe that I was once one of these missionaries that would have said similar things or thought in a similar manner. I don't think that I was quite as extreme as these 3, but I was pretty close at different times during my mission.

Well, with that said, let me get to the most current quotes that I have and want to share. Pay attention to how judgmental they are toward anybody that doesn't want to hear their teachings or somebody that changes their mind in regard to taking the discussions. One other common thing with all missionaries and all missions; they seem to gravitate to the poor or mentally disabled people since they are basically the only people that will listen to their lessons and get baptized. I would say that those people, the poor, or mentally disabled, make up the majority of Mormon convert baptisms and then they wonder why they have such a massive retention problem?

In my opinion, the future of the Mormon Church is very bleak. The only future strength in the Mormon Church lies with the generational Mormons not current converts. The Mormon Church is weakening year by year with the poor quality of baptisms. Basically, it is catching up to them and things are now coming full circle. The Mormon Church is now even losing the generational Mormons due to the Internet and exposure of the "real Mormon truth."

Also, the common theme on Mormon Missions, is that anyone that stops listening or doesn't want to listen in the first place, must have been overcome or is controlled by Satan. After all, Satan is working hard everyday to destroy God's work and disrupt and corrupt, the "chosen people."

I, personally know what these missionaries go through with the pressure for numbers and the mental and psychological abuse that the Mormon cult slams them with on a daily basis. These methods of abuse begin in Salt Lake and are passed on to the Area Presidency, the Mission President, then onto the Assistants, Zone Leaders and District Leaders. Heads will roll on ever level if the numbers aren't what they should be.

I feel very sad and compassionate for missionaries when they are depressed or suffering because they are being told that they just aren't cutting it. It infuriates me that the mental abuse continues on without missing a beat. Damn cult!! Now onto what I created this post for. The missionary's comments are in red and mine are in blue after each paragraph. I have tried to delete actual names and places just to help these guys keep their privacy as much as possible.

Here are the quotes:

The missionary in Peru-"We got some really cool baptisims coming up. Its amazing when you bring a family together. One of our first families we baptised “La familia xxxxxxxxxx” were doing fantastic until four days ago. The mother has been listening to filth from her nieghbors and instead of praying and asking for direction she sat idle and did nothing. Within a matter of four days what was once a strong testimony blew away. At the same time though with the same doubts her husband did what he knew he should when he had a question. He read and prayed and within four days his testimony was stronger than most life long members. It was just like Elder Irying´s talk on how testimonies have a short self-life. When we don´t exercise our testimonies they disappear into nothingness. That’s what I learned this week in Peru. Everything is fine here, thanks for the e-mails and everything.

Notice how he says, "The mother has been listening to 'filth' from her neighbors?" Give me a damn break!! I guess that it isn't even in the realm of possibility that she just decided, with her own "free agency", study and knowledge, that it wasn't for her. Imagine this all you "TBMS" out there, **gasp**, what if she FELT, yeah, FELT, that it was wrong? What if the "Holy Ghost", told her not to join? Well, I guess that isn't really possible when you are missionaries or members of the "one and only true Church on the face of the planet." Can you see the arrogance of the Mormon Church and the arrogance that is instilled in their missionaries?

Remember, from the First Vision, that all other Churches are false and abominations!! So, coming from that frame of mind, it is literally impossible for anyone to feel that the Mormon Church is false, unless they are inspired by Satan himself. Yes, it must be the Devil that made them do it and beguiled them, right? Well, in their eyes, the Devil is the only option that would make someone turn their back on the "one and only true Church" on the face of the earth. To me, this is truly disgusting and ABOMINABLE!!

So, let me get this straight, the Church preaches "free agency" as the entire point of the "war in heaven" and why we(those of us here on earth) chose Jesus' plan over Satan's in the Pre-existence, but yet, those of us here, have no other option or path, but to follow the Mormon way? If we don't and chose our own path, we are following Satan? Does that sound like "free agency" to anyone reading this? That sounds to me like some pretty jacked up, ridiculous BS!! Those of you that actually believe this, well, I can't help you if your choice is to throw out all logic and any common sense. Those that actually believe this to be true, well, I wish you the best!!

One more thing that I learned from the paragraph above, is that once again, the Mormon Church is going to divide a Family. The Mormon Church preaches their BS about "families are forever", etc, when the reality is families are only forever if they all believe the exact same way and are active in the Mormon Church. If one person leaves, then the Family isn't forever anymore unless that person comes back to the "Mormon fold." How damaging, destructive and divisive the Mormon Church is in these instances. In this particular case, the missionary says, "He read and prayed and within four days his testimony was stronger than most life long members."

Now, compare that to the fact that this man's wife, " has been listening to 'filth' from her neighbors and instead of praying and asking for direction she sat idle and did nothing." Can you see a problem developing in this relationship courtesy of the Mormon Church? So, if this man gets baptized and his wife doesn't, she will have no choice but to get baptized if she ever wants to see her Husband or Children in the next life!!

So, once again, the Mormon Church and it's highly trained and brainwashed missionaries, are destroying another Family. The man is wonderful, choosing the right path and his wife is going down the path to hell based on here decision not to continue with the missionary discussions. Now if this man becomes a "TBM", can you imagine the pressure that he will put on his wife and the fights that will ensue? This is criminal!! How many of these people were perfectly happy or at least doing well, getting by just fine, before the Mormon missionaries came by and completely screwed up their Family in the name of God and tithing? It is sickening!! The Mormon Church is a destructive, intrusive cult!!

The missionary in the New York area-"The work has been going well. We have been doing A LOT of tracting, to try to find people that are prepared. We found 3 great families through tracting, and now we are at the critical stage with them where we need to urgently but not overbearingly follow up on these people, and get them to church. It will be nice."

They are now at the "critical stage" with them. So, they need to be "urgent but not overbearingly?" Interesting, at least he might be trying to not be a complete overbearing ass like the Mormon Church trains missionaries to be. But then he follows it up with "and get them to church." Oh well, I was hoping!! Just remember as you read this stuff, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS!! Seriously, it's all about the numbers every single day in a missionary's life. The pressure is tremendous!!

In my mission, as well as many others that I personally know, if you don't perform, meaning getting lots of contacts, discussions and baptisms, then you are constantly doing divisions with District Leaders, Zone Leaders and in some extreme cases, the Assistants to the President. When the latter happens and the Assistants show up, you know that you are screwed. Also, whatever you do, DO NOT GET SICK!! Everyone will assume that you are faking it, evening when you have the runs every 10 minutes while you are puking black crap up!! Now, also keep in mind that these missionaries are volunteers whose Families are paying their way. It would be one thing if the Mormon Church paid for missionaries and they were employees of the Mormon Church but the fact is, they are not. To me, that is what makes the situation so much worse.

"One of our new investigators, A***, is doing well. He is in a wheelchair, and has ADD and very little social skills. At church, when he talks to people, if they aren’t prepared he can make people feel awkward. We are working with him, and I think things will be fine. He is excited about the church, and needs it badly in his life, as we all do."

Okay, this guy is "in a wheel chair, has ADD and very little social skills." He apparently embarrasses the missionaries and makes members feel awkward "if the aren't prepared." What do they do, warn everybody about how weird the guy is in advance, if they can? But, despite all of this, they "are working with him and things will be fine." After all, "he is excited about the Church and needs it badly in his life, as we all do." It sounds to me like this poor guy may be suffering from some other things as well. He doesn't sound to me like someone that is in a position to be getting the mission discussions and deciding on whether to be baptized. Remember in the Mormon Church, it's all about the outward appearance. Anyway, I guess that we'd have to know all the details to know for sure.

"Things are going really good here. The work has been great. We have a guy we are working with, A****, who has been a great investigator. He went to all 5 sessions of conference. On Monday he agreed to baptism. On Tuesday, we told him about the word of wisdom, anticipating that it would be hard for him to give up coffee, since he had been a truck driver and was proud of his brewing equiptment. We told him about it, and he had no problems. He just said, “okay, I’ll give it up". That was nice."

Now this guy sounds like so many from my mission that we taught. Basically, the missionaries manipulate the guy into not drinking alcohol, tea, coffee or smoking. He doesn't really want to stop and in most cases has no intention of doing so. But at the same time, the missionary discussions are worded in such a way, with the commitments and challenges, that he/she feels obligated to say yes. So, basically, Mormon missionaries force people to lie by pressuring them to agree to something that they aren't ready to agree to. These guys even "anticipated that it would be hard for him to give up coffee, since he had been a truck driver and was proud of his brewing equipment." So, this guy, who has most likely drank coffee for his entire life "had no problems with it" and agreed not to drink coffee anymore, "just like that." He just said, "okay, I'll give it up." No worries, anything for the Mormon Church and missionaries, right?

Like I said, I knew so many people like this on my mission. They liked us as people, thought we were cool, couldn't say no to us, agreed to every single thing we asked them to do, so that they would have the privilege of joining God's one and only true Church on the face of the earth. Then, they would get baptized, come to Church for a couple of weeks and then stop coming. We would go to visit them and find them smoking a cigarette with a beer in the other hand. We were horrified!! How could somebody turn their back on the spirit that they had felt? Sometimes, they would hide and we could hear them inside whispering and scurrying around. We could smell the smoke from outside, since most of them lived in wooden shacks full of cracks, etc.

Anyway, we were always so hurt and sad to think that they had turned their backs on the truth, so quickly. Plus, that was their one chance since they had felt the spirit confirm that the Church was true and now they were going to be screwed for all eternity if they didn't come back to the fold. Also, we would have to testify against them at the last day. How screwed up is that BS? All I can say, is wow, I really believed all this crap? Everybody in the world is actually better off if they never meet Mormon missionaries and never get baptized. Again, if they accept the truth or feel the spirit confirm to them the truthfulness of Mormonism, then they reject it, they will be ineligible for the Celestial Kingdom.

But, if they never meet Mormon missionaries, live a life of sin, partying, drugs, etc, they will have their chance in the Spirit world to accept or reject the Gospel. Of course at that point, faith will no longer be necessary since they will know that they are dead. They would know that there is a hereafter and that God exists, no more Satan or temptation, etc. Sounds pretty screwed up, doesn't it? Why wouldn't they accept, knowing that everything is true and it will be to their advantage? So, these people can get a pass straight to the Celestial Kingdom and live with God after living a complete life of sin, while those of us that had the truth and fell short, are completely screwed and separated from our Friends and Family.

I guess they can wave at us poor suckers that had to endure to the end, blessed with the truth, but failed, as they zoom up to the Celestial Kingdom laughing their asses off. It doesn't even make any common sense at all. This is just another example of how screwed up and inconsistent Mormon doctrine is when you really stop to think about things. It is a complete joke!! Any TBMS reading this, or people on the fence, just think about that please. It should help you to know that this "Mormon plan", is a complete fraud and makes no sense!!

"The others we are working with are doing fine as well. We are working with N**** S*******’s wife, M****. N**** is a Jewish convert, and majored in Judaic studies. He is really strong in the gospel. M**** was raised Catholic, and has had a hard time accepting things other than Catholicism. However, she is beginning to like us more and more, and N**** has faith that with time, she will join the church."

So, here we go again. He is already baptized, his wife isn't and the missionaries are trying to work her over to get her baptized. The interesting thing is that this missionary is equating the fact that "she is beginning to like us more and more" with the fact that she may eventually get baptized. Meanwhile, her Husband, "a Jewish convert that is very strong in the Gospel, has faith that with time, she will join the Church." I wonder what kind of toll this takes on their marriage, especially when the missionaries keep coming by and her Husband pressures her to join. I just think that it's wrong to do this to Families. People should be free to chose whatever they want to do without a horrendous guilt trip to hell. After all, as I mentioned earlier in this post, isn't that what we fought for in the "war in Heaven", according to Mormon doctrine and teachings? The Mormon Church brags about that fact that they are the only Church in the world to have such a large missionary force. I say that they are the only Church in the world to intrude so much into peoples private and personal lives in order to divide and destroy Family bonds in order to try to get tithing money. It's no skin of the Mormon General Authorities ass since the members and Missionaries flip the entire bill. They just hope to get some new tithe payers to fatten their bottom line. Here was a post I did on the "real reason for the Mormon missionary program."

"The ward is doing great. We have really been trying hard to motivate them to do their member missionary work, and to get us referrals. Things have been working well. One family is bringing another family to church on Sunday. This is a family that we tracted into a few weeks ago, and they said they knew someone at church.

It is cool to see how the Lord puts prepared people in our path to teach."

Yep, isn't it cool to see how the Lord puts prepared people in the path of Mormon Missionaries? Amazing isn't it? Of course, he doesn't put people in the path of Seventh Day Adventists or Jehovah Witnesses, does he? It's just the Mormon Church that finds these special, amazing people prepared just for them by the Lord. Wow!!

"General conference was great. We got to watch all 5 sessions at church. It was really nice. It is incredible to see that we really have a Prophet on the earth, and 12 Apostles. I wish everybody in the world understood how signifigant that is."

I wish that everyone in the world realized that the Mormon Prophet and 12 Apostles, are complete money hungry, greedy, frauds!! I wish everybody in the world understood just how significant their fraud is!! The fact is, Mr. brainwashed missionary and all TBMS, that the world doesn't realize how significant the Mormon Prophet and Apostles are, because, the aren't relevant and do nothing significant, ever!! Why would anyone notice how wonderful or inspired "Mormon cult leaders" are? Why would anyone care? Do people in the world actually need these men in their life in order to proceed forward? Apparently not!! The only people that find these goons and clowns to be "significant", are "brainwashed TBMS." To the rest of the world, they are laughable joke!! Unfortunately, they lead a cult that values destroying and dividing Families.

"I miss you but I know that this is the Lord’s work that I am a part of. And the time is passing so quickly."

I also believed that I was doing the "Lord's work." After all, if you don't believe that you are, then what the hell would you be wasting two years of your life for?Even if you aren't sure, you just keep telling yourself that it's for the Lord. Like Boyd K. Packer says, "if you keep saying that you believe something, even if you don't believe it, eventually you will believe it. In other words, just keep saying it until you brainwash yourself into believing it!! Sounds like some great advice if you belong or lead a cult!!

"We have had a few good meetings with A****, and he accepted the challenge to be baptized. A**** is great, in that every time we go over to his house he improves. His wife and son are warming up to us, but they still haven’t listened in on the lessons. A**** will have his baptismal interview tomorrow, and everything should be fine for Saturday."

Here's another example of what I'm talking about!! This guy has already been forced and coerced to accept the challenge to be baptized. Meanwhile, his wife and son, whom he probably loves very much, are "warming up to them" but still haven't listened in on the lessons. But, who cares, this guy has his baptismal interview tomorrow and everything should be fine for Saturday. Yeah, everything should be fine accept the fact that his wife is against it and that she won't allow their son to get baptized. Other than that, everything is perfect. I wonder if she will go to the baptism? After all, let's keep in mind, it's all about the numbers!!

I wonder how his wife will feel when he has to start forking over 10% of their income. That should be a wonderful, pleasant day. Of course, he doesn't have to pay tithing, he has free agency right? Well, he doesn't have to pay tithing if he doesn't want to live with God in the Celestial Kingdom. However, what is the incentive if he is living with God in the Celestial Kingdom without his Wife and Son? Oh well, it doesn't matter, everything should be fine for the next life, right? Screw Family, screw your Parents, wife, kids, etc, as long as you are with God, everything will be great. Besides, there will be plenty of woman for him to enter into polygamous marriages with, right? I'm sure that Joseph Smith will be there to hook him up with some hot 14 year olds. Then again, all the 14 year olds might already be spoken for by Joseph Smith himself. Sick pervert!!

"Yesterday we had a zone conference and I got to meet with Pdte. XXXX. He’s a great guy. We had a good talk about all kinds of things. Also, this cycle we studied the Atonement in depth, using the Book of Mormon.

Reading the Book of Mormon really strengthens my testimony. I know that it isn’t a book that someone could have written, or a religion that any person or group of people could have invented."

Wow!! He knows, without a doubt, that the Book of Mormon, "isn't a book that someone could have written." He also knows that the Mormon Church, "isn't a religion that any person or group of people could have invented." It kind of sounds like to me that someone has been whispering evil things in his ear. Why would he need to say that? I'm sure that he hears that stuff every single day out in the "real world." It must be hard to hear that all the time, especially now in the Internet age, when everybody is finding out what a bogus fraud the Mormon Church really is. It kind of reminds me of Hinckley and here is the link, when he says, "Each of us has to face the matter—either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the Church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing."

Here is another good Hinckley post I recently wrote!!

Missionary serving in the Midwest of the USA:"Conference was the best. I loved every second of it. I took 22 pages of notes! Today I am going to take the time to type them all up."

I used to do the same crap. I was actually in the MTC during one General Conference and I took at least 20 pages of notes. I hung on their every word, after all, they are servants of God, divinely inspired, so I believed anyway. Their words literally fell from the mouth of God into their mind and then across the pulpit to me. I read them, re-read them and tried to learn all that I could from what I considered to be these incredibly wise men. I was so deep into their mind control and brainwashing program, that I saw these men as next to Deity.

"We have had a busy week, with conference and all. We also had a Zone meeting with all of the District leaders on Fri. Then yesterday we had our Zone Conference. It was awesome. I received a lot of inspiration as we were taught. One thing that I realized was that the Spirit testifies the same in meetings like it does in conference. I am very grateful for the guidance of the Spirit. I don’t know what I would do without it. They sure talked about reading the Book of Mormon a lot in conference. I loved it. When Pres. Hinckley first issued the challenge to read it I had just finished and was in about 2 Nephi so I did not start over. The same with my Comp. So we decided to start over and in addition to his challenge, read it 3 times before the end of the year. It will only take about 20 pages per day. As I have done it I have felt the promised blessings come into my life. You don’t have to finish the Book to begin to see the Lord bless your life. It has been great. It will be a challenge but it is something that I never have done before. I set a plan and I will stick with it like Elder Eyring said we should do."

This is the biggest load of crap in the Mormon Church!! This whole "the Book of Mormon will bless your life" crap. Hinckley is challenging everyone to read the Book of Mormon, as if it's a novel, not to "study" the Book of Mormon. I think that is significant to point out!! This missionary has already felt the "promised blessings come into his life." Also, he then points out that "you don't have to finish the Book to begin to see the Lord bless your life." So, let me get this straight; if you read the Book of Mormon, God will bless your life and promises blessings to you. If you don't read it, he won't bless you and you are screwed!! It's just amazing that Hinckley sends this BS out and people immediately do whatever he says. This poor dude feels so guilted into it, that he is reading the Book of Mormon twice at the same time in two different places and then he's gonna read once more when he's done with these two readings. How pathetic!! The truth is, the Mormon hierarchy knows that the Book of Mormon is a fraud, with not one shred of physical evidence to support it and they are running scared, big time!!

"One of my favorite talks was President Faust’s in the first session, where he spoke on light. That is one of my favorite topics to study about. I don’t know why I guess that it’s because it’s something that not many people know too much about, the light of Christ that is. Some of the insights that I have gained, is that the light of Christ is his glory. The more we follow the commandments the brighter the light shines within us. As we develop Christlike attributes we are increasing in glory or light. I have found that glory and light in many cases are interchangeable. Any why that probably made no sense but it is organized a little better in my head, not much though. It is a fun topic to study."

Amazing that a Church that lies to members, whitewashes and lies about their history, steals from the poor, are racists, anti-gay homophobes, support Joseph Smith's polygamous marriages to other mens wives, and children as young as 14, as being from God, can even talk about light from God. If we want to talk about "Christlike attributes", Joseph Smith is probably one of the men that had the fewest. He was basically and evil child molester/rapist/pedophile. He committed adultery on a regular basis and fornicated when he wasn't committing adultery. He, of course, hid his heinous actions from his wife Emma. When he wasn't doing these things, he was busy defrauding other people with his bank fiasco, his money digging, his golden plates, his head along with a seer stone, stuck in a hat, etc. This guy was an evil cult leader plain and simple, that justified his actions in the name of God. He is no different than any of the modern day cult leaders that come to our mind. He was total and complete scum!!

"Anyway I am great, we are excited and we have been able to talk with some great people, they just need to let us come back and teach them."

The problem is, that most people just don't want these guys in their house, period!! Also, I would dare say, that most people these days, know somebody that knows something about the cult called Mormonism. Also, keep in mind, especially here in the USA, after most people are contacted by Mormon missionaries, they probably head straight to the Internet to find out about Mormonism, thus explaining why they don't want to meet again with the Elders.

"Well this week has been crazy just like the last. Last Thursday we went to a huge service project (about 20 missionaries) and helped build a play ground for kids. It was sponsored by Home Depot and there was a lot of news cameras there. We weren’t in our missionary stuff but we had our name tags. I hope that we were able to make a good impression on the people of xxxx."

Now, of course, this was arranged out of the goodness of their hearts and not for publicity sake, right? Sorry to be so cynical, but the fact that he mentions the cameras and name tags, pretty much shows why they were really there. Instead of just helping people from their heart, they hope to get something out of it, namely BAPTISMS and more NUMBERS!! When you are a missionary, with crazy amounts of pressure for numbers and performance from your leaders, you look for any situation that will help you get and achieve those numbers. I remember thinking the same way this guy is thinking. I loved anything that put us in the public eye because I could see all those numbers and baptisms down the road. I tried to convince myself that I was just concerned for their souls but deep down, I knew that I needed these numbers in order to not be ripped apart by every single level of mission leadership.

"We tracted into a member that did not want anyone to find him. He was crazy and had some very warped views on things. As we talked I thought of the scripture in Jacob where he tells how the Jews looked beyond the mark and failed."

Ha Ha.....this one makes me laugh!! I wonder what his crazy and warped views were? Probably the truth about the Mormon Church and their history, right? Now, to this missionary, it sounded "crazy and warped", due to his level of indoctrination that he has received his whole life and especially during his mission. Basically, this guy WAS a member, probably discovered the truth on the Internet or had some bad experience that led him to search and he stopped going to Church. I was also once like this Elder, I refused to even look at or consider anything that challenged my faith or questioned my lifelong beliefs. Now, as I look back, I realize that all of these things that I heard from others, were actually right on the money. I couldn't even conceive or fathom for a second that that stuff could even have a shred of veracity. Amazing how our views, experience and intelligence change through the years.

Sunday we had a meeting at 7:30am with Pres. XXXX and the Stake leaders in The XXXX Stake. It went well. We then had our church meetings until 4:00 pm and then went strait to mission prep where we were ask to role play teaching a 3rd lesson. Then went to dinner then back to our apartment to get ready to go on team ups with the XXXXX Elders in Down town XX.

Sounds like a very busy day, Church, Church, Church, etc. Gives me a headache to even remember these type of days, before, during and after my mission.

Mon we had a good day in the very poor part of XX. It is hard to see the contrast there is between our areas. We have to change our style of teaching completely. In our area we have to be very forward and bold to get people from just slamming the door. It was a good experience. The Elder that I went with is from New York the Bronx. He is a huge black guy. He is so awesome. While we were there he wouldn’t buy anything to eat as we went out for lunch. Earlier he made the comment that he sends his money home to his mom. I learned a lot about that act of selflessness. So what we did was talk Pres. XXXX and the next day they took them a bunch of food.

Notice that he specifically mentions that the they had a "good day in the very poor part of town?" Notice that People in their area, which I presume is a rich area or at least middle class, want to just "slam the door in their faces?" Now, this poor Elder that is starving himself to send money home to his mom, is a travesty!! I'm glad that they actually did something for him but they really need to do something for his mom. Maybe she's not a member, so they won't help her, I don't have a clue. All I can say is that this guy shouldn't have to starve and send excess money to his mom. I'm assuming that the Mormon Church must be paying for his mission. I don't even want to consider the fact that his mom is paying for his mission and in turn, starving and then he's sending money back to her. What a tragedy. The Mormon Church should just be paying for the whole mission anyway of every missionary. It's not like they can't afford it, right?

Now, the following paragraph below is a real mind blower!!

Monday night was little strange. We ended our teamup a little early so we could stop of and see this guy that was in a mental correction facility that the sister had been teaching. The reason why they wanted us to go by is that they thought that he was possessed and thought that a blessing could help. So we went by and were not able to give a blessing because we were in a public place but we talked with him and taught him some things. Elder XXXX was telling him about church and how it is the same everywhere. He got this crazed look on his face and started backing away slowly. Looking at me then my comp and back and forth. He started saying, no no, and then turned to me and asked me if I was righteous. As he started to back away I felt the spirit overcome me and then began to fear. It was crazy but when he asked me that question I started to bear my testimony of Christ and how much I loved him. The man calmed down and we shortly ended the conversation and left.

So, let me get this straight? The Sister missionaries are teaching a guy that is in a mental hospital? Are things getting that desperate out there? Again, this is just another example of who is listening to the Mormon Missionaries and the future of Mormonism. It's crazy that the Sisters think the guy is possessed, so they want the Elders to give him a Priesthood blessing or in reality, "cast out his demons." If the Mormon missionaries approached me now and tried to suck me back into their cult, I would also probably get a crazed look on my face too, then back away slowly while shouting NO, NO. Do you blame the guy?

I'm sure meeting with the missionaries is just making him crazier. Maybe he was fine until he started the Mormon Missionary discussions? Well, the bottom line is that they shouldn't be trying to baptize some dude in a mental hospital. Also, it appears that it was a testimony builder when the Elder bore his testimony of Christ and the guy calmed down. You see, the Mormon Church must be true if that happened, right?

I really think that he was possessed so we called Pres XXXX and asked what we should do. He said to have the bishop go by with some Elders and feel it out. Crazy story.

Yeah, that is a crazy story, how about INSANE? Give me a break!! So, of course, the all powerful, man called directly from God, Mission President, doesn't want anything to do with this situation, so he just tells them to have the Bishop go by with some Elders and FEEL IT OUT? Well, good luck guys on this one!! I'm sure that Bishop and Elders will be very grateful for this opportunity and hopefully they can cast the devil out of this guy so that he can get baptized before the 1st, right. I wonder what his attendance situation will be like? I wonder if they will let him out of the mental institution on Sundays to go to Church? Will they take him the Sacrament at the mental hospital? It doesn't matter, as long as he just pays his tithing, God will bless him for sure!! I'd like to know how the Sisters even found some guy in a "mental correctional facility" to begin with?

Anyway, that's all I have for now!! Hopefully you guys will enjoy this post and my future posts with current Mormon missionary statements straight from the field. This post brings me current with all 3 missionaries, but I will back track and post some of the things that I have posted over on the RFM board a while back from these same missionaries. I archived everything, so I will pull those out of the archive and share them with you as well. These things were pretty mild compared to other things that I've shared.

Actually, if you just want to go to RFM to read some of them, they have them archived under missionary abuse. The page starts with my post regarding "Elder M. Russell Ballard's "new" promise to missionaries!!" You can read everyone else's comments and mine as I wrote several posts within that thread. The entire thread is awesome and includes some great info from "danboyle" and one of my favorites as you all know, "Polygamy Porter", who drops a couple F-bombs while describing the events that led to his exit. LOL!! I think sometimes it is hard not to drop F-bombs when describing the exit from the Mormon cult. Anyway, happy reading and it's time for me to wrap this one up. Take care everyone!! I'll be back later!!

Samuel the Utahnite

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Saturday, October 15, 2005

Here Is A Picture Of How Mormon Prophet, Joseph Smith, Actually "Translated" The Book Of Mormon!! Pretty Funny Eh?!!

I just wanted everyone to see the exact manner in which Joseph Smith "REALLY" translated the Book of Mormon VS. how the Mormon Church continues to lie and deceive the world by portraying Joseph Sitting at a table actually reading and translating the plates. The captions above represent what Joseph must have been thinking every time he stuck his head in the hat with a seer stone and "pretended to receive official ancient America History", known as the Book of Mormon.

I recently did a post on how the Mormon Church continues to sell this picture at Deseret Book, Jesus' bookstore, the one and only "true" bookstore on the planet earth, all the while, knowing that it is a lie. They just continue to perpetuate this fraud along with so many others. It's hard for me to believe that so many people can be so blind. I would hope that anyone that sees this, understands the significance of it, will dig deeper to find out the other things that the Mormon Church continues to lie, cover-up and whitewash in their history.

I Will be back later today to add to this post by analyzing and showing some of the comments that have been made by Dallin H. Oaks and others, regarding Joseph Smith's "translation process." It absolutely proves the fact that they are trying to cover up the ol' "head in the hat" trick and are that are not proud of it. Most importantly, I will describe, in their own words, that they, Apostles and Prophets, in the Mormon Church, don't really understand how Joseph Smith "translated" the Book of Mormon and that they don't want everyday members to know, or worry about his "methods." Just have faith they say!! Give me a break!!

Samuel the Utahnite

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Tuesday, October 11, 2005

Simon Southerton's Opinion Of The Newsweek Article And My Response To Those That Think "We" Are Crazy For Not Being Overly Critical Of Elise!!

Subject: Elise Soukup is not a TBM
Date: Oct 10 20:56
Author: Simon Southerton
Mail Address:

Hi Folks,

Some of you may be interested to read some correspondence I had with Elise Soukup in the weeks before her Newsweek story was published (see bottom of this note).

I was very pleased with her story and in my interaction with her I never suspected for a minute that she was a biased Mormon. After reading the article I am certain she is NOT a TBM in the sense that most of us view TBMs.

I think we have to be realistic here. This year marks the 200th anniversary of Smith's birth. Whether we like it or not he has had a major impact in the American religious scene. It would have looked horrible to Mormons AND non-Mormons if the article was a one-sided hatchet job on the Church. People can sense gross bias very quickly and I don’t think people will see it here. Most of us on RfM are very biased in our opinions. We might be right but we are very biased!

I think Elise did an excellent job of raising many of the major issues the church has struggled with and is still struggling with. I actually sensed that she is on our side believe it or not. She portrayed the church as she would like it to be, a little more honest and open than it currently is. I don’t think she believes Hinckley is a prophet who speaks to God. I am certain that there will be a few Mormon eyes opened by the article. I still have TBM family members who would be quite surprised to read the article, and not just because it mentions me by name.

Here is the brief correspondence I had with Elise as she was fact checking her story.

From Elise Soukup
I'm fact-checking my story about Joseph Smith and I'd like you to review the following sentence for accuracy. Can you tell me if it is factually correct?

"Last year, molecular biologist and former LDS bishop Simon G. Southerton applied available DNA studies to argue that all Native Americans are descendents of Asians, which would preclude the Book of Mormon account of an Israelite family coming to the New World in the sixth century B.C."

Hello Elise,

Thank you for your email. I am more than happy to help with any questions you have.

I have some observations for you to consider arising from the sentence you sent.

Last year in my book Losing a Lost Tribe (Signature Books, 2004) I questioned the widespread Mormon belief that the Amerindians are mostly descended from Israelites. DNA studies have shown these beliefs to be false. Even Mormon apologists now accept that greater than 99.6% of the ancestors of Native Americans were Asians, but the leadership of the church do not officially endorse what the apologists are saying. Some LDS scholars are saying that the prophets have been wrong on this issue for 175 years.

The Book of Mormon isn’t simply a story of an Israelite family coming to the Americas. There were about 60 Israelites in two independent migrations who sailed to the Americas. They multiplied rapidly over several hundred years into civilizations that numbered in the hundreds of thousands if not millions. The Book of Mormon describes how by 400 AD many hundreds of thousands of these Amerisraelites were killing each other in massive battles. The Book of Mormon is largely about these Amerisraelite civilizations.

I have suggested a sentence below. In a brazen act of self promotion I have added the title of my book. But I think it is fair to say that my book is a major focus of the current debate.

"Last year, molecular biologist and former LDS bishop Simon G. Southerton surveyed available DNA studies in his book Losing a Lost Tribe to argue that Native Americans are descendents of Asians, which would preclude the Book of Mormon account of Amerisraelite nations flourishing in the New World between the sixth century B.C. and A.D 421"

Let me know if I can help further if you have any questions.


Final sentence in Newsweek 10/17/05

“Last year, molecular biologist and former LDS bishop Simon G. Southerton applied available DNA studies in his book, "Losing a Lost Tribe," to argue that Native Americans are descendants of Asians, contradicting the Book of Mormon account of an Israelite family's coming to the New World in the sixth century B.C. and eventually flourishing into two distinct civilizations”.

My reaction?
She didn’t have to include the title of my book. I was VERY surprised that she did, even when I was under the impression she was not a Mormon. While the DNA issue is important to me, it is just one of heaps of issues that the church is facing, and she covered a lot of them. I think she went out on a limb here.

She also addressed quite well the major issue I had with the original sentence. This was that it portrayed the Book of Mormon as just a story about a family sailing to America. At the time I actually suspected that her original sentence was written by an apologist, but even a non-Mormon could have written it the way she did. She came back with something that the apologists won’t be entirely happy with.

All in all, I think she did a pretty good job considering she is an active Mormon sitting through hours and hours of mind-numbing relief society and Sunday school lessons that avoid all of the controversial issues she wrote about.


Now, over on the "RFM" board, people pretty much let Simon have it and frankly, that pissed me off. Simon has done so much for so many of us by writing his book, "Losing a Lost Tribe" proving that there is no DNA link between the Native Americans and Israelites but instead that they are related to Asians through extensive DNA studies. I thought the criticism of him for his views of the Newsweek article by Elise Soukup was unwarranted and ridiculous!! The very fact that he even shared personal email interaction that he had with Elise, was admirable to say the least. Simon simply expressed what he felt and got destroyed for it, by a bunch of rabid dogs that only wanted one thing from Elise, a massive, anger ridden, anti-Mormon tell all article about the Mormon Church.

Obviously these people that feel that way,are up in the night and must be smoking something in my opinion. It isn't even a realistic opinion in any way, shape or form!! It's absurd!! Anyway, I was gonna post my response over on the RFM board, but the Simon thread is closed, so I'm just gonna post it here instead. I don't frankly care who I offend or piss off by coming to the defense of Simon and agreeing with him 100%. Simon doesn't need me to defend him nor have I ever personally spoken with him, but I already felt the same way Simon did and had already done my analysis of the article when I saw what Simon had written. Anyway, here were my thoughts regarding Simon's opinions on the Newsweek article and Elise plus my thoughts about those that think we have a screw loose for even liking the article a little bit.


Subject: I agree with you Simon!! Thank you for your common sense and honesty!!Date: Oct 11 19:16Author: Samuel the UtahniteMail Address:

Thanks for saying what I've been saying!! First of all Simon I want to thank you publicly for all of your hard work and for what you've gone through publicly and personally in order to bring us the truth. I had discovered many things and reading about your DNA studies just helped convince me that I had discovered the "real truth." It cemented my decision that the Mormon Church was a fraud.

The way the Mormon Church handled your situation was a disgrace and nothing but a witch hunt by a bunch of Morgbots that didn't want to deal publicly with the real reason they were after you. There is also no doubt that these Morgbots took their marching orders straight from Salt Lake and for them to say differently makes them liars as well. Again, thank you for what you've gone through personally in order to help us to learn and know the truth about the Mormon Church and the Book of Mormon; that they are both complete frauds.

Now, regarding Elise and her article in Newsweek,I think considering all of the circumstances involved and who this woman is and the fact that she is most likely still a temple recommend holder, goes to Church every week, she did a pretty good job. I realize that most people here wanted her to do the "hatchet job" as you called it. They wanted her to tell the world how evil and vile Joseph Smith was and dive into the deepest, darkest Mormon Church recesses and doctrine and uncover every secret that exists in the Mormon past.

They wanted her to discuss the racism, blood atonement, Mountain Meadows Massacre, Joseph's 14 year old wife, how Joseph created the Book of Mormon, etc. How about we be grateful for what was brought up instead of obsessing over what wasn't discussed. Sometimes we have to be grateful for what we do have instead of only worried about what we don't have. In any case, I consider this to be the beginning of opening up some of these forbidden topics, both within and outside the Mormon Church.

Had she done this one sided "hatchet job" that so many people here are still fantasizing about, she would have lost all credibility instantly. "TBMS" wouldn't have read the article as word would have spread that it was an anti-Mormon article by an anti-Mormon Magazine. The Mormon Church would have had to come out publicly and condemn the article and order all members not to read it, as they have done with various things in the past.

At least with this article, now endorsed by the Church publicly, all "TBMS" will feel that it is okay and safe to read it and they will now likely learn of things that they never knew before and never would have known or learned. They may also have questions that they never would have thought of and go searching on the Internet and find this site and many others that will lead them to the "real truth." I know that if I hadn't started my journey to the truth 4 months ago, this article would have put me on this very same path. Considering that I never even really knew that Joseph Smith was a polygamist, this article would have shocked me to the core.

I know that not knowing about Joseph's polygamy is quite common among the membership of the Church, even Bishops. The Mormon Church has done an absolutely phenomenal job in lying and covering up their "true history." In my opinion, this article by Elise, just by bringing up such forbidden subjects, undermines all of the hard work that the Mormon Church has gone to for the last 175 years and they can't be happy about it at all.

They may state publicly that they are happy with it but in reality, they have smoke coming out their ears. They are in a real pickle!! If they were to go after Elise and try to excommunicate her, they would be exposed in Newsweek for the whole world to see. Plus the fact that the Mormon Hierarchy has already basically endorsed the article which also includes an exclusive interview with Hinckley. They are in too deep now to say anything negative without losing all credibility and boxing themselves into a deep corner.

Yeah, that would have been wonderful(the "hatchet job") and something that all of us here would have loved and fully supported but it isn't realistic at all. Just the fact that she openly discussed or even brought up so many taboo subjects in a Worldwide Magazine, things are strictly forbidden to be spoken of in any public forum by Mormon Hierarchy, to me, is a major breakthrough.

This isn't a book written by a former member, this is an article written by a current member in good standing(as far as we know) and a BYU grad, that has been published in a worldwide magazine, that is at every check-stand in every major store in America and across the world.

My first clue that she wasn't a "TBM" in the sense that we speak of here, was when she referred to Joseph Smith as Prophet and polygamist, mesmerizer and rabblerouser, saint and sinner. Then the fact that she could have brought up your Church court and didn't, spoke volumes to me. In fact, she didn't even mention that you were no longer a member or excommunicated, just that you were a "former Bishop." She obviously wanted you to receive your due credit and did a great job of accomplishing that goal. I mean come on, I'll take any credibility that any of us EXMOS can get, especially in a worldwide magazine, by a current member of the Church and former BYU grad.

She very easily could have told the world all about your court, that you were exed, and used the Church's reasons for why, but she didn't. She stuck to the substance of what you discovered and like you said, she certainly didn't need to mention the title of your book. Does this sound like a "TBM" that is hell bent on proving only good and wonderful, glorious things about the Mormon Church? I don't think so, no way!! What are you guys thinking?

She was able to mention enough positive things, sprinkled by the controversial things to keep the TBMS in the reading circle and earn an endorsement by LDS INC. I find it absolutely laughable that one person here actually wondered out loud if you, Simon, would feel the way you do about Elise's article if she hadn't mentioned the title of your book. What a joke!! What they are saying Simon is that you are a sell out and don't have a mind of your own and if you actually like this article and don't have the rabid anger that they feel, for all that was left out, then your an idiot and a sell out. Hell, maybe these same people think that you cut a check to Elise and paid her off too or that Elise paid you to say good things about her? This is complete lunacy!!

I say that they are the idiots for even thinking that you, a man with your credentials, knowledge and fortitude to do what you have done for so many of us, would be a sell out to Elise and Newsweek, simply because she mentioned your book title. You are a realist and expressed that perfectly in your original post. They, on the other hand, are clueless!!

A true "TBM", as defined here in RFM, would never discuss anything controversial in regards to the Mormon Church and it's history, especially the beloved Joseph Smith, whose life they have been celebrating all year long!! This has been apparent with all of the Joseph Smith festivities this past summer, the last conference and it will all culminate this December with a birthday blowout bash. The TBMS that I personally know in my life, won't even discuss these "forbidden" things that Elise mentions in her article, especially anything against Joseph Smith and dismisses them as simply anti-Mormon doctrine.

I honestly don't understand where everyone here is coming from? What do people here in RFM expect? Did they honestly expect a current member/temple recommend holder or someone that they consider to be a "TBM", to write a scathing anti-Mormon article? What planet are you on? How about we be grateful for what she did write and bring up, instead of freaking out and having a massive coronary over what she didn't write. If a die-hard anti-Mormon from here in RFM or elsewhere was asked to write an article about the Mormon Church and it's history, would the "TBMS" freak out because the anti-Mormon didn't write a wonderful article telling the world how great and perfect the Mormon Church is?

I just don't understand the mentality and it makes no sense at all. It's like most people here think that Elise was on the Ex-Mormon Foundations payroll and betrayed us all by writing a sparkling article on the Mormon Church. Give me a break!! She did the best she could with what she had to work with, considering everything that was involved and I think that she needs to be applauded for her efforts. I don't personally know one single "TBM" that would write this type of article about their perfect and beloved church and Prophet Joseph Smith, none!!

Of course no article written in any magazine by anybody, would most likely satisfy most of us here 100%, unless it revealed every single little sin and detail of the retched, sick, twisted history of the Mormon Fraud, right?

In this case, as I mentioned above, I think that we need to be grateful that someone like Elise, had the courage to write a mainstream article, discussing so many things that the Mormon church had been trying to forget about for the last 175 years. I think that after the General Conference we just had, the stupid celebrations for Hinckley and Joseph Smith this past summer, showing the world how perfect, mainstream and spotless the Mormon Church is, this article was the perfect remedy.

Obviously she could have gone much further, given more details, not sucked up to the Church at all, but all in all, I think she did a hell of a job considering everything, especially since she, her Family and friends are still most likely active, temple recommend holding members of the Mormon Church.

Some of you think that she may be on the Church's payroll but ask yourself honestly if this is even plausible. The Church has spent the whole year telling the world what a perfect, wonderful man and saint Joseph Smith was. There is another big birthday bash for Joseph Smith scheduled for December 23rd, with Hinckley at his birthplace and Monson and Faust in the Conference Center.

Does this sound like a Church that would suddenly do a 180 in the middle of celebrating Joseph Smith's life and his impeccable, perfect record? In Hinckley's current interview with Newsweek, he mentioned that he "almost stands in awe" of Joseph Smith. He says that his mind was "clean and pure." So, let me get this straight, this entire year, including the birthday party coming up in December, has been a total ruse?

Now, the Mormon Church has paid of Elise and Newsweek, to talk openly about Joseph Smith's polygamy and his 16 year old maid being his first wife. They paid Elise to refer to their "perfect Joseph" as "Prophet and polygamist, mesmerizer and rabblerouser, saint and sinner?" They paid her off to quote Joseph Smith himself when he said,"If I had not experienced what I have, I could not have believed it myself?"

They also paid her off to expose that many people were shocked when they met Joseph Smith in person because "he lost his temper, he enjoyed power....and on occasion, his ventures failed?" They also paid her off to quote Mark Scherer from the former "RLDS" Church that said, "Either you thought the guy walked on water or you thought the guy was a huge fraud" and then later was quoted regarding Joseph Smith's polygamy, "He committed ministerial abuse" and "He figured out a way to commit adultery and to do it sacramentally." Yeah, that's exactly what the Mormon Hierarchy wanted her to print, they must have paid her double for writing those statements, hell, maybe triple.

They paid her off really well to tell the world that "Joseph Smith was involved in dozens of lawsuits" and that "by the end of his life, he had accrued some 30 wives, massive debt and hundreds of enemies." That statement put Joseph in a great light, didn't it? Every "TBMS" Fantasy!! The Church must have really paid her top dollar to quote Oliver Cowdery when he called Joseph's first plural marriage, "a dirty, nasty, filthy affair." That is something that the Mormon Church wants to shout to the world, isn't it? Didn't Hinckley and Monson share that quote in this past conference? Please!!

They also put her on the Mormon Church payroll when she pointed out that "many of Smith's most committed followers-among them future prophets Young and Woodruff-joined the Church without ever having met him." That basically, they fell in love with the idea and "the sacred", "in a way they'd never known before." In other words, they fell in love with the idea and how they felt which had nothing to do with Joseph Smith since they had never even met him when they joined.

I could go on and on regarding the other things that she wrote about, that many of you obviously consider "proof" that she was on the Church's payroll, but I'll spare all of us. Actually, you can just read my post where I analyze the entire article and that should suffice for those that are interested. My point above, was that it is ridiculous and preposterous, with all that she wrote negatively about Joseph Smith and the Church history in general, for anyone to honestly believe and say, that she was on the Church's payroll.

I have no clue where you guys that really believe that, are coming from. It doesn't make one bit of logical sense whatsoever!! I find it amazing that many here have accused me of being too angry or rabid about my desire to spread the truth of the Mormon Fraud and debunk the Mormon Church and now I'm one of the few voices of reason in regards to this article. That's ironic!! Who did you guys think that Newsweek asked to write the article? Sandra or Jerald Tanner? Give me a break!!

Nobody would have loved a complete tell all article, completely thrashing and trashing the Mormon Church, from Top to bottom, more than I would have. I'm sure Simon wouldn't have argued either but I can't speak for him. It is my opinion, that those out there, which appear to be many, that honestly believe and expected this, are completely blinded by some fog that must be left over either from their "TBM" days or their "rabid anger."

You must be so damn mad that you can't see straight, have no ability to use any logic or reason, or any common sense at all. If the article is anything less that a tell all with 100% accuracy, then it's worthless or even worse, a piece clearly written by the Mormon Hierarchy and given to Elise along with a big fat paycheck, both to her and Newsweek. Oh yeah, and lets not forget, somebody must have paid Simon too, right? After all, there is no way that he could have found anything positive in the way that Elise wrote this article and the information that she shared. Gee, maybe some of you think that Simon is headed for re-baptism or something. I think for the first time, I'm really seeing and experiencing the extreme element that exists in the Ex-Mormon movement and it sure the hell isn't me or Simon!!

I'll say it one more time. I agree completely with Simon,he hit the nail squarely on the head. Elise did a great job considering her situation, most likely still being a true believer along with 95% of her friends and Family. To expect her, under these conditions and working for a worldwide magazine, to come out and do a rabid anti-Mormon article that would live up to the standards of those of us here in RFM, is ridiculous, plain and simple. Those of you that fall into this category, need to clean out your cobwebs, begin to use reason and logic once again, and join those of us in the "real world!!"


For those interested, here are some other links that I posted regarding this article.

Here is my link to my complete analysis on Elise's article:

Here were some other comments I had regarding the article:

Here were my comments on Hinckley’s new Newsweek interview:

Here is another opinion that I expressed in response to Rebel Scholar on RFM who can't understand where I and Simon Southerton are coming from and here's a link to that post and the entire thread:

Samuel the Utahnnite

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